Windows 11

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

Why does everyone hate the registry?

Because it is --

1. Unsafe, easily breached, not inherently secure
2. Too large, complex and unstable
3. A design that was suitable thirty years ago for a small OS that was not connected to the Internet, and is no longer suitable for a large, complex OS that is connected to the Internet
4. The Windows OS implicitly trusts the Registry and its contents, which is inappropriate given point (1).

 

[nickdalzell1]

Well, one benefit to the registry is hacking it to totally disable Cortana or Windows Update, so there's that!

 

[AutomaticApple]

Yes, but one day it will/must happen, if they/we want to continue to use this system. Because it will get more and more problematic to maintain this mess.

Blame enterprise/government

 

[sgtaylor5]

There have been versions of malware that are fileless and only exist in the registry.

https://www.trendmicro.com/vinfo/us...nder-the-radar-understanding-fileless-threats

that’s why the registry has to be made more secure. Never going to happen, though.

 

[c0ppo]

In order to remove registry, MS would have to destroy backwards compatibility.
Not going to happen. And it's a shame, because that means Windows is stuck in the 90s.

 

[justin0712]

Will Windows 11 persuade anybody to switch over from macOS?

Microsoft will unveil 'the next generation of Windows' on June 24

Microsoft's Windows event is now official, and it's happening this month.

www.windowscentral.com

Probably not, but we will have to wait and see!

NO! I just left Windows in March. I do not see myself going back unless Apple completely mucks up MacOS.

 

[justin0712]

Blame enterprise/government

Who are you kidding? It is exactly who I put the sole blame on. Microsoft should just release a consumer OS that cuts the bloat and legacy support while giving enterprise/government and anyone who relies on backward compatibility a separate OS. Announce a hard date when the legacy OS will no longer be supported and move everyone over to one version. It can be done. Something on the scale of 5-8 years from now would be well and long enough to do.

Until Microsoft can figure out how to do that Windows will remain a bloated mess carrying on so much from 90's to today.

 

[ian87w]

Who are you kidding? It is exactly who I put the sole blame on. Microsoft should just release a consumer OS that cuts the bloat and legacy support while giving enterprise/government and anyone who relies on backward compatibility a separate OS. Announce a hard date when the legacy OS will no longer be supported and move everyone over to one version. It can be done. Something on the scale of 5-8 years from now would be well and long enough to do.

Until Microsoft can figure out how to do that Windows will remain a bloated mess carrying on so much from 90's to today.

Microsoft did try, several times, and consumers balked.
First, they tried with Windows RT. Big fail.
Second, they tried again with Windows 10s. Failed again, to the point that they let consumers upgrade to regular version of Windows 10 for free.
Their current attempt is the Surface Pro X, which is ARM based. I don't think many people are interested in it.

In the end, when someone bought a computer with "Windows" OS on it, they expect it to be Windows, meaning the ability to run all the apps from way back when. Consumers don't understand when Windows 10 couldn't run programs they used to run on Windows XP. To them, they're all Windows. This is why Apple nailed down Rosetta 2 on their Apple Silicon transition. Apple knew the regular consumers wouldn't understand intel vs Apple silicon, all they know is they have a Mac, and thus there's an expectation for it to run a "Mac program."

Note that we have not even touched Enterprises and institutions. Many of them are still running custom sites/apps that require IE. Yes, you heard me, IE. This is why Microsoft still included the old Internet Explorer in Windows 10. You can bet that Microsoft want to get rid all those legacy stuff if they can. Legacy support has become both Windows' strength and weakness.

 

[maflynn]

Microsoft should just release a consumer OS that cuts the bloat and legacy support

Unlike macOS, windows supports so many varied and sometimes old technology that its a double edged sword. Yes, macoS is much more "svelte" in many respects simply because the hardware maker and operating system developer are the same. Where as windows, can pretty much run on any legacy hardware. At some point MS does need to remove legacy hardware support and they do, but the amount of support in windows is quite impressive in some ways.

MS tried to move into a new direction with UWP, but for reasons I'm unaware of, UWP just didn't have the same level of functionality/flexibility as win32 code. People chafed at using UWP programs, and I personally found them more annoying.

 

[Alwis]

For me to return back to Windows they must hire a Designer first, to fix all the issues I have with the UI. Than they need to get rid of the registry and of course there are some privacy related issues that must be resolved to. At least they must be transparent, which data is transmitted and once it is disabled this must not be changed when updating.

All of this is very unlikely to happen, so it s much more probable that I would switch from the macOS to Linux, which I already use on the Laptop in my company (I am a software developer who mostly works on software for embedded devices on Linux).

 

[maflynn]

Why does everyone hate the registry?

Its something that perhaps in a different time would be ok, but a single database that if corrupted could render your computer useless.

Personally, I don't have any issues with the registry, I've managed servers, and workstations for decades and very rarely have I come across a problem that was originated from the registry and/or caused a major issue.

By the same token in macOS, I've run into headaches and issues over the years that came from ~/Library and /Library. Rarely to be sure, but they have occurred, sometimes due to self-infliction My point is no operating system's database(s) it relies on is 100% safe.

I think much of the hate occurs because of early on, much how Vista is maligned but a fully updated/patched Vista was really no different then windows 7 in performance, features, and stability. Yet the name will go down in infamy as one of the worst versions of windows. The registry in the beginning I think was the same, but as time goes on there's really been no issues with it.

I've seen people complain about the registry left and right in the interwebs throughout the years and then asked why, they failed to provide the reasons - they were just piling on because everyone else was piling on, or because its a favorite target for mac fans.

To be fair, the design of the registry for modern computers, is flawed, a single database where malware could hide in is not a solution we'd see now, but again it was developed when malware really didn't exist.

I'm not defending MS' use of the registry just pointing out that its not as big of a problem as people make it out to be, and its no less stable then other solutions.

that’s why the registry has to be made more secure. Never going to happen, though.

Well it is, by way of having a decent antivirus application running.

 

[maflynn]

they must hire a Designer first, to fix all the issues I have with the UI.

No argument, that mixture of old and new UI/UX and inconsistent introduction of new designs is aggravating.

Than they need to get rid of the registry

As others mentioned above, due to backward compatibility it won't go away, and secondly why do you need it gone - when millions of computers for decades have been using it problem free (if memory serves me, windows 3.1 was the first OS to use a registry).

 

[Alwis]

Why does everyone hate the registry?

Because it is mostly not transparent (BTW, is this correct Englisch?), it is not easy to backup and restore (like with text file configuration on Linux), configurations can not be easily compared or stored in a RCS like git (which I do on my servers).

It just adds an unnecessary burden without any obvious advantages for the user.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Its something that perhaps in a different time would be ok, but a single database that if corrupted could render your computer useless.

You mean like the Linux kernel? the boot partition? The MBR? Command.com? It's not just Windows that's vulnerable to one single file missing or corrupted bringing the entire system down.

 

[diamond.g]

Registry permissions are no more permissive than plist permissions.
Microsoft should be a bit more aggressive than they are with dropping older hardware. It would be nice to tie Windows 11 to DX 12U but I don’t see that happening ?

 

[maflynn]

Because it is mostly not transparent (BTW, is this correct Englisch?), it is not easy to backup and restore (like with text file configuration on Linux), configurations can not be easily compared or stored in a RCS like git (which I do on my servers).

It just adds an unnecessary burden without any obvious advantages for the user.

Fair enough but that seems more personal preference since you've not really said anything that is inherently bad for you not to use windows. Btw, using restore points backs up your registry, and those text files can be even easier to mess up in linux. You more or less have to go out of your way to mess up the registry. As for comparing configurations, I can't say that I ever heard of that or in my travels wished I could ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: one more thing, you can export your registry, so if you're wanting to run compares you can export before any actions and then after and then run a compare against those files, or export on different servers and compare that way. Basically what i'm getting at is that you can certainly run compares.

To get back to windows 11 specifically, has anyone grabbed that leaked copy and install it, either bare metal or into a virtualized environment?

I watched one YT, and he mentioned that different departments roll out different builds, so its possible that the leaked build is so early in the project that it only has UI updates, and no functional program changes or new features. I don't know if he's right or wrong, but being what amounts to an alpha build, I'll probably wait until I can get it through the insiders ring which I suspect will be available some time after the 24th

 

[nickdalzell1]

If they ditched backward compatibility I'd be forced to install an even older version of Windows to keep it. I like choice, and I like my classic apps and games. Having to install an even more outdated version of Windows to keep backward compatibility would be less secure than them keeping it to begin with. Need I remind you that there are businesses and POS terminals still running on Windows XP or 7?

Ditching older hardware support would be a wonderful (sarcasm) way to reduce e-waste wouldn't it? Last thing this planet needs is more tossed out tech.

There's nothing wrong with old tech or old software. As long as the one using it understands the risks and does what is possible to avoid it, there is nothing wrong with supporting it. I can't understand the mindset of those who want us to needlessly consume consume consume all the time. That newer is always better, and that a CRT TV belongs in the dump when it still works, or that a car over 20 years old that runs fine should be turned in to 'cash for clunkers' because some politician thought it'd be good for the planet.

Obsolete is a subjective term, and devices are only obsolete once they stop serving the needs of their user.

Some of y'all need to look up some of Radiotvphononut's rants on YouTube. Just because something is old doesn't mean you should just throw it away.

 

[diamond.g]

Because it is mostly not transparent (BTW, is this correct Englisch?), it is not easy to backup and restore (like with text file configuration on Linux), configurations can not be easily compared or stored in a RCS like git (which I do on my servers).

It just adds an unnecessary burden without any obvious advantages for the user.

I never thought about registry backups as a separate thing. System state backups contains the registry. I do agree that comparing settings isn’t easy.

 

[Alwis]

Fair enough but that seems more personal preference since you've not really said anything that is inherently bad for you not to use windows.

The registry on a desktop computer is mostly personal preference, that is true and it would not prevent me from switching back to Windows on a desktop, but the UI and the privacy issues will.

I can't say that I ever heard of that or in my travels wished I could ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On my servers I do that a lot. To check what I just changed or when trying to debug problems.

dit: one more thing, you can export your registry, so if you're wanting to run compares you can export before any actions and then after and then run a compare against those files, or export on different servers and compare that way. Basically what i'm getting at is that you can certainly run compares.

This would probably work, but it is much easier and faster to just run a diff on two files or a git diff.

I never thought about registry backups as a separate thing. System state backups contains the registry. I do agree that comparing settings isn’t easy.

On a desktop it probably doesn't matter much. On my servers I like to be able to store the configuration files in a git repository. Storing the configuration in plain files makes it also easier to move the configuration to an other system. I guess, this would also be possible with registry trees, but you would have to know where everything is stored.


Some things I forgot to mention:

The last versions of Windows I used (XP, back in the days and Win 7 in a VM for some applications) hat a tendency to clutter the users home directory, so that it was nearly unusable for my own data and the home directory was "hidden" beneath a long path. This might have changed with Win 10, I do not know.

Then I do not like the concept of "drive letters", I find the "mount point" concept as in Linux much more flexible. In macOS you can also mount a drive to a directory.

I know, that NTFS supports links, but that never really seams to work for me in Windows. In Linux and macOS there are no problems when using links in the file system and I use that a lot. Maybe this is a software developer thing, as it e.g. allows me to easily switch between different versions of files and libraries and there are a lot of other use cases.

 

[diamond.g]

The registry on a desktop computer is mostly personal preference, that is true and it would not prevent me from switching back to Windows on a desktop, but the UI and the privacy issues will.



On my servers I do that a lot. To check what I just changed or when trying to debug problems.




This would probably work, but it is much easier and faster to just run a diff on two files or a git diff.



On a desktop it probably doesn't matter much. On my servers I like to be able to store the configuration files in a git repository. Storing the configuration in plain files makes it also easier to move the configuration to an other system. I guess, this would also be possible with registry trees, but you would have to know where everything is stored.


Some things I forgot to mention:

The last versions of Windows I used (XP, back in the days and Win 7 in a VM for some applications) hat a tendency to clutter the users home directory, so that it was nearly unusable for my own data and the home directory was "hidden" beneath a long path. This might have changed with Win 10, I do not know.

Then I do not like the concept of "drive letters", I find the "mount point" concept as in Linux much more flexible. In macOS you can also mount a drive to a directory.

I know, that NTFS supports links, but that never really seams to work for me in Windows. In Linux and macOS there are no problems when using links in the file system and I use that a lot. Maybe this is a software developer thing, as it e.g. allows me to easily switch between different versions of files and libraries and there are a lot of other use cases.

Yeah Windows has supported mounting a drive as a folder for a while. It isn’t popular though.
NTFS supports links but Windows doesn’t have a GUI way of managing them you would have to do it via command line.
So there is a registry.pol file that windows reads to memory, I don’t remember where the system version is located off the top of my head, the group policy cache copy is in the group policy folder.
Otherwise Windows treats the registry as a database (right or wrong).
Now that I am thinking about it, you can fairly easily export settings without using regedit. Use PowerShell and navigate it like a file system (HKLM: ).

 

[maflynn]

I do not like...

One size doesn't fit all, and if you like/prefer a different platform, that's fine. Hell, we're talking on about non-Mac stuff on a Mac board, so we're obviously bucking the trend with who comes here anyways

All I was pointing out is that many of the shortcomings being mentioned are not really unique to windows and/or there are possible options that people are unaware of, such as taking a snapshot to back up the registry.

My company's change management is so thorough and encompassing that we don't really need to do compares on what possibly changed. Back in the day, someone made an unapproved change (with negative consequences to up time) and he sadly was let go, so we all know that nothing in production will change without an approved ticket which documents in excruciating details of what we will do, how it will be tested and how if need be, it will be backed out.

 

[diamond.g]

One size doesn't fit all, and if you like/prefer a different platform, that's fine. Hell, we're talking on about non-Mac stuff on a Mac board, so we're obviously bucking the trend with who comes here anyways

All I was pointing out is that many of the shortcomings being mentioned are not really unique to windows and/or there are possible options that people are unaware of, such as taking a snapshot to back up the registry.

My company's change management is so thorough and encompassing that we don't really need to do compares on what possibly changed. Back in the day, someone made an unapproved change (with negative consequences to up time) and he sadly was let go, so we all know that nothing in production will change without an approved ticket which documents in excruciating details of what we will do, how it will be tested and how if need be, it will be backed out.

I love the changes that cannot be reverted (schema changes, Exchange updates). That section of our documentation always reads None.

 

[maflynn]

I love the changes that cannot be reverted (schema changes, Exchange updates). That section of our documentation always reads None.

Yep, we deal with those on many platforms, I vaguely recall some updates to Oracle's OUD was one way, and I work with Tuxedo and WebLogic (also a Oracle products) that in the past were nearly impossible to rollback or even uninstall.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

I haven't messed with the Registry in such a long time, and that's a good thing.

 

[AutomaticApple]

Who are you kidding? It is exactly who I put the sole blame on. Microsoft should just release a consumer OS that cuts the bloat and legacy support while giving enterprise/government and anyone who relies on backward compatibility a separate OS. Announce a hard date when the legacy OS will no longer be supported and move everyone over to one version. It can be done. Something on the scale of 5-8 years from now would be well and long enough to do.

Until Microsoft can figure out how to do that Windows will remain a bloated mess carrying on so much from 90's to today.

Certain governmental organizations still use floppy disks. Let that sink in.

Also, Microsoft recently canned their Chrome OS competitor called "Windows 10X" in favor of Windows 11. Windows 10X was built from the ground up and would more than likely be targeted towards consumers and educators.

Windows 10X: Everything you need to know

Microsoft has canceled Windows 10X.

www.windowscentral.com

Microsoft did try, several times, and consumers balked.
First, they tried with Windows RT. Big fail.
Second, they tried again with Windows 10s. Failed again, to the point that they let consumers upgrade to regular version of Windows 10 for free.
Their current attempt is the Surface Pro X, which is ARM based. I don't think many people are interested in it.

In the end, when someone bought a computer with "Windows" OS on it, they expect it to be Windows, meaning the ability to run all the apps from way back when. Consumers don't understand when Windows 10 couldn't run programs they used to run on Windows XP. To them, they're all Windows. This is why Apple nailed down Rosetta 2 on their Apple Silicon transition. Apple knew the regular consumers wouldn't understand intel vs Apple silicon, all they know is they have a Mac, and thus there's an expectation for it to run a "Mac program."

Note that we have not even touched Enterprises and institutions. Many of them are still running custom sites/apps that require IE. Yes, you heard me, IE. This is why Microsoft still included the old Internet Explorer in Windows 10. You can bet that Microsoft want to get rid all those legacy stuff if they can. Legacy support has become both Windows' strength and weakness.

Do not forget about Windows 10X!

Remember when Microsoft broke backwards compatibility with Windows Phone 8 (and sort of did so with Windows 10 Mobile)?

Microsoft Needs to Stop Starting Over with Windows Phone | Digital Trends

Microsoft has yet again decided to start over with mobile, signaling that the company doesn't quite know what it wants for its mobile users.

www.digitaltrends.com

As for Internet Explorer 11, it won't be included in Windows 11 whatsoever and will be removed from Windows 10 in about a year from now. Microsoft is urging businesses and institutions to use the Internet Explorer compatibility feature available in Microsoft Edge.

The future of Internet Explorer on Windows 10 is in Microsoft Edge

Update: The retired, out-of-support Internet Explorer 11 desktop application has bee

blogs.windows.com

For me to return back to Windows they must hire a Designer first, to fix all the issues I have with the UI.

Microsoft is one step ahead of you.

Panos Panay will lead the Windows Experience in addition to Microsoft's hardware efforts

Microsoft will combine two of its large teams under the leadership of Panos Panay.

www.windowscentral.com