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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
what is the difference between Unbuntu and POP?
(beside UI and what the intent of linux is for like graphics, just gaming etc)
without going into detail, Sunday is your day off!
Very good question, one that I'm probably not the best person to answer given that I'm a newbie myself.

Here's what the system 76 folks say
1638109178786.png

My take is that pop offers built in improvements that allow newbies like me to hit the ground running, and QOL updates already baked into the OS. Plus they've so far steered away from snaps - a application packaging technology that many people in Linux land don't like. They also have a curated store full of most of the stuff you'd want or need to install. Granted, you can get the same programs in ubuntu, just using the command line tool apt-get.
 
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DaveFromCampbelltown

macrumors 68000
Jun 24, 2020
1,790
2,893
So let me ask this - what issues arise if I disable TPM on my computer after the fact, i.e., windows 11 is already on the laptop?

The reason? Well, I've been trying a Linux challenge as seen in this forum and I want to keep at it, but at this point, I want my cake and eat it too, i.e., run windows 11 on one SSD and pop_os on another. Unforuntely, pop_os doesn't have a boot loader that TPM likes (but oddly enough ubuntu does). I know one option is to use ubuntu and that's on the table, but first let me ask this

I can't answer the question about TPM, as I don't have a computer with it (I am running off a late 2015 27" iMac). I installed Win 11 onto an external SSD using WinToUSB, and it runs just fine. I have Linux (Ubuntu and others) also installed onto external drives. I can switch between them using rEFInd boot manager, but that doesn't work any more for macOS, so I have to hold down the Option key to select macOS.

As for which Linux, I find myself coming back to Ubuntu. I have tried so many others, Linux Mint, Elementary, Pop_OS, Deepin, Zorin, Solus, Endeavour, Manjaro, Garuda, SUSE, and others I have forgotten. I started with YellowDog on a PowerPC Mac many years ago. Most recently I have been trying Fedora 35. This is nearly, but not quite, as suitable for me, as Ubuntu Mate. Others have different requirements.
My wife uses Win10 for work, but due to a couple of scares, I get her to switch over to Linux Mint after work for browsing, shopping, Facebook and the like. She has had no problems, and was able to adapt within minutes.

I think the problems arise in two areas --
  • Gaming. Modern games are high-resource, high-stress systems. They will work best on the system they are written for.
  • Switching OS. None of them (macOS, Win, Linux) really consider that sharing a computer is a viable option. Yes, some versions of Linux installer will recognise Windows, and set up a boot option for it, but none recognise macOS. Even those that used to recognise Windows (Linux Mint, I'm looking at you here...) no longer do so reliably.
 

nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
At least for me (and since I don't use an NVidea GPU) I've found GamePack (a lesser known Ubuntu-based distro) and Proton db work best for a vast majority of Steam games.

But if you had to ask me about what I consider my favorite distro, it would be VectorLinux 6 (Slackware-based) but it's sadly too outdated to be useful today. Was great back in 2010 though.
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
Does anyone know if one of the recent Windows 11 updates (release channel) changed something with external monitors?

It was one of the few really good features of 11, it remembered my external screen and how I use it with my ThinkPad. Now it shows all sorts of weird behaviors. It does not activate the external screen at all or it takes forever and multiple times reconnecting it. Applications end up all over the place, scaling breaks, internal laptop screen gets disabled... It's annoying as hell and didn't happen before.
 

MBAir2010

macrumors 604
May 30, 2018
6,975
6,354
there
finished with windows 11

i am downloading windows 10 (dell xps)
were the file, settings etc option was a good choice.
what bothered me was
-the taskbar not showing on the right
-hovering over a photo opened that, instead of selecting
-slow file explorer
-battery life? ha! more like get a life!
-a stick of strawberry bubble gum ejecting from the sd_card drive.

hopefully window is not like  and i can return to 10 just by downloading
i will find out in 10% percent.
 
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grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
I did a fresh install of 11 on my personal PC (Ryzen 3600) and I have to say that it runs much better than on my P53. That’s really annoying, I’ll guess I use that instead now working from home. I should have tried that earlier.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,144
7,120
I am having very bad performance issues with my Photoshop and Illustrator work since I upgraded to Windows 11 a month ago.
 

darkus

macrumors 6502
Nov 5, 2007
383
153
I’m not sure win 11 will convince anyone to switch from Mac. But I will say it’s a seriously impressive OS. Better then all the previous ones and a really solid base to start with and improve.

Windows ergonomics are superior in many ways. Their Achilles heel is they just don’t put enough energy into aesthetics. Part of that is they want to give off a this is serious business vibe, but I think they can afford to go full on svelte design and then you could see some converters
 

grandM

macrumors 68000
Oct 14, 2013
1,520
302
Hopefully Windows 11 is a free upgrade. Haven't paid for Windows since buying several Windows 8 keys direct from Microsoft for $15 in 2012 which got upgraded for free to Windows 10.
Hold on. You actually paid 15 USD to MS?
 

bensharma

macrumors newbie
Aug 10, 2013
29
8
Toronto
My take is that pop offers built in improvements that allow newbies like me to hit the ground running, and QOL updates already baked into the OS. Plus they've so far steered away from snaps - a application packaging technology that many people in Linux land don't like. They also have a curated store full of most of the stuff you'd want or need to install. Granted, you can get the same programs in ubuntu, just using the command line tool apt-get.

One big thing that they DO do differently from Ubuntu is, they offer the new kernels much sooner. Ubuntu 21.10 is running kernel 5.13, whereas Pop!_OS 21.10 is running kernel 5.15 already.
 
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mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,628
11,300
One benefit of Windows 11 that I've noticed is right-click open-with document doesn't annoyingly default to checking the box 'always use this app' like with 10. I just like the option to select an app from drop down list, for example, playing media with either MPC-BE or MPC-HC. Overall, still not a big enough difference to switch from tried and true 10. Even with Alder Lake I'd probably just disable E-core and run 10 to give time for 11 to fully bake.
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
I have the stardock suite of tools, and one of the utilities is start11 and I'm liking how that brings back some of the stuff that I miss in windows 10. It actually lets you change the start menu back to windows 10, or even windows 7 if that's your preference. I just made some minor changes to enhance the existing windows 11 start menu, nothing major
 
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nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
My mom just got a new laptop (HP Envy) running Windows 11 out the gate, and my stepfather's laptop got the update. Both actually prefer it over Windows 10. Their main complaint about Windows 10 were the 'ads' (live tiles) in the start menu cluttering up the interface. I can't say I disagree, as Windows 11's start menu is far cleaner in comparison. They took to it easily.

They did have major gripes about Windows 8, and to an extent Windows 10.
 

ackmondual

macrumors 68020
Dec 23, 2014
2,446
1,151
U.S.A., Earth
Only opinion I have is somebody in my circle of friends is going to continue sticking with MacOS.

Me, I'm on Windows 10 and would to stick with that as long as possible. With support for it running out in 2025, I hope that can get pushed back. I usually only upgrade Windows when I get a new PC, but I want mine to last at least 7 to 10 years (which is how long previous windows machines have lasted me). If not, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
 
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pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,155
14,579
New Hampshire
Only opinion I have is somebody in my circle of friends is going to continue sticking with MacOS.

Me, I'm on Windows 10 and would to stick with that as long as possible. With support for it running out in 2025, I hope that can get pushed back. I usually only upgrade Windows when I get a new PC, but I want mine to last at least 7 to 10 years (which is how long previous windows machines have lasted me). If not, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

I may be off Windows entirely by that time. I have one program that runs on Windows but it will also run on macOS Intel. It will also run on macOS Apple Silicon but performance is horrible and I expect Rosetta 2 will be removed by 2025. I'd just say re-evaluate things in 2024. A lot of people will be doing that.
 

DaveFromCampbelltown

macrumors 68000
Jun 24, 2020
1,790
2,893
I have installed Win 11 on both a late 2015" iMac (i5 processor) and a hand-me-down PC of indeterminate heritage (i3 processor).
You can do this from Windows using Hasleo WinToUSB or WinToHDD software. It is a free download, but you may have to pay if you want to install anything other than Win Home or Win Education.
From a Mac you can use Winclone from Twocanoes.
You can use WinToUSB for free if you only want to install Win 11 Home.
You will need to pay for Winclone if you want to install any version of Win 11.
  1. Download the Windows installer file from Microsoft
  2. Use the appropriate app depending on whether you are doing it from a Mac or Win
  3. Install to USB or HDD.
  4. Enjoy
In spite of the protestations from Microsoft, all the updates seem to download and install with no problems.
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
I can't believe they still didn't manage to fix the stupid taskbar. I want to have it on all monitors autohiding FFS, this is really annoying
 

nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
With support for it running out in 2025
I hope our work PC lasts that long before getting the Windows 11 update (my stepdad's PC got it recently) because our CCTV camera system only works on Internet Explorer, and there's literally zero way to use IE on Windows 11, meaning we would have to start ripping out ceilings to replace the cameras or find a way to keep that thing on Windows 10 forever. It was NOT a cheap camera system; Not sure why they depend on IE for it. Not exactly secure today. I keep reminding the boss that that PC will inevitably get Windows 11 (no way to turn off updates forever either that I can find) but she doesn't get it. She has blocked every browser except IE (because others tend to change the default for opening web links for some reason) and of course she's 'used to' IE and still uses Yahoo! Mail (I don't know why anyone does, it's like the AOL of mail these days) so she's old fashioned. I tell her over and over that 'Windows 11 doesn't let you use IE AT ALL' and 'That thing will get the update probably later this year' but it goes over her head. I don't look forward to my shop being all ripped apart to replace the cameras. We just got that new building done!
 

ackmondual

macrumors 68020
Dec 23, 2014
2,446
1,151
U.S.A., Earth
I hope our work PC lasts that long before getting the Windows 11 update (my stepdad's PC got it recently) because our CCTV camera system only works on Internet Explorer, and there's literally zero way to use IE on Windows 11, meaning we would have to start ripping out ceilings to replace the cameras or find a way to keep that thing on Windows 10 forever. It was NOT a cheap camera system; Not sure why they depend on IE for it. Not exactly secure today. I keep reminding the boss that that PC will inevitably get Windows 11 (no way to turn off updates forever either that I can find) but she doesn't get it. She has blocked every browser except IE (because others tend to change the default for opening web links for some reason) and of course she's 'used to' IE and still uses Yahoo! Mail (I don't know why anyone does, it's like the AOL of mail these days) so she's old fashioned. I tell her over and over that 'Windows 11 doesn't let you use IE AT ALL' and 'That thing will get the update probably later this year' but it goes over her head. I don't look forward to my shop being all ripped apart to replace the cameras. We just got that new building done!
There's a decent amount of stuff from commercial to government sectors that require IE since it's a "legacy thing". However, I thought that Edge would be "compatible enough" (some of those cases managed to migrate over there at least, but TBF, they likely had dedicated IT staff working on that)
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,155
14,579
New Hampshire
There's a decent amount of stuff from commercial to government sectors that require IE since it's a "legacy thing". However, I thought that Edge would be "compatible enough" (some of those cases managed to migrate over there at least, but TBF, they likely had dedicated IT staff working on that)

You can always run older versions in a VM.
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
There's a decent amount of stuff from commercial to government sectors that require IE since it's a "legacy thing". However, I thought that Edge would be "compatible enough" (some of those cases managed to migrate over there at least, but TBF, they likely had dedicated IT staff working on that)
Websites would probably work, it’s activex controls that only work in ie
 

nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
Any attempt to make the UNV camera system run in Edge (or another browser) just has a 'plugin not supported' show up, and nothing displays where the video feeds should. I'm guessing it uses Flash Player? I can't think of a plugin that only runs on IE but not Edge. I tried 'IE mode' but still get 'plugin no longer supported'.

The DVR has a monitor connected in the main office so at least that will work. Boss hardly shows anymore since daughter took over and uses her Mac, but it was super convenient to know who's doing what at any time. Her Mac won't view the pages either since there is no IE. She just hates the work PC as much as I do. It's got tons of malware posing as 'security/cleaning' software (an IE related mess I am sure) and is so hot you can't touch it, fans running full hilt, and freezes up often. It often is BSoD'd soon as we open the shop and we have to restart it each day.

Even my grandmother has better luck with Windows 10.
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
You can easily check what the website tries to load with the developer tools. And as I said, Edge doesn’t support ActiveX.
 
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