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cfc

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As I was rowing on the C2 this morning, it struck me how cool it would be if WOD integrated with the PM5. Rowing seems to be heating up as an exercise category, with Peloton on the verge of releasing one. https://www.concept2.com/service/software/software-development-kit
The current version does not work with the fitness machine Bluetooth protocol because that is more complicated than all the other protocols put together. It has completely different data formats for rowers, treadmills, steppers etc.

I will support it in the future if there is enough demand so if the PM5 supports the standard Bluetooth protocol then it should work when I have added that.
 
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cfc

macrumors 68040
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Hi Ian,
Can you post full detailed list with all changes in new version.

Thanks
Here are the highlights. However there are literally hundreds of other minor changes throughout the app.

Added Bluetooth sensor support: power, speed, distance, cadence and heart rate sensors
Added option to use new Thunderforest maps with terrain data (still uses Mapbox by default)
Now makes the most of the larger screens on 41mm and 45mm watches
Added new screen layouts with very large font size
Added Tennis and Soccer activities
Added ability to export FIT files for workouts (now the default for Strava uploads)
Added "Back to Start" alert with option to automatically end a workout
Added "Possibly Travelling" alert with option to automatically end a workout
Added ability to send a workout from iPhone back to watch.
Added new location metrics: latitude, longitude (decimal version), UTM zone, easting, northing
Added ability to ignore some interval types when exporting TCX (e.g. warm up, recover etc).
Added new shake gesture for shortcuts
Added new crown rotation gestures for shortcuts
Added new commands for shortcuts & buttons: zooming and sensor, voice and theme settings.
Added option to start in water lock mode when paddling
Added the ability to remove a route from the watch
New long touch menu screen with up to 6 configurable buttons
Changed default top left long touch menu option from Info to Now Playing
Now using always on altimeter if available
Now showing pace for each workout on main workouts tab in iPhone app.
Added the option to define pool lengths in yards.
Pool lengths can now be defined up to 1 decimal place
Pool lengths now include 33⅓ option
Metrics now shown in colour for each workout on main workouts tab in iPhone app.
Re-worked pace settings to make clearer the difference between calibrated and GPS distances
Added links to user guides for Intervals and for Sensors
Added Send All button to the screens tab
Added Apple's auto-pause for cycling, which is now available in watchOS 8
Removed Indoor/Outdoor choice for "Other Activities" because some can be either
Added new "track location" command for when you have panned the map accidentally
 

estesbubba

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Nov 23, 2020
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The use of more memory is one of the main reasons that I have not made it the default map. WatchOS kills off apps that use too much memory and it is impossible to test it for every part of the world, so I worry that there will be places with too much detail. In particular if you zoom in and out a lot then that uses loads of memory.
So Apple will actually kill an app running in the foreground because it's using too much memory?
 

Significant1

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Dec 20, 2014
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So Apple will actually kill an app running in the foreground because it's using too much memory?
Any operating system will/should do that to prevent the whole system crashes/freezes. Question is, if the memory manager does return an errorcode or throw and exception to handle things gracefully in the app before it happens. I have never programmed for WatchOS, so I can't say.
 
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cfc

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So Apple will actually kill an app running in the foreground because it's using too much memory?
Oh yes, and for using far less memory than the average iPhone app would use. I guess it makes sense because most apps are relatively simple, but WorkOutDoors is not, mainly due to the map.

It looks like that crash was not due to memory issues, which is a relief for me.
 

cfc

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May 27, 2011
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Any operating system will/should do that to prevent the whole system crashes/freezes. Question is, if the memory manager does return an errorcode or throw and exception to handle things gracefully in the app before it happens. I have never programmed for WatchOS, so I can't say.
If watchOS does allow the app to handle it gracefully then I do not know how to trap it.

I would be very happy to learn if anyone does know how to do it?
 

estesbubba

macrumors member
Nov 23, 2020
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Oh yes, and for using far less memory than the average iPhone app would use. I guess it makes sense because most apps are relatively simple, but WorkOutDoors is not, mainly due to the map.
I'm happy to report I did a 71 mile gravel bike ride a week ago and had no issues with WOD, and watchOS didn't kill it. I was using Thunderforest maps pre-downloaded, a route, and the ride took 6:42 to complete. My biggest issue was battery drain and I using 50% of my watch battery the first 50% of the ride. I put the watch into theatre mode which helped a lot the 2nd half. My guess is riding gravel with AOD wakes the watch up very often.
 
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NME42

macrumors 65816
Sep 15, 2019
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My 2.5 hours run today went also fine. Stryd drained battery a little more than without, but not significantly. Had 60% battery left and was doing Bluetooth audio.
 
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super.sjimmie

macrumors member
Apr 26, 2022
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Question. In the iPhone app, under the Workouts tab, I see my workouts. The walks are shown in km/h (speed) while the runs are in min/km (pace). Is there some way to set them all to km/h (speed)?
 

jon08

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Nov 14, 2008
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I prefer Thunderforest because of the topo data, but it is also generally more detailed. However that makes it slightly slower and use more memory.

The use of more memory is one of the main reasons that I have not made it the default map. WatchOS kills off apps that use too much memory and it is impossible to test it for every part of the world, so I worry that there will be places with too much detail. In particular if you zoom in and out a lot then that uses loads of memory.

I thought I had catered for that by reducing the detail shown, but I have already had one report of crashing when zooming this morning so I am a bit worried. I may have to reduce the detail shown even more. Or possibly make the zooming less smooth by completely clearing the map for one zoom level before drawing it for another.

When I am happy that it is reliable then I will make Thunderforest the default, but not yet.
I really like the Thunderforest map so far. Definitely more detailed with more POIs and peaks listed. Perhaps the only thing I miss from Mapbox is providing a peak’s elevation info next to the peak’s name. I wish they could add that.
 
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cfc

macrumors 68040
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May 27, 2011
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Question. In the iPhone app, under the Workouts tab, I see my workouts. The walks are shown in km/h (speed) while the runs are in min/km (pace). Is there some way to set them all to km/h (speed)?
Sorry, that isn't possible. No-one has ever asked for that and I feel that it may be a configuration setting to far (if that is possible with WOD).
 

cfc

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May 27, 2011
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I really like the Thunderforest map so far. Definitely more detailed with more POIs and peaks listed. Perhaps the only thing I miss from Mapbox is providing a peak’s elevation info next to the peak’s name. I wish they could add that.
I may add that in the future. Thunderforest probably provide the data, and if so then it would just be a case of me changing the code to draw it.
 

super.sjimmie

macrumors member
Apr 26, 2022
33
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Sorry, that isn't possible. No-one has ever asked for that and I feel that it may be a configuration setting to far (if that is possible with WOD).
I don't fully understand. Now one is in km/h while the other is in min/km. Wouldn't it be easier to just have both the same? I mean, why is running fixed to min/km and walking fixed to km/h?
 

cfc

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I don't fully understand. Now one is in km/h while the other is in min/km. Wouldn't it be easier to just have both the same? I mean, why is running fixed to min/km and walking fixed to km/h?
Because walkers are usually interested in their speed but runners are usually interested in their pace.
 
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estesbubba

macrumors member
Nov 23, 2020
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As you posted previously, my wife's iPhone app updated but her watch didn't, which is strange. I even went to the App Store on her watch, searched for WorkOutDoors, and it had a button to Open which opened the old version. I actually had to click on the app, then it had an Update button.
 

cfc

macrumors 68040
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May 27, 2011
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As you posted previously, my wife's iPhone app updated but her watch didn't, which is strange. I even went to the App Store on her watch, searched for WorkOutDoors, and it had a button to Open which opened the old version. I actually had to click on the app, then it had an Update button.
I think it takes a while for the update to get through Apple's systems. I asked for it to be slowly released over a week in terms of the people who have automatic updates enabled, but if you manually look at the App Store then the latest version should be available on both the iPhone and watch App Stores. In theory.
 

jon08

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Nov 14, 2008
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I may add that in the future. Thunderforest probably provide the data, and if so then it would just be a case of me changing the code to draw it.
Yes, it would be great if you added the peaks’ elevation as well - seems like a must with hiking! :)
 
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Significant1

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Dec 20, 2014
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Hi. After Stryd support I can use Workoutdoors as my goto activity tracker on Apple Watch again :).

Because of that, I have some hopefully relatively simple wish/suggestion to make workoutdoors more accessible. Workoutdoors has lots of options, but they are unnecessarily complicated to navigate for a simple reason. Today there is a lot of noise from activities I am not using and if I want to change some settings, it is rarely across multiple activities but settings for specific activity I am about to use.
  1. Change the order of the menu-hierarki in settings, so you first choose an activity and find all settings for that activity.
  2. In settings put activities last, that is not shown in menu. Possible below a separator line or under an “Other”/”Not shown” menu-item.
My Eyesight is not the best anymore and I don’t always wear classes
3. An option to keep the order of activities fixed in the main menu, instead of last used.​
4. Most of the text does not adapt to the font size set in watch and phone settings​
5. It would nice if the top+bottom line + labels could be disabled in activity screens to allow for maximum font-size for data. Possible so you can toggle it with a shortcut.​

I know 4 and 5 might be difficult in the current implementation, but hope you keep it in mind if/when you transition to SwiftUI.

Thanks for Stryd support and a great app.
 
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grrbb

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Apr 26, 2022
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Hi - the addition of sensors for cycling & running sounds great... quick question - if I pair a footpod (as yet uncalibrated) and set cadence & pace to come from the Apple Watch, will I be able to see the footpod pace metric (using the sensor pace field) and have this data in export file ... useful for checking footpod accuracy before using it as the actual source of cadence & pace ?
 

cfc

macrumors 68040
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May 27, 2011
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Hi. After Stryd support I can use Workoutdoors as my goto activity tracker on Apple Watch again :).

Because of that, I have some hopefully relatively simple wish/suggestion to make workoutdoors more accessible. Workoutdoors has lots of options, but they are unnecessarily complicated to navigate for a simple reason. Today there is a lot of noise from activities I am not using and if I want to change some settings, it is rarely across multiple activities but settings for specific activity I am about to use.
  1. Change the order of the menu-hierarki in settings, so you first choose an activity and find all settings for that activity.
  2. In settings put activities last, that is not shown in menu. Possible below a separator line or under an “Other”/”Not shown” menu-item.
My Eyesight is not the best anymore and I don’t always wear classes
3. An option to keep the order of activities fixed in the main menu, instead of last used.​
4. Most of the text does not adapt to the font size set in watch and phone settings​
5. It would nice if the top+bottom line + labels could be disabled in activity screens to allow for maximum font-size for data. Possible so you can toggle it with a shortcut.​

I know 4 and 5 might be difficult in the current implementation, but hope you keep it in mind if/when you transition to SwiftUI.

Thanks for Stryd support and a great app.
Those changes in activity type functionality are very rarely requested (if ever in some cases) but I will add them to my list and have a think about them.

The last two requests may be possible if I have to rewrite the UI in SwiftUI so that the app can use the always on display. I am hoping that Apple will announce something at WWDC that will help me avoid doing that, but I am not optimistic, so I may have to rewrite large parts of the app. If so then I will bear those changes in mind (while I am repeatedly cursing Apple).
 

cfc

macrumors 68040
Original poster
May 27, 2011
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Hi - the addition of sensors for cycling & running sounds great... quick question - if I pair a footpod (as yet uncalibrated) and set cadence & pace to come from the Apple Watch, will I be able to see the footpod pace metric (using the sensor pace field) and have this data in export file ... useful for checking footpod accuracy before using it as the actual source of cadence & pace ?
No - you can only choose to get the pace from the sensor or from the watch. I may allow both in the future, but am starting relatively simple.
 

Significant1

macrumors 68000
Dec 20, 2014
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Those changes in activity type functionality are very rarely requested (if ever in some cases) but I will add them to my list and have a think about them.
Hmmm, now I am confused if you understood what I meant.

Today in settings you have
- alerts
- pace/dist
- Schedules
- bottom line
- Sensors
- Screens
- plus some I might have missed
As entry point in settings. And below each you have all activities, even activities I don't care about and have disabled in the menu.

I Suggest switching around. So the activity is the entry point. On the watch I actually think it would make much more sense to move them below the "..." menu next to each activity (which today has open workout, fixed length, interval schedule and workout history). The way you easily navigate the settings for an activity. Leaving only global settings in the setting So settings only contains global settings.

On the phone app I would replace the screens page with the same list of activities shown on the watch and in similar fashion move all the settings from the settings page that is activity specific, including screens configuration, below each activity.
 

cfc

macrumors 68040
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May 27, 2011
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Hmmm, now I am confused if you understood what I meant.

Today in settings you have
- alerts
- pace/dist
- Schedules
- bottom line
- Sensors
- Screens
- plus some I might have missed
As entry point in settings. And below each you have all activities, even activities I don't care about and have disabled in the menu.

I Suggest switching around. So the activity is the entry point. On the watch I actually think it would make much more sense to move them below the "..." menu next to each activity (which today has open workout, fixed length, interval schedule and workout history). The way you easily navigate the settings for an activity. Leaving only global settings in the setting So settings only contains global settings.

On the phone app I would replace the screens page with the same list of activities shown on the watch and in similar fashion move all the settings from the settings page that is activity specific, including screens configuration, below each activity.
I understood, but it would be a relatively big change (although not difficult to code) that no-one else has asked for. I quite like the idea of a Settings option on the "..." menu and may add it when I add "Start Route" to that menu, because otherwise there would be an odd number of options.

However I would still keep all the settings in the Settings screen, otherwise people would have to remember whether a setting is global or activity specific. And some settings that are currently global may change to be activity specific in the future.

I may possibly make the menu options (Main menu or Other Activities menu) also affect the Screens list of activities, but it would be a lot of work that wouldn't save much time for users. There is room in the iPhone app for the 4 most recently used activities, which is enough for most people.
 

Significant1

macrumors 68000
Dec 20, 2014
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I understood, but it would be a relatively big change (although not difficult to code) that no-one else has asked for. I quite like the idea of a Settings option on the "..." menu and may add it when I add "Start Route" to that menu, because otherwise there would be an odd number of options.
Maybe just add them all at the bottom, so you don't have to go down another level.
However I would still keep all the settings in the Settings screen, otherwise people would have to remember whether a setting is global or activity specific.
I don't think it is that hard, actually when setting up an activity I think it is quite naturally to expect where to look. The only exception is sensors. I would expect Sensor pairing to be global, but I quite like and prefer that it is activity specific. If I recall correct my garmin connect to Stryd if in range and inform me for activities, where I don't even use Stryd. Or maybe it is Polar ?. A HR-belt is another matter though (I don't have one), but I guess that is just a matter of pairing it in WatchOS settings.

All theoretically for me since I don't have an HR-belt yet (don't like wearing them, though I would like HRV), but now I just start to wonder what would happen, if you want HRV and have paired HR-belt both an WatchOS and Workoutdoors. Maybe even with an HR-belt like the Polar H10, that support dual BLE connections. ?
And some settings that are currently global may change to be activity specific in the future.
You could keep a global default settings for each of them, maybe below a "Activity defaults" menu-item (because I still find settings to cluttered), which is overruled by activity settings if defined. You could also add a button to the activity settings, that would reset to global default (basically clear them). Also in both places have a text telling, that you can adjust those settings for specific activity under an activity and you can define global settings in settings. You might also add a button in global settings for each of the categories, that would replace activity specific values with default for all
activities, that should require a confirmation to avoid accidents.

I may possibly make the menu options (Main menu or Other Activities menu) also affect the Screens list of activities, but it would be a lot of work that wouldn't save much time for users.
I agree it might require a bigger restructure of the app, but I think you underestimate how much time user spend to locate a setting for an activity, especially when there is a lot of unesserary visual noise to filer (disabled activities). Users might also not discover many features, since they simply are hard to navigate to when you are looking for them.

As an example from a me as a user. To simplify the Screens page on the iPhone app, so I easier can find the activities I use and configure them. I have entered every single other activity I don't use and cleared every single screen they had. That is a lot of work, but saves me time in the long, when locating the screens I want to adjust. They are still on list, but since they are empty, it is easy to see I should ignore them. If I ever need them, I can always restore default (but more likely, I configure a screen from scratch with just the data I want and nothing more).
There is room in the iPhone app for the 4 most recently used activities, which is enough for most people.
Where is that? 4 is in the lower end for me. 10 would fit. But better than nothing, Maybe, Since would like to keep them fixed on the watch.

Other sports watches keep the order but start showing the last one as default selected. I don't quite know how to do it in WOD. Either scroll down the main menu to last used activity when showing or have a top level menu-item with last activity type or a button that scrolls down to it.
 
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