Why is Big Sur so ugly?

[nickdalzell1]

Catalina is just Big Sur sans the icons. Everything else remains the same. Only you get the inconsistent broken auto dark mode as well. It'd be better to go back to Mojave if possible, since you'd get back 32-bit support as well as Dashboard (which Apple removed for no real reason that benefits the consumer.)

 

[CasualFanboy]

I want so badly to go back to Catalina. Big Sur has a terrible UI, where you can't even tell which is the active window. Not to mention the technical issues. ssh-agent is utterly broken. FTDI serial drivers are broken. If you do any microcontroller, arduino or raspberry pi work consider NOT upgrading.

Just do it. The "down"grade is easy, and is really an upgrade for all intents and purposes.

 

[CasualFanboy]

Catalina is just Big Sur sans the icons. Everything else remains the same. Only you get the inconsistent broken auto dark mode as well. It'd be better to go back to Mojave if possible, since you'd get back 32-bit support as well as Dashboard (which Apple removed for no real reason that benefits the consumer.)

I went back to Mojave from Catalina, and have no regrets. I'd still take Catalina (or a beating) over Big Sur though.

 

[robvthof]

I love Mojave for looks and speed. Everything feels snappy.
Big problem is the missing reminders sync to iPhone and cloud.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I find stuff such as iCloud sync and the like work best if all your Apple devices are on the same version overall. Such as iOS 14, WatchOS 7, and Big Sur Mac OS. My iPod touch is broken in that dept since it's stuch forever on iOS 12. Won't even get messages or handoff from my iPhone any longer.

 

[nanoant]

That’s an easy agree. I’ve been saying that for years. How ironic is it that Apple followed much of the simplistic/flat/monochromatic aspects of the Windows interface circa 2013, where windows has proven itself time and time again to be a company incapable of creating a truly intuitive, attractive, and desirable to use interface worthy of keeping around a while and just refining (like Apple pre-2012) since Microsoft would reinvent itself completely every five or so years. Jony (and his team and with Tim’s permission) led Apple away from very refined and successful (and engaging to use) interfaces around 2012-2013 by feeling the need to catch up to Microsoft’s then-current spaghetti on the wall.

And here’s Big Sur.

Hi @Tozovac. I've just read couple of recent pages of this thread and I want to say I agree with all you have written there. I am disappointed so many people seems to like this boring indistinct Big Sur UI advertised as "modern". I am sad looking how you try to provide solid arguments that new UI is bringing no improvements but crippling many things that were working well so far, just for the sake of making the changes and to create an impression that macOS Big Sur now deserves to be called macOS 11.

All you get from Apple supporters like @fisherking or @Bruninho is "me, I love Big Sur" without any arguments or "we should not focus on UI, as we can all adapt to the changes". If all of that is not so important, why Apple is advertising Big Sur UI as major new feature that makes new macOS 11. It makes me sad seeing people excited with whatever stuff Apple serves them just because it is Apple so it must be great. Smaller text surrounded by enormous whitespace, less content on the screen, reduced contrast and less visual clues/differences making various UI elements hard to identify.

If Apple were making cars, they would probably introduce super flat wooden car seats, calling them modern, and many people will be screaming of excitement, despite their back would start to hurt after few minutes of drive.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

Hi @Tozovac. I've just read couple of recent pages of this thread and I want to say I agree with all you have written there. I am disappointed so many people seems to like this boring indistinct Big Sur UI advertised as "modern". I am sad looking how you try to provide solid arguments that new UI is bringing no improvements but crippling many things that were working well so far, just for the sake of making the changes and to create an impression that macOS Big Sur now deserves to be called macOS 11.

All you get from Apple supporters like @fisherking or @Bruninho is "me, I love Big Sur" without any arguments or "we should not focus on UI, as we can all adapt to the changes". If all of that is not so important, why Apple is advertising Big Sur UI as major new feature that makes new macOS 11. It makes me sad seeing people excited with whatever stuff Apple serves them just because it is Apple so it must be great. Smaller text surrounded by enormous whitespace, less content on the screen, reduced contrast and less visual clues/differences making various UI elements hard to identify.

If Apple were making cars, they would probably introduce super flat wooden car seats, calling them modern, and many people will be screaming of excitement, despite their back would start to hurt after few minutes of drive.

And yet there are people like me who likes the "new" refreshed look. It still feels like MacOS to me.

 

[Tozovac]

Hi @TozovacI am sad looking how you try to provide solid arguments that new UI is bringing no improvements but crippling many things that were working well so far, just for the sake of making the changes and to create an impression that macOS Big Sur now deserves to be called macOS 11.

And yet there are people like me who likes the "new" refreshed look. It still feels like MacOS to me.

I often wonder if some users "expect more" from a website or app, and feel no work slowdown at times from "modern" minimalist/streamlined websites and apps, while others (like me) may be highly sensitive to them specifically because all of us might use certain indicators/cues/prompts very differently?

I tend to work quickly and find myself using certain "indicators" to navigate both the tools/controls/interface and the "content" quickly. I find I can almost subconsciously pre-select an icon/command/tool almost before I'm ready to use it by differentiating things via the colors or thickness/intensity of certain icons in an app or website, as well as via aspects of its layout.

But the more those aspects (the overall interface) turn to a minimalist monochromatic presentation where suddenly all the prior colored, highly-differentiated icons in a given app are instead reworked to be all light blue wire-frame icons that look rather similar at quick glance, the more the constant slowdown I feel at times and it's a real drag. For websites and apps and ios/OS's. Same for say app windows/headers and the framing around a given app...the more things are minimized and all made to be low-contrast white throughout to where several "areas" of an app blend together, and/or several stacked app windows are not instantly differentiable from each other, the more its seems it makes my work less efficient than "before." I often wonder if some don't use/rely upon those cues as much and might not feel the big difference that I do from the more minimalist interfaces/websites of "today."

 

[nickdalzell1]

The reason no company or folks listen to people like myself, Tozovac, or the like is because society has deemed our opinions obsolete or not 'in the mainstream'. These days, companies don't exist to satisfy consumer demand, instead, they do something and we just take it and refuse to vote with our wallets. A lot of the complaints in this thread could easily have been solved by not buying the latest iPhone, Mac, or the like, just keep what you got and enjoy! If you still use a 3GS or 4 running iOS 6, DO NOT UPDATE!!!

Me, I switched to devices that have a UI I can stand, or in iOS, the use of my 'purchases' tab in the App Store has been stuck in the year 2012 since my last iPhone before my current 6S was a 4. Most of those apps are still compatible, and never got the iOS 7-ification, and haven't been updated (in many cases, the developer no longer exists or their app got pulled). There are also plenty of skeuo apps in the App Store as well.

I also disabled all updates on all devices (including Android, Windows 10, and so on) and enjoy everything the way I like it, and don't have to worry about needing to re-learn an app because they up and moved things around or hid them behind gestures which make no sense.

I also credit Jony Ive and Co. as getting me off the unsustainable consumerist bandwagon. My tech stops at 2019, but most of the stuff I use is from 2015-prior. As a vegan myself, I never liked the idea of replacing stuff that still works with another device which does the same thing, which wastes resources we have only so much of.

But what I don't grasp is why many folks feel things have to change when there are far more important things like bugs, security, and privacy to concern yourself with. Changing an app UI doesn't accomplish anything. Find a formula which works, and stay with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If more people actually voted with their wallet and stopped with the complacency, and just used what they love, Apple would lose $$$ and would go back in no time. But so long as we remain the complacent, 'we'll just get used to it' types, why would they change? they're not losing money! Companies are supposed to satisfy the customers, or they shop elsewhere. It's not our job to please the company. They exist for our needs, not us for their needs. Not sure when free market economics got reversed but whatever.

 

[CasualFanboy]

The reason no company or folks listen to people like myself, Tozovac, or the like is because society has deemed our opinions obsolete or not 'in the mainstream'. These days, companies don't exist to satisfy consumer demand, instead, they do something and we just take it and refuse to vote with our wallets. A lot of the complaints in this thread could easily have been solved by not buying the latest iPhone, Mac, or the like, just keep what you got and enjoy! If you still use a 3GS or 4 running iOS 6, DO NOT UPDATE!!!

Me, I switched to devices that have a UI I can stand, or in iOS, the use of my 'purchases' tab in the App Store has been stuck in the year 2012 since my last iPhone before my current 6S was a 4. Most of those apps are still compatible, and never got the iOS 7-ification, and haven't been updated (in many cases, the developer no longer exists or their app got pulled). There are also plenty of skeuo apps in the App Store as well.

I also disabled all updates on all devices (including Android, Windows 10, and so on) and enjoy everything the way I like it, and don't have to worry about needing to re-learn an app because they up and moved things around or hid them behind gestures which make no sense.

I also credit Jony Ive and Co. as getting me off the unsustainable consumerist bandwagon. My tech stops at 2019, but most of the stuff I use is from 2015-prior. As a vegan myself, I never liked the idea of replacing stuff that still works with another device which does the same thing, which wastes resources we have only so much of.

But what I don't grasp is why many folks feel things have to change when there are far more important things like bugs, security, and privacy to concern yourself with. Changing an app UI doesn't accomplish anything. Find a formula which works, and stay with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If more people actually voted with their wallet and stopped with the complacency, and just used what they love, Apple would lose $$$ and would go back in no time. But so long as we remain the complacent, 'we'll just get used to it' types, why would they change? they're not losing money! Companies are supposed to satisfy the customers, or they shop elsewhere. It's not our job to please the company. They exist for our needs, not us for their needs. Not sure when free market economics got reversed but whatever.

Spot on.

There's a lot to address in this post. The factors you mentioned go a long way toward explaining why corporations love globalism so much. How many choices do you really have when so many things become oligarchical? How many times have companies like Microsoft simply exterminated their competition by purchasing them?

But all effective messages should be simple and brief, so there's already a well-known phrase that best sums up the Modern Consoomer:

> "Don't ask questions! Just consume product and get excited for next product."

 

[fisherking]

Hi @Tozovac.

All you get from Apple supporters like @fisherking or @Bruninho is "me, I love Big Sur" without any arguments or "we should not focus on UI, as we can all adapt to the changes". If all of that is not so important, why Apple is advertising Big Sur UI as major new feature that makes new macOS 11. It makes me sad seeing people excited with whatever stuff Apple serves them just because it is Apple so it must be great. Smaller text surrounded by enormous whitespace, less content on the screen, reduced contrast and less visual clues/differences making various UI elements hard to identify.

ha... what? quote me if you want to attack me, but don't speak for me.

i don't love or hate big sur, i just use it. i think the UI is always important, and for me, the big sur UI seems fine.

it's of course okay not to like it, for whatever reasons (aesthetic, functional, etc). but no one on this forum can speak for all mac users, and... again, it seems to me that most people just continue to use their macs, do their work, their play... whatever, and are not stressing the minutiae.

stressing (& whining) is what this forum is for.

 

[George Dawes]

I actually like the look of it , I’m just a bit worried about the stability problems

 

[nanoant]

ha... what? quote me if you want to attack me, but don't speak for me.

it's of course okay not to like it, for whatever reasons (aesthetic, functional, etc). but no one on this forum can speak for all mac users, and... again, it seems to me that most people just continue to use their macs, do their work, their play... whatever, and are not stressing the minutiae.

I had no intention to attack anyone, and mentioning your nickname was probably not right. But to keep the discourse factual I hereby quote you here:

if you think of all the 'normal' people who don't live on forums like this, and just do their work (many now on big sur)... no one's crying that they can't tell the finder icon from mail (or whatever). we adapt... just as we've been doing since our first OS.

Is "we should not focus on UI, as we can all adapt to the changes" (what I have used) far off to what you have written?

Moreover, I find claiming that 'normal' people don't live on the forum like this and don't complain about UI but move on with their lives a bit offensive towards these who don't like Big Sur changes and express that here.

And to be honest I don't get why you bother to post here all over again if you think this is not important, we will adapt and we should move forward.

Finally, with all we have written, I think we can at least agree that Apple is pouring nonsense into customers' heads https://www.apple.com/macos/big-sur/ "macOS Big Sur elevates the most advanced desktop operating system in the world to a new level of power and beauty. Experience Mac to the fullest with a refined new design."

 

[CasualFanboy]

Finally, with all we have written, I think we can at least agree that Apple is pouring nonsense into customers' heads https://www.apple.com/macos/big-sur/ "macOS Big Sur elevates the most advanced desktop operating system in the world to a new level of power and beauty. Experience Mac to the fullest with a refined new design."

The level of BS from Apple marketing never ceases to amuse me.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Whenever a changelog says stuff such as 'Radical new design!' 'Reimagined app interface!' or 'Refined design' I avoid it entirely. But of course, I haven't updated any app on my 6S since I bought the darned thing. I did update to iOS 14 but only after doing extensive research (After iOS 7, I stopped trusting Apple) but that was it. It didn't slow my phone down, and didn't break any apps, and it fixed a few bugs. I rarely though if ever make exceptions for updates.

There's always going to be someone who spreads the FUD of "older software will always be unsecure! don't use it or you'll lose your identity!" but that's it, FUD. If you don't browse pirate sites, or porn, or use sketchy apps, you have nothing to worry about. The PowerPC area still has active development (TenFourFox, etc) and Windows XP and even 98 SE have compatibility for internet browsing (The Old Net, Browservice, even a modern web browser!)

If everyone bought into the myth that using older software will get you hacked (seriously, how dumb must one be as a hacker to target the literal 5% of devices out there! Especially if you can't even show those 'your PC has been locked by Microsoft' popups) then sites such as Theoldnet.com, oldapps.com, oldversion.com and the like wouldn't be there for the few of us who don't like modern apps.

Older software isn't useless either. Many of them still function. When I used my HTC Thunderbolt earlier this year (yea, still working despite not officially being VoLTE compatible!) there was an app I had backed up to my NAS (eRadar HD) from the year 2009! The old phone is old enough to support it still, and I actually opened it to see the status of a severe storm approaching our area, and it still worked. Developer isn't even around but app still works. The Kindle app still works on my Galaxy Tab 2 7.0 from 2012, and the browser on my Galaxy Note 10.1 (2012) still works with YouTube.

Hey, if you like modern apps, go right ahead. Another odd thing I read online and experience in public sometimes (the odd random person who dares catch me using my Thunderbolt!) is the accusation of 'you luddites are holding us all back! embrace the future!' It was even uttered at least once in this very thread a few pages back! Seriously, how on earth will me using a phone from 2011 hold back technological advancement?! People don't see me using a 10-year-old phone and suddenly stop buying things (although the planet would be all the better for it!). Me using old stuff won't change progress. I will embrace what I want, use what I want, thank you very much!

Then there are the few funny yet ironic instances where someone sees one of my old phones in use, isn't really up on tech or what's new and the like, and catches me using my Galaxy S-Relay phone (sliding keyboard and all!) and says "Hey where did you get that?! It's cool! I never knew they made phones with keyboards except BlackBerry!" sometimes they make a mention of how they always hated on-screen keyboards, asking where they can buy a slider, and I have to break it to them that sliders, much like other unique phones, along with features you paid more for, such as headphone jacks, IR blasters, home buttons, etc haven't been made in awhile or will show signs of coming back. There's a whole market out there being completely ignored because companies can't admit that what they do now or call an 'upgrade' is a mistake. There's nothing wrong with variety.

Seriously, though, where's the upgrade from a 6S to a 12 Pro? No headphone jack, no Touch ID, no home button, no 3D touch. Seriously why would I pay far more ($1000+) for less than I have now?! Does that make sense to anyone?

 

[Jamalien]

Seriously, though, where's the upgrade from a 6S to a 12 Pro? No headphone jack, no Touch ID, no home button, no 3D touch. Seriously why would I pay far more ($1000+) for less than I have now?! Does that make sense to anyone?

larger brighter sharper OLED, 120Hz touch sensitivity, vastly superior cameras, stereo and much clearer audio pickup, much faster modems, much faster cpu, much faster GPU, 4k 60 with stabilsation and HDR vs 4k 30 with pitiful dynamic range, vastly better battery life (6s was the worst), much better speakers, much better taptics, Face ID, water resistance ratings, etc.

Agree on the 3D touch thing though - that was awesome tech that only didn't catch on because they sucked at software utilisation

 

[saudor]

larger brighter sharper OLED, 120Hz touch sensitivity, vastly superior cameras, stereo and much clearer audio pickup, much faster modems, much faster cpu, much faster GPU, 4k 60 with stabilsation and HDR vs 4k 30 with pitiful dynamic range, vastly better battery life (6s was the worst), much better speakers, much better taptics, Face ID, water resistance ratings, etc.

Agree on the 3D touch thing though - that was awesome tech that only didn't catch on because they sucked at software utilisation

I don’t know about everyone else but I rather have all of that HDR, 4K, amazing sound, etc on my TV/entertainment system. At the end of the day, the phone is just a phone. No matter how amazing it is, It’s not even comparable to a true entertainment system with real surround sound.

If the phone does what I need it to do fine, I personally don’t see the point of upgrading. Even 3G speeds is enough for most of my tasks

 

[Tozovac]

Whenever a changelog says stuff such as 'Radical new design!' 'Reimagined app interface!' or 'Refined design' I avoid it entirely.

To think those terms were once only in the realm of Microsoft marketing’s new spaghetti on the wall every few years. The good old days.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I don’t know about everyone else but I rather have all of that HDR, 4K, amazing sound, etc on my TV/entertainment system. At the end of the day, the phone is just a phone. No matter how amazing it is, It’s not even comparable to a true entertainment system with real surround sound.

If the phone does what I need it to do fine, I personally don’t see the point of upgrading. Even 3G speeds is enough for most of my tasks

This and also can anyone really see 120Hz? I think the only real noticeable benefit is when recording a phone display it no longer flickers like a CRT (I found out how bad it was when filming my Galaxy S5--but the phone when I looked at it normally didn't flicker a lick!)

Also CPU/RAM/GPU/etc. I can do everything I do with my 6S with an HTC Thunderbolt from 2011. But of course, my needs are simple. I do prefer smaller screens, no OLED (PWM gives me headaches), home buttons, I still use wired headphones when I forget to charge my AirPods case or when it dies randomly, and my battery lasts over a day still. My Galaxy S5 battery wouldn't make it to lunch at work.

 

[nickdalzell1]

To think those terms were once only in the realm of Microsoft marketing’s new spaghetti on the wall every few years. The good old days.

It's worse today--a lot of app "updates" today don't say a thing other than "Bug fixes and security improvements" or "Information not provided by developer".

Either one of those can cover up an unnecessary and clearly not demanded by any customer 'UI redesign'. At least, on Android you can 'uninstall updates' to a specific app. With Apple, you're stuck with it!

I still can't get over how business works these days or how a company stays in business:

Today:

Customer:"Hey Apple, your new software "update" now makes it where it takes three steps to do what once took one, and it's blinding white, and downright ugly"

Apple: "Get used to it!"

Company thrives. But if that had been the attitude of ANY company selling products in 1963 or any year prior to 2000, it would quickly put them out of business as customers wouldn't buy from a company that does customer-hostile things then acts like a dick when they get feedback that's negative. Apple somehow gets away with literally brushing their customers off and refuses to admit they made a mistake. Remember the huge outlash at iOS 7? Why didn't Apple backturn then to iOS 6? Can't admit you messed up and go back to what worked now, can you? Also, no customer asked for flat design! Ever heard of "Supply and Demand?!"

At least in '63 a company didn't needlessly change anything about a product they sold until sufficient feedback from customers inspired that change. Back then, companies existed to cater to consumer demand and wanted to make as many customers satisfied. Even the tagline, "100% customer satisfaction guaranteed!" was strived for. Today, quite the opposite happens and I can't fathom why. Most of what Apple does today (and Google, Microsoft, et al, don't forget about them!) would have put them under a few decades ago.

 

[fisherking]

fisherking said:
ha... what? quote me if you want to attack me, but don't speak for me.

it's of course okay not to like it, for whatever reasons (aesthetic, functional, etc). but no one on this forum can speak for all mac users, and... again, it seems to me that most people just continue to use their macs, do their work, their play... whatever, and are not stressing the minutiae.

I had no intention to attack anyone, and mentioning your nickname was probably not right. But to keep the discourse factual I hereby quote you here:

fisherking said:
if you think of all the 'normal' people who don't live on forums like this, and just do their work (many now on big sur)... no one's crying that they can't tell the finder icon from mail (or whatever). we adapt... just as we've been doing since our first OS.

Is "we should not focus on UI, as we can all adapt to the changes" (what I have used) far off to what you have written?

Moreover, I find claiming that 'normal' people don't live on the forum like this and don't complain about UI but move on with their lives a bit offensive towards these who don't like Big Sur changes and express that here.

And to be honest I don't get why you bother to post here all over again if you think this is not important, we will adapt and we should move forward.

Finally, with all we have written, I think we can at least agree that Apple is pouring nonsense into customers' heads https://www.apple.com/macos/big-sur/ "macOS Big Sur elevates the most advanced desktop operating system in the world to a new level of power and beauty. Experience Mac to the fullest with a refined new design."

easy there. love how you apologize for making it personal, then dig in deeper.

i never said we shouldn't focus on the UI, i clearly implied that the UI is fine for most people... a very different thing.

i stand by my meaning of 'normal' people; ie people who don't spend an unusual amount of time on forums like this complaining that things aren't as they think they should be (or, in my case, that things are pretty great). by my own definition, i fit the 'not normal' group. i accept my place in that group!

and apple can, like any other company, hype their work, i don't agree that we can 'at least agree that Apple is pouring nonsense into customers' heads'. it seems like the usual marketing hype, not nonsense; it doesn't offend me, or confuse me... just as the big sur UI doesn't offend or confuse me.

and once again, i'm out. having a contrary point-of-view on a thread that only wants love & sympathy makes this a pointless place to be.

 

[Jamalien]

I don’t know about everyone else but I rather have all of that HDR, 4K, amazing sound, etc on my TV/entertainment system. At the end of the day, the phone is just a phone. No matter how amazing it is, It’s not even comparable to a true entertainment system with real surround sound.

If the phone does what I need it to do fine, I personally don’t see the point of upgrading. Even 3G speeds is enough for most of my tasks

? That’s a rubbish argument. Ok you don’t care about the ‘hdr and amazing sound’. What about all the other things! Vastly better battery endurance (very important), vastly more powerful CPU for general UI and web browsing speed, vastly better cameras for capturing your memories, water resistance etc. - all very important things for the average user!

Watching you people go through weird mental gymnastics to convince yourselves that there haven’t been huge average-user benefiting advancements since the 6s is hilarious.

Sure there have been some regressions for certain people like touch id and headphone jacks, but nicks trying to argue that for the average person, the 6s is superior to the 12…what?….

 

[nanoant]

and once again, i'm out. having a contrary point-of-view on a thread that only wants love & sympathy makes this a pointless place to be.

This thread as any decent discussion wants arguments. There are solid arguments against Big Sur provided here, but you write that they are either irrelevant, because UI is not important for most/normal users, or that you keep repeating that you like Big Sur without providing any argument what this UI you like improved for you. Then when I try to point that out, you take it as personal attack.

Just to make it straight, I am not against everything what Apple does. I still believe macOS is great OS. There are many small and nice technological advancements in Big Sur under the hood. Also I am positive about M1 and ARM transition, which will definitely stimulate healthy competition on CPU market. However I am against making UI changes a priority, while there any many other things that are missing or could be improved in macOS. E.g. Photos app that were to replace Aperture, but it never received features that Aperture had in the first place. Managing large photo library in Photos app is a mess, Aperture was much much better in this respect, but Apple pulled the plug offering crippled Photos. Same for CUDA, Apple pulled the plug because of some stupid corporate rancor / revenge on NVIDIA that in the end harms Apple's consumers. How stupid is that?

Watching you people go through weird mental gymnastics to convince yourselves that there haven’t been huge average-user benefiting advancements since the 6s is hilarious.

So some of the people here on the extreme side (according to what is normal in the modern capitalistic society) using 5 year old phone, saying that the new device's generation features are not important to them and they are completely okay with the old feature set, and you find it hilarious. Do you also find people driving older cars hilarious?

I am not that extreme though. I upgraded to iPhone XR 2 years ago from iPhone 6. And my main motivation was eSIM that lets me use two numbers I have with single iPhone. There are other things I appreciate too - XR being splash proof, better camera, face ID, larger internal memory. And when I upgraded I have my iPhone 6 to someone in my family, and this person was really happy with my old iPhone 6.

 

[saudor]

? That’s a rubbish argument. Ok you don’t care about the ‘hdr and amazing sound’. What about all the other things! Vastly better battery endurance (very important), vastly more powerful CPU for general UI and web browsing speed, vastly better cameras for capturing your memories, water resistance etc. - all very important things for the average user!

Watching you people go through weird mental gymnastics to convince yourselves that there haven’t been huge average-user benefiting advancements since the 6s is hilarious....

Notice the keyword which you apparently missed in your rage of "mental gymnastics" to convince everyone else that the average user always needs the latest and greatest: If the phone does what I need it to do fine, I personally don’t see the point of upgrading. This goes for everyone else and if they're ok with the 6S, that's great for them. Less crap that goes into the landfills.

If i want to experience glorious 4K HDR with top notch sound, I got my TV. If I'm serious about taking excellent quality photos, i sure as hell wont be using my phone - even if it's the 12 Pro Pro MAX plus. But for instagram et al, you lose most of the benefits since they murder the quality on upload.

my 8+ battery lasts 2-3 days. Do i really need it to last 3-4 days? It loads pages in <1-2 seconds depending on the page. Even my Air2 (even slower than the 6s!) is good enough. Yes that one does hesitate from time to time but if speed matters, i would likely be doing something that wouldn't be effective on such a small screen. Water resistance is useless for me since I never take it places where it could get wet but if someone finds this useful, now there's a reason to consider upgrading

 

[Jamalien]

So some of the people here on the extreme side (according to what is normal in the modern capitalistic society) using 5 year old phone, saying that the new device's generation features are not important to them and they are completely okay with the old feature set, and you find it hilarious. Do you also find people driving older cars hilarious?

Notice the keyword which you apparently missed in your rage of "mental gymnastics" to convince everyone else that the average user always needs the latest and greatest: If the phone does what I need it to do fine, I personally don’t see the point of upgrading. This goes for everyone else and if they're ok with the 6S, that's great for them. Less crap that goes into the landfills.

If i want to experience glorious 4K HDR with top notch sound, I got my TV. If I'm serious about taking excellent quality photos, i sure as hell wont be using my phone - even if it's the 12 Pro Pro MAX plus. But for instagram et al, you lose most of the benefits since they murder the quality on upload.

my 8+ battery lasts 2-3 days. Do i really need it to last 3-4 days? It loads pages in <1-2 seconds depending on the page. Even my Air2 (even slower than the 6s!) is good enough. Yes that one does hesitate from time to time but if speed matters, i would likely be doing something that wouldn't be effective on such a small screen. Water resistance is useless for me since I never take it places where it could get wet but if someone finds this useful, now there's a reason to consider upgrading

Who are you ppl arguing with lol? I agree with you...

Never said anyone needs the latest and greatest. I am also a proponent of keeping things for as long as I can

But you and others are proclaiming that nothing meaningful has improved from the 6s to current, which is retarded...and objectively false