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Will Apple continue to optimize OS 3.x for non-3GS iPhones?
- Thread starter TheSpaz
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Well, I seriously doubt they're going to bother fixing it for the 3G. Don't you think? Otherwise they'd have optimized it for the 3G in the first place. Right now all they probably care about is the 3GS and the next model.
But, remember, they still sell the iPhone 3G. It would be kind of unfair not to smooth it out.
I have a feeling that they'll keep tweaking it for each software release until it works correctly. They can't just forget about the iPhone 3G just because they have the 3GS now.
Remember... software updates often have the tags "Stability, Performance and Bug Fixes"
Can't I at least be optimistic about it and trick myself into thinking they'll fix it and make it as smooth as 2.2.1?
I wouldn't put it past apple to not do that in hopes people will shell out for a new 3GS to make things snappier.
Okay, that is a good visual explanation and helps a lot with us trying to understand what you are seeing. I am still pretty darn sure I don't have that issue on my 3G running 3.0, or if I do, it is rare enough that I don't pay it much mind, but I will try to reproduce and pay attention to this specific animation and report back here (I switched to my 3GS over the weekend, so 3G is not on me at the moment).
BTW, since Bat Commander (actually was wondering if that was you, TheSpaz, based on some of the things said in the pre-edited version of the post) asked earlier about my setup, I'll bite, and make it as detailed as possible (I don't know that this will actually help anyone, but I don't suppose it can hurt either):
I have 3.0 build 7A341 running on an iPhone 3G 8GB. It is jailbroken, but I try to keep a sharp eye on my use of JB software and what they are all doing at any given time (no extraneous daemons running in the background that I don't know about, etc.), and have eliminated certain things from my list of JB software based on past bad experiences. This means NO WINTERBOARD; in my experience, enabling Winterboard themes is a good way to slow down the phone and cause some of the animation stutters that it sounded like TheSpaz was talking about before (although I realize that he doesn't use Winterboard himself), ESPECIALLY if you theme the keyboard (keyboard gets HELLA laggy if it has a Winterboard theme applied to it, or at least it did in 2.x; haven't bothered to try in 3.0 yet).
I have Backgrounder for 3.0 and SBSettings installed. SSH is always enabled. Although I use Backgrounder extensively, I always quit out apps when I am not actively using them. This INCLUDES Apple's own apps which multitask natively; I religiously close out Safari or Mail, for example, when I am not using them, by using the Processes toggle for SBSettings. This is to keep as much available RAM free as possible as well as to reduce possible CPU usage (I don't trust Apple's software any more than I would trust anybody else's in the background; in fact, that Apple surreptitiously allows for their own apps to run in the background but won't allow third-party apps to do so gives me all the more reason to not trust them.)
By extension, I don't like it when apps launch themselves and start doing crap without my knowledge, so e-mail push/fetch is completely turned off; I check e-mail when I have time and don't need to know the exact second that a new e-mail arrives. Once I'm done, I force-quit Mail.app.
I also only enable other features in the OS when I need to use them, so Location services are off unless I am going to run a location-aware app, and Bluetooth is off unless I'm going to pair something to the phone, etc. Of course, most people do this anyway in an effort to conserve battery life.
Other than that, don't know what to tell you. Perhaps my diligent policing over the actively-running software on my phone contributes in some way to my better performance (or perception thereof). For me, though, it's all just force of habit, so it's not like I am actively thinking about it all the time. It just happens.
-- Nathan
BTW, since Bat Commander (actually was wondering if that was you, TheSpaz, based on some of the things said in the pre-edited version of the post) asked earlier about my setup, I'll bite, and make it as detailed as possible (I don't know that this will actually help anyone, but I don't suppose it can hurt either):
I have 3.0 build 7A341 running on an iPhone 3G 8GB. It is jailbroken, but I try to keep a sharp eye on my use of JB software and what they are all doing at any given time (no extraneous daemons running in the background that I don't know about, etc.), and have eliminated certain things from my list of JB software based on past bad experiences. This means NO WINTERBOARD; in my experience, enabling Winterboard themes is a good way to slow down the phone and cause some of the animation stutters that it sounded like TheSpaz was talking about before (although I realize that he doesn't use Winterboard himself), ESPECIALLY if you theme the keyboard (keyboard gets HELLA laggy if it has a Winterboard theme applied to it, or at least it did in 2.x; haven't bothered to try in 3.0 yet).
I have Backgrounder for 3.0 and SBSettings installed. SSH is always enabled. Although I use Backgrounder extensively, I always quit out apps when I am not actively using them. This INCLUDES Apple's own apps which multitask natively; I religiously close out Safari or Mail, for example, when I am not using them, by using the Processes toggle for SBSettings. This is to keep as much available RAM free as possible as well as to reduce possible CPU usage (I don't trust Apple's software any more than I would trust anybody else's in the background; in fact, that Apple surreptitiously allows for their own apps to run in the background but won't allow third-party apps to do so gives me all the more reason to not trust them.)
By extension, I don't like it when apps launch themselves and start doing crap without my knowledge, so e-mail push/fetch is completely turned off; I check e-mail when I have time and don't need to know the exact second that a new e-mail arrives. Once I'm done, I force-quit Mail.app.
I also only enable other features in the OS when I need to use them, so Location services are off unless I am going to run a location-aware app, and Bluetooth is off unless I'm going to pair something to the phone, etc. Of course, most people do this anyway in an effort to conserve battery life.
Other than that, don't know what to tell you. Perhaps my diligent policing over the actively-running software on my phone contributes in some way to my better performance (or perception thereof). For me, though, it's all just force of habit, so it's not like I am actively thinking about it all the time. It just happens.
-- Nathan
I also forgot to mention that now that I am completely switched over to 3GS, my 3G is free for experimentation, which means I can downgrade it to 2.2.1 without leaving myself without a phone and verify for myself that 3.0 is as smooth as I think it is.
-- Nathan
-- Nathan
I see where you're coming from. I didn't realize that you're closing every background Apple app. I usually have iPod open in the background (from playing music in my car), my Mail.app is always open (because I have Push MobileMe) and I always close all the pages in Safari before closing it. Perhaps I'll try an experiment and try and turn Push email off with manual fetching and force quit iPod and see what kind of results I get. Thank you for the informative post. To be fair, I don't think you mentioned that you were keeping a close eye on memory earlier in the thread.
No, you paid $99 per year for developer tools. Just because you use Apple's "exclusive" bug tool (which you didn't develop) to report bugs doesn't mean you develop software. You can't write code.
To be fair, I don't think you mentioned that you were keeping a close eye on memory earlier in the thread.
I assumed that it would be assumed by my statements of me comparing free available RAM in 2.2.1 vs. free available RAM in 3.0 after a fresh reboot, and the fact that I was trying to see how many things I could run simultaneously in 2.2.1 vs. 3.0 and how much RAM they were using and so on and so forth.
Guess that's what I get for assuming, heh.Oh yeah, thanks for the reminder about iPod.app. I keep that one closed, too, if I'm not playing music. Annoys the heck out of me whenever that app decides to open all on its own. Has anybody else noticed that sometimes it just launches itself in the background when it hasn't previously been running and you know for sure you didn't open it accidentially yourself?
-- Nathan
Okay... I just did some tests. I quit everything I could. I force-quit Mail and set my email to manual and I force quit iPod and Safari.
For some reason I still get the lag. I'm not jailbroken. What else do you suggest I do? I notice it mostly in Notes, Safari (when there's a page loaded), and Voice Memos.
Thank you for trying to be helpful Nathan, I appreciate your more detailed response. I'm sorry for calling you a liar, but you were holding back details that I could have used a long time ago. We cool still?
For some reason I still get the lag. I'm not jailbroken. What else do you suggest I do? I notice it mostly in Notes, Safari (when there's a page loaded), and Voice Memos.
Thank you for trying to be helpful Nathan, I appreciate your more detailed response. I'm sorry for calling you a liar, but you were holding back details that I could have used a long time ago. We cool still?
Hmm. Don't know, to be honest. Like I said, now that my 3G is free for experimentation, I plan to try 2.2.1 and 3.0 on it, both times set up as new phones, and see if I'm full of hot air or not. I would just stand by for my results, I guess.
Yeah, we coo'.
-- Nathan
Correct. I paid $99 for the ability to report bugs found in beta software to Apple so that they can fix them before they get to the general public...
...annnnnnnnd you're welcome. Seriously dude. Can you give it a rest on the whole "you don't count as a developer" thing? Come on, find a different thread if you're not going to help anyone. Thanks.
Hmm. Don't know, to be honest. Like I said, now that my 3G is free for experimentation, I plan to try 2.2.1 and 3.0 on it, both times set up as new phones, and see if I'm full of hot air or not. I would just stand by for my results, I guess.
Yeah, we coo'.
-- Nathan
Do you have Twitterrific, Sketches or iStat? Those particular apps NEVER show the flying icon animations for me, They look like the second animation I posted. Just goes black, then opens.
Edit: You know what else I noticed about 2.2.1 compared to 3.0? In 2.2.1, the icon would stay dim for a longer amount of time after you tap it... this to me seems like maybe 2.2.1 spends a split second longer caching to the memory so that the animation doesn't lag. Just a guess. It seems like in 3.0, the app immediately launches as soon as you tap it... it doesn't have as much of a hesitation. I'd actually prefer to wait a nano-second longer and have a better visual instead of stuttering, but faster app launch time.
I just confirmed it. 2.2.1 specifically waits for the iPhone to not be busy before it launches the app. If you open Safari with no pages loaded, it launches as soon as you tap it, but if Safari has a page open, the icon will dim for a little longer to prepare for opening the more complicated animation. Does that make sense?
You know what I was thinking today?
As Apple optimizes the 3GS to go faster and faster, the 3G will probably also benefit from those performance enhancements too. As Apple fixes various memory leaks and smooths out the OS, the 3G will also benefit.
I don't think Apple is going to be like "What you get in 3.0 is as good as it's ever going to get"... that's not how Apple usually is. They usually try to support older hardware and optimize the software so that there's a good experience for a wide range of it's customers... not just customers with the newest gear.
As Apple optimizes the 3GS to go faster and faster, the 3G will probably also benefit from those performance enhancements too. As Apple fixes various memory leaks and smooths out the OS, the 3G will also benefit.
I don't think Apple is going to be like "What you get in 3.0 is as good as it's ever going to get"... that's not how Apple usually is. They usually try to support older hardware and optimize the software so that there's a good experience for a wide range of it's customers... not just customers with the newest gear.
Doubtful - try running Leopard on a G4 867MHz PowerBook... Old hardware loses in the end.
i haven't read this whole thread, so i'm probably repeating what someone else has said...
i think they'll keep working on the basis that people are using the last generation of the phone. so at the moment they'll keep the 3g ok, next year they will keep the 3gs ok...
the reason? the people on forums like this that upgrade to the latest and greatest just because it is the latest and greatest are a minority. a lot of people still have the iphone 3g and will keep the iphone 3g until their contract expires either at xmas or in june '10 if they are on a 24month contract (and that's assuming they got the phone at release). they can't just cut those people out of the picture after a year of a minimum 18month contract, and to be honest... what about the people who only got the 3g this year, say in march or april or something? some of those wont be up for upgrading their phone until 2011.
anyway, 3.0.1 seems to prove it. it's made mine (and a few others based on the "whats new in 3.0.1" thread, even though it was only supposed to be a sms bug fix) run a lot smoother. pretty much how it was before 3.0.
they still want the 3g to run as fast and smooth as possible.
i think they'll keep working on the basis that people are using the last generation of the phone. so at the moment they'll keep the 3g ok, next year they will keep the 3gs ok...
the reason? the people on forums like this that upgrade to the latest and greatest just because it is the latest and greatest are a minority. a lot of people still have the iphone 3g and will keep the iphone 3g until their contract expires either at xmas or in june '10 if they are on a 24month contract (and that's assuming they got the phone at release). they can't just cut those people out of the picture after a year of a minimum 18month contract, and to be honest... what about the people who only got the 3g this year, say in march or april or something? some of those wont be up for upgrading their phone until 2011.
anyway, 3.0.1 seems to prove it. it's made mine (and a few others based on the "whats new in 3.0.1" thread, even though it was only supposed to be a sms bug fix) run a lot smoother. pretty much how it was before 3.0.
they still want the 3g to run as fast and smooth as possible.
That's not even close to what we're dealing with.
The PowerBook G4 has a completely different processor.
It's like 5 years old.
Apple doesn't sell it as brand new still.
The iPhone 3G has the same type of single-core ARM processor as the 3GS.
It's only 1 year old.
Apple still sells it as brand new.
3.0 isn't THAT different from 2.2.1 to make it not have the ability to run well on an iPhone 3G.
Uh, I was joking when I said the 3.0.1 made my 3G run "smooth as butter." It's just an SMS hack patch. If anything, you're only running smoother, because you restored from a backup. They didn't do anything to make it run better on the 3G. Hopefully, that'll come with the 3.1 release, but I haven't heard anything yet to say that's true (actually I've heard the opposite on some betas).
i wasn't referring to your smooth as butter post, hadn't even seen it.
3.0 instantly made flicking pages and opening mail and messages slower and more jerky. 3.0.1 instantly undid that effect. that's how it worked for me and others are saying the same thing in that thread.
To tell you the truth....
When I first upgraded to 3.0 from 2.2.1, I just upgraded. Everything was laggy like you were saying. It was really bad. Then I restored and this time I didn't restore to a backup and it was much better. Perhaps Apple cleaned something up in 3.0.1 to fix this issue. So perhaps you just never started fresh on 3.0, thus you thought 3.0.1 fixed a lot of the lag... which in some ways, it did, but what I'm saying is... you could have had a much smoother experience by doing a clean install of 3.0 and not restoring from backup.
maybe so. my point, ultimately, is that my iphone "experience" is what i would expect from the 3g. everything runs smoothly, animations don't jerk etc etc. the only difference will be boot-up and loading times (as well as some of the games that detect the 3gs hardware, like that racing game that puts more cars on the track) but that is to be expected from a faster phone. i don't see apple ignoring the 3g's performance and allowing it to slow down until 4.0.
nope, but i can see mine live on my 3g, and it runs smoothly. even the lag-fest know as Worms runs better (not perfect, but better).
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