Will you leave the Apple ecosystem because of CSAM?

[Mercury7]

We could never know for sure before either.

You can't really have complete control of a device which is controlled by one company from the lowest hardware level through the operating system to the user interface. And most of the code from firmware to the operating system is closed code also.

At some level you have to trust Apple or you can't use their products and services.

I'm also not worried about the CSAM Detection System even in the future. There are technologies already in iOS today which are much more worrisome with regards to privacy and are much easier to misuse with small changes for surveillance.

i Have a feeling this disclosure is more of a c y a because it would have been discovered eventually, Also would imagine the new tos will read in precise legalese giving Apple cover for whatever this code is modified to look for in the future. But anyway… I think the EFF laid out the danger clearly for all to see and I think apple dismissing that does erode trust. i Would like to see the courts weigh in…. Although I think Apple is on firm legal ground for people who accept ios15, I think there may be a case for current owners that perhaps may miss some security updates or app compatibility due to not accepting it. I can see a judge finding harm….Apple is literally forcing people off of iCloud that don’t agree with this also… a case could be made that when you purchased the iPhone 12 you had a reasonable expectation icloud would be available without spyware being added to your device. This is based on 5gig of iCloud being included when you purchased the device…Apple is taking that away unless you agree to the spyware

 

[Mercury7]

Even if your not leaving…. At least sign the petition to send a message to Apple…. Please

Mass surveillance is not an acceptable crime-fighting strategy, no matter how well-intentioned the spying. If you’re upset about Apple’s recent announcement that the next version of iOS will install surveillance software in every iPhone, we need you to speak out about it.

Tell Apple: Don’t Scan Our Phones

Apple has abandoned its once-famous commitment to security and privacy. The next version of iOS will contain software that scans users’ photos and messages. Under pressure from U.S. law enforcement, Apple has put a backdoor into their encryption system. Sign our petition and tell Apple to stop...

act.eff.org

 

[twdawson]

Even if your not leaving…. At least sign the petition to send a message to Apple…. Please

Mass surveillance is not an acceptable crime-fighting strategy, no matter how well-intentioned the spying. If you’re upset about Apple’s recent announcement that the next version of iOS will install surveillance software in every iPhone, we need you to speak out about it.

Tell Apple: Don’t Scan Our Phones

Apple has abandoned its once-famous commitment to security and privacy. The next version of iOS will contain software that scans users’ photos and messages. Under pressure from U.S. law enforcement, Apple has put a backdoor into their encryption system. Sign our petition and tell Apple to stop...

act.eff.org

They will never listen or roll back this. I am in the process of leaving this echo system. I have been using macs for a long time but enough is enough.

 

[Mercury7]

They will never listen or roll back this. I am in the process of leaving this echo system. I have been using macs for a long time but enough is enough.

May be true but you have to at least try to get them to change this, there is hope til implementation… afterwards then yeah, no hope, at least add your voice to the Electronic Frontiers Foundation

 

[Jayson A]

They will never listen or roll back this. I am in the process of leaving this echo system. I have been using macs for a long time but enough is enough.

Oh no!

Anyway...

 

[twdawson]

Oh no!

Anyway...

Yeah whatever

 

[Jonas Silver]

By now, I believe all my pics have been scanned, big deal for it. How about when they scan your Mac to see if you have movies that were not purchased through the Apple Store, or books that your cousin gave you that .ePub? Will they report to someone?

 

[Jayson A]

By now, I believe all my pics have been scanned, big deal for it. How about when they scan your Mac to see if you have movies that were not purchased through the Apple Store, or books that your cousin gave you that .ePub? Will they report to someone?

There's no evidence of this

 

[Mega ST]

How big is the chance that they put this on infinite hold (as in abandon it) before or during the iPhone 13 announcement? Wouldn't this ruin all the iOS 15 and iPhone 13 media reporting and dominate more general audience discussions?

Unfortunately it feels like being part of something bigger not just one child abuse crime search feature.

 

[Jayson A]

How big is the chance that they put this on infinite hold (as in abandon it) before or during the iPhone 13 announcement? Wouldn't this ruin all the iOS 15 and iPhone 13 media reporting and dominate more general audience discussions?

Unfortunately it feels like being part of something bigger not just one child abuse crime search feature.

Ah, so it feels like something. Got it. Seems totally legit.

 

[Mega ST]

My impression is it would have been easy to u-turn on this saying apologies we missed your concerns having had only good intentions. We just got carried away by what is possible these days. We think about it and do it in a different way not storing anything on your device and respecting your privacy next time. We guarantee this.

They did not do it accepting some major risk to their "privacy minded" image. So there must be something more behind it if they are willing to pay this price? As they don't talk about it they try to just wait it out it seems.

 

[Mercury7]

Yeah it’s been speculated in a lot of forums that something else is going on, there is zero reason an intermediate server can’t be used to do the hashes…. So it does invite people to think it’s more nefarious because Apple has been pummeled for weeks when all they would have to say is no problem, we will keep the code off the device…. Because they did not do that I have little hope they will pause

 

[Jayson A]

Yeah it’s been speculated in a lot of forums that something else is going on, there is zero reason an intermediate server can’t be used to do the hashes…. So it does invite people to think it’s more nefarious because Apple has been pummeled for weeks when all they would have to say is no problem, we will keep the code off the device…. Because they did not do that I have little hope they will pause

95% of people won't care. Scan here, scan there. It's all the same.

 

[dk001]

95% of people won't care. Scan here, scan there. It's all the same.

Most people don’t know or don’t understand.
Still I suspect 95% is a tad high. Unless you have something linked that backs that value up?

 

[Jayson A]

Most people don’t know or don’t understand.
Still I suspect 95% is a tad high. Unless you have something linked that backs that value up?

No, 95% isn't high, it's probably more like 99%, but I gave it some wiggle room. The vast majority of users just click through ToS agreements and don't really care as long as their phone works properly.

Enable this? Yup, sure why not
Enable that? Yeah go ahead sure
Enable this too? Yup, whatever just get me to facebook

Even the majority of the people who voted in this thread are staying with Apple regardless and I'd say we're much more critical than the masses.

 

[Pummers]

Ah, so it feels like something. Got it. Seems totally legit.

Most people don’t know or don’t understand.
Still I suspect 95% is a tad high. Unless you have something linked that backs that value up?

No, 95% isn't high, it's probably more like 99%, but I gave it some wiggle room.
...

Even the majority of the people who voted in this thread are staying with Apple regardless and I'd say we're much more critical than the masses.

Seems totally legit, yes. 🙄

 

[Jayson A]

Seems totally legit, yes. 🙄

View attachment 1825728

Didn't I just say that we're not the majority here. I doubt all Apple users are on this forum.

 

[Mendota]

Ah, so it feels like something. Got it. Seems totally legit.

You know, I find it interesting how you never answer my responses that have pointed out how Apple has lied in the past. You haven't addressed the issue of their previous dishonesty. How about you explain how this "wonderful, perfect" company came to misuse it's users in the past, and why we should take their word now? The best indicator of future conduct is past conduct.

 

[MrTSolar]

IIRC, wasn't Antennagate "resolved" by tweaking how the bars appeared on the screen? I know that they re-designed the antennas on the 4s, but I'm pretty sure they simply tweaked the sensitivity of the bars and iPhones today still have the basic design flaw. My iPhone 12 can have signal in my pocket, but not when I'm holding it. I guess we're still "holding it wrong."

There's plenty of evidence of Apple overcharging for repairs (for things they actually offer a repair on), actively making it difficult to impossible for 3rd parties or device owners to repair their own devices through supplier contracts/US Customs/serialized parts, and purposefully limiting a device's capabilities to upsell a higher tier model (poor heatsink contact in the 2020 Intel MacBook Air, nerfed i9 MacBook Pros). It just looks like they're going to stomp on their customer base with software this time around instead of hardware.

Ah, so it feels like something. Got it. Seems totally legit.

Hmm. COVID passports were a feeling in 2020. They're reality now. Just saw on the news that yet another business near me is requiring proof of vaccination. Can you not see a bigger picture? This now makes at least the third decadal step in privacy infringements. First was the Patriot Act in 2001, then Big Data in 2009, and now on-device CSAM checking+COVID Passports in 2021.

By the way, I didn't vote in the poll because I'll be on iOS 13 until I exit fully. I no longer trust 14.

 

[TheColtr]

IIRC, wasn't Antennagate "resolved" by tweaking how the bars appeared on the screen? I know that they re-designed the antennas on the 4s, but I'm pretty sure they simply tweaked the sensitivity of the bars and iPhones today still have the basic design flaw. My iPhone 12 can have signal in my pocket, but not when I'm holding it. I guess we're still "holding it wrong."

There's plenty of evidence of Apple overcharging for repairs (for things they actually offer a repair on), actively making it difficult to impossible for 3rd parties or device owners to repair their own devices through supplier contracts/US Customs/serialized parts, and purposefully limiting a device's capabilities to upsell a higher tier model (poor heatsink contact in the 2020 Intel MacBook Air, nerfed i9 MacBook Pros). It just looks like they're going to stomp on their customer base with software this time around instead of hardware.


Hmm. COVID passports were a feeling in 2020. They're reality now. Just saw on the news that yet another business near me is requiring proof of vaccination. Can you not see a bigger picture? This now makes at least the third decadal step in privacy infringements. First was the Patriot Act in 2001, then Big Data in 2009, and now on-device CSAM checking+COVID Passports in 2021.

By the way, I didn't vote in the poll because I'll be on iOS 13 until I exit fully. I no longer trust 14.

Alright children, gather 'round. It's time to put on our tin foil hats.

 

[dk001]

Alright children, gather 'round. It's time to put on our tin foil hats.

All I have is Aluminum Foil. Will that work?

 

[Jayson A]

You know, I find it interesting how you never answer my responses that have pointed out how Apple has lied in the past. You haven't addressed the issue of their previous dishonesty. How about you explain how this "wonderful, perfect" company came to misuse it's users in the past, and why we should take their word now? The best indicator of future conduct is past conduct.

I realize Apple isn’t perfect but nothing is perfect. It’s just the world we live in. I’m not going to let a little thing like this spoil all the rest of the good things about it.

Life is too short to worry about little things that won’t affect the vast majority of users and if you’re stupid enough to have this kind of content on your phone, then you don’t deserve privacy.

As for the slippery slope stuff, I’ll believe it when I see it but there’s no reason for me to believe they’ll go down that path.

Also, I welcome apple to hash my photos. Whoopdie do. I have nothing that would ever cause a collision. Try to find it, I don’t care. It’s not there.

The way you all sound is that you’re scared that somethings gonna happen and someone at apple is going to have root access to everything on your devices. That’s just not the case. I believe everything they are telling us because nobody else has proof of anything else. They only have theories.

 

[dk001]

I realize Apple isn’t perfect but nothing is perfect. It’s just the world we live in. I’m not going to let a little thing like this spoil all the rest of the good things about it.

Life is too short to worry about little things that won’t affect the vast majority of users and if you’re stupid enough to have this kind of content on your phone, then you don’t deserve privacy.

As for the slippery slope stuff, I’ll believe it when I see it but there’s no reason for me to believe they’ll go down that path.

Also, I welcome apple to hash my photos. Whoopdie do. I have nothing that would ever cause a collision. Try to find it, I don’t care. It’s not there.

The way you all sound is that you’re scared that somethings gonna happen and someone at apple is going to have root access to everything on your devices. That’s just not the case. I believe everything they are telling us because nobody else has proof of anything else. They only have theories.

You still miss the point; it isn’t about CSAM or It’s to protect the children. That is the excuse being leveraged By Apple.

If the worst case comes to pass, it will be too late and you apparently want to wait till it directly impacts you.

Your choice.
Best of luck.

 

[MrTSolar]

I wonder if Apple's move is related to this:

Australia: Unprecedented surveillance bill rushed through parliament in 24 hours. | Tuta

New Australian surveillance bill enables police to hack your device, collect or delete your data, and take over your social media accounts.

tutanota.com

 

[furious]

For me it’s the cost of apple products that pushes me to switch. This CSAM is just another cut. My laptop is now windows, I just wish there was a decent alternative to iOS so my phone and tablet could be moved away.