Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[dmccombs]

Do any of the folks here, use the Auto Upload to Strava? If so, For a Walk, can you compare the number of steps that WorkOutdoors lists for a ride and compare it to the number of steps that Strava shows?

I keep seeing double the number of steps in strava as I do in Workoutdoors, for the same walk. I do these walks with my wife, and she uses her Garmin watch. Her number of steps in strava and garmin are the same. I mention this becuase strava seems to be able to correctly import step count correctly, from a garmin import.

 

[cfc]

Do any of the folks here, use the Auto Upload to Strava? If so, For a Walk, can you compare the number of steps that WorkOutdoors lists for a ride and compare it to the number of steps that Strava shows?

I keep seeing double the number of steps in strava as I do in Workoutdoors, for the same walk. I do these walks with my wife, and she uses her Garmin watch. Her number of steps in strava and garmin are the same. I mention this becuase strava seems to be able to correctly import step count correctly, from a garmin import.

Sorry, that is a bug in the app. Strava made a change recently to show steps for walks and that has highlighted a bug in WorkOutDoors where it stores the number of strides incorrectly. I didn’t realise that a stride equals 2 steps, so the app stores the number of steps in the “total strides” data, which Strava then doubles before showing it as steps.

I have fixed it in the code but won’t be releasing a new version to the App Store for a while because I am deep into rewriting the app to support the always on display. Sorry about that.

 

[dmccombs]

I think this is a bug in Strava. For most of my workouts Strava shows an elevation gain, but I went back through my workouts and found a 2 minute walk test for which it showed steps (possibly because there was no elevation gain). For this workout Strava also showed a much larger steps value than WOD (194 vs 79 in this case).

So I decided to load exactly the same FIT file into Garmin Connect and that matched WOD, so I don't know where Strava is getting its numbers from. They do seem to like ignoring the data in files sent to them and then recalculating metrics themselves, but I haven't heard of them doing it for steps before.

It would have been nice to have gotten an update from you. After you you blamed Strava ~5 weeks ago, for the step miscount error, I have wasting my time chasing Strava and googling around for solutions. I guess I should have trusted my initial suspicion since Strava successfully imported Garmin step date. SMH...

 

[cfc]

It would have been nice to have gotten an update from you. After you you blamed Strava ~5 weeks ago, for the step miscount error, I have wasting my time chasing Strava and googling around for solutions. I guess I should have trusted my initial suspicion since Strava successfully imported Garmin step date. SMH...

I deal with dozens of questions every day so I rarely go back and update people. Sorry about that, and for making you so angry.

 

[Monkswhiskers]

I deal with dozens of questions every day so I rarely go back and update people. Sorry about that, and for making you so angry.

@cfc, just to let you know, your work is greatly appreciated 👍

 

[dmccombs]

I deal with dozens of questions every day so I rarely go back and update people. Sorry about that, and for making you so angry.

No problem. If I see any more bugs or issues, I'll just keep my yap shut. I won't bother you with any more questions. 👌

 

[nexusone2012]

@cfc I wanted to say I have been loving the power meter support in the cycling workouts. I wanted to ask if you ever considered creating a companion mode on the iPhone app. For example, I would love some sort of integration where I have a map displayed on the iPhone along with metrics that are coming from the Apple Watch app. If I could have a map, heart rate data, and some power information displayed on my iPhone with it mounted to my bike handle bars, I am one step closer to just using my phone as a bike computer screen vs. having a Garmin Edge unit like I do now. Thanks for all you do! Without your app, I would be completely with Garmin.

 

[dynamike]

Have an issue with WOD/Strava/HealthFit data not matching. I know you've got quite a few similar questions and I've read them in this thread, it seems like Strava tends to make some of their own changes to the data fed from another platform? My issue is a bit more specific though.

I'm using AWU w/WOD as the only running sensor. WOD data feeds to apple health, which is synced to HealhFit, HealthFit sends the data to Strava (WOD doesn't feed to Strava directly, not sure if this is the best way to set it up but think the end results are the same, would be great if you can shed some lights on the best practice in syncing across platforms using WOD as the log app). My HF to Strava data is in FIT format, but not too sure whether my WOD to HF data is in FIT format (not sure how to find this out, my settings screenshot below).

Below are results from the three apps from a 400m x 8 interval session, with warm up and cool down before and after. The total time and distance across three apps are pretty much the same (WOD: 10.16k/50:07; HF: 10.17k/50:06; Strava: 10.16k/50:06). But there are quite some difference for each interval, Strava is short for all the intervals and long for the warm up and cool down phases. HF and WOD are close but not exactly the same either.

Any suggestions what could be the issue or what changes can I make to test things around? Thanks!

*WOD log*

*HF log*

*Strava log*

*WOD data format settings*

 

[Mauki]

(WOD doesn't feed to Strava directly, not sure if this is the best way to set it up but think the end results are the same).

It do this on my AWU. Every workout sync automaticly from WOD to Strava.

 

[cfc]

@cfc I wanted to say I have been loving the power meter support in the cycling workouts. I wanted to ask if you ever considered creating a companion mode on the iPhone app. For example, I would love some sort of integration where I have a map displayed on the iPhone along with metrics that are coming from the Apple Watch app. If I could have a map, heart rate data, and some power information displayed on my iPhone with it mounted to my bike handle bars, I am one step closer to just using my phone as a bike computer screen vs. having a Garmin Edge unit like I do now. Thanks for all you do! Without your app, I would be completely with Garmin.

At the moment WorkOutDoors is totally focussed on the Apple Watch but in the future I plan to add the ability to show live information on the iPhone as well. It is a common request from cyclists such as yourself who mount their phones on the bike, so it is on my to-do list, but not yet near the top.

It probably wouldn't be difficult to implement it in a simple way, with a fixed screen layout. However I would want to do it properly with similar screen customisation to that offered for the watch screens. However this would be a lot more work. And if I implemented the simple version then you can guarantee that I would get lots of complaints about it not being configurable!

In the long term I want to make the app run standalone on a phone without the need for a watch. This would open up a massive new market, and mirroring the stats from the watch to the phone would be a logical step in that direction. But it is not in my immediate plans. Sorry.

 

[cfc]

Have an issue with WOD/Strava/HealthFit data not matching. I know you've got quite a few similar questions and I've read them in this thread, it seems like Strava tends to make some of their own changes to the data fed from another platform? My issue is a bit more specific though.

I'm using AWU w/WOD as the only running sensor. WOD data feeds to apple health, which is synced to HealhFit, HealthFit sends the data to Strava (WOD doesn't feed to Strava directly, not sure if this is the best way to set it up but think the end results are the same, would be great if you can shed some lights on the best practice in syncing across platforms using WOD as the log app). My HF to Strava data is in FIT format, but not too sure whether my WOD to HF data is in FIT format (not sure how to find this out, my settings screenshot below).

Below are results from the three apps from a 400m x 8 interval session, with warm up and cool down before and after. The total time and distance across three apps are pretty much the same (WOD: 10.16k/50:07; HF: 10.17k/50:06; Strava: 10.16k/50:06). But there are quite some difference for each interval, Strava is short for all the intervals and long for the warm up and cool down phases. HF and WOD are close but not exactly the same either.

Any suggestions what could be the issue or what changes can I make to test things around? Thanks!

*WOD log*
View attachment 2176527

*HF log*
View attachment 2176521View attachment 2176522

*Strava log*
View attachment 2176526

*WOD data format settings*
View attachment 2176524View attachment 2176525

The usual reasons for such discrepancies are rounding issues, or different apps using different ways to calculate the data. For example Strava often recalculate the distances using the GPS trail. So they could be using the times of the intervals and then working out the distances from the GPS positions between those times, whereas Apple's distances use the pedometer.

There are many other aspects that can cause differences (whether the app is using GPS or Apple distances; different types of the interpolation required because distance updates are not frequent enough; etc).

Because of all these possibilities these sort of discrepancies usually require a lot of detailed investigation, so please send the wkt file to info@workoutdoors.net and I will take a look when I get time. To do this tap the Export button 3 times quickly.

 

[zokstar]

Lately have noticed after a "cycling" workout the max speed is blank. If workout is then uploaded to Strava, max speed is shown there.

Is this by design or a bug?

 

[cfc]

Lately have noticed after a "cycling" workout the max speed is blank. If workout is then uploaded to Strava, max speed is shown there.

Is this by design or a bug?

Whereabouts is it blank? In the WOD iPhone app, the watch app, or in Apple’s apps? Also are you using a sensor for speed?

 

[zokstar]

Whereabouts is it blank? In the WOD iPhone app, the watch app, or in Apple’s apps? Also are you using a sensor for speed?

Hi cfc

No sensors to measure max speed etc.

WOD Watch App + Phone App = Blank

Apple fitness app shows speeds (from what I can tell)

 

[cfc]

Hi cfc

No sensors to measure max speed etc.

WOD Watch App + Phone App = Blank

Apple fitness app shows speeds (from what I can tell)

It looks like the app hasn't got permission to see the pedometer, which provides the current speed and max speed (average speed comes from distance / time). There is no Steps tab in your screenshots either, which is another symptom of no pedometer permission.

To fix this go to the Settings app on the iPhone and tap Privacy and then Motion & Fitness, then make sure Fitness Tracking is enabled and so is WorkOutDoors. Then go to the Watch app on the iPhone and select Privacy and ensure that Fitness Tracking is enabled there.

If it is enabled then you may be experiencing a rare bug with iOS/watchOS where the watch seems to lose the permission. To fix this switch the permission off, then reboot both the iPhone and the watch, and then switch it on again. This procedure nudges iOS into sending it to the watch again.

 

[cfc]

It looks like the app hasn't got permission to see the pedometer, which provides the current speed and max speed (average speed comes from distance / time). There is no Steps tab in your screenshots either, which is another symptom of no pedometer permission.

To fix this go to the Settings app on the iPhone and tap Privacy and then Motion & Fitness, then make sure Fitness Tracking is enabled and so is WorkOutDoors. Then go to the Watch app on the iPhone and select Privacy and ensure that Fitness Tracking is enabled there.

If it is enabled then you may be experiencing a rare bug with iOS/watchOS where the watch seems to lose the permission. To fix this switch the permission off, then reboot both the iPhone and the watch, and then switch it on again. This procedure nudges iOS into sending it to the watch again.

Actually, ignore my last post. That is for running, not for cycling. It is such a common issue that I replied on auto-pilot.

Please email the wkt file for that workout to info@workoutdoors.net and I will take a look. To do this tap the Export button 3 times quickly.

I won't delete the reply in case it is of use to people who have the same problem when running.

 

[zokstar]

Actually, ignore my last post. That is for running, not for cycling. It is such a common issue that I replied on auto-pilot.

Please email the wkt file for that workout to info@workoutdoors.net and I will take a look. To do this tap the Export button 3 times quickly.

I won't delete the reply in case it is of use to people who have the same problem when running.

All good, thank you! WKT file has been sent

 

[timsdrew]

I've had an apple watch and a garmin and generally train with the apple watch and race with the Garmin. The WOD app encouraged me to get an AW Ultra and ditch the garmin and I did my first marathon with the ultra last weekend. All went well except for 2 issues.
The first issue is using manual intervals . I wanted to turn off auto lap and distance alerts and use the action button at each km marker, so I can monitor my km pace and not totally rely on GPS / Watch pace. The way I understand to do this is using the manual interval setting, but I cannot figure out how to just get it to display the total time between each presses of the action button. "Interval time" seems to be the correct metric, but just gives me "N/A" when I hit the interval button.
2nd issue was related to distance and gps tracks. This might not be a WOD issue more of an apple watch issue, but my distance was a good 600m-700m longer than all of my friends who ran the same course with Garmin's. The race was in a national park so GPS reception was perfect but when I compare my GPS tracks to the other tracks (DC Rainmaker style) the apple watch's track was quite jumpy compared to garmin (see screenshot below blue is AWU, red is a garmin fenix 6). I suspect this is the reason why the distance overran.
My question though, is this typical of AWU? I thought the GPS was supposedly best in class? Or is this because I used WOD instead of the default Workout apple (I doubt this). If not typical, then should I do a wipe and restore?
Any help or advice appreciated!

 

[cfc]

I've had an apple watch and a garmin and generally train with the apple watch and race with the Garmin. The WOD app encouraged me to get an AW Ultra and ditch the garmin and I did my first marathon with the ultra last weekend. All went well except for 2 issues.
The first issue is using manual intervals . I wanted to turn off auto lap and distance alerts and use the action button at each km marker, so I can monitor my km pace and not totally rely on GPS / Watch pace. The way I understand to do this is using the manual interval setting, but I cannot figure out how to just get it to display the total time between each presses of the action button. "Interval time" seems to be the correct metric, but just gives me "N/A" when I hit the interval button.
2nd issue was related to distance and gps tracks. This might not be a WOD issue more of an apple watch issue, but my distance was a good 600m-700m longer than all of my friends who ran the same course with Garmin's. The race was in a national park so GPS reception was perfect but when I compare my GPS tracks to the other tracks (DC Rainmaker style) the apple watch's track was quite jumpy compared to garmin (see screenshot below blue is AWU, red is a garmin fenix 6). I suspect this is the reason why the distance overran.
My question though, is this typical of AWU? I thought the GPS was supposedly best in class? Or is this because I used WOD instead of the default Workout apple (I doubt this). If not typical, then should I do a wipe and restore?
Any help or advice appreciated!
View attachment 2177978

To answer your first question: Interval Time is blank because you are at the start of a new interval. You need to use Previous Interval Time to see the time spent in the previous interval. The app works in this way, with the many "previous interval" and "previous lap" metrics, because often you want to examine these metrics during the next interval, for example if that is a recovery interval when such analysis is more practical.

In terms of distance the first thing to mention is that by default the app does not use GPS for distances. It uses Apple's distance estimates, which use the other sensors. They may also use GPS to some extent but Apple do not reveal the details. What this means is that you may need to calibrate the watch to get good distance estimates, as described here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204516.

For some people the calibrated distances just don't work (uneven stride length maybe?) so if the distances look off after calibration then the app offers the ability to use the GPS for distances instead. To configure this go to the Settings then Pace and Distance and change Apple to GPS.

So the slightly wiggly GPS was not affecting your distance estimates. It would have actually looked smoother if you had used Apple's native app because that smooths the trail after the workout. WorkOutDoors just shows the raw data, but it does do some smoothing behind the scenes to calculate the GPS distance.

I hope that helps.

 

[dj1891]

So guys. Did a run this morning, it’s on Watch okay but on the app on iPhone nothing. I’ve tried the resend to iPhone option and it did nothing. Any ideas? Also not showing under apple fitness app

 

[cfc]

So guys. Did a run this morning, it’s on Watch okay but on the app on iPhone nothing. I’ve tried the resend to iPhone option and it did nothing. Any ideas? Also not showing under apple fitness app

Try rebooting both the watch and the iPhone. Then try resending again.

Also, was this your first use of the app? If so then make sure you have given the app permission to read and write all the health data. To check this go to the Settings app on the iPhone and select Privacy / Health / WorkOutDoors. Make sure that every health setting is enabled (you may need to scroll down to turn them all on).

 

[Mauki]

I run yesterday a planned track with 22,3 KM. After 19 KM I think that the AWU didn‘t show the wright distance because the way home was only 2 KM. I run a other way to get 22 KM.

At home I compare the tracks and See that the correct distance is 1 KM longer.

I use Pedometer for distance and pace. For pace ok but not for distance.

Would be cool to set different types for distance and pace.

I would like to have distance with gps and pace with pedometer.

 

[cfc]

I run yesterday a planned track with 22,3 KM. After 19 KM I think that the AWU didn‘t show the wright distance because the way home was only 2 KM. I run a other way to get 22 KM.

At home I compare the tracks and See that the correct distance is 1 KM longer.

I use Pedometer for distance and pace. For pace ok but not for distance.

Would be cool to set different types for distance and pace.

I would like to have distance with gps and pace with pedometer.

You can use the pedometer for current pace and the GPS for distance. It is only the average pace that is tied to distance, but that is unavoidable.

To do this go to the Distance and Pace settings in the Settings tab of the iPhone app and set the top option to GPS (not Apple) but keep the next option as Pedometer.

 

[Mauki]

@cfc
Ok, I switch and test these settings.

 

[BrianGGG]

I left the house to run and I didn’t have my iPhone on me (I do everything from the watch).

I picked what I thought was the right interval run and started. Unfortunately I chose wrong and had to hold the intervals in my head.

Am I correct that you can’t review the parameters (like time of each step) from WOD on the watch ?

If so could this be added to the enhancement list ?