Won’t this replace vision pro for a lot of you?

[heretiq]

Most of the people I’ve heard using vision pro is for screen mirroring and focusing.

Visor

www.visor.com

Won’t this product be a direct replacement that’s even lighter so you can wear all day?

Is it a replacement for you? If so, care to let us know why?

 

[CrysisDeu]

Is it a replacement for you? If so, care to let us know why?

No, because I don’t want AVP just for screen mirroring and entertainment. But every time I ask someone who use AVP daily, it’s either as a Mac screen or a media consumption device.

This is the first device that does exactly that, and have duo 4k screens. And it’s lighter than AVP. So I thought it is a replacement for many people

 

[AF_APPLETALK]

Most of the people I’ve heard using vision pro is for screen mirroring and focusing.

Visor

www.visor.com

Won’t this product be a direct replacement that’s even lighter so you can wear all day?

I like what I'm seeing here. Awesome find

 

[mattspace]

Ugh, membership? Why…

Looked interesting until I saw that. If I’m buying hardware I don’t want to be kept paying forever.

You only pay a subscription until you've effectively paid off the subsidised price for the hardware - after which all the features you had remain*, and there's nothing more to pay. Just like buying a carrier subsidised cellphone, that network unlocks at the end of the contract.

*You can continue to subscribe, from the looks of things, to get access to stuff that isn't related to how the headset functions as a peripheral for your device - industry networking social spaces, which sounds like some VC funder wanted a "metaverse" angle.

 

[avro707]

Hmm, that's not too bad then.

Personally all I need is the hardware functionality, social spaces and the rest are not necessary.

 

[mattspace]

So, what do you use?

Kodon for organic 3D to 3D print, Tilt / Openbrush for previs design and client review. But when I'm working in those environments, its a precise SteamVR tracked workspace.

But at local prices, speccing $10k for a 4090-based dedicated VR station, with something like a Pimax Crystal and SteamVR tracking, Vs ~$6-7k for the AVP, whose GPU will damn the optics to obsolescence - the AVP priced as it is doesn't make sense. Expensive headsets should be obsolescence-proof, obsolescing headsets should be cheap. AVP is the nuts & gum, together at last combo.

Hence why I think the Visor is a better paradigm - the computing stays in the computer, and the headset is just the optics and sensors.

Unless Apple have a real big freaking rabbit in their hat, and are going to announce a 7 metre data & power cable that turns the AVP into a peripheral headset for a Mac, similar to Sidecar, at which point they might be more comparable with Varjo's professional gear.

That's no the "basic paradigm" of the AVP. That's just an added benefit that it will run iPad apps. You keep talking about 2D Windows like the fact that the AVP provides this option is a bad thing.

Point me to an AVP app where you exist in an entirely generated environment, and you can model 3D in that 3D environment and you can model things at the native size, where you can walk around them, view their sight lines etc.

I want to see this, because so far everything 3D based I've seen of the AVP is previewing models created on other devices, but I haven't seen actual modelling.

Where's Gravity Sketch? That worked on a Mac with a Vive (though they initially only supported the Vega64 iMac Pro, not the Vega 56 version - what a debacle) - how was that not launch partner app?

But then you also were discussing the need for mirroring multiple screens, which would also just be 2D screens. So I'm not sure what you see as the distinction here.

When I work on a flats, I want to use an interface that's optimised for flats - that's macOS - I wish I could have macOS on my iPad, it would be a better device.

When I work on 3D, I want to work on my feet in a three dimensional space, with three dimensional tools. I'm yet to see that from an AVP, and the 3D examples I've seen look weak. They look like what I would expect an iPad's GPU to be able to deliver. I'm happy to see counter examples, but so far the bulk of what I've seen from the AVP is 3D as a novelty presentation for 2D tasks.

 

[CrysisDeu]

but so far the bulk of what I've seen from the AVP is 3D as a novelty presentation for 2D tasks.

exactly

 

[leman]

I would be potentially interested in this as a virtual display solution, if only I were confident that it actually delivers. Looking at the design of this device I don’t see how they could achieve good image quality and user experience.

 

[Night Spring]

But every time I ask someone who use AVP daily, it’s either as a Mac screen or a media consumption device.

Who have you asked? Because that's not the impression I get from users who post here in this forum. The ones who are still using VP regularly seem to be using multiple app windows -- a mix of iPad apps, native VP apps, and the single Mac screen. I haven't seen anyone say that they just use it solely or mainly as a Mac screen.

 

[G5isAlive]

No, because I don’t want AVP just for screen mirroring and entertainment. But every time I ask someone who use AVP daily, it’s either as a Mac screen or a media consumption device.

This is the first device that does exactly that, and have duo 4k screens. And it’s lighter than AVP. So I thought it is a replacement for many people

well everyone who has answered you here that actually owns one refutes your claim we only use it for screen mirroring or entertainment, but sure keep on ignoring us to keep on saying you know better

and we dont really know what this device will do since no one, and I am assuming you and mr space havent but maybe you have, has actually used one and reported on it. All we have is marketing material. vapor ware.

 

[motorazr]

Wait, you need a subscription to use this thing?

AVP all but requires subscription(s) — iCloud if you plan to backup data and move any information on and off of it; Apple Music, tv, news, fitness… let’s not forget Apple Care+ which is a gamble on this particular device.

Just of note ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[NT1440]

AVP all but requires subscription(s) — iCloud if you plan to backup data and move any information on and off of it; Apple Music, tv, news, fitness… let’s not forget Apple Care+ which is a gamble on this particular device.

Just of note ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Personally, I don’t subscribe to anything but podcasts…

 

[G5isAlive]

You only pay a subscription until you've effectively paid off the subsidised price for the hardware - after which all the features you had remain*, and there's nothing more to pay. Just like buying a carrier subsidised cellphone, that network unlocks at the end of the contract.

*You can continue to subscribe, from the looks of things, to get access to stuff that isn't related to how the headset functions as a peripheral for your device - industry networking social spaces, which sounds like some VC funder wanted a "metaverse" angle.

so the thing you keep omitting, even with your Asterix, is there are essentially two separate subscription fees. The one you keep referencing is for the hardware, but there is a second fee listed on the web site that is the server side of things, the Immersed App on the client (the visor) and the app on your external device 'the server' that communicates and allows it to mirror your external device.

Right now, as listed on the web site, Immersed starter mode is free, gives up to 3 virtual screens and a standard resolution of 1440x990 at its highest. If you want the 5 virtual screens at high res, which is all your website talks about with the visor, you need immersed Pro that is listed as $4.99 a month, and there is no end date listed, i.e. if you want all the features its going to cost in perpetuity.

https://immersed.com/modes

So 5 bucks a month isnt going to kill anyone, but eh, it's what I have been saying from the start. The web site makes it really difficult to figure out what you are getting for the money. If you buy the Founders edition (for a higher cost) it mentions you get Pro fro free. No mention at all on the Visor 4k section. maybe you get it, maybe you wont, but you wont find out on the web site. Nor will you find out what it weighs. what the battery life is. or even a picture of the back strap, which it says most people find more comfortable.

And then there is the main membership, vision plus. Thats the features described and claimed, but a plus implies a regular version. No clue what that is. Is it a vestigial remnant like the appendix of a previous pricing plan or is it something yet come? who knows?

I dont think Immersed is trying to mislead, I just think they are rushing to market without taking care of details on their web site, and that doesnt bode well for their totally new venture into hardware.

so folks regurgitating marketing material just isnt that useful. When will a real review come out?

 

[G5isAlive]

AVP all but requires subscription(s) — iCloud if you plan to backup data and move any information on and off of it; Apple Music, tv, news, fitness… let’s not forget Apple Care+ which is a gamble on this particular device.

Just of note ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Versus Visor which absolutely requires subscriptions if you want all the features it advertises?

all but is not the same as does. iCloud 5gb is free. Agreed 5Gb is not a backup plan, but it's plenty for sharing information in the ecosystem. Apple care+ is an insurance policy, not a subscription, so no clue why you include this in your argument. And yes, some fitness, news, and tv apps have fees, but at least they exist on the AVP. Far as I can tell, you dont even have that choice on the Visor unless it's tethered to another device.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[G5isAlive]

Hence why I think the Visor is a better paradigm - the computing stays in the computer, and the headset is just the optics and sensors.

unless you don't want to carry around a standard computer with you all the time. then the visor is useless

When I work on 3D, I want to work on my feet in a three dimensional space, with three dimensional tools. I'm yet to see that from an AVP, and the 3D examples I've seen look weak.

Cool. Show me what software on the Visor does this. Recall this is a thread comparing the two, not just another list of what people wish the AVP did.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

AVP all but requires subscription(s) — iCloud if you plan to backup data and move any information on and off of it; Apple Music, tv, news, fitness… let’s not forget Apple Care+ which is a gamble on this particular device.

Just of note ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Apples and oranges - making that comparison indicates you have limited comprehension skills.

 

[CrysisDeu]

Who have you asked? Because that's not the impression I get from users who post here in this forum. The ones who are still using VP regularly seem to be using multiple app windows -- a mix of iPad apps, native VP apps, and the single Mac screen. I haven't seen anyone say that they just use it solely or mainly as a Mac screen.

Okay. For those who I’ve asked, they usually keep a few iPad apps or vp apps around their Mac, but 2D apps to support the Mac screen. Why? Because you can only mirror one Mac screen natively, hence it is more useful to run a couple of iPad apps along with it.

But this use case is not really that different from mirroring a couple of Mac screens/windows.

And Visor might be able to run apps as well. They have streaming apps.

See my point? People are not utilizing the spatial 3D aspect of AVP. Visor achieves it differently, but it covers the 2D use cases

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

Okay. For those who I’ve asked, they usually keep a few iPad apps or vp apps around their Mac, but 2D apps to support the Mac screen. Why? Because you can only mirror one Mac screen natively, hence it is more useful to run a couple of iPad apps along with it.

But this use case is not really that different from mirroring a couple of Mac screens/windows.

And Visor might be able to run apps as well. They have streaming apps.

See my point? People are not utilizing the spatial 3D aspect of AVP. Visor achieves it differently, but it covers the 2D use cases

Sorry but you are wrong here. After using the VP for a while, I find regular monitors too constricting. I place apps ALL around me - in 3D space. Some close, some far. Instead of using a task bar to move from one active app to another, I look and select the app floating in air. I either interact with it where it is, or move it down. I've even worked standing with apps all around me. Some in front, some behind, etc.

It's really nice being able to see apps at a glance instead of periodically getting to them through an alt-tab, start bar, or screen swipe action. Especially when you are monitoring things like weather, network performance, etc.

A cool aspect of what the VP offers is my head isn't limited to the geographic area of my monitor. I've had neck surgery due to disks going bad. Part of the reason Neurosurgeons see this issue is screens. People look down to see their phones. Monitors are stuck in position.

Everything I've read about the Visor isn't for me or anyone else who has a VP from what we read ini this thread. Not really sure why people here are trying to make such a strong case for it. Especially when there are SO MANY other options out there that offer the same thing Visor says they are going to offer. Go check out the VR-Compare site I posted earlier - there are tons.

 

[G5isAlive]

Okay. For those who I’ve asked, they usually keep a few iPad apps or vp apps around their Mac, but 2D apps to support the Mac screen. Why? Because you can only mirror one Mac screen natively, hence it is more useful to run a couple of iPad apps along with it.

So you are suggesting that if people are running Apps natively on their AVP's, it's really just the same as mirroring a Mac or iPad screen? Thats what you mean when you go around saying the major use of AVP is to mirror a Mac?!

Nope. An app running on the AVP is not mirroring another device. Sorry. Just isn't.

But, I can see why you might be confused if the Visor is your frame of reference, because the visor doesn't run native apps. But in almost all the adds for the visor, what they are showing is 2D virtual screens (even when curved, its still a 2D representation of information), so why the big insistence that somehow the AVP is only doing 2D but the Visor is doing more?

It's not. It's doing less because it's tethered to some other computer.

I realize you guys like calling apps running on the AVP 'iPad apps' to suggest they are not real or useful but a), there are native apps coded specifically for the AVP, and b) all apps on the AVP, regardless of origin, are local (well except for those designed to communicate with a host).

The AVP can be used as a productivity tool. Your narrative doesn't fit.

 

[Night Spring]

so why the big insistence that somehow the AVP is only doing 2D but the Visor is doing more?

I don't think they are saying the Visor does more. It seems to me they think AVP and Visor does the same thing, that is, run 2D apps in 3D space, but Visor does it for a lower price.

Now, I don't think having multiple Mac/PC/iPad/other devices screen floating in virtual space is quite the same as having multiple Apps floating around you, but I can understand why someone might not appreciate the difference.

 

[nmart1214]

So you are suggesting that if people are running Apps natively on their AVP's, it's really just the same as mirroring a Mac or iPad screen? Thats what you mean when you go around saying the major use of AVP is to mirror a Mac?!

Nope. An app running on the AVP is not mirroring another device. Sorry. Just isn't.

But, I can see why you might be confused if the Visor is your frame of reference, because the visor doesn't run native apps. But in almost all the adds for the visor, what they are showing is 2D virtual screens (even when curved, its still a 2D representation of information), so why the big insistence that somehow the AVP is only doing 2D but the Visor is doing more?

It's not. It's doing less because it's tethered to some other computer.

I realize you guys like calling apps running on the AVP 'iPad apps' to suggest they are not real or useful but a), there are native apps coded specifically for the AVP, and b) all apps on the AVP, regardless of origin, are local (well except for those designed to communicate with a host).

The AVP can be used as a productivity tool. Your narrative doesn't fit.

Yeah, OP and some of the others have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Visor even is and don't seem to accept the feedback from actual Vision Pro owners in this very forum.

It's like telling someone to buy a monitor instead of an iMac because it's cheaper and "does the same thing". Sure, both devices show images, but only one processes on its own and doesnt require another device to use.

 

[mattspace]

so the thing you keep omitting, even with your Asterix, is there are essentially two separate subscription fees. The one you keep referencing is for the hardware, but there is a second fee listed on the web site that is the server side of things, the Immersed App on the client (the visor) and the app on your external device 'the server' that communicates and allows it to mirror your external device.

I believe what you are doing is confusing a subscription plan offered by Immersion to owners of third party headsets (Immersion Pro), with a featureset that comes bundled for life with Immersion's first party headsets (Visor).

Any reasonable person would interpret the Visor materials as "comes with a lifetime subscription to (the specifically mentioned features of) Immersion Pro".

The Visor FAQ is unambiguous - the features you have when the subscription is active remain in perpetuity after the subscription has ended. If that is not the case, they are in breach of basic consumer laws in most jurisdictions.

 

[Night Spring]

I don't think they are saying the Visor does more. It seems to me they think AVP and Visor does the same thing, that is, run 2D apps in 3D space, but Visor does it for a lower price.

Now, I don't think having multiple Mac/PC/iPad/other devices screen floating in virtual space is quite the same as having multiple Apps floating around you, but I can understand why someone might not appreciate the difference.

To further clarify, for me, the Mac screen in the VP would be a legacy feature, to access Mac apps that don't have VP or iPad equivalents. I'd much rather use native iPad and VP apps, when they are available and feature-compatible with the Mac versions.

 

[CrysisDeu]

I don't think they are saying the Visor does more. It seems to me they think AVP and Visor does the same thing, that is, run 2D apps in 3D space, but Visor does it for a lower price.

Now, I don't think having multiple Mac/PC/iPad/other devices screen floating in virtual space is quite the same as having multiple Apps floating around you, but I can understand why someone might not appreciate the difference.

Lower prices is one thing, the weight and size is the more important factor for me.
There are things AVP can do but this doesn’t. But for the few things I just needed this, I am more willing to wear it rather than AVP

 

[CrysisDeu]

Sorry but you are wrong here. After using the VP for a while, I find regular monitors too constricting. I place apps ALL around me - in 3D space. Some close, some far. Instead of using a task bar to move from one active app to another, I look and select the app floating in air. I either interact with it where it is, or move it down. I've even worked standing with apps all around me. Some in front, some behind, etc.

It's really nice being able to see apps at a glance instead of periodically getting to them through an alt-tab, start bar, or screen swipe action. Especially when you are monitoring things like weather, network performance, etc.

A cool aspect of what the VP offers is my head isn't limited to the geographic area of my monitor. I've had neck surgery due to disks going bad. Part of the reason Neurosurgeons see this issue is screens. People look down to see their phones. Monitors are stuck in position.

Everything I've read about the Visor isn't for me or anyone else who has a VP from what we read ini this thread. Not really sure why people here are trying to make such a strong case for it. Especially when there are SO MANY other options out there that offer the same thing Visor says they are going to offer. Go check out the VR-Compare site I posted earlier - there are tons.

Deviating from the topic, but what about this question:
What if you get something in this form factor, and Vision OS. I.e. it can mirror your mac, and run iPad apps, both achievable in Visor’s form factor.
But you lose some other cool things this hardware form cannot achieve.

Would you prefer it over AVP?

For me it’s the better form factor covering the few use cases that interests me. And personally I hope Apple had one device that does this in the current situation where 3D Apps and content are very limited