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Will you leave the Apple ecosystem because of CSAM?
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18 U.S.C. § 2258A - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 18. Crimes and Criminal Procedure § 2258A. Reporting requirements of electronic communication service providers and remote computing service providers
(f) Protection of privacy. --Nothing in this section shall be construed to require an electronic communication service provider or a remote computing service provider to--
(1) monitor any user, subscriber, or customer of that provider;
(2) monitor the content of any communication of any person described in paragraph (1); or
(3) affirmatively seek facts or circumstances described in sections (a) and (b).
The problem is that someone fought this under the 4th amendment when it was Microsoft and Onedrive. The court sided with the police and said 4th amendment protections did not apply because it wasn't the government that did it--it was a private company (Microsoft). And the second main reason was that the defendant signed the EULA.
So probably that person would lose...
That’s the ticker … the NCMEC is 90%+ funded by the DOJ. This one may go a bit different.
This is on device where as the MS / One Drive was Server side if I remember correctly. Also why I am curious on what Apple’s new EULA is going to read.
Y'know, I'm a little confused here.
What the **** does marriage under 18 have to do with child pornography?
What the **** does marriage under 18 have to do with child pornography?
For me, the whole encryption thing is irrelevant. I don't work for the CIA. I don't need things encrypted. Apple telling me that we will encrypt your things after we scan means nothing to me. I don't want my personal devices spying on me.
I don't believe Apple because what they are saying doesn't make sense. If you are going to warn the perps on how not to be caught, what is the point? And someone else at the Times has pointed out, all the perps have to do is print out the images and then take pictures of the printouts. There are any number of ways to get around this so called system, if it works the way Apple has suggested.
So as someone else has pointed out, this isn't to help you or "the children". It is to help Apple, using your phone to do the detection and processing, and keeping it off their servers so that they don't have to go to the trouble of scanning. And by letting the predators know how not to be caught, they are serving them!
Because people under 18 are children, minors, and it is hypocritical to be against one (child porn) and okay with the other. Child marriage means adult men having forced sex with children, minors, against their will.
I'm currently pretty much out of the Apple world, apart from having some ancient Macs that now get little use. (These are Classic MacOS era machines--who needs Big Sur when they can run System 7.5?! LOL) But I sometimes thought of going back to Apple for various reasons. Most recently, I've been seriously tempted by the M1 Macs...
Note that I say sometimes thought, not sometimes think. Because I've lost my enthusiasm. I won't say "never"--but I'll say the the difficulty of selling me anything current from Apple has increased. Dramatically increased.
Note that I say sometimes thought, not sometimes think. Because I've lost my enthusiasm. I won't say "never"--but I'll say the the difficulty of selling me anything current from Apple has increased. Dramatically increased.
Same here
Same here im moving everything to my synology NAS, the only difference is you have to take ownership of your own backups.
Taking ownership of everything is a benefit in my book. It's my phone, my NAS, my Linux, themed my way. Problem is people these days can't grasp it! Everything has to be told to them, done for them. I'm glad Linux remains the geek-friendly complicated thing it is. If it ever got mainstream and dumbed down, there wouldn't be anything left to go to as an alternative!
Couple this with Covid being never-ending, the future of 2020+ doesn't look nearly as bright as it did from my 2010 perspective where updates and upgrades actually improved stuff.
Couple this with Covid being never-ending, the future of 2020+ doesn't look nearly as bright as it did from my 2010 perspective where updates and upgrades actually improved stuff.
I encourage everyone to read all the articles on this site….quit being stupid … it’s just ridiculous to see people say they won’t leave Apple over this, nuts https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/...tos-messages-turns-young-people-privacy-pawns
p.s. Yes I know this atticle is talking about the other program Apple is rolling out… but it’s a pattern of the nanny state just the same
p.s. Yes I know this atticle is talking about the other program Apple is rolling out… but it’s a pattern of the nanny state just the same
It's not holding water for another reason: If the whole point of that is increased security for the customer, where's the announcement that, coincident with device-side CSAM scanning, there'd also be E2EE?
Really? I thought their neural hash algorithms were much more robust than that. I'm sorry if I missed it, but do you have a pointer to the story that discusses that?
Of course there are. I thought of a couple, myself. (Don't know if they'd work and I'm not going to discuss them for that and the obvious reason.)
The very best light that can be put on this, the least nefarious explanation, is Apple's out to win social justice points.
We were actually this >< close to pulling the trigger on the first of two Macs.
If they truly do put that scanning stuff into any of iOS, iPadOS, or MacOS: I will. Never. I will not own devices with spyware in therm. Even if they don't it's still quite unlikely.
I totally agree with your sentiment but do you really think Apple doesn't have the capability to scan your device once you switch off iCloud photos? I know they're saying they won't scan but I can't see any way how this would make it impossible for them to do it. I think it's basically them saying we won't do these scans if you turn off iCloud.
You seem knowledgeable on this so maybe something in iOS prevents them from doing the scan after iCloud is off?
I read this. How is it ridiculous when people say they won't leave Apple? Where can they go? Short of going to a flip phone and paying cash for everything there aren't many choices out there. Apple knows this and that's why they're doing it. Maybe we should go more off the grid as people say but it's not easy to do.
Why I’m curious on the upcoming EULA.
I suspect if it gets to that point, it will be a while till we know.
With the current setup it's impossible to have full E2E encryption. If a match is found someone at Apple downloads and views the suspected CSAM photo and compares it with a low rez version from a gov database. With E2E encryption even if the device flagged all your photos they would not be able to decrypt them without you supplying the encryption key.
Nope. In fact: I wouldn't even take an OS update to remove that restriction on the scanner. All it would take is them flipping what's known in software as a "flag" or "semaphore" and the restriction would be gone.
End of the day, the more I learn about this whole Apple new setup, the more uncomfortable I feel.
Well, I'd assumed that if the on-device CSAM scanner got a hit the encrypted transfer wouldn't take place until Apple had had a chance to check the image(s).
You don’t think Apple reads this site… just gave them the green light, screwed all of us, People still don’t understand the threshold being crossed here… even google does not do this, but they probably will after seeing how fast apples base rolled over, thank you sir may I have another
That's kind of what I suspected. I really like them to be able to catch CSAM but don't want a backdoor in the iPhone. Apple has always complied with whatever countries laws they do business in (Completely understandable) but if a government asked for them to access an iPhone they would just say it was impossible for them to do that. Now it won't be so I think they would comply. I really think the whole CSAM is just a way for Apple to do this because of pressure from governments without looking like the bad guy. Yes we gave China access to iPhones but think of the children...
Actually, it might not be their intent, but Android does indeed tell you permissions before app install, especially if you bypass Play Store and install the APK yourself. Just some of Google Play Services' permissions:
permissions to access body sensors, calendar, camera, contacts, microphone, phone, SMS, and storage.
permissions to access body sensors, calendar, camera, contacts, microphone, phone, SMS, and storage.
You seriously think Apple is going to make a cooperate decision based on one (my) forum posts? LMAO
They base this on hours of meetings and discussion in board rooms. I bet the total hours of this topic adds up to DAYS of discussion in video and in person meetings. They analyzed and came up with every possible outcome. I bet they discussed what percentage of iPhone users would switch to another phone. Apple might scroll through some of these threads but nothing I've said would be new to them. It's not like Tim is reading this and saying "Oh man people are going to switch from iPhone... I didn't think of that possibility". If you ever get that high level access to a corporation the meetings will drive you insane!
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