Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[cfc]

Oh, did the navigation features will come later because of watchOS 10?

Did you think the navigation is ready in 2023?

Definitely not in 2023. I am aiming for the second quarter of 2024 but I don't like to set myself deadlines. I want to do it properly so it depends on how long that takes. Ideally it will be ready for next Spring/Summer.

At the moment I am spending most of my time answering emails and social media questions, which is normal for October. In between I am working on the watchOS 10 changes and should have a beta for the next version soon. The widget for the Smart Stack has taken quite a bit of fine-tuning. It also acts as a large complication for watch faces, so is doubly useful.

The plan is to start work on the navigation in late October / early November when the questions from new watch owners have eased off and the watchOS 10 version has been released.

 

[psaaf]

The watch can be unreliable if you wear it on top of a sleeve. Not because of the heart sensor but because of the security aspect. The fact that it was necessary to disable the passcode shows that it is not happy.

I just tested it on top of a sleeve and it worked fine for a couple of minutes. The always on display worked well and it could even read my heart (!) during those minutes but then it suddenly required the passcode. So I switched off the passcode and then I occasionally (but not often) experienced the same as you: it went black and took a while to wake up. This is because it thinks it is no longer on your wrist.

So unfortunately this is controlled by watchOS and there is nothing the app can do about it. However I did find that it worked well most of the time with the thin material that I used, so it may be worth experimenting with different sleeves if possible.

Thanks. I have also noticed that it sometimes "works" with thinner fabrics. But as it gets colder that not really an option.

You get the same effect by simply taking the watch of from your arm. The display blacks out. Without a passcode it shouldn't be a security issue right, it doesn't actually lock up.

I wonder of it can be considered a bug or an undesired behaviour in watchOS? I can't help feel that a watch marketed specifically for tough environments and harsh conditions should handle this better.
Do you as a developer have any reporting options or ways to get feedback to Apple?

 

[cfc]

Thanks. I have also noticed that it sometimes "works" with thinner fabrics. But as it gets colder that not really an option.

You get the same effect by simply taking the watch of from your arm. The display blacks out. Without a passcode it shouldn't be a security issue right, it doesn't actually lock up.

I wonder of it can be considered a bug or an undesired behaviour in watchOS? I can't help feel that a watch marketed specifically for tough environments and harsh conditions should handle this better.
Do you as a developer have any reporting options or ways to get feedback to Apple?

It's definitely one for Apple, but not really a developer issue. Sorry.

 

[psaaf]

It's definitely one for Apple, but not really a developer issue. Sorry.

Yeah no worries. Thanks for the app btw. Without it there is no way I could change from Garmin to AW.

So I did find a workaround for the watch over clothes problem and I thought I'd mention it for posterity. It requires disabling Wrist Detection which enables the watch to stay on no matter what. This unfortunately disables the optical sensors all-together and with it all related metrics such as pulse, blood oxygen, sleep monitoring. So far from a good solution and I will only toggle this off and on during those cold weather workouts.

 

[cfc]

Yeah no worries. Thanks for the app btw. Without it there is no way I could change from Garmin to AW.

So I did find a workaround for the watch over clothes problem and I thought I'd mention it for posterity. It requires disabling Wrist Detection which enables the watch to stay on no matter what. This unfortunately disables the optical sensors all-together and with it all related metrics such as pulse, blood oxygen, sleep monitoring. So far from a good solution and I will only toggle this off and on during those cold weather workouts.

That is good to know. I had forgotten there was a separate option to switch off wrist detection. It's useful that option maintains the always on display functionality, unlike just disabling the passcode.

 

[Monkswhiskers]

Yeah no worries. Thanks for the app btw. Without it there is no way I could change from Garmin to AW.

So I did find a workaround for the watch over clothes problem and I thought I'd mention it for posterity. It requires disabling Wrist Detection which enables the watch to stay on no matter what. This unfortunately disables the optical sensors all-together and with it all related metrics such as pulse, blood oxygen, sleep monitoring. So far from a good solution and I will only toggle this off and on during those cold weather workouts.

The pita with this of course no Apple Pay and having to add all your cards again afterwards!

 

[MoZvy]

Hi,

I recently bought the app and must say it's a must-have for the apple watch.
However I'm having some issues with the voice prompts.

• When counting down an interval training they "pause" at 3, and then continue to end after the interval end time. So 5, 4, ......... 3, 2, 1 .
• The voice prompts are very quiet when I'm playing music and are not at all on the volume Siri is speaking. I'm using Beats fit pro earplugs and using the Apple Watch while running (no phone).

Certainly the second issue is something I'm really looking for a solution for as I tend to play my music on a low volume and it just seems the voice prompts are played at an even lower volume which makes it hardly understandable.

As far as I know I checked all settings and tried a few different things and the issue is reproduce-able every time.

1. Settings --> Voice --> Volume is maximized
2. Siri volume: I've asked Siri to speak up until she says it's the loudest she can speak and that volume is too loud in my ears.
3. I've tried "Duck" and "Pause" and with the Apple Music and podcasts app and the result is the same, low voice volume.
4. When I'm NOT playing any music or podcasts the volume IS an acceptable level so it definitely has something to do with the combination of audio playing and voice prompts.
5. If I ask Siri something while using WorkOutDoors and playing audio, Siri is speaking at a normal volume.
6. I tried reinstalling the app on the watch but this didn't help.
7. I can easily test and reproduce this while going in the WorkOutDoors voice settings screen on the Apple Watch and tapping the + from the voice volume, hearing the voice speak but lowered when playing music and OK when not.
8. I'm using an Apple Watch series 6.

Is there anything else I can try or can someone confirm they are running into the same issues?

 

[cfc]

Hi,

I recently bought the app and must say it's a must-have for the apple watch.
However I'm having some issues with the voice prompts.

• When counting down an interval training they "pause" at 3, and then continue to end after the interval end time. So 5, 4, ......... 3, 2, 1 .
• The voice prompts are very quiet when I'm playing music and are not at all on the volume Siri is speaking. I'm using Beats fit pro earplugs and using the Apple Watch while running (no phone).

Certainly the second issue is something I'm really looking for a solution for as I tend to play my music on a low volume and it just seems the voice prompts are played at an even lower volume which makes it hardly understandable.

As far as I know I checked all settings and tried a few different things and the issue is reproduce-able every time.

1. Settings --> Voice --> Volume is maximized
2. Siri volume: I've asked Siri to speak up until she says it's the loudest she can speak and that volume is too loud in my ears.
3. I've tried "Duck" and "Pause" and with the Apple Music and podcasts app and the result is the same, low voice volume.
4. When I'm NOT playing any music or podcasts the volume IS an acceptable level so it definitely has something to do with the combination of audio playing and voice prompts.
5. If I ask Siri something while using WorkOutDoors and playing audio, Siri is speaking at a normal volume.
6. I tried reinstalling the app on the watch but this didn't help.
7. I can easily test and reproduce this while going in the WorkOutDoors voice settings screen on the Apple Watch and tapping the + from the voice volume, hearing the voice speak but lowered when playing music and OK when not.
8. I'm using an Apple Watch series 6.

Is there anything else I can try or can someone confirm they are running into the same issues?

The countdown not being regular is probably due to the watch being stressed. It is the reason I haven't added a metronome to the app because it is not completely reliable. The app asks the numbers to be spoken but for some reason occasionally they take a while, especially if the watch is doing a lot.

In terms of the voice it sounds like you have tried pretty much everything. Maybe a different accent if you haven't tried that? I assume that you have also tried rebooting the watch, given how thorough you have been? That may also help with the countdown if watchOS is struggling.

Other than that I don't know what else to suggest. The app simply asks watchOS to speak a phrase with a given volume and audio interaction mode, and watchOS does the rest.

 

[SisyphusMD]

Hi Ian, two bugs I’ve noticed recently:

1) This one is very easily reproduced. I’m using a Stryd pod and a polar chest strap. Both connected through WOD. If I initiate starting a run, but don’t actually start it (I.e. to check if the interval schedule is accurate, or to go to start Spotify, etc.) when I go back to trying to start the run, I get the error that only 2 devices can be connected. This is only corrected by double tapping the crown button and completely closing WOD before restarting it. It seems to me that WOD is still connected to the 2 devices, but doesn’t realize it, and tries to reconnect to the same 2 devices a second time, although maybe my interpretation is incorrect. If that’s the case, it would be nice if WOD could recognize it’s already connected to the devices and continue to use its current connection to the devices instead of trying to connect to them again.

2) Following the above recommendation made to me to ask Siri to increase my music volume (after I made the feature request to add that as an action to turning the crown), I decided to try it out. But there was an odd series of events. I have my interval schedules give me voice alerts based on power zones. After asking Siri to increase my volume, Siri was answering me at the same time a power zone alert started, so it doubled Siri’s voice. She was simultaneously agreeing to increase the volume and telling me that my pace zone was higher than target. This seemed to really trip her up, because I got no more voice alerts through the rest of the run, including zone alerts or interval alerts. This problem persisted through my next run the next day, voice alerts completely gone. The only way I ultimately fixed was to disable voice alerts in WOD. Then close the WOD app on the watch. Then re-enable voice alerts. - So now I certainly avoid talking to Siri mid workout. This one may very well be an Apple bug, not yours. But really has me looking forward to when you have the time to add volume changes to WOD commands.

 

[MoZvy]

The countdown not being regular is probably due to the watch being stressed. It is the reason I haven't added a metronome to the app because it is not completely reliable. The app asks the numbers to be spoken but for some reason occasionally they take a while, especially if the watch is doing a lot.

In terms of the voice it sounds like you have tried pretty much everything. Maybe a different accent if you haven't tried that? I assume that you have also tried rebooting the watch, given how thorough you have been? That may also help with the countdown if watchOS is struggling.

Other than that I don't know what else to suggest. The app simply asks watchOS to speak a phrase with a given volume and audio interaction mode, and watchOS does the rest.

Yes, I definitely rebooted the watch.
I’ve also tried changing the accents and even changed the Siri voice (from Dutch to English UK) by this also didn’t help.

I’m curious if I’m the only one with this issue?

@SisyphusMD I see you’re using the voice function as well. Do you use it with Bluetooth earplugs and is the volume loud enough for you?

 

[cfc]

Hi Ian, two bugs I’ve noticed recently:

1) This one is very easily reproduced. I’m using a Stryd pod and a polar chest strap. Both connected through WOD. If I initiate starting a run, but don’t actually start it (I.e. to check if the interval schedule is accurate, or to go to start Spotify, etc.) when I go back to trying to start the run, I get the error that only 2 devices can be connected. This is only corrected by double tapping the crown button and completely closing WOD before restarting it. It seems to me that WOD is still connected to the 2 devices, but doesn’t realize it, and tries to reconnect to the same 2 devices a second time, although maybe my interpretation is incorrect. If that’s the case, it would be nice if WOD could recognize it’s already connected to the devices and continue to use its current connection to the devices instead of trying to connect to them again.

2) Following the above recommendation made to me to ask Siri to increase my music volume (after I made the feature request to add that as an action to turning the crown), I decided to try it out. But there was an odd series of events. I have my interval schedules give me voice alerts based on power zones. After asking Siri to increase my volume, Siri was answering me at the same time a power zone alert started, so it doubled Siri’s voice. She was simultaneously agreeing to increase the volume and telling me that my pace zone was higher than target. This seemed to really trip her up, because I got no more voice alerts through the rest of the run, including zone alerts or interval alerts. This problem persisted through my next run the next day, voice alerts completely gone. The only way I ultimately fixed was to disable voice alerts in WOD. Then close the WOD app on the watch. Then re-enable voice alerts. - So now I certainly avoid talking to Siri mid workout. This one may very well be an Apple bug, not yours. But really has me looking forward to when you have the time to add volume changes to WOD commands.

The 2 devices problem is because watchOS seems to take a while to disconnect from a Bluetooth device. The app asks it to disconnect, but if it then tries to connect to a device soon afterwards then it gets that error because watchOS hasn't yet disconnected. Unfortunately there is nothing the app can do about that.

That is interesting the app using Siri at the same time as it is responding to the user about something else. That does sound like a watchOS bug, so hopefully Apple can fix it.

 

[cfc]

Yes, I definitely rebooted the watch.
I’ve also tried changing the accents and even changed the Siri voice (from Dutch to English UK) by this also didn’t help.

I’m curious if I’m the only one with this issue?

@SisyphusMD I see you’re using the voice function as well. Do you use it with Bluetooth earplugs and is the volume loud enough for you?

Someone emailed about a similar issue today where the audio is sometimes silent for them. They said it has been happening since the iOS 17 beta. So I suspect something has changed or broken in Siri in iOS 17 / watchOS 10 because it does seem less reliable for voice alerts. However all 3 of you are having different issues, which is strange.

To be honest this sort of thing is quite common at this time of year. Apple often fix them in the .1 and .2 releases so I tend not to spend too much time investigating unless lots of people report a problem.

 

[cubodado]

Hi Ian, I wanted to give you a positive feedback about user experience and battery life with your app. Yesterday I had a long day of hiking, I put training in power saving and have just replaced battery on my AW6. Even if AOD was off I always had the information when I needed. Great choice of standard screens for trekking. After 4 hours of trekking and other 5 hours of visiting with AOD and Snoopy face in a very bright day I still had 56% of battery charge. I consider it an excellent result.
Just a little point: elevation was always 10-25 mt higher than my friend’s Garmin, when we had a signpost with actual elevation the truth was somewhere between.

 

[cfc]

Hi Ian, I wanted to give you a positive feedback about user experience and battery life with your app. Yesterday I had a long day of hiking, I put training in power saving and have just replaced battery on my AW6. Even if AOD was off I always had the information when I needed. Great choice of standard screens for trekking. After 4 hours of trekking and other 5 hours of visiting with AOD and Snoopy face in a very bright day I still had 56% of battery charge. I consider it an excellent result.
Just a little point: elevation was always 10-25 mt higher than my friend’s Garmin, when we had a signpost with actual elevation the truth was somewhere between.

That is great to hear. It sounds like you could have got 8 or 9 hours of hiking, which is good for a non-Ultra watch.

If you want to extend the battery life even further then you could disable "Wake on Wrist Raise" in the watch's display settings. This means that you need to tap the screen to see it, but can save a lot of power if your watch is activating when you aren't using it. This can make a massive difference for activities like paddling, but also helps with hiking and other activities if battery life is very important.

An elevation error of 5m to 12m is not too bad. By default the app uses a combination of GPS (for a base elevation) and the barometer (for relative elevation from that base). If it is slightly out like that then it is either because the GPS base elevation was slightly out, or because a weather front has affected the relative elevation.

To correct this try pausing and resuming. When the app resumes it restarts the relative elevations from the barometer and also resets the base elevation to the current GPS elevation (so make sure it has a good signal). This is another reason to make sure that you have a good GPS signal before starting a workout.

Alternatively the app has the option of using the Always on Altimeter if the watch has it. Apple don't reveal how this works but it can be very accurate. However I don't recommend using it because it sometimes seems to "jump", which ruins the ascent/descent calculations, which is why it isn't the default. I suspect it is some sort of calibration by watchOS.

I have considered allowing the absolute elevation to come from the always on altimeter whilst the relative elevations (and ascent/descent) still come from the barometer, but I am hoping that the always on altimeter will become more reliable in the future and then I can make it the default.

 

[Mitch8]

Hey, how can i got a full synchronisation of of all done workouts ?

I switch from a iphone 13 to 15 Pro (iOs 17) via full backup. All settings , routes and workouts are on new iphone ! On watch there are all settings like before, but without history of workouts. A new workout from today is saved on watch and when i send workout from phone manually it is there too. But i can‘t send each workout manually. That s to much.

Did a restart on both - no result. Any ideas !

 

[cfc]

Hey, how can i got a full synchronisation of of all done workouts ?

I switch from a iphone 13 to 15 Pro (iOs 17) via full backup. All settings , routes and workouts are on new iphone ! On watch there are all settings like before, but without history of workouts. A new workout from today is saved on watch and when i send workout from phone manually it is there too. But i can‘t send each workout manually. That s to much.

Did a restart on both - no result. Any ideas !

Sorry, there is no way to send all the workouts to the watch app because it could take too long. That is why you can only send one at a time.

The watch app only stores the last 50 workouts anyway because the iPhone app is considered the main repository and because the watch app loses data whenever the watch or iPhone are changed.

 

[jackblack123]

@cfc First of all thanks a lot for the excellent app which we all love and use almost everyday i have few queries

1. Does Work outdoors estimate total distance and speed in the indoor walking exercise or i am better off with default apple watch workouts app?

2. Similar to gentler streak can we plan to include elevation gain in stairs workout?

 

[Philoustetou]

Hello, congratulations again for the app, I have been using it happily since I got my Apple Watch ultra two. Coming from GARMIN, I'm missing one thing that seems important to me. When I run, my practice does not always require the same type of screen. When I go jogging or a track session or even a hill session, an ultra trail or a short trail, I don't need the same screens. Would it be possible to personalize or rename screens or even disciplines in order to adapt them to my practice. For example when I do track, I use a basic screen and a screen that allows me to consult my intervals, I don't need a map. On the other hand, on an ultra, to save battery, I am not going to use AOD, I need a map screen with the track and the remaining distance, a basic screen and a elevation screen. When I go jogging, I only need a basic screen etc. etc.
Would it be possible to implement this function?
Another thing, the zones have specific colors, would it be possible to apply these colors to the text or background designating the numerical value?
In any case, congratulations again and thank you for all the work.
Philippe

 

[Richo5]

Hello, congratulations again for the app, I have been using it happily since I got my Apple Watch ultra two. Coming from GARMIN, I'm missing one thing that seems important to me. When I run, my practice does not always require the same type of screen. When I go jogging or a track session or even a hill session, an ultra trail or a short trail, I don't need the same screens. Would it be possible to personalize or rename screens or even disciplines in order to adapt them to my practice. For example when I do track, I use a basic screen and a screen that allows me to consult my intervals, I don't need a map. On the other hand, on an ultra, to save battery, I am not going to use AOD, I need a map screen with the track and the remaining distance, a basic screen and a elevation screen. When I go jogging, I only need a basic screen etc. etc.
Would it be possible to implement this function?

I know @cfc has this capability in his list of upcoming features. If I understand correctly you will be able to create multiple running profiles for example and configure the screens differently for each. I would like put my vote in for getting this feature before the navigation stuff. It feels like a fairly simple feature in comparison but would be very valuable to many of us that use the app. I routinely switch between trail running and road running and would like a totally different configuration for each. I understand if you can't because it is more difficult under the hood then it seems but it would be a great addition.

 

[MoZvy]

Someone emailed about a similar issue today where the audio is sometimes silent for them. They said it has been happening since the iOS 17 beta. So I suspect something has changed or broken in Siri in iOS 17 / watchOS 10 because it does seem less reliable for voice alerts. However all 3 of you are having different issues, which is strange.

To be honest this sort of thing is quite common at this time of year. Apple often fix them in the .1 and .2 releases so I tend not to spend too much time investigating unless lots of people report a problem.

Thanks for the answer, I'll wait for a new watchOS release and keep you updated.
I've never used the app before watchOS 10 so unfortunately I cannot say if it's related to this or not.
Nevertheless, love the app and going to keep on using it!

 

[cfc]

@cfc First of all thanks a lot for the excellent app which we all love and use almost everyday i have few queries

1. Does Work outdoors estimate total distance and speed in the indoor walking exercise or i am better off with default apple watch workouts app?

2. Similar to gentler streak can we plan to include elevation gain in stairs workout?

The app uses Apple's workout system so the distance and speed for indoor walking will be exactly the same as if you used Apple's Workout app.

Using the barometer to determine elevation gain for the stairs workout has been requested a couple of times over the years so it is on my to-do list but very low down. Sorry about that. I would be slightly worried about the accuracy indoors.

Glad you like the app!

 

[cfc]

Hello, congratulations again for the app, I have been using it happily since I got my Apple Watch ultra two. Coming from GARMIN, I'm missing one thing that seems important to me. When I run, my practice does not always require the same type of screen. When I go jogging or a track session or even a hill session, an ultra trail or a short trail, I don't need the same screens. Would it be possible to personalize or rename screens or even disciplines in order to adapt them to my practice. For example when I do track, I use a basic screen and a screen that allows me to consult my intervals, I don't need a map. On the other hand, on an ultra, to save battery, I am not going to use AOD, I need a map screen with the track and the remaining distance, a basic screen and a elevation screen. When I go jogging, I only need a basic screen etc. etc.
Would it be possible to implement this function?
Another thing, the zones have specific colors, would it be possible to apply these colors to the text or background designating the numerical value?
In any case, congratulations again and thank you for all the work.
Philippe

The app uses Apple’s workout system, so it is limited to the activity types that offers. In the future I plan to allow the ability to create custom activity types that map to Apple’s types, so you could create separate activity types with different settings and screens etc.

Custom activities are probably top of my list after I have added the navigation improvements, but that will take some time. Sorry about that.

In terms of zone colours you can't set the background of each metric but you could go to Settings / Screen / Bottom Line in the iPhone app and configure the app to show the zone with the appropriate background colour.

 

[cfc]

I know @cfc has this capability in his list of upcoming features. If I understand correctly you will be able to create multiple running profiles for example and configure the screens differently for each. I would like put my vote in for getting this feature before the navigation stuff. It feels like a fairly simple feature in comparison but would be very valuable to many of us that use the app. I routinely switch between trail running and road running and would like a totally different configuration for each. I understand if you can't because it is more difficult under the hood then it seems but it would be a great addition.

You are right that it would probably take less time to implement than the navigation features. However it would still not be quick to code, and it is not requested anywhere near as often as the navigation features (although it is catching up).

Also I have been promising people (and myself) that I will improve the navigation for many years, whereas the custom activity types only seem to have become popular relatively recently.

 

[jimmyjoy]

**Feature Request**

Hi CFC. I wondered if it was possible to add a 'limit alert' for 'High/Low Heart Rate Zone'. I know there is a an alert under 'others' for zone changes but I would love a limit alert that could tell me when I breached Zone 2, with senstivity values etc.

I guess I could use a high heart rate value for this but I would appreciate being able to set this simply using a zone.

 

[cfc]

**Feature Request**

Hi CFC. I wondered if it was possible to add a 'limit alert' for 'High/Low Heart Rate Zone'. I know there is a an alert under 'others' for zone changes but I would love a limit alert that could tell me when I breached Zone 2, with senstivity values etc.

I guess I could use a high heart rate value for this but I would appreciate being able to set this simply using a zone.

That is on my to-do list but rarely requested. It will rise up the list as a result of your request.

In the meantime you can do it by using a simple interval schedule with a single interval with a manual duration and a target heart zone. It's not ideal, and it's probably easier to set a bpm alert, but it may help.