Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[FSMBP]

So Tim said at the end there's some Intel-based Macs still in the pipeline that are going to be released. Why would they release Intel-based Macs at the same time ARM Macs will start to be sold (Q3/Q4 2020)?

If they release the updated iMac with Intel internals, isn't it buying a dead man walking computer with a 2 year death sentence?

When Apple announced the Intel transition in June 2005, they released a PowerPC iMac 4 months later in October 2005...Then they released an Intel iMac several months later.

So, it is very possible they could release another Intel iMac soon.

I imagine Apple's ARM product line transition as follows (based on them using low-end ARM chips first as they have them designed):

Q4 2020: MacBook Air, Mac Mini
Q1 2021: MacBook Pros, iMac
Q2 2021: iMac Pro
Q2 2022: Mac Pro

 

[Manfredi]

When Apple announced the Intel transition in June 2005, they released a PowerPC iMac 4 months later in October 2005...Then they released an Intel iMac several months later.

So, it is very possible they could release another Intel iMac soon.

I imagine Apple's ARM product line transition as follows (based on them using low-end ARM chips first as they have them designed):

Q4 2020: MacBook Air, Mac Mini
Q1 2021: MacBook Pros, iMac
Q2 2021: iMac Pro
Q2 2022: Mac Pro

sadly i think you're right....
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The new Kuo article doesnt actually state that the 24" iMac is ARM, however this looks very much like the 24" Arm iMac that Kuo said, on Sunday, would follow "the refresh of existing Intel ‌iMac‌ in 3Q20". This could possibly mean a 24" Arm iMac by October/ November.

If Kuo is correct, I'll be surprised if Apple refresh the 21.5 intel iMac in Q3 only to then release a 24" ARM iMac in Q4, which would surely eat up most of the 21.5" intel's iMac's sales?

Im wondering if Apple will just release a refreshed/redesigned? 27" intel iMac in Q3. When Tim Cook said Apple had intel iMacs in the pipeline, he may have been referring to the 27" iMac and the iMac Pro (a mini-LED iMac Pro was rumoured by Kuo around March/April to be released by the end of the year).

if they introduce/update iMac Intel on 3Q20 they will never introduce a 24inch iMac ARM after 2 months...

we could have to wait till 2021

 

[pldelisle]

What I don't understand is that the iMac is out of stock everywhere, and won't be shipped anytime soon. In canada, it's by the end of July, more than a month from now. I've never seen this before.

 

[Manfredi]

What I don't understand is that the iMac is out of stock everywhere, and won't be shipped anytime soon. In canada, it's by the end of July, more than a month from now. I've never seen this before.

that's why they will do the last update of iMac with Intel soon and we will see an iMac ARM on 2021 or 2022...

just watch this:

macOS Sequoia

macOS Sequoia brings effortless window tiling, web browsing with fewer distractions, new iPhone Mirroring, and support for Apple Intelligence.

www.apple.com

they have introduced new MacOS with many screen of iMacs... means that they will do a spec bumps and mantain the same design... (my opinion)

 

[JPNMac]

that's why they will do the last update of iMac with Intel soon and we will see an iMac ARM on 2021 or 2022...

just watch this:

macOS Sequoia

macOS Sequoia brings effortless window tiling, web browsing with fewer distractions, new iPhone Mirroring, and support for Apple Intelligence.

www.apple.com

they have introduced new MacOS with many screen of iMacs... means that they will do a spec bumps and mantain the same design... (my opinion)

Are there rumors for a 32" iMac?

 

[Jamacfer]

sadly i think you're right....
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if they introduce/update iMac Intel on 3Q20 they will never introduce a 24inch iMac ARM after 2 months...

we could have to wait till 2021

Maybe they refresh the Intel iMacs right now (July?) and will introduce a new iconic iMac ARM 24” at the end of the year.

 

[Jamacfer]

that's why they will do the last update of iMac with Intel soon and we will see an iMac ARM on 2021 or 2022...

just watch this:

macOS Sequoia

macOS Sequoia brings effortless window tiling, web browsing with fewer distractions, new iPhone Mirroring, and support for Apple Intelligence.

www.apple.com

they have introduced new MacOS with many screen of iMacs... means that they will do a spec bumps and mantain the same design... (my opinion)

Yes, new Intel iMacs right now and a 24” iMac ARM late 2020 or early 2021.

 

[pldelisle]

Maybe, but then I have big, big doubts about a redesign. Most likely a spec bump, because as we already said, thermals and internals are going to change a lot with the Apple Silicon.

 

[DrRadon]

Are there rumors for a 32" iMac?

Zero. Just lots of wet fantasies here.

 

[FSMBP]

Maybe they refresh the Intel iMacs right now (July?) and will introduce a new iconic iMac ARM 24” at the end of the year.

I'm hoping for that...Like a silent refresh for current iMacs (spec bump) in the next few weeks for iMacs.

Then October, redesigned ARM iMacs. Unfortunately, I'm thinking Apple will do integrated GPUs for a majority of the non-Pro machines (given how they demoed three 4K Streams in Final Cut Pro). And it may be the right decision, but with Intel, integrated GPUs are awful-waffle.

Side Question for devs back in '05: was the development kit Intel Mac given out using a high-end Intel processor? I'm trying to gauge if the ARM Mac Mini development kit is a high-end machine or is it a mid-level.

 

[DrRadon]

Yeah, a 27 inch refresh is imminent. With ARM being outlined for the a slow introduction in the next two years there really is no reason not to drop the new iMac ASAP (P being when apple sees it fit in their marketing plan)
I am pretty much back to my specs bump only anticipation.

Could see 21.5 not getting one just yet, based on the online store supply. Maybe it's the one more thing for the first ARM intro later this year.

 

[Azrael9]

Why are we assuming the ARM Mac shipping by the end of the year is even an iMac? It could very well be the MBP 13/14”.


The last Intel iMac could be updated next month and sadly it might even be early 2021 before we get the redesigned ARM iMac.

That one is quite simple.

History repeats.

It was Macbook and iMac with PPC to Intel.

It will be Macbook and iMac with Intel to ARM. Using the A14 AS variant.

Those target the largest amount of visible/sales/£££/consumers without 'software' edge cases. But it seems Apple has those covered even better this time with Ros' 2.

That Apple has the consumer momentum with it to finish off with prosumer iMac 27 (AS '15?'), Macbook Pro 16 inch (AS '15') and then the professional with the Mac Pro last (AS '16')

Azrael.
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I’m kinda picturing a simpler BTO process of

Mac Mini - Mac 24 - Mac 32 - Mac Pro

Mac Mini and Mac 24 to share a SoC variety (low to mid) and Mac 32 and Mac Pro to share an SoC variety (mid to high)

so 3 AS SoCs total across the lineups

with RAM and storage options but I’m curious to see how meaningful RAM is going to be at this stage... they may even just make RAM a standard amount and only give storage options


In a way this transition to AS kinda throws a lot of preconceptions about computers out the window given they were all set on a world of x86 based Intel processors.

We’ve seen how the relative performance of A series chips go against the Android counterparts in iPhones and there hasn’t ever really been too much of a need for more RAM on iOS devices. I’m cautiously hopeful that Apple may be able to bring that kind of efficiency into AS Macs as well which would really eliminate the need for too much RAM being needed (for most users).

If the Mac Pro is intended to move over to AS as well then the MPX modules may paint a way forward for how Apple plans to cater for higher end professional use cases. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the new AS Macs come with MPX.

So it would essentially split the desktop lineup to...

Everyday user with display - Mac Mini
Everyday user with no display - Mac 24
Everyday user with larger display needs / enthusiast user - Mac 32
Professional users - Mac Pro

I could also picture some of the MPX modules being offered as a BTO on the Mac 32. Like an option to add an Apple Afterburner card to the Mac 32. Depends on the maximum performance of the Mac 32 though.

Can’t wait for October now I’m definitely expecting a Mac event in mid October, probably about a week before the formal release of macOS Big Sur with the focus on AS Macs and the first AS Macs being available for pre-order that week and shipping with Big Sur the week after.
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Tear downs are explicitly prohibited AFAIK but I’d love for one of the peeps with a machine to try run Crysis on a VM

Good post.

Could be A14, A15 and A16 to cover those '3 tiers' of user.

Azrael.
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Forget AMD GPUs. They signed the end of AMD too by announcing switch to ARM. Metal works even better on Apple’s SoC. The software advantage will probably compensate for the hardware.

And forget too a 200w chip. ARM is more efficient than this, even if you put a GPU on the chip.

It's all about the software. It always has been. It always will be.

And it's no surprise to me that 'Metal' works even better on Apple's SoC because 'the software advantage will probbably compensate for the hardware.'

The PC has been a generic modular hot potch of 'brute force' tech' with 'generic' target hardware for software that treats it accordingly. How do we know this is so?

Just look at what Apple software and hardware optimised for a proprietary solution can do.

Vs. Open GL with 2nd rate middle ware with even more 2nd rate software ports compounding the problem.

eg. You pay hard case for the same gpu to perform at 50% of the Windows gpu. That couldn't go on. How can you pay more for less performance.

Bad software, middleware...mediocre software can cripple the best hardware.

No wonder Apple took Open Gl to the back of the cow shed and put a bullet in it...

...and now...Intel are next. Don't be surprise for a tight software/hardware A14 AS chip to cripple the Intel 'equivalent.'

INtel had their chance to get into phones. They blew it. Apple have ten years of experience doing these kind of power efficient performers.

SoC is the future. (Apple's SoC will perform way better than Intel's 'SoCk.')

Azrael.

 

[pldelisle]

SoC is the future.

Definitively.

 

[Manfredi]

That one is quite simple.

History repeats.

It was Macbook and iMac with PPC to Intel.

It will be Macbook and iMac with Intel to ARM. Using the A14 AS variant.

Those target the largest amount of visible/sales/£££/consumers without 'software' edge cases. But it seems Apple has those covered even better this time with Ros' 2.

That Apple has the consumer momentum with it to finish off with prosumer iMac 27 (AS '15?'), Macbook Pro 16 inch (AS '15') and then the professional with the Mac Pro last (AS '16')

Azrael.
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Good post.

Could be A14, A15 and A16 to cover those '3 tiers' of user.

Azrael.
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It's all about the software. It always has been. It always will be.

And it's no surprise to me that 'Metal' works even better on Apple's SoC because 'the software advantage will probbably compensate for the hardware.'

The PC has been a generic modular hot potch of 'brute force' tech' with 'generic' target hardware for software that treats it accordingly. How do we know this is so?

Just look at what Apple software and hardware optimised for a proprietary solution can do.

Vs. Open GL with 2nd rate middle ware with even more 2nd rate software ports compounding the problem.

eg. You pay hard case for the same gpu to perform at 50% of the Windows gpu. That couldn't go on. How can you pay more for less performance.

Bad software, middleware...mediocre software can cripple the best hardware.

No wonder Apple took Open Gl to the back of the cow shed and put a bullet in it...

...and now...Intel are next. Don't be surprise for a tight software/hardware A14 AS chip to cripple the Intel 'equivalent.'

INtel had their chance to get into phones. They blew it. Apple have ten years of experience doing these kind of power efficient performers.

SoC is the future. (Apple's SoC will perform way better than Intel's 'SoCk.')

Azrael.

i hope you're right... specifically for "first transition Mac" as iMac within the end of the year..

i'm in that (horrible ) situation (from buyer prospective) with no computer at all and needed to buy new one!!

but what you suggest me...? waiting till the end of the year hoping in a new iMac 24 ARM or in the meantime buying an iPad pro...? (with 1 month at least of delivery time)???

 

[Grohowiak]

My answer to the queston is no. Why would Apple announce Apple Mac SoC as the way forward then release a new intel iMac with a limted lifespan (with cutting edge apps). I'm pretty sure Apple is fully aware of this.

That's the thing.
What's limited lifespan?
You can buy a mac pro for $20K+ easy right now and there's probably a good reason for that.
Intel macs will run fine for years and we won't know REAL advantage / disadvantage of arm for quite some time too.
To me it seems like most people here buy for the novelty/lifestyle not for the need.

For a professional - from Today to end of the year that computer should already return itself as investment several times over.
If you are buying it for amazon browsing and the apple experience then definitely wait... or wait... and maybe wait some more lol.

 

[Azrael9]

I took another look at the only interesting part (except scribble) and I am still amazed that A12Z+16 Gb RAM at all can do what they showed. My MPB -2014 (of MP 2013) would not be able to handle that scene i Maya and fans would go absolutely crazy and then they add some shaders... The Tomb raider game run on emulation is nearly as impressive. Finally Excel might run adequately on a Mac.

Those demos blew me away.

I couldn't do a 6 million polygon scene in Lightwave with shaders without it crawling (my Mac was old, granted...) but to see it on a A12z silicon throwing it around like that... :O In Maya (which I doubt is as optimised for Mac as it is Windows...)

The Tomb Raider game. Running in 1080p (which most games are still running in now anynow...). It looked terrific. I wonder what the performance is on Tomb Raideron Intel iG at 1080p...? And that was in emulation mode. Most impressive.

And I didn't realise Excel performance was an issue. But it looked super smooth to me.

...the Photoshop demo. Looked fine to me. Any 5 gig file with that amount of layers doing stuff 'instantly' auguers well. The last time I saw Photoshop in transition software...it took a while to load and had progress bars on filters.

The Final Cut demo was very impressive. 3x4 files playing super smooth? Can the iNtel mini actually do that? Can an iMac do that? Can the Macbook Pro do that?

Azrael.

 

[Grohowiak]

Those demos blew me away.

I couldn't do a 6 million polygon scene in Lightwave with shaders without it crawling (my Mac was old, granted...) but to see it on a A12z silicon throwing it around like that... :O In Maya (which I doubt is as optimised for Mac as it is Windows...)

The Tomb Raider game. Running in 1080p (which most games are still running in now anynow...). It looked terrific. I wonder what the performance is on Tomb Raideron Intel iG at 1080p...? And that was in emulation mode. Most impressive.

And I didn't realise Excel performance was an issue. But it looked super smooth to me.

...the Photoshop demo. Looked fine to me. Any 5 gig file with that amount of layers doing stuff 'instantly' auguers well. The last time I saw Photoshop in transition software...it took a while to load and had progress bars on filters.

The Final Cut demo was very impressive. 3x4 files playing super smooth? Can the iNtel mini actually do that? Can an iMac do that? Can the Macbook Pro do that?

Azrael.

But that's the thing. All the examples are GPU tasks for most part.
Show me rendering time of that maya scene and etc for proper opinion.
Cherry picked clips don't represent the whole thing.
It absolutely looks promising but I want to see it tested in a daily consistent performance environment, then research hardware / software failure rate before I invest and move my work to new tech.
How will it work with 10 apps open at the same time like you can easily do it these days? iPad runs awesome but it's not exactly a multitasking king (i.e. several apps actually running at the same time).

 

[pldelisle]

But that's the thing. All the examples are GPU tasks for most part.
Show me rendering time of that maya scene and etc for proper opinion.
Cherry picked clips don't represent the whole thing.
It absolutely looks promising but I want to see it tested in a daily consistent performance environment, then research hardware / software failure rate before I invest and move my work to new tech.

This is the right attitude to have.

Show me proofs, show me benchmarks, show me power consumption numbers.

 

[Azrael9]

i hope you're right... specifically for "first transition Mac" as iMac within the end of the year..

i'm in that (horrible ) situation (from buyer prospective) with no computer at all and needed to buy new one!!

but what you suggest me...? waiting till the end of the year hoping in a new iMac 24 ARM or in the meantime buying an iPad pro...? (with 1 month at least of delivery time)???

Hello Manfredi.

Apple offered pretty comprehensive solutions for Intel software (I was shocked at how good that was compared to the last transition. The details of which in the presentation were quite clear.) and the 'emulation' software for Rosetta 2 seems to work even better than last time..! There might be edge cases. But that can depend on the developer.

The iOS write once and target deploy is a gamechanger. Macs at 20 million units. iPads at 20 million units. 40 million units. iPhone at tens of millions of units per quarter. £££££££££££££££££££.

Having millions of iphone and 1 million iPad apps. Just working 100% straight.

Seems like Apple are offering an insanely goode, out the gate solution, whether you want to run Intel or iOS ARM.

But yes, if you're, like me, in that (horrible) situations (again from my 'selfish' buyer perspective...) with no computer at all and 'need' to buy one?

Buy 2nd hand iMac. Prices are still quite high on eBay for iMac kit.
Old iMac. Bad value. Bad price. Old.
Hacktintosh. Good value. Good price. 'Maintainence' of the tech' variety. Not bullet proof. But people do have them as daily drivers.
'New' 'Legacy' Intel iMacs. 3Q. July? August? Sept?
iMac AS ARM. 4Q. October. Nov. Dec?

I probably should have just bit the bullet and built the Hack' back in March when my machine fell over. But this 'iMac' has been 'imminent' for a while.

Will wait 'just a bit' longer for the 'new' Intel iMac. And see if it's the new design?

Intel iMacs will tank in price when the new Mac ARM comes out.

Azrael.

 

[pldelisle]

Hacktintosh. Good value. Good price. 'Maintainence' of the tech' variety. Not bullet proof. But people do have them as daily drivers.

That's disgusting.

 

[Azrael9]

When Apple announced the Intel transition in June 2005, they released a PowerPC iMac 4 months later in October 2005...Then they released an Intel iMac several months later.

So, it is very possible they could release another Intel iMac soon.

I imagine Apple's ARM product line transition as follows (based on them using low-end ARM chips first as they have them designed):

Q4 2020: MacBook Air, Mac Mini
Q1 2021: MacBook Pros, iMac
Q2 2021: iMac Pro
Q2 2022: Mac Pro

As soon as that happens, the transition is pretty much done.

With the iMac Pro and Mac Pro following relatively soon after.

Azrael.

 

[FrankySavvy]

Just a thought.

Remember when there was a rumor of an all new 23” lower end iMac going around, I think that’s the 24” ARM iMac.

The iMac Sonny Dickson leaked that might have released at WWDC and obviously scrapped was rumored to have an all new design with AMD GPU’s. That means it would have to be running Intel chips. So I think they release a new design 27” iMac in the July/August timeframe with Intel chips and then update the 23” iMac with same design and ARM processors in the October, November timeframe. Also the rumoured 13.3” Arm MacBook Pro could be the redesign smaller bezel 14” that we thought we were getting as well, also coming October, November.

So to break it down:

July/August - Redesigned Intel 27” iMac with Intel 10th Gen, NAVI GPU, SSD, T2 chip etc

October/November - Redesigned 24” Arm iMac and 13.3” Arm MacBook Pro.

This aligns with Kuo rumors, Sonny Dickson, Jon Proser, CoinX etc.

 

[Azrael9]

That's disgusting.

But if Apple built solutions for their Mac buying customers...clearly a need for a consumer, prosumer and 'pro' tower.

Azrael.

 

[pldelisle]

Another thing maybe : If Apple doesn't want to cannibalize its Intel iMac sales, they might offer the redesign with the upcoming Intel iMac. So they offer something nice, a new design, to incite people to buy it even if it's not on ARM.

Mayyyybe ...

 

[Azrael9]

Just a thought.

Remember when there was a rumor of an all new 23” lower end iMac going around, I think that’s the 24” ARM iMac.

The iMac Sonny Dickson leaked that might have released at WWDC and obviously scrapped was rumored to have an all new design with AMD GPU’s. That means it would have to be running Intel chips. So I think they release a new design 27” iMac in the July/August timeframe with Intel chips and then update the 23” iMac with same design and ARM processors in the October, November timeframe. Also the rumoured 13.3” Arm MacBook Pro could be the redesign smaller bezel 14” that we thought we were getting as well, also coming October, November.

So to break it down:

July/August - Redesigned Intel 27” iMac with Intel 10th Gen, NAVI GPU, SSD, T2 chip etc

October/November - Redesigned 24” Arm iMac and 13.3” Arm MacBook Pro.

This aligns with Kuo rumors, Sonny Dickson, Jon Proser, CoinX etc.

I think you're right on the nose with that.

Azrael.