Will you leave the Apple ecosystem because of CSAM?

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

I posted this a few pages or in another thread too. I believe most of the kiddie porn comes out (distributed from) of Mexico actually. But yes, other countries mainly.

And becaaauuusseee it's not a crime in most countries.

This is an excuse "won't somebody please think of the children." Anyone not blind can see it.

I think you'll need to justify that statement. What countries permit Child Pornography?

 

[nickdalzell1]

There are some states in the USA with an extremely low age of consent, but that's all I know.

There might be some middle east countries which marry out kids to adults, again, not sure how true it is.

 

[Mendota]

And now for something to lighted the mood. A reminder that to enjoy Linux or Unix, it doesn't have to be Apple.

 

[zinacef]

Not sure if this has been posted already in this massive thread. Interesting read!

The All-Seeing "i": Apple Just Declared War on Your Privacy

“Under His Eye,” she says. The right farewell. “Under His Eye,” I reply, and she gives a little nod.

edwardsnowden.substack.com

 

[nickdalzell1]

And now for something to lighted the mood. A reminder that to enjoy Linux or Unix, it doesn't have to be Apple.

You can make Linux look, feel and sound any way you want. One of its benefits. Some tweaks require entering in some rather long lines of text into the terminal but it's not like there ain't tons of info online lining out each step where even the most stupid idiot with basic keyboard skills couldn't figure it out.

 

[4491275]

I thought I could trust Apple considering they stood up to the FBI before and refused to build a backdoor and have been innovating with privacy features in recent years.

The CSAM detection feature feels like the first time since all of those movements that Apple didn’t work to preserve privacy, and it’s broken my trust. I knew Apple already bent to the will of the Chinese government in China, but still, Apple was innovating with privacy here in the U.S.

Now, Apple has built a way to scan your images for things right into the operating system. Yes, there are multiple checks in place (the hashes having to come from both of the two child protection agencies, human review, iCloud Photos has to be turned on, 30 picture threshold), but I just can’t stomach it. It’s essentially a backdoor, it’s able to be abused, and Apple no longer has the excuse that they can’t do something if forced by a government.

The fact that pretty much all of the major privacy advocates are saying “stop! This is dangerous” only makes me feel worse. I would’ve been more okay with this whole thing if Apple just did scanning of images only on the iCloud server, even if it was more privacy invasive, because at least I already was expecting my privacy to be invaded if my content is on someone else’s server. But when it’s baked into the OS, it just doesn’t sit right with me.

I’ve already been in the process of moving to more privacy-driven software anyways, but maybe this was the reality check and kick in the butt I needed to really kick that process into gear. I feel like I put too much trust into Apple now.

I thought I could trust Apple considering they stood up to the FBI before and refused to build a backdoor and have been innovating with privacy features in recent years.

The CSAM detection feature feels like the first time since all of those movements that Apple didn’t work to preserve privacy, and it’s broken my trust. I knew Apple already bent to the will of the Chinese government in China, but still, Apple was innovating with privacy here in the U.S.

Now, Apple has built a way to scan your images for things right into the operating system. Yes, there are multiple checks in place (the hashes having to come from both of the two child protection agencies, human review, iCloud Photos has to be turned on, 30 picture threshold), but I just can’t stomach it. It’s essentially a backdoor, it’s able to be abused, and Apple no longer has the excuse that they can’t do something if forced by a government.

The fact that pretty much all of the major privacy advocates are saying “stop! This is dangerous” only makes me feel worse. I would’ve been more okay with this whole thing if Apple just did scanning of images only on the iCloud server, even if it was more privacy invasive, because at least I already was expecting my privacy to be invaded if my content is on someone else’s server. But when it’s baked into the OS, it just doesn’t sit right with me.

I’ve already been in the process of moving to more privacy-driven software anyways, but maybe this was the reality check and kick in the butt I needed to really kick that process into gear. I feel like I put too much trust into Apple now.

Kinfolk! Totally agree and in the same boat. In the process of migrating away now too and it’s not easy— but it’s happening. Apple has went too far now and foreshadowed far too much of what’s to come and they’ve picked their side. I was actually supporting them more-so lately(past several years) since it seemed they’d make some positive moves on the privacy front and appeared as thought they could be picking the right side.

This has completely shaken my trust in them and their refusal to even reconsider at all, instead only doubling down practically telling us we’re holding it effing wrong again…. That was the nail in the coffin for any trust I had in them at all, however small. If their hands were forced by secret courts or alphabet agencies, they should be up front about it. Without it, they’re complicit and just as bad.

Good luck on your OS eXodus. Stand firm ✊

fightforthefuture.org
fightforthefuture.org

 

[nickdalzell1]

This wouldn't be the first time Tim did anything related to SJW. Just the last straw. Aside that, there have been some rather questionable UI designs and persistant issue with iOS, macOS, and tvOS that were already adding up. It's obvious Apple no longer caters to 'the crazy ones' anymore.

 

[Moto68000]

I will switch to Linux too. I really don't like the 'we have to change the world for the better' mentality from Apple. Just sell me your computers and leave me alone. I want to control what my computer is doing and I don't need spying software on MY device....
It doesn't matter to me if Apple decides to stop their CSAM scanning plans. I don't trust them anymore..

 

[nickdalzell1]

Legislating morality will never work to begin with. First, you need a critical mass of support to get a law to properly pass. Prohibition failed for the simple fact that demand for alcohol was high. "The war on Drugs" also failed hard.

I'm vegan, but even I am not foolish to accept a legislation of veganism. That would only increase the anger of non-vegans. You can't legislate it. It will fail. As Gary Francione says, "You shut down one slaughtehouse, 10 more open up or 10 more increase production"

The only way this crap will end is when enough people support it first and help pass a proper law. Some folks really need to re-watch Schoolhouse Rock, specifically 'I'm just a bill'. Sadly, laws seem to be passed in the dead of the night, or technology spyware passes review, and despite a mass 'NO!' from the people, it never gets repealed. That isn't how government is supposed to work! It's by the people, for the people, it's we the people, not we the government. Anything else is a dictatorship.

 

[PBG4 Dude]

any social justice action that begins with 'won't anyone please think of the children/animals/hungry ethiopians/homeless/etc' always ends up being a ploy to get the foot into the door. Once that happens, you can't slam it in their face when it does something more nefarious later on.

As the song says, "One thing...One thing leads to another!"

Or as Pink Floyd said it better, "Another brick in the wall"

Wow, never expected a reference to The Fixx here. Nice.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

So disabling iCloud Photos is just too hard or complicated to do? Nobody is forcing you to use iCloud. No scanning takes place if you don't use iCloud Photo Library.

For now....and clearly that was a lie--they were also scanning email...

 

[jseymour]

I will switch to Linux too. ...
It doesn't matter to me if Apple decides to stop their CSAM scanning plans. I don't trust them anymore..

That's kind of what's happening in our home, except we're staying with Linux instead of switching to Mac. And the decision's final, regardless of what Apple does at this point.

That isn't how government is supposed to work! It's by the people, for the people, it's we the people, not we the government. Anything else is a dictatorship.

The problem is a government like ours only works if you have an educated, informed, and engaged electorate. None of those conditions obtain any longer. Our "education" system is a joke, our "news" does not inform, and the electorate is happy as long as it has its bread and circuses.

 

[pdoherty]

People have, over the last few decades, been ever-more-successfully put into perpetual ‘survival mode’ and most have little time/energy to pursue issues like this.

 

[hn333]

I will switch to Linux too. I really don't like the 'we have to change the world for the better' mentality from Apple. Just sell me your computers and leave me alone. I want to control what my computer is doing and I don't need spying software on MY device....
It doesn't matter to me if Apple decides to stop their CSAM scanning plans. I don't trust them anymore..

LOL Linux.

 

[Pummers]

During my dig into this most of the worlds known CSAM material resides in the EU yet Apple is rolling this out in the US. That is kind of odd.

Any references that you can provide?

 

[Pummers]

There are some states in the USA with an extremely low age of consent, but that's all I know.

There might be some middle east countries which marry out kids to adults, again, not sure how true it is.

Uhhh... maybe a little closer than you think.

 

[Mercury7]

Kinda shocked to see only 15% stand up, 85% embracing big brother… good luck with that…. You actually had the ability to stop it

 

[dk001]

This was an interesting post.

 

[Pummers]

And now for something to lighted the mood. A reminder that to enjoy Linux or Unix, it doesn't have to be Apple.

Not sure if this link has been posted before but timely as well.

 

[jseymour]

LOL Linux.

LOL What?

I've been using various flavors of Linux on servers, desktops, and laptops ever since Red Hat 5 in 1997. I've never used MS-Windows, other than as-required to support my job. I've never used Mac OS, save for a very brief period, on a Mac laptop, sometime in ±2000 (?) and now likely never will.

 

[Pummers]

Has anyone tried syncing SMS from Android to Linux? Found this post and wanted to see if anyone knows how well it compares to iMessage.

How to Send and Receive SMS Messages from Linux?

Short Message Service (SMS) is commonly known among people who owned mobile devices, especially because this was the traditional communication solution for GSM-enabled phones. However, there are instances wherein we send SMS messages through Linux PC. Continue to read and learn to set up SMS...

linuxhint.com

 

[Jayson A]

Okay, serious question:

Could Apple enable End to End Encryption without scanning at all? Could they get in trouble for hosting such images if there's no way for them to know if the images are there? It's like Schrodinger's cat... the photos are both non-existing and existing at the same time. You can't tell because you can't get in to see them.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Okay, serious question:

Could Apple enable End to End Encryption without scanning at all? Could they get in trouble for hosting such images if there's no way for them to know if the images are there? It's like Schrodinger's cat... the photos are both non-existing and existing at the same time. You can't tell because you can't get in to see them.

That's what they should have done. They couldn't get in trouble because they wouldn't have knowledge of any user data--CSAM or otherwise. E2EE would have kept us all as customers and also gotten the feds off their back because there is nothing they would have been able to do.

 

[Jayson A]

That's what they should have done. They couldn't get in trouble because they wouldn't have knowledge of any user data--CSAM or otherwise. E2EE would have kept us all as customers and also gotten the feds off their back because there is nothing they would have been able to do.

I'm all for that. Unfortunately, I think they've spent too much money and effort to implement this new system too turn around and cancel it.

However, I obviously don't have a problem with the new system either. It was just a question out of curiosity.

 

[Jayson A]

This was an interesting post.

I started watching that video (I didn't finish it), I think he made it before knowing all the facts. He thinks it's only controlled by the NCMEC, but it's not. He also doesn't mention the second server-side check which is a very important step in reducing the likely hood of 30 false positives being submitted for human review.

It boils down to this. If you do not possess any illegal photos, then you WILL have 100% privacy. However, if all the checking was done directly on Apple's servers, then ALL of your photos would be open for review and they could scan for whatever they want or look through your personal photos whenever they want. That seems way less privacy focused to me. Am I wrong?