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pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,133
14,565
New Hampshire
With that recent TPM “requirement” fiasco? Doubt it. For one, people don’t want to throw away good computers for something they’ve never heard of. You can get a TPM chip, of course, but you know the scalpers will mark them up and rip off the clueless. This whole thing feels like Vista all over again, but It’s still early. They could come to their senses (but I doubt it).

That's exactly what happened. They went from about $22 to about $50. My motherboard can do TPM or I can buy a chip to do it. Or I can run it in a Virtual Machine. Why make things so difficult on your customers? The suspicion is that Microsoft got together with OEMs to make this requirement to sell more hardware.
 

AutomaticApple

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Nov 28, 2018
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Massachusetts
That's exactly what happened. They went from about $22 to about $50. My motherboard can do TPM or I can buy a chip to do it. Or I can run it in a Virtual Machine. Why make things so difficult on your customers? The suspicion is that Microsoft got together with OEMs to make this requirement to sell more hardware.
Setting the conspiracy theories aside, maybe they're just tired of the crazy amount of malware that infects Windows?
 
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grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
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777
That's a very basic idea of what a PWA is. Web browsers are already open-source.

Let's wait and see what happens before jumping the gun. Microsoft said that they're considering allowing Windows 11 support for 7th generation Intel processors and 1st generation Ryzen processors.
That not a basic idea but the idea behind a PWA. The browser adds the functionality to “install” the website and when you launch it you see the website without the normal browser UI.
That involves some boilerplate that’s added in like 5 minutes to a webapp and of course offline support, that takes much more effort to accomplish.
But you simply can’t do things in a PWA that you can’t do in a website for now. It’s not like the extension api that exposes more possibilities to the developer.

Microsoft could of course proprietary functionality with elevated rights to PWAs installed through the Windows Store, but then that’s it with cross platform development again.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,133
14,565
New Hampshire
That's a very basic idea of what a PWA is. Web browsers are already open-source.

Let's wait and see what happens before jumping the gun. Microsoft said that they're considering allowing Windows 11 support for 7th generation Intel processors and 1st generation Ryzen processors.

My 2008 Dell XPS Studio with i7-920, 48 GB RAM run Windows 10 just fine. It also runs Linux and macOS just fine. 7th Gen? Are they serious?
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
Setting the conspiracy theories aside, maybe they're just tired of the crazy amount of malware that infects Windows?
That would of course be great news! But limiting Windows 11 to modern PCs only is still crazy to me. It’s basically the same system as before with a new theme.
It’s not like they started fresh like they did with NT and 2000…
 

AutomaticApple

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Microsoft could of course proprietary functionality with elevated rights to PWAs installed through the Windows Store, but then that’s it with cross platform development again.
Microsoft is now allowing PWAs to be packaged and put in the Microsoft Store, just as an FYI.
That not a basic idea but the idea behind a PWA. The browser adds the functionality to “install” the website and when you launch it you see the website without the normal browser UI.
That involves some boilerplate that’s added in like 5 minutes to a webapp and of course offline support, that takes much more effort to accomplish.
But you simply can’t do things in a PWA that you can’t do in a website for now. It’s not like the extension api that exposes more possibilities to the developer.
PWAs are much more than just a browser window without a tab bar.
Screenshot 2021-07-02 3.00.16 PM.png

My 2008 Dell XPS Studio with i7-920, 48 GB RAM run Windows 10 just fine. It also runs Linux and macOS just fine. 7th Gen? Are they serious?
The minimum requirements are not finalized. Wait until later this year before grabbing your pitchforks.
The biggest factor for malware these days is social engineering. They need to fix the customer.
That doesn't change the fact that malware is still a prevalent problem?
That would of course be great news! But limiting Windows 11 to modern PCs only is still crazy to me. It’s basically the same system as before with a new theme.
It’s not like they started fresh like they did with NT and 2000…
Again, wait until later this year before jumping to conclusions. Nothing is set in stone yet. Nothing is finalized.
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
A PWA is a browser window. It’s that simple. I think the Windows Store versions even used the old Edge until lately. Don’t know if this changed yet. As I said you have some boilerplate but basically every website can be a PWA
 
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AutomaticApple

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Nov 28, 2018
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A PWA is a browser window. It’s that simple. I think the Windows Store versions even used the old Edge until lately. Don’t know if this changed yet. As I said you have some boilerplate but in the end every website can be a PWA
It has changed. They now have to use the new Edge.

Again, a PWA is more than just a browser window. Did I not make myself clear enough?
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
It has changed. They now have to use the new Edge.

Again, a PWA is more than just a browser window. Did I not make myself clear enough?
What can you do in a PWA that’s not possible in a browser window? What you say simply isn’t correct unless something significantly changed recently. If you use chrome or new edge to install the PWA it’s a Chrome or Edge window with less ui. It works offline because of the manifest and service worker, but that’s currently the end of the story.
 

AutomaticApple

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What can you do in a PWA that’s not possible in a browser window? What you say simply isn’t correct unless something significantly changed recently. If you use chrome or new edge to install the PWA it’s a Chrome or Edge window with less ui. It works offline because of the manifest and service worker, but that’s currently the end of the story.
This blog brings up a few benefits.
 
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grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
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This blog brings up a few benefits.
Yep, it’s a webapp running in a browser window with less/a different ui, that works offline and does not need to download assets like JavaScript and Stylesheets on first opening if coded correctly. But it’s a website in a browser. You can’t access anything on the system that’s not available for websites, too. That’s why they are very limited right now and can’t replace native apps. That’s why electron is as popular as it is.
 

AutomaticApple

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Yep, it’s a webapp running in a browser window with less/a different ui, that works offline and does not need to download assets like JavaScript and Stylesheets on first opening if coded correctly. But it’s a website in a browser. You can’t access anything on the system that’s not available for websites, too. That’s why they are very limited right now and can’t replace native apps. That’s why electron is as popular as it is.
That's not what the blog post said whatsoever.
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
That's not what the blog post said whatsoever.
I give up, if you want to think that PWAs are more than webapps running in a browser so be it. This thread has been derailed by our discussion too much already. A PWA runs in a browser. Chromium basically, as Firefox and Safari don’t support installable PWAs (yet)

I love PWAs. It’s a great concept and there is tons of room for improvements. But right now they are not there yet
 

AutomaticApple

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I give up, if you want to think that PWAs are more than webapps running in a browser so be it. This thread has been derailed by our discussion too much already. A PWA runs in a browser. Chromium basically, as Firefox and Safari don’t support installable PWAs (yet)

I love PWAs. It’s a great concept and there is tons of room for improvements. But right now they are not there yet
Yeah, this argument has nothing to do with Windows 11 anyway.

Back on topic...
 
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DaveFromCampbelltown

macrumors 68000
Jun 24, 2020
1,781
2,877
Do you think Apple should create a proper successor to the Fusion Drive?

Ok, just some notes regarding the Apple Fusion Drive.

A Fusion Drive is a software-managed hybrid drive of a fast drive and a slow one, using Apple Driver software.
It is made up of two separate drives, typically a SSD and a HDD.
It is a competitor to hybrid drives which combine a fixed SSD of 8 ~ 16 GBytes and a HDD in a single unit, and is managed by drive's firmware.

My iMac has an internal Fusion Drive, with the SSD component being 128 Gbyte (much bigger than a hybrid drive) and a 1 TByte HDD.
I have also created an external Fusion Drive from a USB 3 Flash Drive and a USB 3 HDD.

A Fusion Drive only works under macOS. Consequently, when Bootcamp partitions a Fusion Drive to put Windows on it, it doesn't touch the SSD component, it only reduces the macOS partition of the HDD so that a Windows partition can be created. This means that when you install Windows under Bootcamp on a Fusion Drive, the Windows partition is HDD only.

Under previous versions of Windows (up to about Win 10 2004) it ran very slowly under Bootcamp, to the point it was nearly useless. Starting with, I think, 20H1, Microsoft improved the responsiveness of Windows on HDDs, so that it was at least bearable. Under Win 11, responsiveness has improved to the point that it is practical.

I think that Fusion Drives and Hybrid Drives are an interim measure until SSD prices drop some more.
A HDD is a complex mechanism, that must be costly to manufacture, even if the components are cheap.
A SSD is a simple mechanism, that must be inexpensive to manufacture. We just need for the price of the components to drop some more.
 

amgff84

macrumors 6502
Sep 22, 2019
379
301
I think I may switch back to MacOS full time. At this point, I have to purchase a newer computer. If I am going to update my computer I might as well buy a mac and just Bootcamp to game, or use a cloud gaming service (not a heavy gamer). I mainly stuck with Windows because I can get Windows to run on anything, so my older gaming setup works well. My only computer that runs the latest MacOS is a Hackintosh, and I can't run that with my triple monitor set up. All of my MacBooks are outdated, but still work fine. There is also the possibility of just running Windows 10 until 2025, as well as whatever hacks will be available to run Windows 11 on outdated hardware.
 

mwidjaya

macrumors 6502
Feb 25, 2004
426
561
Australia
There is also the possibility of just running Windows 10 until 2025, as well as whatever hacks will be available to run Windows 11 on outdated hardware.
Just sit tight until official release.

a. You can run preview on unsupported hardware right now. MS has relaxed joining the insider; allowing below specs HW.

b. Highly likely there would be "workarounds" to run Win11 on unsupported HW. Will be clear once MS release Win11 officially. Keep an eye out then.

c. Worst case, stay on Win10 until 2025.
 

DaveFromCampbelltown

macrumors 68000
Jun 24, 2020
1,781
2,877
Just sit tight until official release.

a. You can run preview on unsupported hardware right now. MS has relaxed joining the insider; allowing below specs HW.

b. Highly likely there would be "workarounds" to run Win11 on unsupported HW. Will be clear once MS release Win11 officially. Keep an eye out then.

c. Worst case, stay on Win10 until 2025.

d. If, by 2025, you don't want to buy a new PC, and you still can't run Win11 on your existing hardware, you can always install Linux.
 

amgff84

macrumors 6502
Sep 22, 2019
379
301
Just sit tight until official release.

a. You can run preview on unsupported hardware right now. MS has relaxed joining the insider; allowing below specs HW.

b. Highly likely there would be "workarounds" to run Win11 on unsupported HW. Will be clear once MS release Win11 officially. Keep an eye out then.

c. Worst case, stay on Win10 until 2025.

I can't download the insider preview on my system. I don't think I can anyways. I have a X79 board with an i7 3970x, and from what I gather, this will not run Windows 11 insider... I'll check again though.
 

raqball

macrumors 68020
Sep 11, 2016
2,323
9,573
I downloaded the insider preview yesterday and nope, I don't like it at all! Rolled back to Win 10 this afternoon.. When I saw the presentation I thought I was really going to like it but after using it for a day? Pass.....

Maybe by the time it releases it will be better...

I hope they offer the ability to change back to Win 10 Start Menu. If not then I'll prob stay on Win 10 for as long as I can..
 

mwidjaya

macrumors 6502
Feb 25, 2004
426
561
Australia
I hope they offer the ability to change back to Win 10 Start Menu. If not then I'll prob stay on Win 10 for as long as I can..

Why, I am not sure that there is anything special about Win10 Start Menu.

I don't even use it per se. I just hit Windows key and type first few letters of whatever I need.
 

AutomaticApple

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Nov 28, 2018
7,401
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Massachusetts
I downloaded the insider preview yesterday and nope, I don't like it at all! Rolled back to Win 10 this afternoon.. When I saw the presentation I thought I was really going to like it but after using it for a day? Pass.....

Maybe by the time it releases it will be better...

I hope they offer the ability to change back to Win 10 Start Menu. If not then I'll prob stay on Win 10 for as long as I can..
You're in luck!

Windows 11 will definitely be better by release. Let me just remind you that we only have access to the earliest insider build right now. Lots of things need to be refined/polished and more stuff needs to be added before release. We still have a couple of months to go.
I don't even use it per se. I just hit Windows key and type first few letters of whatever I need.
Yeah, I agree. It's largely useless nowadays.
 
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