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pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
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14,579
New Hampshire
It is already possible to try it out in a virtual machine. I have an instance of Windows 11 running under VMware Player.

Great. I'll give it a shot. I've given up on macOS Virtual Machines for now, now that I have an M1 system. I have a KVM Catalina VM that I use when I want to run macOS on my Windows box. I like the UI changes in Windows 10 but I would not mind running only macOS on my desktop. With access to Windows instances via RDP of course.

I'm giving some consideration to running two Mac Mini M1s on the desktop and moving my Windows Desktop to service serving Windows 10 and Linux virtual machines to other systems.
 

DaveFromCampbelltown

macrumors 68000
Jun 24, 2020
1,790
2,896
It is already possible to try it out in a virtual machine. I have an instance of Windows 11 running under VMware Player.

You beat me to it. I also have a copy running under VMWare Fusion (the free version). It runs quite nicely, especially if you have the Virtual Machine sitting on a SSD.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,155
14,579
New Hampshire
The general public most certainly isn't going to do that.

It's what you'd do if you really want Windows 11 and your hardware can't jump through Microsoft's hoops. I can run current macOS operating systems on my 2008 Dell XPS Studio using Linux KVM as the newer hardware instructions are emulated by QEMU.

Packages like Sosumi are making it easier to access this technology.
 

AutomaticApple

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Nov 28, 2018
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Massachusetts
It's what you'd do if you really want Windows 11 and your hardware can't jump through Microsoft's hoops. I can run current macOS operating systems on my 2008 Dell XPS Studio using Linux KVM as the newer hardware instructions are emulated by QEMU.

Packages like Sosumi are making it easier to access this technology.
My point still stands though.
 

DaveFromCampbelltown

macrumors 68000
Jun 24, 2020
1,790
2,896
Using a Fusion Drive isn't bad after all? How's the speed? I don't think I've ever owned a Mac with a Fusion Drive, but I could be wrong.

Not to mention that they're finally going to put it in the Microsoft Store...

Microsoft Teams 2.0 will cut memory usage in half.

The speed isn't too bad
Here are some examples of loading large applications the first time after boot up (after that it's cached, so they load much faster)

Word on HDD – 5 seconds
Word on SSD – 3 seconds
LibreOffice on HDD – 8 seconds
LibreOffice on SSD – 3 seconds
WPS Office on HDD – 5 seconds
WPS Office on SSD – 2.5 seconds

In general, from this small sample, large apps load in about twice the time from a Hard Disk Drive as they do from a Solid State Drive.

Compare that to Word on a Mac HDD under Yosemite (macOS 10.10) which would take up to 12 seconds to load the first time.
 

AutomaticApple

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Nov 28, 2018
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The speed isn't too bad
Here are some examples of loading large applications the first time after boot up (after that it's cached, so they load much faster)

Word on HDD – 5 seconds
Word on SSD – 3 seconds
LibreOffice on HDD – 8 seconds
LibreOffice on SSD – 3 seconds
WPS Office on HDD – 5 seconds
WPS Office on SSD – 2.5 seconds

In general, from this small sample, large apps load in about twice the time from a Hard Disk Drive as they do from a Solid State Drive.

Compare that to Word on a Mac HDD under Yosemite (macOS 10.10) which would take up to 12 seconds to load the first time.
Do you think Apple should create a proper successor to the Fusion Drive?
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777

AutomaticApple

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A Fusion drive is fine if you have a lot of RAM. I use a Late 2009 iMac with a HDD. Runs fine, as long as everything is cached in RAM.
Would it make sense for there to be a proper successor to the Fusion Drive then?
Nothing is wrong with PWA. But you can’t build truly native apps with them that access system level features
That's good for cross-compatibility across a variety of platforms.

Also, PWAs can have system integration, most notably in Windows and Chrome OS.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,155
14,579
New Hampshire
Would it make sense for there to be a proper successor to the Fusion Drive then?

That's good for cross-compatibility across a variety of platforms.

Also, PWAs can have system integration, most notably in Windows and Chrome OS.

It's very hard to tell because stuff happens like shortages or surplus. So sometimes it makes sense to use HDDs and sometimes SSDs. Cost per GB, reliability, longevity, heat output are all factors. I didn't change the HDD in the iMac because I didn't want to take the screen off nor did I want to pay for the OWC thermal sensor.

Other factors are ports. The Late 2009 iMac has USB 2.0 and Firewire. I tried using an external SSD but it was meh for improvement. If I had a newer iMac with USB 3.0, then I'd go for it.

Some people want a media server which may have a ton of storage that is used infrequently. I think that an HDD would be more attractive here.

So it depends on the use case.
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
Would it make sense for there to be a proper successor to the Fusion Drive then?

That's good for cross-compatibility across a variety of platforms.

Also, PWAs can have system integration, most notably in Windows and Chrome OS.
PWAs are cool, but limited If you want to build a truly native experience. There is nothing more to be said. MS really had a glorious idea with native HTML/js apps and simply lost interest in favor of other things
 

AutomaticApple

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PWAs are cool, but limited If you want to build a truly native experience. There is nothing more to be said. MS really had a glorious idea with native HTML/js apps and simply lost interest in favor of other things
Native is going out of style in favor of something more cross-platform.
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
Native is going out of style in favor of something more cross-platform.
Native will always be a thing for certain types of software. Like the Xbox app that’s build with that react native workaround now for example (afaik). You simply can’t do that with a PWA. Lots of use cases work fine with Webapps of course.
 

AutomaticApple

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Native will always be a thing for certain types of software. Like the Xbox app that’s build with that react native workaround now for example (afaik). You simply can’t do that with a PWA. Lots of use cases work fine with Webapps of course.
We will see what happens once PWA evolves.
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
We will see what happens once PWA evolves.
Unless they open up web browsers like crazy nothing will happen. PWAs are websites that somewhat work offline but that’s it.
The ideas of WebOS and later Windows 8 were fantastic. But for now the dream is dead. These weren’t cross platform solutions of course, I think the closest we got yet is Electron and React Native is growing, too.
 

boswald

macrumors 65816
Jul 21, 2016
1,311
2,192
Florida
With that recent TPM “requirement” fiasco? Doubt it. For one, people don’t want to throw away good computers for something they’ve never heard of. You can get a TPM chip, of course, but you know the scalpers will mark them up and rip off the clueless. This whole thing feels like Vista all over again, but It’s still early. They could come to their senses (but I doubt it).
 

boswald

macrumors 65816
Jul 21, 2016
1,311
2,192
Florida
Doubt it.

Here's hoping they announce the death of the Windows Registry. Now if it's a new kernel based off BSD like macOS. With something like Carbon for legacy software. Well that'd be a head scratcher. I just can't picture MS ever being that bold to dump the Registry and NT.

As for a new GUI. That's got me worried. Windows 8 was a mess. They really love to **** things up. Whether I love it or hate it. I'll have to use it. At least for a while to learn the ropes. Just so I can help clients when they have issues with a new computer. Without looking like an idiot. Not knowing where MS hid the settings. When on site.
They’re figuratively buying “courage” from Apple and trying to take the same big risks. However, since the entire world is based on Windows software, they can’t afford mistakes like Apple can. Even little ones.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,155
14,579
New Hampshire
They’re buying “courage” from Apple and trying to take the same big risks. However, since the entire world is based on Windows software, they can’t afford mistakes like Apple can. Even little ones.

You mean like requiring CPUs newer than 2018 for Windows 11?
 

AutomaticApple

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Nov 28, 2018
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Unless they open up web browsers like crazy nothing will happen. PWAs are websites that somewhat work offline but that’s it.
The ideas of WebOS and later Windows 8 were fantastic. But for now the dream is dead. These weren’t cross platform solutions of course, I think the closest we got yet is Electron and React Native is growing, too.
That's a very basic idea of what a PWA is. Web browsers are already open-source.
With that recent TPM “requirement” fiasco? Doubt it. For one, people don’t want to throw away good computers for something they’ve never heard of. You can get a TPM chip, of course, but you know the scalpers will mark them up and rip off the clueless. This whole thing feels like Vista all over again, but It’s still early. They could come to their senses (but I doubt it).
Let's wait and see what happens before jumping the gun. Microsoft said that they're considering allowing Windows 11 support for 7th generation Intel processors and 1st generation Ryzen processors.
 
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