Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[SociableOdin]

Anybody else think that the MacOS redesign kind of implies the 24" ARM iMac will be touch screen? They specifically called out that menu items now have a bit more room to breathe which may be so that it is easier to register a finger touch. Some of the other design choices are also leaning towards iPadOS but that may just be to unify the OSes a bit more.

 

[Voyageur]

I'm very happy I didn't push the button on a 7,1 Mac Pro. I think the base model will become even more embarrassing once ARM iMacs drop. If you can wait another 6-12 months I'd sit tight and see what Apple offer, in two years it will be really interesting...

I am on the verge with 7.1. And I think that in the case of the Mac Pro, the big problem is now: investing in a very expensive car is now a big question, yes, but wait 2 years ...? I’m sure that they will leave such solutions as Mac Pro for the end of the transition period.

Right now i dont know what to do.

Maybe, but then I have big, big doubts about a redesign. Most likely a spec bump, because as we already said, thermals and internals are going to change a lot with the Apple Silicon.

Is logical. The funny thing is that we have already discussed all this here a month or another ago))

What's limited lifespan?
You can buy a mac pro for $20K+ easy right now and there's probably a good reason for that.
Intel macs will run fine for years and we won't know REAL advantage / disadvantage of arm for quite some time too.
To me it seems like most people here buy for the novelty/lifestyle not for the need.

For a professional - from Today to end of the year that computer should already return itself as investment several times over.
If you are buying it for amazon browsing and the apple experience then definitely wait... or wait... and maybe wait some more lol.

This is a difficult question. Even taking into account making money, I expect that my Professional decisions, which I choose, should serve with dignity and for a long time, from ten years at least. As an example, Mac Pro cheese graters from 2010 still breathe and cannot be killed. What about the current one? Whether it will last the same 10 years with upgrades - I have great doubts.

Moreover, for the first time in a long time, such equipment may decrease in price and sell poorly in the secondary market. At least not as good as it has been in recent years.

It means that Apple stops making Intel Macs in 2022, macOS stops support Intel in 2024 and Rosetta in 2026. Probably it all will happen faster this time.

If such a decision is made, it will cause hatred of the current prosumers with the Mac Pro for a lot of money.

 

[Freida]

People keep saying that ARM will not be cheaper. I think people are missing few things here.

Apple will provide their complete silicon -> that is CPU and GPU in one. Now, lets take 27" iMac as example that ships with 570X minimum GPU and goes to 580X GPU before BTO options. I don't know how much these are sold for to Apple but that is savings there. Then, Intel CPU will not be purchased also so savings there.
Now, are you telling me, that paying 2 external vendors is cheaper than what Apple is building inhouse and its actually one chip instead of 2?
I think people are completely missing the point here and don't realise how big this ARM is. Apple will kill every competition in terms of performance and if Apple decides to pass the savings on customer then even the price.

Look at smartphone market - no one can match Apple's performance. Now, Apple will dominate that computers the same way as they dominate the performance in smartphones.

Intel is pretty much done longterm unless they come up with something that would be able to compete.

Think of a scenario where in few years Apple's solution will be 2+ time faster than anything Intel produces. More people and businesses will switch to Apple as there is no way people (or anyone) would say no to that kind of performance. Just like they are dominating with iPhone they will dominate (eventually) with computers.

If Maya runs crazy fast on Apple's solution then why in the hell would my work still keep the crappy xeon's and quadro's?

Am I the only one that sees this? @Azrael9 I'm sure you are with me too, right?

This is the beginning of the x86 end. Intel is pretty much dead and AMD we shall see if they innovate and keep up with Apple (unlikely).
Sooner or later, everyone will switch to ARM.

Intel has been doing chips for what? Half a century? Now Apple comes in and in 10 years achieve amazing results. Imagine Apple in another 10 years.

I wish that 27 (or 32) iMac was first but I also know that 1st gen will be 'weak' compared to the beast that we will get in 2nd or 3rd generation!

So yeah, I will probably get the last intel iMac and then in 2-3 years (before Apple Care runs out) sell it and upgrade to what hopefully will be a monster! The future looks bright guys and I cannot wait to be part of this.

WWDC was fusion crap but this ARM looks so good! I wish I wasn't so impatient though.

 

[Homy]

If such a decision is made, it will cause hatred of the current prosumers with the Mac Pro for a lot of money.

They did so last time.

 

[Grohowiak]

12.9" 256GB iPad pro is $1099 + tax.
Add magic keyboard $299 and we're at $1398 + tax and somehow higher clocked and internally cooled macs with much larger panels are supposed to cost less?
New MBA with i5 / 16GB / 256 is $100 cheaper.

I would assume the cost for intel to manufacture 100 million chips (including the few million for apple) is much lower than apple manufacturing JUST lets say 5-10 million chips with infrastructure now adding to the cost.

 

[Homy]

People keep saying that ARM will not be cheaper. I think people are missing few things here.

I think people are completely missing the point here and don't realise how big this ARM is. Apple will kill every competition in terms of performance and if Apple decides to pass the savings on customer then even the price.

You may also be missing the point. Reduced costs doesn't always mean lower prices for the customers but higher profit for the manufacturer, specially in Apple's case. I hope I'll be wrong but Apple's history says otherwise.

 

[Freida]

Oh please! You really think that the margin on iPad is the same as on iMac?

12.9" 256GB iPad pro is $1099 + tax.
Add magic keyboard $299 and we're at $1398 + tax and somehow higher clocked and internally cooled macs with much larger panels are supposed to be cheaper?
Just cause it is their own tech it doesn't mean much.

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Which is what I said in the post so I don't get your point?

You may also be missing the point. Reduced costs doesn't always mean lower prices for the customers but higher profit for the manufactur, specially in Apple's case. I hope I'll be wrong but Apple's history says otherwise.

 

[xgman]

People keep saying that ARM will not be cheaper. I think people are missing few things here.

Components for first Apple Silicon Macs will cost Apple more, says Kuo

 

[Jamacfer]

If you were going to buy the iPad Pro...just be forewarned that the Ipad is getting a 'bump' in the fall. Likely with the A14x which will toast the current one.

There are probably good refurb prices on eBay for 2017 (the sturdy version) and even the 2018 models much cheaper than buying new.

I'd like an iPad I am going to buy one. But I can't do with the current 'bendy' 12.9 incher. I want them to upgrade the frame for the model coming this fall.

When you've bought a machine...those 6 months evaporate. But when you're 'waiting' it seems to take ages...

Perception. A wonderful thing.

Azrael.
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One way of creating distance between the old and the new?

Size.

Ergo. 24 inch iMac ARM. 30-32 inch iMac ARM.

All of a sudden the old 21 and 27s look...'old.' Very old. And not so good value.... expensive.

Azrael.
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AS silicon will be customised in the same way the eg. A14 for iPhone vs A14x for iPad will be customised.

Cores. Clock speed. Features. And stomp all over Intel's az in the process.

Azrael.

The rumored “bump” iPad Pro mini led 12.9” is expected not before 2021 (maybe first quarter) and will be even more expensive. The “bendy 12.9” is only a fake news. I would be glad to know how many iPads suffer of this... vapourware.

 

[Grohowiak]

Oh please! You really think that the margin on iPad is the same as on iMac?


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Which is what I said in the post so I don't get your point?

I don't know but i understand the difference between having to support entire manufacturing line vs paying somebody else (that does it ten fold) do it.
I'm not betting on them to be cheaper specs wise. I mean why in the world would apple do it in the first place if people will buy their stuff anyway... $299 keyboard with a trackpad and $129 usb c cable ring a bell lol?

 

[Homy]

Which is what I said in the post so I don't get your point?

Well you said two opposite things at the same time. First you said
"People keep saying that ARM will not be cheaper. I think people are missing few things here." which means you think ARM Macs will be cheaper and people are wrong. Then you say "if Apple decides to pass the savings on customer then even the price." which means you also think it's possible that Apple won't lower Mac prices.

So if you admit with the fact that people may be right about the prices why do you start with saying that they are wrong and missing things?

 

[DrRadon]

I think some of you might be missing years of development (and still years of development to come with a two year gradual introduction) that these chips will not be cheap just because they were cheaper to manufacture in their final stage of production.

 

[ernstinvisiblelubitsch]

that’s true but it’s not like they haven’t been selling iPhones and iPads with their SOCs the entire time, which I’ve heard is a pretty big business lol. Surely not all of the cost of development is going to be reflected in just the Mac line pricing.

 

[DrRadon]

that’s true but it’s not like they haven’t been selling iPhones and iPads with their SOCs the entire time, which I’ve heard is a pretty big business lol. Surely not all of the cost of development is going to be reflected in just the Mac line pricing.

No, the mac pricing will also be reflected by apple just charging a premiums because "**** you - we like to". ;-D

 

[Freida]

What I meant was that for Apple it will be cheaper to do everything in house. Whether or not they will pass it on is another thing but I disagree with what Kuo said. They are already producing chips for iPhone and iPads so adding one more is probably not going to be that costly.
So they will save money on Intel CPUs and AMD GPUs.

Sure, I get what you mean but I didn't mean it like that. And I also think that Apple is aiming to be better competitive so I would guess that some savings will be translated to us. We will see with time though. We all know how greedy Tim is.

Well you said two opposite things at the same time. First you said
"People keep saying that ARM will not be cheaper. I think people are missing few things here." which means you think ARM Macs will be cheaper and people are wrong. Then you say "if Apple decides to pass the savings on customer then even the price." which means you also think it's possible that Apple won't lower Mac prices.

So if you admit with the fact that people may be right about the prices why do you start with saying that they are wrong and missing things?

 

[ssong]

Components for first Apple Silicon Macs will cost Apple more, says Kuo

But may be offset for the end user by not purchasing intel chips says Kuo in the same report

 

[ksodell]

Voyageur
"Now there’s even less chance that this will happen. It makes no sense to do a global redesign for the sake of one of the latest generation of Intel, to again change the structure for Silicone. Unless they can unify it, which is also unlikely."


I think it might make sense to release a redesigned 27" because otherwise that tired old design could be around for up to 2 and a half years until an ARM model. How many units of the old design would Apple sell in 2021/22 when people would know that a redesigned ARM iMac was coming?

Surely even Tim Cook wouldn't say that he was "really excited" about spec bumped intel iMacs, especially after all that ARM promotion.

Sadly, I think Tim 'Marketing and Sales' Cook would profess excitement about spec bumps.

 

[askunk]

i need a computer that perfectly works with multitasking GOOD at all at the same time and my biggest question is related to photo editing of heavy DNG photos

Ciao Manfredi (fellow Italian )
Get away from the notion that RISC cannot afford to multitask. iOS keeps apps running, though it compresses most of their resources due to the limited RAM available (reduced mainly to save energy).

I've used RISC for many years (under mac OS classic and X) and they were multitasking as much as my intel macs.

Apple showed they understand you need at least 16GB (and hopefully 512GB SSD will be standard as well) to let them work properly.

I don't see Apple using a third-party GPU with the ARM architecture Macs. The A12Z has 8 GPU cores and looked like it could handle "intensive" graphics work well enough in the demo and Apple can always add more.

4 cores, the other 4 are low consumption and do not handle all instructions all the time.
1 million polygons are one tile on a wall for a proper 3D model. We're talking hundreds of millions. That framerate can almost be reached with my MBP Retina 13" (late 2012) if you rely on Metal.
I think it is beating intel Iris graphics but perhaps the RDNA in the new AMD APUs are a good competitor if not a clear winner. We'll see.

Powerful graphics such as a 5700XT cannot be achieved easily. AMD has been struggling for years to overcome nVIDIA and they may still loose the battle this year again, let alone Apple.

I am curious to see how the first "big" iMac will be treated at the end of 2021 (or perhaps even later) GPU wise. It will show the way to the potential IMP (that it is given for dead at this point, other than a last intel refresh) and the MP.

The afterburner card is a cool concept. It can be flexibly adapted to work on many different tasks. Fantastic powerful card... for 2.000$. Will there be anything interesting in the middle?

Will Apple have more consistency in their range and keep alive the "prosumers"?

For sure, the rumour about Apple working on a gaming machine... was wrong again.
Apple is opening to gaming but if you want to participate, you need to write two different codes. Learn Metal and code it for AS. I hope it doesn't lead to a "mobile" only approach, where games are stripped down and adapted to work on iDevices as well. Goodbye, serious PC gaming. Gamers will need to buy a PC on a side.

Productivity wise, it is an interesting time to be alive and watch how Apple will crush the competition.

Wouldn't there need to be an entirely new OS to run ARM chips?

Not at all. That was the point of yesterday's keynote. The new mac OS is written natively for both platforms and keeps continuity.

 

[CWallace]

It means that Apple stops making Intel Macs in 2022, macOS stops support Intel in 2024 and Rosetta in 2026. Probably it all will happen faster this time.

First, I do not think Apple will move the entire Mac product line to Apple Silicon within 24 months.

Second, when Apple does finally move the entire Mac product line to Apple Silicon, Apple provides support for "Legacy" hardware for 5 to 7 years so while they may not release a new version of macOS for the Intel Macs, they will continue to provide security updates for years to come and the software developers will likely still provide some level of support for awhile afterwards. Plus for those who use their Macs to run Windows apps, those apps (and Windows) will continue to be supported forever so effectively their Macs can continue to run provided they can get parts, which again, will be at least 7 years from Apple and probably longer from third-party repair centers.

Anybody else think that the MacOS redesign kind of implies the 24" ARM iMac will be touch screen?

No.

Apple is on record that macOS is not meant to be used via a touch interface and while that philosophy might change when macOS is fully migrated to Apple Silicon and there are no Intel legacy apps around, that will be years away.

4 cores, the other 4 are low consumption and do not handle all instructions all the time. Powerful graphics such as a 5700XT cannot be achieved easily. AMD has been struggling for years to overcome nVIDIA and they may still loose the battle this year again, let alone Apple.

We're in the early days.

Rumors are Apple Silicon on Mac will start with 12 cores and they certainly will be able to scale. And as I noted in my reply, nothing is preventing Apple from creating their own dedicated GPUs with scores or even hundreds of cores if that is what is necessary to provide the power of whatever Nvidia or AMD workstation GPUs are providing if that is needed.

 

[askunk]

Exactly: 10 years of development, early days.

I wanna see what can they do in just a couple more to be able to compete with Intel/AMD/nVIDIA on all the range.

 

[pldelisle]

I don't think they can compete anytime soon with NVIDIA in raw numbers. It's a SoC, not a dedicated chip. The goal isn't the same.

 

[craigrusse11]

An iPad Pro 12.9" with 1Tb of storage is currently £1,469.. therefore, a machine with similar or higher spec CPU, and that has more ram and larger screen will no doubt be even more expensive. Don't fool yourselves, these machine will be every bit as expensive as current Macs.

 

[ssong]

An iPad Pro 12.9" with 1Tb of storage is currently £1,469.. therefore, a machine with similar or higher spec CPU, and that has more ram and larger screen will no doubt be even more expensive. Don't fool yourselves, these machine will be every bit as expensive as current Macs.

I’d say iPads are priced like that because Apple can afford to. There are simply no comparable devices in the product category.

I could imagine the iPad leaning harder into graphical design and the Mac line into more cpu intensive tasks as a differentiating factor.

 

[Grohowiak]

I’d say iPads are priced like that because Apple can afford to. There are simply no comparable devices in the product category.

I could imagine the iPad leaning harder into graphical design and the Mac line into more cpu intensive tasks as a differentiating factor.

In my opinion there is a reason they focused those videos on performance gains. Even though selective, they are from the get go marketing this as a much faster solution.
If apple tells me I will pay less for better performance that will be something.

 

[ssong]

In my opinion there is a reason they focused those videos on performance gains. Even though selective, they are from the get go marketing this as a much faster solution.
If apple tells me I will pay less for better performance that will be something.

Yeah.. hard to imagine under Tim Apple... which reminds me... w/e happened to that random rumour about Tim Apple being on his way out?