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Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

Many thanks to all the beta testers who helped with this version. I really appreciate all the time and effort spent on finding my many bugs.

Thanks also for all the feedback, which helped to shape the design of the new features.
 
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NME42 said:
Is it correct to see three Stryds under paired sensors?
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Nope - that is a new one. Did you pair and unpair a few times? Are there still 3 if you restart the app? If so then unpair them all and try pairing again.
 
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cfc said:
Nope - that is a new one. Did you pair and unpair a few times? Are there still 3 if you restart the app? If so then unpair them all and try pairing again.
Click to expand...

Restarting did fix it.

No, only paired it once.
 
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Do you want the beta testers to move to the GA version, or do you already have new features in the queue to test?
 
cfc said:
Many thanks to all the beta testers who helped with this version. I really appreciate all the time and effort spent on finding my many bugs.

Thanks also for all the feedback, which helped to shape the design of the new features.
Click to expand...
Love the addition of new sports types and the topo maps! Two features specifically most useful from the list for me.

Any chance there could also be a distance metric in the Soccer workout type? I usually also like to see the distance I covered during training.
 
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estesbubba said:
Do you want the beta testers to move to the GA version, or do you already have new features in the queue to test?
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You can either keep using the beta (which is valid for 3 months) or just install the release version from the App Store as usual and it will just overwrite the beta and keep all your data.

However there is a good chance that I will be releasing another beta soon if there are problems!
 
muellered said:
Love the addition of new sports types and the topo maps! Two features specifically most useful from the list for me.

Any chance there could also be a distance metric in the Soccer workout type? I usually also like to see the distance I covered during training.
Click to expand...
I will add that to my To-Do list.
 
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Just wanted to say thanks for the update! The topo maps are wonderful! I'm also really happy to see the "Back to Start" and "Possibly Traveling" settings because I'm notorious for forgetting to end my walking workouts.
 
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Which map is better now, Mapbox or Thunderforest? My first impression when switching to the latter was that it shows more POI/peaks than Mapbox?
 
jon08 said:
Which map is better now, Mapbox or Thunderforest? My first impression when switching to the latter was that it shows more POI/peaks than Mapbox?
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I prefer Thunderforest because of the topo data, but it is also generally more detailed. However that makes it slightly slower and use more memory.

The use of more memory is one of the main reasons that I have not made it the default map. WatchOS kills off apps that use too much memory and it is impossible to test it for every part of the world, so I worry that there will be places with too much detail. In particular if you zoom in and out a lot then that uses loads of memory.

I thought I had catered for that by reducing the detail shown, but I have already had one report of crashing when zooming this morning so I am a bit worried. I may have to reduce the detail shown even more. Or possibly make the zooming less smooth by completely clearing the map for one zoom level before drawing it for another.

When I am happy that it is reliable then I will make Thunderforest the default, but not yet.
 
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Is it necessary to download maps cached on AW again when changing the provider or will WOD do this automatically?
 
NME42 said:
Is it necessary to download maps cached on AW again when changing the provider or will WOD do this automatically?
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Sorry - you will need to download any areas again. Note that this is only necessary for areas where you will not have a data connection, otherwise the maps will download as required.

One reason I didn't add this is because every tile costs me money, so I try to minimise the downloads! This is one of the downsides of the app's business model of a one-off payment.
 
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Thanks for the update. So far it has been smooth sailing, but have only scratched the surface. I am happy to have s7 display support and perfect timing with new version, when it is getting warmer and I plan to run more. Did 2 runs yesterday with Stryd and it worked perfectly. Even simultaneously connected to Garmin 245. The trick is to connect it first to Workoutdoors, garmin has no problem connecting afterwards (maybe it utilizes ANT+ ?‍♂️), but that is also how it has worked with Stryd's own app.

A wish for next or future version if possible. I have come to like that Garmin can show live training effect live workout and I can monitor if I am getting too close to overloading. Firstbeat has a whitepaper about it, though it might still be to complicated to figure out:

There are other apps, that can analyse afterwards. But as far as I know, there a no other workout app for Apple Watch, which can display something like this during workout.
 
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Significant1 said:
Thanks for the update. So far it has been smooth sailing, but have only scratched the surface. I am happy to have s7 display support and perfect timing with new version, when it is getting warmer and I plan to run more. Did 2 runs yesterday with Stryd and it worked perfectly. Even simultaneously connected to Garmin 245. The trick is to connect it first to Workoutdoors, garmin has no problem connecting afterwards (maybe it utilizes ANT+ ?‍♂️), but that is also how it has worked with Stryd's own app.

A wish for next or future version if possible. I have come to like that Garmin can show live training effect live workout and I can monitor if I am getting too close to overloading. Firstbeat has a whitepaper about it, though it might still be to complicated to figure out:

There are other apps, that can analyse afterwards. But as far as I know, there a no other workout app for Apple Watch, which can display something like this during workout.
Click to expand...
Glad the new version is working well.

At the moment I am steering clear of algorithmic metrics like training effect because they are usually subjective. There are several algorithms to choose from and I am not really qualified to choose. I leave that sort of thing to the bigger companies with medical scientists, although I appreciate that they can only analyse the workout afterwards. I may such live metrics in the future, but not for a while.

I sometimes toy with the idea of allowing users to create their own custom live metrics by specifying equations that use existing metrics as parameters. It is something I did many years ago for a financial app and it was rarely used but very popular amongst those that did use it. Although no-one has ever asked for it for WOD, so it's not going to happen for a very long time, if ever!
 
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A question about the look of GPS rack. The zoom track is quite jagged compared to Apple's native app. Is this an issue with the processing method, smoothing? Whether by default, the final distance is the same as in the native version of the application regardless of whether the t rackis smoothed or not?
 
Maryn said:
A question about the look of GPS rack. The zoom track is quite jagged compared to Apple's native app. Is this an issue with the processing method, smoothing? Whether by default, the final distance is the same as in the native version of the application regardless of whether the t rackis smoothed or not?
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Apple smooth the GPS track after the workout, whereas 3rd party apps like WOD do not. It doesn't affect any of the metrics during the workout.
 
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cfc said:
Glad the new version is working well.

At the moment I am steering clear of algorithmic metrics like training effect because they are usually subjective. There are several algorithms to choose from and I am not really qualified to choose. I leave that sort of thing to the bigger companies with medical scientists, although I appreciate that they can only analyse the workout afterwards. I may such live metrics in the future, but not for a while.
Click to expand...
I just read the whitepaper and it doesn't go into specifics regarding formulas and implementation. So it will be quite involved, also it will need to take background parameters into account.

I ponder how I could use Active Calories and perhaps Burn rate for the same effect. I bet it already take the necessary background parameters into account. But I guess the problem is to define the upper limit based on vo2max, training load, recovery hours etc.

So yes, I follow your reasoning, it gets complicated, unless some freely available open source solution suddently appears ? or Apple implement something ?? preferable in the next watchOS ???.

cfc said:
I sometimes toy with the idea of allowing users to create their own custom live metrics by specifying equations that use existing metrics as parameters. It is something I did many years ago for a financial app and it was rarely used but very popular amongst those that did use it. Although no-one has ever asked for it for WOD, so it's not going to happen for a very long time, if ever!
Click to expand...
If I knew how to compute a training effect/overload warning substitute based on existing metrics I would be all for it.
 
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Significant1 said:
I just read the whitepaper and it doesn't go into specifics regarding formulas and implementation. So it will be quite involved, also it will need to take background parameters into account.

I ponder how I could use Active Calories and perhaps Burn rate for the same effect. I bet it already take the necessary background parameters into account. But I guess the problem is to define the upper limit based on vo2max, training load, recovery hours etc.

So yes, I follow your reasoning, it gets complicated, unless some freely available open source solution suddently appears ? or Apple implement something ?? preferable in the next watchOS ???.


If I knew how to compute a training effect/overload warning substitute based on existing metrics I would be all for it.
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If Apple do calculate it then I will add it, in the same way as the app has always showed their calorie estimates (which are similarly subjective).
 
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Significant1 said:
So yes, I follow your reasoning, it gets complicated, unless some freely available open source solution suddently appears ? or Apple implement something ?? preferable in the next watchOS ???.
Click to expand...

Not on your Apple Watch, but absolutely the best - and free - tool to analyze all these metrics: Runalyze.
No problem syncing all my workouts (different apps and devices) via RunGap there.
 
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NME42 said:
Not on your Apple Watch, but absolutely the best - and free - tool to analyze all these metrics: Runalyze.
No problem syncing all my workouts (different apps and devices) via RunGap there.
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Thanks for the tip, but it is a live metric during workout I am looking for. One that is not limited to running (my runs are almost always combined with another kind of workout). I have a condition from an old accident, where I take extremely long time to recover if I overload myself and I know from experience it very difficult to stop by feeling, when the andrenalin is pumping.
 
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