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Will you leave the Apple ecosystem because of CSAM?

Will you leave the Apple ecosystem because of CSAM?

  • Yes, immediately

    Votes: 42 4.0%

  • Yes, but I’ll keep using iOS 14 for a while

    Votes: 134 12.9%

  • No, but I’ll turn off iCloud (or iCloud Photos)

    Votes: 130 12.5%

  • No, I’m totally fine with CSAM Scanning

    Votes: 446 42.9%

  • (Newly added option) No, I won’t leave but I’m not comfortable with it

    Votes: 288 27.7%
  • Total voters
    1,040
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russell_314 said:
You seriously think Apple is going to make a cooperate decision based on one (my) forum posts? LMAO

They base this on hours of meetings and discussion in board rooms. I bet the total hours of this topic adds up to DAYS of discussion in video and in person meetings. They analyzed and came up with every possible outcome. I bet they discussed what percentage of iPhone users would switch to another phone. Apple might scroll through some of these threads but nothing I've said would be new to them. It's not like Tim is reading this and saying "Oh man people are going to switch from iPhone... I didn't think of that possibility". If you ever get that high level access to a corporation the meetings will drive you insane!
Click to expand...
The board rooms are probably like most Department of Natural Resources meetings about hunting lately. They intentionally make sure that 6 out of the 8 members are pro-hunting so the vote always passes in favor of hunting. I wouldn't doubt the same happens at Apple involving just about each controversial decision they make. Intentional bias in favor.

This won't EOL Apple at all. The 'masses' are too ignorant and stupid and comply no matter what. We're just told to 'get used to it'. Doesn't really matter if it's UI design, spyware or the like. People are too weak to stand up anymore. We are basically seeing the true results of the 'everyone wins' 'everybody gets a trophy' mindset coupled with most tools and lawn equipment being made of plastic. We are becoming weaker each generation. Easy win for government overreach.
 
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Sadly, many people don't care or don't even know. Companies today thrive on customer ignorance. If a few complain, the response is 'did you read the EULA?!'

I actually do nowadays, but luckily none of what I use has an EULA. There's the GNU Public License, which I have read, though. I do miss the era when companies actually wanted to please the customers, and only did things if enough customer demand existed for it. I am not sure what happened to free market economics but what I learned in 1998 no longer applies, regrettably.
 
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russell_314 said:
You seriously think Apple is going to make a cooperate decision based on one (my) forum posts? LMAO

They base this on hours of meetings and discussion in board rooms. I bet the total hours of this topic adds up to DAYS of discussion in video and in person meetings. They analyzed and came up with every possible outcome. I bet they discussed what percentage of iPhone users would switch to another phone. Apple might scroll through some of these threads but nothing I've said would be new to them. It's not like Tim is reading this and saying "Oh man people are going to switch from iPhone... I didn't think of that possibility". If you ever get that high level access to a corporation the meetings will drive you insane!
Click to expand...
Not your post particular, but the over all acceptance… I have zero doubt they watch all the forums and file reports on what they are seeing…. It’s not rocket science, they are keeping tabs on the media, on subscriptions… all of it on a daily basis…. If the push back was enough they would change course. They are losing some customers over this but not enough yet to make them backtrack or they would have done it this week. So yes… the 49% that said they were completely fine with it plus the other 30% that said they still wouldn’t leave in spite of it pretty much is a surrender of all privacy going forward… once the spyware is on the phone none of you will ever know what changes are made. Only option is to not have the device
 
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jseymour said:
I suspect he was speaking more to the vote tallies, where nearly 50% of respondents are completely ok with their spyware.
Click to expand...
I see what you're saying but TBH I suspect they already knew that too. People sometimes behave like sheep. This "give up some of your freedoms or privacy in exchange for more security" mantra isn't new and many people support it. I'm more talking about the psychology of the human mind rather than politics. Apple has been working on this for at least a year and I suspect several years. Probably it was started after the US government demanded they unlock certain iPhones that were used in crimes. Apple may be a huge corporation but if a large government, AKA USA or China decided to take them on they would lose badly. I think they did what they felt was necessary to survive
 
russell_314 said:
You seriously think Apple is going to make a cooperate decision based on one (my) forum posts? LMAO

They base this on hours of meetings and discussion in board rooms. I bet the total hours of this topic adds up to DAYS of discussion in video and in person meetings. They analyzed and came up with every possible outcome. I bet they discussed what percentage of iPhone users would switch to another phone. Apple might scroll through some of these threads but nothing I've said would be new to them. It's not like Tim is reading this and saying "Oh man people are going to switch from iPhone... I didn't think of that possibility". If you ever get that high level access to a corporation the meetings will drive you insane!
Click to expand...

Corps tend to either over analyze or under analyze (take for granted). Seen that more than a few times.
I suspect there has been a bit of re-analysis at Apple based on the public outcry over this. Whether that changes their stance is another thing.
 
Mercury7 said:
Not your post particular, but the over all acceptance… I have zero doubt they watch all the forums and file reports on what they are seeing…. It’s not rocket science, they are keeping tabs on the media, on subscriptions… all of it on a daily basis…. If the push back was enough they would change course. They are losing some customers over this but not enough yet to make them backtrack or they would have done it this week. So yes… the 49% that said they were completely fine with it plus the other 30% that said they still wouldn’t leave in spite of it pretty much is a surrender of all privacy going forward… once the spyware is on the phone none of you will ever know what changes going forward. Only option is to not have the device
Click to expand...
The only push back that would make them consider anything would be very low sales of the iPhone 13 and low adoption of iOS 15. The rest is just discussion and on the other side is very powerful government officials. Apple is more scared of them than angry customers.
 
russell_314 said:
I see what you're saying but TBH I suspect they already knew that too. People sometimes behave like sheep. This "give up some of your freedoms or privacy in exchange for more security" mantra isn't new and many people support it. I'm more talking about the psychology of the human mind rather than politics. Apple has been working on this for at least a year and I suspect several years. Probably it was started after the US government demanded they unlock certain iPhones that were used in crimes. Apple may be a huge corporation but if a large government, AKA USA or China decided to take them on they would lose badly. I think they did what they felt was necessary to survive
Click to expand...
Don’t get me wrong…. I really really wanted them to reverse course because I didn’t want to leave…. But if they go through with this then they have lost me, they have actually lost 4 since I am the provider
 
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Mercury7 said:
Don’t get me wrong…. I really really wanted them to reverse course because I didn’t want to leave…. But if they go through with this then they have lost me, they have actually lost 4 since I am the provider
Click to expand...
I would LOVE to see Apple reverse course on this. If it was just about CSAM on iCloud they would have just scanned iCloud. You want to know a little secret (not really secret)... They were already scanning iCloud for CSAM before this. This is all about having access to the iPhone. They can't go back even if customers revolted and sales of the iPhone 13 were dismal. People will forget so even if that happens sales will recover with the iPhone 14. Governments won't forget. They will take down Apple. I think Apple is scared and they have reason to be scared. The two largest governments (USA and China) want a backdoor to the iPhone. It was going to happen sooner or later. It just happened sooner than people expected.
 
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russell_314 said:
I would LOVE to see Apple reverse course on this.
Click to expand...
So would I. If they did I might be able to see my way clear to staying with my iPhone, iPad, and Apple Watch. (The other stuff is already off the table, now and, probably, forever.)

Might. There are other reasons I would like to return to Android, so that may be inevitable no matter what Apple does now. Particularly if the Android ecosystem ever comes up with an acceptable smart watch.
 
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Apple (or any other company) has NEVER reversed course at all. Not for Antennagate, Bendgate, or even iOS 7+. To do so would admit to a mistake (companies hate to admit mistakes, just ask Boeing about the 737 MAX software) and reversing course is to tech reviewers 'killing progress' as heaven forbid anyone prefer android 2.3 to Android whatever it is now. Honestly. The phrase 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' is unheard of to anyone younger than 20 today.

Idiocracy, they live, and 1984 should be required reading/watching at schools these days.
 
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I will leave the ecosystem entirely. Wanted to buy a new iPhone, Apple Watch and Macbook, but now I won’t and will never buy anything from Apple ever again.
I really regret having spent so much money on the new iPad Pro and Airtags this year. I hope I can sell them for a reasonable price.

I am aware that Windows laptops aren’t the most privacy loving devices there are, but they only cost a fraction of what a Macbook costs. So why should I spend thousands on a device which does not respect the privacy of its user, when I can get a device that does not respect the privacy of its user for basically the half? Apple’s stance on privacy was basically what made me a customer. If they really go through with it, they lost at least me, even if they don’t care.
 
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nickdalzell1 said:
Actually, it might not be their intent, but Android does indeed tell you permissions before app install, especially if you bypass Play Store and install the APK yourself. Just some of Google Play Services' permissions:

permissions to access body sensors, calendar, camera, contacts, microphone, phone, SMS, and storage.
Click to expand...
This is because they now push OS updates through the play store and need access to all parts of the phone to install apps...but it is not good, that is true.
 
DonHS said:
I will leave the ecosystem entirely. Wanted to buy a new iPhone, Apple Watch and Macbook, but now I won’t and will never buy anything from Apple ever again.
I really regret having spent so much money on the new iPad Pro and Airtags this year. I hope I can sell them for a reasonable price.

I am aware that Windows laptops aren’t the most privacy loving devices there are, but they only cost a fraction of what a Macbook costs. So why should I spend thousands on a device which does not respect the privacy of its user, when I can get a device that does not respect the privacy of its user for basically the half? Apple’s stance on privacy was basically what made me a customer. If they really go through with it, they lost at least me, even if they don’t care.
Click to expand...
The good news is that the vast majority of people even on this site don't care about these changes, so reselling my macbooks should be easy.
 
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also leaving, buying whatever microsoft offers in october and selling my macbook m1 as a start, my hearing aids are only functional on iphone so i will keep my xr another year on ios 14 and then get pixel or a note next year, sell my ipad, since my tv is fairly new i will keep it

this really hit me, i actually understand what apple is doing and why they are doing it but it made realize like a smack in the forehead … apple is not my friend … apple does not give a ***** about my privacy … apple is using “my privacy” as a marketing gimmick to make cash, like every other large tech corp, fine, i will fight back in whatever small ways i can but keep eyes open … “trust no tech, secure your own privacy as best you can” is the now the prime directive

ps. privacy for the citizen in any meaningful way is almost certainly dead, there is a hideous asymmetry developing in privacy, big tech and government are vacuuming more of our data everyday and so far we are doing little to stop it or gain access to it or control it ...
 
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I've thought about it a lot and I wont leave. I don't care anymore. I have never had child pornography. Let them scan whatever they want from now on.
I'm still against it but there is nothing I can do.
 
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slomojoe said:
perfectly reasonable response on your part
your sentiment is what they are banking on
and you will be part of the vast majority of users
Click to expand...
Yep..enabler, the cost of freedom(and Privacy) is eternal vigilance, we will have to watch closely for now on …. Which other companies follow apples path…. Fortunately from what I can tell we can lock down more open operating systems…. Ie you don’t have to trust google but you do have to trust others that care about privacy…. They say the beauty of open systems is that if bad actors do emerge they can be corrected …. Anyway the point is we do have options… if microsoft goes too far we have Linux and if google goes too far we have multiple companies ready to lock them out through alternate android software
 
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