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subfreezing

macrumors newbie
Jan 15, 2015
5
2
3 runs with the beta with AOD on AWU now and no bugs found during those runs. Great job!
I also had one swim in open water, also works fine, but is there any possibility to get water temperature information?
 

tcarlisle

macrumors newbie
Oct 20, 2021
22
10
I'm configuring screens and I've discovered that for any metric that has a line graph--i.e. not a bar graph--the line graph image changes every time the metric selection is tapped. There doesn't seem to be an explanation for this, though.

Example: Speed Screen > Category: Pace > Filter: Speed > Type Filter > Graphs > Metric (selected): SPEED GRAPH

Because the image changes with each successive tap of the metric selection, it gives the impression that every tap/image change corresponds to a change in what type of information is going to be represented.

I'm guessing that this isn't the case because I've also discovered that the line graph image changes every time the screen configuration page is entered and exited.

Is there are significance to this behavior or is it a bug?

FYI: I am using beta 5.0 (11).
 

cfc

macrumors 68040
Original poster
May 27, 2011
3,012
2,515
I'm configuring screens and I've discovered that for any metric that has a line graph--i.e. not a bar graph--the line graph image changes every time the metric selection is tapped. There doesn't seem to be an explanation for this, though.

Because the image changes with each successive tap of the metric selection, it gives the impression that every tap/image change corresponds to a change in what type of information is going to be represented.

I'm guessing that this isn't the case because I've also discovered that the line graph image changes every time the screen configuration page is entered and exited.

Is there are significance to this behavior or is it a bug?

FYI: I am using beta 5.0 (11).
The line graphs drawn in the screen configuration page use randomly generated data, so they are different every time they are drawn. This has always been the case. I guess I could improve it but I probably won't in the near future. Sorry about that.

Thanks for testing the app!
 

mgmooij

macrumors member
Nov 29, 2018
62
48
Glad that helped. I am still a bit worried that @BrianGGG was also experiencing it though.
I’m sorry Ian, but I’m also seeing it… just tried it a couple of times and the crown doesn’t seem to work in map-only. Even a reboot didn’t help for me 🤔.
 

tcarlisle

macrumors newbie
Oct 20, 2021
22
10
The line graphs drawn in the screen configuration page use randomly generated data, so they are different every time they are drawn. This has always been the case. I guess I could improve it but I probably won't in the near future. Sorry about that.

Thanks for testing the app!
I figured that was the case.

Yeah, to eliminate ambiguity I'd change that at some point; but, I know that is going to be very low on your priority list. lol
 
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cfc

macrumors 68040
Original poster
May 27, 2011
3,012
2,515
I’m sorry Ian, but I’m also seeing it… just tried it a couple of times and the crown doesn’t seem to work in map-only. Even a reboot didn’t help for me 🤔.
Sounds like a random error. I will investigate.
 

jole

macrumors 6502
Feb 6, 2004
410
555
USA
The first 3 points (and maybe 4) are part of the improved navigation features that will be top of my to-do list after the always on display version is released.

Awesome. These will be very welcome additions to the app.

The last point is intentional. The app generally shows metres for small distances and miles or km for longer distances.

This is surprising: I would expect most people who choose to see any distance in miles to be US-based. And people in US generally lack the feeling of how long distance 500 meters is. They would be more familiar with 1600 feet or 0.3 miles.

That said - mixing imperial units with standard units is ok for people like me who have lived long enough both in and outside US.
 

Richo5

macrumors member
Oct 13, 2022
31
44
The first 3 points (and maybe 4) are part of the improved navigation features that will be top of my to-do list after the always on display version is released.

The last point is intentional. The app generally shows metres for small distances and miles or km for longer distances.

For the last point - are you sure this is correct - Jole is saying that it starts in meters and switches to miles. I work in metric and I have never seen it go from meters to miles. It goes 30m to 1500m and then switches to 2k for me (I'm not on the beta).

EDIT: Ignore me - I just switched to miles for the units and can see the circle starts as meters and then switches to miles. I agree with Jole that it probably makes more sense to start in feet if you select imperial but seeing as I use metric exclusively I shouldn't really have an opinion :)
 
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cfc

macrumors 68040
Original poster
May 27, 2011
3,012
2,515
Awesome. These will be very welcome additions to the app.



This is surprising: I would expect most people who choose to see any distance in miles to be US-based. And people in US generally lack the feeling of how long distance 500 meters is. They would be more familiar with 1600 feet or 0.3 miles.

That said - mixing imperial units with standard units is ok for people like me who have lived long enough both in and outside US.
I am probably influenced by being British because we use a mix of imperial and metric. We use miles but generally use metres (or yards) instead of feet for shorter horizontal distances. At least I do. We usually use feet for elevations though (which is why the app has a feet/metres option for vertical distances).

Most sports seem to use metres (athletics, swimming, rowing etc). I get the occasional request from the US for distances in yards (especially for swimming in pools measured in yards) but feet is rarely requested for horizontal distances.

One day I will rework the units used by the app to support both feet and yards, and also nautical miles for sailing. This will also include different units for speed, such as knots for sailing, pace per 500m for rowing etc. However this would be a fair amount of work and other features are currently much more requested, so it isn't high on my to-do list at the moment. Sorry about that.
 

cfc

macrumors 68040
Original poster
May 27, 2011
3,012
2,515
Hi! I cannot install the new beta from TestFlight, did we have to request access again?
Sorry, I only added people who tested the previous version (4.9.0). I have added you the latest beta now though. Thanks for testing it.
 
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BenGoren

macrumors 6502a
Jun 10, 2021
503
1,427
I am probably influenced by being British because we use a mix of imperial and metric. We use miles but generally use metres (or yards) instead of feet for shorter horizontal distances. At least I do. We usually use feet for elevations though (which is why the app has a feet/metres option for vertical distances).

Most sports seem to use metres (athletics, swimming, rowing etc). I get the occasional request from the US for distances in yards (especially for swimming in pools measured in yards) but feet is rarely requested for horizontal distances.

One day I will rework the units used by the app to support both feet and yards, and also nautical miles for sailing. This will also include different units for speed, such as knots for sailing, pace per 500m for rowing etc. However this would be a fair amount of work and other features are currently much more requested, so it isn't high on my to-do list at the moment. Sorry about that.

Units in the States are a complete disaster.

Officially, metrification is complete.

In practice … you buy milk by the quart, cream by the pint, and soda by the liter. You car’s speedometer shows MPH (sometimes, but not always with smaller print for km/h) but the fasteners are likely all metric. But, depending on the manufacturer, they could still be “standard” (fractional inches).

I’m not a competitive athlete, so I wouldn’t want to imply that what follows is what such people care about. But, growing up, all the sprints were measured in yards (e.g., “hundred-yard dash”); today, I mostly only see meters. Pool lengths are more likely to be measured in yards than meters. Diving platforms used to be given in feet; now I only think I see meters. Pool depths are always marked in feet. Elevations are always feet. (Even internationally, one “flight level” is equivalent to 1000 feet, with caveats about barometric conditions … with such conditions given in either inches or millimeters of mercury. And airspeed is still knots! But ground speed is MPH — argh!)

Measurements are important in American football, always given in yards and feet. If less than a foot, unspecified “inches” are used; for example, “fourth and inches” means a last chance to move the ball forward anywhere from a finger’s width to a mere mortal’s shoe length.

Baseball measures pitch speed in MPH. The infield diamond is standardized (in feet and inches), but each park’s outfield has different dimensions; I only remember seeing those measured in feet, not yards.

I would expect soccer to be entirely metric, even at the elementary school level.

Top-fuel drag racing used to be 1/4 mile, but the cars got so fast as to make such a “long” distance dangerous. Now they race 1000 feet. (A quarter of a mile is 1320 feet, so they shortened the strip by almost 100 meters, or a bit more than the length of a football field. But they only shortened the time by half a second in doing so!)

If you’re describing your suburban home, you’ll give the area of the lot in acres but the width and breadth in feet, never yards.

And … every lab everywhere is 100% metric. If they report non-metric figures, it’s a conversion done at the very end.

You’re right to make this a low priority, I think. If you do decide to expand it … I think I’d recommend having everything internal be metric. Then have a table that gives conversion factors for all convertible units, and let the user pick whatever they want for the display. If somebody really wants their cycling pace in smoots per fortnight, let them have it.

Presumably, this would be no small task …

b&
 

BenGoren

macrumors 6502a
Jun 10, 2021
503
1,427
Are knots measurable with a GPS? I thought knots were measured relative to the current etc.

That is a … knotty … question.

The knot is defined as one nautical mile per hour, and the nautical mile is (today) defined as 1.852 km. (Originally, it was the arc length of one minute of latitude.)

In both nautical and aviation contexts, they are given relative to the medium in which the vessel is traveling — for all sorts of obvious reasons, starting with the mechanisms by which they are measured.

Strictly speaking, one would need to know the speed of the medium in order to provide the same measurement as would be read on an onboard instrument.

(Do remember your Einstein! There is no privileged frame of reference, period; all is relative. So it’s your choice to measure your speed relative to that island up ahead or relative to that bit of flotsam you’re passing. Or to the person pacing the deck next to you — or the deck itself, for that matter.)

But I don’t see this as a problem for human-powered exercise. If you’re rowing competitively on a lake, for example, the currents will be negligible. Error from failing to account for them should be on par with that from manually pressing the start and stop buttons.

I don’t see watch-based activity tracking being useful in sailing, except for the generic “Other outdoor” calorie counter with GPS track. Your exertion won’t have anything to do with the boat’s speed. Indeed, I would expect your exertion to be roughly inversely proportional to speed. And I can see it being nice being able to compare the GPS speed given by the watch with whatever the boat’s instruments log — that would give you a very precise reading of currents along your route.

b&
 
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iamasmith

macrumors 6502a
Apr 10, 2015
842
417
Cheshire, UK
Quite, it's actually the point. A relative field of reference for nautical exercise is actually quite desirable as it's definitely a better indicator of effort so the point was that is knots actually relevant if you can't measure it because measurements were traditionally taken within the field of reference and the GPS is outside that. I think it's maybe relevant if it's on a still body and your measurements are comparative but otherwise..?
 
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FHayek

macrumors regular
Aug 24, 2012
101
5
Sorry, that is not possible. It is on my list of features to add, but currently low down the list because it is rarely requested. Sorry about that. However it will rise up the list slightly as a result of your request.
Thank you. Alway appreciate your prompt follow up.
Best,
 
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Monkswhiskers

macrumors 6502a
Feb 6, 2018
852
684
Units in the States are a complete disaster.

Officially, metrification is complete.

In practice … you buy milk by the quart, cream by the pint, and soda by the liter. You car’s speedometer shows MPH (sometimes, but not always with smaller print for km/h) but the fasteners are likely all metric. But, depending on the manufacturer, they could still be “standard” (fractional inches).

I’m not a competitive athlete, so I wouldn’t want to imply that what follows is what such people care about. But, growing up, all the sprints were measured in yards (e.g., “hundred-yard dash”); today, I mostly only see meters. Pool lengths are more likely to be measured in yards than meters. Diving platforms used to be given in feet; now I only think I see meters. Pool depths are always marked in feet. Elevations are always feet. (Even internationally, one “flight level” is equivalent to 1000 feet, with caveats about barometric conditions … with such conditions given in either inches or millimeters of mercury. And airspeed is still knots! But ground speed is MPH — argh!)

Measurements are important in American football, always given in yards and feet. If less than a foot, unspecified “inches” are used; for example, “fourth and inches” means a last chance to move the ball forward anywhere from a finger’s width to a mere mortal’s shoe length.

Baseball measures pitch speed in MPH. The infield diamond is standardized (in feet and inches), but each park’s outfield has different dimensions; I only remember seeing those measured in feet, not yards.

I would expect soccer to be entirely metric, even at the elementary school level.

Top-fuel drag racing used to be 1/4 mile, but the cars got so fast as to make such a “long” distance dangerous. Now they race 1000 feet. (A quarter of a mile is 1320 feet, so they shortened the strip by almost 100 meters, or a bit more than the length of a football field. But they only shortened the time by half a second in doing so!)

If you’re describing your suburban home, you’ll give the area of the lot in acres but the width and breadth in feet, never yards.

And … every lab everywhere is 100% metric. If they report non-metric figures, it’s a conversion done at the very end.

You’re right to make this a low priority, I think. If you do decide to expand it … I think I’d recommend having everything internal be metric. Then have a table that gives conversion factors for all convertible units, and let the user pick whatever they want for the display. If somebody really wants their cycling pace in smoots per fortnight, let them have it.

Presumably, this would be no small task …

b&
Don’t the US have Federal Miles which are slightly different to Imperial?

In the UK Soccer, (real name Football because you kick the ball with your foot 😜), we still measure in yards, 9 yard box, 12 yard spot kick etc.
 
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cfc

macrumors 68040
Original poster
May 27, 2011
3,012
2,515
That seemed to open a (very educational) can of worms!

If I showed knots then it would be nautical miles per hour, and assuming a static medium (which is admittedly not a great assumption, but I don't see any alternative).

Internally all values are stored in metric units.

Where things get even more complicated is when users want to see the same value in more than one unit. For example runners who want to see distance in both miles and kilometers. That would probably require separate (data) metrics, and there are enough of them already!

I think that units improvements have just dropped down my to-do list...
 

BenGoren

macrumors 6502a
Jun 10, 2021
503
1,427
Where things get even more complicated is when users want to see the same value in more than one unit. For example runners who want to see distance in both miles and kilometers.

Ah — I see. Not sure why you’d want to see both in the middle of a workout — but, again, I’m not a competitive athlete.

And, for after-the-fact … I’m non-stop using Siri for unit conversions. “Hey, Siri, how many teaspoons is 42 milliliters?” “That would be 8.52 tsp.” “What’s that in tablespoons?” “That would be 2.84 tbsp.” “How many teaspoons is 0.84 tablespoons?” “It’s 2.52 tsp.” So … 2 tbsp plus 2 tsp plus 1/2 tsp.

See what kind of insanity we have to deal with here in the States? ARGH!

b&
 
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BenGoren

macrumors 6502a
Jun 10, 2021
503
1,427
Don’t the US have Federal Miles which are slightly different to Imperial?

Our miles are the same, but our gallons are not. Yours are about 4 1/2 liters; ours are about 3 3/4. Then we have a never-used “dry gallon,” which is 1/8 bushel and pretty close to the Imperial gallon. (This, of course, cascades to the quart, pint, and other related measurements; there’s more beer in a pint in a pub in London than there is cream in a bottle in Wisconsin.)

Wikipedia lists over a dozen gallons, historical and current. Except for the American gallon and a couple of others from ancient history, all are pretty close to the Imperial gallon — one of which filled with water “just happens” to weigh ten pounds. Of course, that’s modern “avoirdupois” pounds, not to be confused with any of the I-can’t-count-that-high other units with the same name.

That’s the wonderful thing about standards, you see. If you don’t like the one you’re using, there’re plenty of others to pick from …

b&
 

Akrapovic

macrumors 65816
Aug 29, 2018
1,216
2,622
Scotland
Our miles are the same, but our gallons are not. Yours are about 4 1/2 liters; ours are about 3 3/4. Then we have a never-used “dry gallon,” which is 1/8 bushel and pretty close to the Imperial gallon. (This, of course, cascades to the quart, pint, and other related measurements; there’s more beer in a pint in a pub in London than there is cream in a bottle in Wisconsin.)
I think the reason for the miles confusion is obviously that your gallons produce a different MPG for cars than British MPG, leading a lot to believe that the miles are also different.

In the UK we measure our fuel in litres, but our fuel milage in gallons. Because we just like being bloody difficult.
 

alzxjm

macrumors newbie
May 11, 2022
20
14
BETA FEEDBACK

I'm on Apple Watch Ultra watchOS 10 Beta and testing WOD 5.0. When I go into Workout History I cannot go back to the main menu. I'm stuck looking at a list of workouts and cannot use the app until I force quit the app. This issue was still present after a reboot.

EDIT: I just saw in an older post that you aren't looking into watchOS 10 beta issues. Sorry about that. If I'd realized this version of WOD was coming I wouldn't have installed the beta!
 
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leescottdavis

macrumors member
Jan 25, 2021
92
86
On the subject of WOD5 and WOS10, we've mentioned previously that there are long delays (lag) ending workouts and navigating some menus. I think this is related in some way to code changes around AOD. With the lag, you have to wait a while or you could switch apps and back to WOD, but actually if you lower your wrist and cover the screen, then immediately raise your wrist it speeds through the menu. The lag a few have noticed may be the screen timeout (15 or 70 seconds). Will test more after my next workout.

Sorry for the overload of TLAs, but thought I would just mention this.
 
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