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Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?
- Thread starter krazzix
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so I should be good if I put two 8gb that I ordered from owc? The iMac I ordered I left it at 8gb so that would give me 24gb.
Yep you will be good. Slots 1 and 3 will have 4 GB sticks. Just stick the 8 GB sticks in the open slots( 2 and 4) and you will have 24 GB of ram running at full speed.
I think Crucial has lower price for higher quality. OWC has a price premium for .... absolutely nothing.
They changed something, but doesn't necessarily means they have matched the iMac Pro cooling system. There are no external changes ( no new input vents and very little evidence of new output vent ). The iMac Pro got both.
If go back to the specs on the previous iMac. (2019)
https://support.apple.com/kb/SP790?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
The sound pressures is higher but there are also three measurements, not just two. The third is for how much noise the HDD makes. There is little sense in trying to make the idle noise "floor" of the cooling air system exit vent lower than the HDD. The new system ( and iMac Pro) tosses the HDD so there is a new 'floor" to noise they could go after.
The chart pragmatically shows that the idle noise level is lower with this new iMac. That really doesn't say much about what happens when the 10 core CPU and the Pro 5700 XT are banging away at full throttle.
The web browsing on wireless is probably far closer to idle ( although there are some ad heavy web sites that can ramp up all kinds of disco and burn gobs of power. )
Doubtful.
Which was basically just for idle power noise. Not really going to illustrate any new much higher capacity system by doing that. ( another reply to that observation 3 posts up from here. )
Also if they wanted quieter idle noise it would likely be a larger one big fans. Not two. There are no new input vents. There are not bigger output vent ( or else the RAM door wouldn't be there. If the DIMMs are under the door then it can't be an exit vent. ). The basic case design has the basic limited issue. As long as Apple is fixated on hiding the vents from view, the vent will be relatively small so can be hidden behind the pedestal arm.
The T2 chip is basically incompatible with an HDD or Fusion drive. ( The way Apple has implemented boot security it just pragmatically is. ) That's why there is no Fusion on the 27". The 21.5" is basically untouched. Apple just juggle the price on the entry SSD and made fusion an option (not the default. ).
Yes they could have stuffed a bigger fan into the iMac but with no bigger input vents and no bigger output vent the only way to move more air is to make the system louder. ( crank up the velocity coming out of the same "hole" (vent) ). They could put a bigger fan in ( encroach on space the HDD took up a bit ), but the outcome of that is probably mostly a louder "jet engine at take off " effect. Maybe some incremental increased cooling but probably nothing matching the iMac Pro. They could also tweak the larger fan blade design to get a lower noise level out of the idle speed. ( but that many not increase thermal offload capacity. )
At idle they are not. In fact, probably much lower. That's what is being measured on the tech spec sheet.
These are very power hungry if clock them very high. If don't clock them high then not that much different. Apple can cap these for bursts or run the fans louder.
No. The RAM door disappears for two reason on the iMac Pro.
1. They are trying to hide the large exit vent. Apple also tries to hide the RAM door. Can't hide both if make the exit vent bigger. All the heat from the CPU and GPU in the iMac is pumped/piped to the exit vent so can be blow directly out of the case. It is just as much that it is all collected in one point than the heat sink on the CPU and GPU packages themselves.
2. The CPU and GPU are moved farther apart. When the CPU move farther off the center line of the case the DIMM slots have to move with it. There is a limit to how far away the DIMM slots can be. If Apple wants to keep the DIMM slots on the centerline so can "hide" them then the iMac CPU has to not move much.
But Apple could have moved to a bigger Fan. The T2 (and SSD blade ) would only take a fraction of the the old 3.5" HDD bay space. A bigger fan could encroach on what was left over.
OWC has rebates for old DIMMs. If want to give up the older ones then can "swap" new for old. If apply the discount for the old .
Crucial is Micron though. OWC doesn't have their own RAM chip factory out back. And now where near that kind of volume. They are just trying to be better priced than Apple and not take big hits on inventory and component costs.
So 5500 XT? Are you ****ing kidding me?!?
For the same price of $2,300, in 2017 one could purchase an iMac with a 580...which has the same exact graphical performance as a 5500 XT.
So after three years, while GPUs have improved by leaps and bounds, we're supposed to pay a lot of extra money if we want to enjoy those improvements?
Wow, bravo Apple! Way to be greedyI'd like to say I'm surprised but...
These aren't the PCI-e add-in-card models. They are clocked substantially different. The pertinent issue is how well the 5500 XT runs at a lower clock than the 580 also at a lower clock.
The 580 was also not the "default" or "entry" GPU model for any of the standard configurations. The top end Polaris always grabbed better results for applying more power. For an iMac enclosure context that isn't really an upside.
Radeon 580 was standard on the top model with 3.8GHz CPU. The BTO option was for the 4.2 GHz CPU. It could be had with iMac Radeon 575 or 580. https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...7-inch-aluminum-retina-5k-mid-2017-specs.html
5500XT is actually similar to 580X. Here you can see that RX 5500XT performs the same as RX 580 in some games and a little better in other games. So not much improvement over the past three years. 5700 should be standard on the top model. You never know with Apple though. They may have clocked 5500XT in such a way that it appears to be faster than 580X.
Its an expression, not literal
Anyway, the new iMacs are actually cheaper than before. The fast that they axed the fusion basically reduced the price as before you had to pay more. So in this way its win win.
The entry one is basically for offices etc. where the storage is not demanding and nor is everything else.
Think of it like receptionists etc. For them this is a beast computer
Well, my main issue from the beginning in my original post was the underpowered GPU 5300 in the first two 27" models and as a side note I saw that you can't configure the storage at all. Then someone pointed out like you in another discussion that for the price of a SSD upgrade to 512 you get also a better CPU. That's fair, but it is still not the same as before.
Last year both models had the same HDD size of 1TB. That was enough for most of us that didn't need SSD. You had to buy the second model only if you wanted a better CPU or GPU, not because of a too small HDD. Now with only 256 GB we almost have to buy the second model even if we don't want to. Yes you get a better CPU but why would I have to pay not $200 but almost $300 extra here in Sweden just to get an extra 256 GB? Yes you can argue all day how much better SSD is but it doesn't make the drive bigger. The question is not how much better hardware I get, it is if I really need it.
At the same time you don't get a better GPU. Having only 256GB is like having 8GB of RAM. You must upgrade it somehow for an additional cost and Apple knows it. My point is that Apple should have included 512 GB in all 27" iMacs and justified the price difference with a better CPU and GPU in the second model, just like last year. Now I don't get enough storage right from the start, I have to spend another $300 or get an external storage by myself and if I want a better GPU I have to go all the way up to the top model.
The iMacs may be cheaper comparing to last year's standards but not really according to today's standards. Here in Sweden they're actually only about $8 cheaper. Oh well, that's the way it is now. Looking forward to AS. Hope Apple doesn't disappoint and play cheap next year but I'm afraid they may just try to barely outperform Radeon 5500XT and advertise it as "AS outperfoming last year's top Intel iMac".
ok guys i havent had a Mac with catalina how bad is it compare to mojave
On the conversation of being a "sucker" for buying this machine, while in the grand timeline of new processors and GPUs on the horizon, it may be questionable, this is a good machine, especially in my context: A longtime mac lover who needs windows to game. I got the base top end i7 and spec'd up to 5700XT 16GB and 1TB SSD, plus $75 worth of OWC RAM to bring the machine up to 24GB of RAM.
In all I'll be spending just over $3200, but in the process I get a one of a kind 5K display, found elsewhere in a less desirable package for $1200 when available (it's not right now), a custom ~$600 GPU PC users couldn't get if they wanted to (I know of the slight down clocking but overall the RAM increase will be helpful) a $400+ 8 core i7 CPU I didn't really need but am happy to have, Free Airpods, a generous (~300) student discount with no verification process (I qualify, maybe past purchases preverify) and the assembly, power supply, keyboard, peripherals, Apple Care+, so this machine is no one else's problem but Apple's if the machine bites it in the next 3 years.
On sound, the loudest this machine will get will be quieter than any windows machine with AMD or Intel, my house mate has a 2070S, i7 9th gen, high end motherboard, a bunch-o-fans, and has been encouraging me to go the PC route but I hate the prospect of a bunch of space being taken up for a heat locker that I am solely responsible for managing, and if something goes wrong, lets check the Rolodex of the 13 companies that make up the parts of this machine and see if the warranty is still valid. Not a fun prospect.
I mean, I priced this out and If I wanted a comparable windows machine it wouldn't be much less in cost, wouldn't really look like $3000 and take hours of my time to assemble and troubleshoot. Not mention no company has a comparable warranty, $135-160 for this iMac for 3 years of all around walk in service. HP, Dell, etc charge 4x that with some earn back rebate crap. This is a no brainier for me after months engrossed in the cesspool of PC parts/prebuilds windows shopping, despite the aging design this is a great release on the high end in my opinion, certainly blows the iMac Pro out of the water unless they update it with RDNA2 in a few months and make me commit seppuku. Luckily unlike the PC I'll be able to sell this puppy with ease for a good portion of its initial worth if I choose do so. Happy for this all around despite no RDNA 2 or redesign, AS is just around the corner and game streaming is taking baby steps so I'm happy to have this last intel/AMD holdover on my way into the future.
In all I'll be spending just over $3200, but in the process I get a one of a kind 5K display, found elsewhere in a less desirable package for $1200 when available (it's not right now), a custom ~$600 GPU PC users couldn't get if they wanted to (I know of the slight down clocking but overall the RAM increase will be helpful) a $400+ 8 core i7 CPU I didn't really need but am happy to have, Free Airpods, a generous (~300) student discount with no verification process (I qualify, maybe past purchases preverify) and the assembly, power supply, keyboard, peripherals, Apple Care+, so this machine is no one else's problem but Apple's if the machine bites it in the next 3 years.
On sound, the loudest this machine will get will be quieter than any windows machine with AMD or Intel, my house mate has a 2070S, i7 9th gen, high end motherboard, a bunch-o-fans, and has been encouraging me to go the PC route but I hate the prospect of a bunch of space being taken up for a heat locker that I am solely responsible for managing, and if something goes wrong, lets check the Rolodex of the 13 companies that make up the parts of this machine and see if the warranty is still valid. Not a fun prospect.
I mean, I priced this out and If I wanted a comparable windows machine it wouldn't be much less in cost, wouldn't really look like $3000 and take hours of my time to assemble and troubleshoot. Not mention no company has a comparable warranty, $135-160 for this iMac for 3 years of all around walk in service. HP, Dell, etc charge 4x that with some earn back rebate crap. This is a no brainier for me after months engrossed in the cesspool of PC parts/prebuilds windows shopping, despite the aging design this is a great release on the high end in my opinion, certainly blows the iMac Pro out of the water unless they update it with RDNA2 in a few months and make me commit seppuku. Luckily unlike the PC I'll be able to sell this puppy with ease for a good portion of its initial worth if I choose do so. Happy for this all around despite no RDNA 2 or redesign, AS is just around the corner and game streaming is taking baby steps so I'm happy to have this last intel/AMD holdover on my way into the future.
I looked at the 2019 specs. Sorry about that. Ok it was standard. There also wasn't much of a choice either though. Nothing above it either.
That is 5500 XT. The Pro 5500 XT is different.
Pro 5500 Xt
"
AMD Radeon™ Pro 5500 XT Graphics
24
Compute Units
1,536
Stream Processors
"
Radeon™ Pro 5000 Series
Regular add-in-card 5500 XT
"
AMD Radeon™ RX 5500 XT Graphics
Compute Units
22
...
Stream Processors
1408
"
AMD Radeon™ RX Graphics Cards
Built on the AMD RDNA™ 3 architecture, AMD Radeon RX 7000 Series graphics deliver next-generation performance and visuals for all gamers & streamers.
Some number but different CU count to go along with the different clock settings.
These charts pointing off the cards that the Pro RX 5500 Xt is not are muddling the issue. Apple got a 'custom' GPU . That also probably impacts costs. More cores at slower clocks isn't going to lose as much as a 580 clocked down (and not gaining any cores).
P.S. Doing a big more digging. At the Pro Radeonn link if look at the other variants in the iMac the 5500 XT has the highest boost clock. The boost clock for this Pro 5500 XT ( 1757 ) is higher than the "game clock" mode ( 1717 ) of the add-in-card model (with fewer cores ). Higher clock and more cores should be faster with it hits some burst zone. . It comes in short of the desktop's peak of 1845.
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Yes I know but RX cards are usually faster than Apple's Pro cards. That's why I think RX 5500XT vs RX 580 is equivalent to Apple's Pro 5500Xt vs Pro 580X. Just look at the FP32 TFLOPS: 5.3 for Pro 5500XT and 5.2 for RX 5500XT. Almost the same.
What is higher quality about the crucial RAM? Is there any that work better with Logic ?
AMD Pro cards in iMac: https://www.amd.com/en/graphics/radeon-apple-5000-series#SPECIFICATIONS
AMD Pro Mobile cards in Macbooks: https://www.amd.com/en/graphics/radeon-apple-5000m-series#SPECIFICATIONS
Full size AMD 5700 XT specs: https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt#product-specs
Full size AMD 5600XT specs: https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-5600-xt#product-specs
Full size AMD 5500XT specs: https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-5500-xt#product-specs
AMD Pro Mobile cards in Macbooks: https://www.amd.com/en/graphics/radeon-apple-5000m-series#SPECIFICATIONS
Full size AMD 5700 XT specs: https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt#product-specs
Full size AMD 5600XT specs: https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-5600-xt#product-specs
Full size AMD 5500XT specs: https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-5500-xt#product-specs
I recently upgraded my 2015 MacBook Pro from Mojave to Catalina. The only issue I had was my Logitech MX Master 3 mouse could not connect via Bluetooth on Catalina. I installed Catalina as a fresh OS install. I resorted to installing Mojave as a fresh install then getting my mouse detected by the OS then upgrading to Catalina.
The second issue I have is the silly prompt that comes up when an app wants to access a certain folder. Apart from that it has been great sailing.
I am now waiting to see what Catalina is like on the 2020 iMac. I might as well as hang out for two weeks and hopefully Max does more in-depth videos,
Apples marketing is amazing.
Every Youtuber be like "YOU CAN SAVE THOUSANDS BY BUYING RAM YOURSELF" making the hardware look like a better deal
Every Youtuber be like "YOU CAN SAVE THOUSANDS BY BUYING RAM YOURSELF" making the hardware look like a better deal
The dies are the same but the clocking makes a substantive difference. The 580 sags from
"up to 6.2 TFLOPS"
https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/radeon-rx-580
to with Pro 580
" Peak up to 5.5 TFLOPS"
AMD Radeon™ PRO 500 Series Graphics
AMD has announced the high-performance Radeon™ Pro 500 series graphics card, which are built on the advanced Polaris architecture and GPU acceleration.
The 580X probably clawed a bit of that back, but there is much bigger gap there with the Polaris , 14nm (maybe 12nn in X case ) implementations and the Navi , 7nm solution.
This is all true and has been the reason for the last 20 years that I have bought Apple for all my computers [personal and business].
Unfortunately this has changed as I rely on windows for certain apps, and as we all know boot camp wont exist in the new Apple Silicone I have got a professionally built PC coming, with reliable hardware components.
The answer to all this is buy what suits your needs and be happy. I may get a 24” AS iMac for home to remote into the PC and most likely a 14” MBP for personal use. But for work...... probably no more Apple unless they pull some tricks in the next 2 years.
Every Youtuber makes it sound like it is the best thing since sliced bread !!!! When will it end? I wonder if anyone has got a direct answer from Apple as to why they charge such obscene amounts for RAM upgrade?Apples marketing is amazing.
Every Youtuber be like "YOU CAN SAVE THOUSANDS BY BUYING RAM YOURSELF" making the hardware look like a better deal