Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[estesbubba]

I did an outdoor cycling workout with the native app and double-tap while doing it is so nice!!! The setting is off by default so you have to enable it, but works great while cycling on gravel roads! Hopefully WOD adds this soon as no hands on the handlebars while cycling on gravel isn't fun!

I know that navigation is currently being working on with WOD. With the native workout app having some advantages over WOD, like auto-RPE, check in, weather, etc., will WOD support recording the activity with the native app while using navigation with WOD? The watch doesn't allow 2 apps to record a workout, but Footpath has a feature where you can record the workout with the native app while navigating with Footpath. This feature would be awesome with WOD, combining the benefits of recording with the native app while navigating and stats with WOD.

 

[cfc]

I did an outdoor cycling workout with the native app and double-tap while doing it is so nice!!! The setting is off by default so you have to enable it, but works great while cycling on gravel roads! Hopefully WOD adds this soon as no hands on the handlebars while cycling on gravel isn't fun!

I know that navigation is currently being working on with WOD. With the native workout app having some advantages over WOD, like auto-RPE, check in, weather, etc., will WOD support recording the activity with the native app while using navigation with WOD? The watch doesn't allow 2 apps to record a workout, but Footpath has a feature where you can record the workout with the native app while navigating with Footpath. This feature would be awesome with WOD, combining the benefits of recording with the native app while navigating and stats with WOD.

I don't have any plans at the moment for a non-workout mode which allows navigation but it has been requested a few times recently so it is rising up my to-do list. I will think about it more whilst I am working on the navigation.

In terms of the double-tap I am investigating that now. The early indications are that it seems that it is not really designed for my use-case. It needs to be associated with an interactive control like a button or something similar, rather than the app simply being told when it happens and then able to decide what to do with it.

There may be some way around this by changing a purely visual control into an interactive one, or maybe by adding a hidden button, so I am looking into that now.

One slight restriction if I can get it working is that it can only be used when the app is active, so not when your wrist is lowered. This should not be a problem for the default usage (probably moving to the next screen like with Apple's Workout app) but could be an issue when configured for other commands that can be of use when the watch is lowered.

 

[FMUK]

I did an outdoor cycling workout with the native app and double-tap while doing it is so nice!!! The setting is off by default so you have to enable it, but works great while cycling on gravel roads! Hopefully WOD adds this soon as no hands on the handlebars while cycling on gravel isn't fun!

I know that navigation is currently being working on with WOD. With the native workout app having some advantages over WOD, like auto-RPE, check in, weather, etc., will WOD support recording the activity with the native app while using navigation with WOD? The watch doesn't allow 2 apps to record a workout, but Footpath has a feature where you can record the workout with the native app while navigating with Footpath. This feature would be awesome with WOD, combining the benefits of recording with the native app while navigating and stats with WOD.

I can't remember if I tried this exact use case previously whilst testing, but what happens if you temporarily disable WOD's Health write access?

Start a WOD activity (with navigation 🤞), THEN start a Native activity.

Double-tap crown to flip between them (and additionally HOPEFULLY WOD turn-by-turn notifications / POI alerts would pop up even whilst the native app has the focus).

Then from what I vaguely remember, just make sure you finish the native activity FIRST, as finishing the WOD activity loses the activity or something else a bit messy.

 

[cfc]

I can't remember if I tried this exact use case previously whilst testing, but what happens if you temporarily disable WOD's Health write access?

Start a WOD activity (with navigation 🤞), THEN start a Native activity.

Double-tap crown to flip between them (and additionally HOPEFULLY WOD turn-by-turn notifications / POI alerts would pop up even whilst the native app has the focus).

Then from what I vaguely remember, just make sure you finish the native activity FIRST, as finishing the WOD activity loses the activity or something else a bit messy.

Unfortunately not giving the app all the permissions that it requires seems to have strange effects. For example, for reasons I have never understood the ability for the app to read the heart rate seems dependent upon some apparently unrelated write permissions.

In terms of the order of running apps it is not the order that you end workouts that matters but the order that you start them. Basically watchOS does not allow two apps to run a workout session at the same time. So if you start a workout session in a second app then it will kill off the session in the first one.

If Apple's app is the first app then it will stop recording the workout, whereas if WOD was the first app then it will try to continue, albeit without receiving health information from watchOS. However the navigation may still work (although I can't guarantee it).

So you may find that starting a session in Apple's app after starting one in WOD does what you want. However I don't support that scenario because WOD is designed to use Apple's workout system and is severely affected in many ways when it is not running a workout session.

 

[FMUK]

Unfortunately not giving the app all the permissions that it requires seems to have strange effects. For example, for reasons I have never understood the ability for the app to read the heart rate seems dependent upon some apparently unrelated write permissions.

In terms of the order of running apps it is not the order that you end workouts that matters but the order that you start them. Basically watchOS does not allow two apps to run a workout session at the same time. So if you start a workout session in a second app then it will kill off the session in the first one.

If Apple's app is the first app then it will stop recording the workout, whereas if WOD was the first app then it will try to continue, albeit without receiving health information from watchOS. However the navigation may still work (although I can't guarantee it).

So you may find that starting a session in Apple's app after starting one in WOD does what you want. However I don't support that scenario because WOD is designed to use Apple's workout system and is severely affected in many ways when it is not running a workout session.

I concur - and I do vaguely recall the missing HR info that you've mentioned whilst I was trying to work out a way of working that fits for me!

I've ended up that in cases where I'm using the native app (because I have structured workouts synced to it), I just run WOD in "map only" mode with the route loaded, so I can double-crown toggle to it when I need to glance at a map, this sort of works for me (so hopefully there will be a non-workout navigation mode that can pop up notifications when its not got the focus 🤞- I'm sort of hoping I'd see the notification and it would make me just choose the right direction through glancing at a label in the notification, OR would encourage me to flick to the map to check!).

 

[cfc]

I concur - and I do vaguely recall the missing HR info that you've mentioned whilst I was trying to work out a way of working that fits for me!

I've ended up that in cases where I'm using the native app (because I have structured workouts synced to it), I just run WOD in "map only" mode with the route loaded, so I can double-crown toggle to it when I need to glance at a map, this sort of works for me (so hopefully there will be a non-workout navigation mode that can pop up notifications when its not got the focus 🤞- I'm sort of hoping I'd see the notification and it would make me just choose the right direction through glancing at a label in the notification, OR would encourage me to flick to the map to check!).

It sounds a good idea to offer some sort of navigation only mode, like there is with a Map Only mode, or maybe enhance the Map Only mode in some way. I'll bear it in mind when finishing up the navigation features.

 

[estesbubba]

I haven't used Footpath in "use other workout app mode" for quite a while (I mainly use it for creating routes, which is it awesome for), but I seem to remember it will still get HR and other workout data while in it. If this is the case, maybe it wouldn't be that hard for WOD to do this?

 

[estesbubba]

In terms of the double-tap I am investigating that now. The early indications are that it seems that it is not really designed for my use-case. It needs to be associated with an interactive control like a button or something similar, rather than the app simply being told when it happens and then able to decide what to do with it.

The native workout app flips through the screens which is normally done using the Digital Crown and not a button.

One slight restriction if I can get it working is that it can only be used when the app is active, so not when your wrist is lowered. This should not be a problem for the default usage (probably moving to the next screen like with Apple's Workout app) but could be an issue when configured for other commands that can be of use when the watch is lowered.

My expectation would be double-tap only works when the wrist is up and app active.

 

[cfc]

I haven't used Footpath in "use other workout app mode" for quite a while (I mainly use it for creating routes, which is it awesome for), but I seem to remember it will still get HR and other workout data while in it. If this is the case, maybe it wouldn't be that hard for WOD to do this?

Maybe. As far as I know you can't run workout sessions in two apps but maybe they don't run a workout session and get the heart rate data in a different way. Maybe direct from the health system rather than via the workout system. I may investigate some time but it won't be high priority.

 

[cfc]

The native workout app flips through the screens which is normally done using the Digital Crown and not a button.


My expectation would be double-tap only works when the wrist is up and app active.

I got the double tap working by using a hidden button. It works quite well despite the wrist raised limitation.

So it will be in the next version, although I am not sure if that will be the major navigation version or a minor version before that.

 

[estesbubba]

Maybe. As far as I know you can't run workout sessions in two apps but maybe they don't run a workout session and get the heart rate data in a different way. Maybe direct from the health system rather than via the workout system. I may investigate some time but it won't be high priority.

Yes, when Footpath does "use another workout app" it doesn't start a workout. Here is the documentation for it.

Footpath for Apple Watch

Turn-by-turn audio navigation on your Apple Watch

footpathapp.com

 

[edgardiez7]

Hey guys, I am thinking wether to get a garmin gps for my mtb or to use the apple watch ultra (go WorkOutDoors!).
I remember there was some limitation on the number of bluetooth devices you could connect to your apple watch in the past, however I have not been able to find any information on this regard.

Can I connect heart rate strap, speed and cadence sensors to the apple watch and would they all work? Also, if this is the case, is this supported in Workoutdoors or would i need to use the native app to be able to connect to multiple sensors?
I assume the watch is also connected by bluetooth to the phone, so it would be 4 bluetooth connections simultaneously! :O

 

[edgardiez7]

Also, are there any plans to replicate activity mirroring in the iPhone for Workoutdoors? I kinda like the idea of mounting the iPhone instead of a gps computer, both for gravel or road cycling. MTB maybe its too much risk haha

 

[cfc]

Hey guys, I am thinking wether to get a garmin gps for my mtb or to use the apple watch ultra (go WorkOutDoors!).
I remember there was some limitation on the number of bluetooth devices you could connect to your apple watch in the past, however I have not been able to find any information on this regard.

Can I connect heart rate strap, speed and cadence sensors to the apple watch and would they all work? Also, if this is the case, is this supported in Workoutdoors or would i need to use the native app to be able to connect to multiple sensors?
I assume the watch is also connected by bluetooth to the phone, so it would be 4 bluetooth connections simultaneously! :O

There is a limit of 2 bluetooth connections in total across all third-party apps. There is no limit for Bluetooth connections with watchOS, so the connection to the iPhone does not count and neither do headphones or sensors connected via watchOS. So you could connect the HR sensor via watchOS and the other 2 sensors via WorkOutDoors.

In terms of iPhone mirroring it is on my To-Do list but not high up because it not as requested as much as other features (only by cyclists who don't mind mounting an iPhone on the bike). I will eventually implement it, and when I do I may also make the app work standalone on the iPhone without an Apple Watch because that would probably be very useful (and increase sales!). But it would be a lot of work and at the moment other major features are more requested.

 

[edgardiez7]

How would this work? I connect the HR sensor through the watch settings, and then the speed and cadence sensors from WOD settings? Would I be able to calibrate the speed sensor wheel diameter from WOD?

I know bluetooth sensors paired to the watch connect automatically when they're activated, do they connect automatically as well when connected via WOD instead of native watch ?

Good to know that this feature is in your backlog! Will be very well received together with navigation features I think, since cyclings would benefit most imho.

 

[cfc]

How would this work? I connect the HR sensor through the watch settings, and then the speed and cadence sensors from WOD settings? Would I be able to calibrate the speed sensor wheel diameter from WOD?

I know bluetooth sensors paired to the watch connect automatically when they're activated, do they connect automatically as well when connected via WOD instead of native watch ?

Yes, that's how it would work. Pair the cadence and speed sensors with WOD and set the diameter in the app. Then before you start a workout go to Apple's Settings app on the watch, select the Bluetooth screen and connect to the HR sensor.

WOD will have no idea that the HR values it receives from watchOS are actually from an external sensor, so it will not show any connection state for HR, but it will show the other sensors connecting. And you can see the HR values at the top of the screen whilst waiting for the other sensors.

 

[edgardiez7]

Understood! thx for the info!

 

[FMUK]

Actually, whilst talking of using "Maps" mode, it reminds me of one slight incongruency which throws me every time I use Maps rather than tracking an actual activity in WOD, not sure if this can be "fixed"?

I have shortcut gestures configured so that Double Tap is Zoom In Map, Triple Tap is Zoom Out Map, Swipes do nothing, Crown Rotation Up and Down do Next Screen and Previous Screen (including when a map is visible). I find this perfect for being "non rain impacted" (I have an Ultra so have the Action+Side as per standard Apple Pause/Resume).

However in Map Only mode, all this is ignored...and the tap's I expect to Zoom In and Out with as per my defined shortcuts don't work and I have to rotate the Crown which feels wrong. I sort of expect Crown rotation to "do nothing", unless there was a further pair of Configs in the shortcut gestures settings for "Rotate Crown - When in Map Only mode"??

 

[cfc]

Actually, whilst talking of using "Maps" mode, it reminds me of one slight incongruency which throws me every time I use Maps rather than tracking an actual activity in WOD, not sure if this can be "fixed"?

I have shortcut gestures configured so that Double Tap is Zoom In Map, Triple Tap is Zoom Out Map, Swipes do nothing, Crown Rotation Up and Down do Next Screen and Previous Screen (including when a map is visible). I find this perfect for being "non rain impacted" (I have an Ultra so have the Action+Side as per standard Apple Pause/Resume).

However in Map Only mode, all this is ignored...and the tap's I expect to Zoom In and Out with as per my defined shortcuts don't work and I have to rotate the Crown which feels wrong. I sort of expect Crown rotation to "do nothing", unless there was a further pair of Configs in the shortcut gestures settings for "Rotate Crown - When in Map Only mode"??

I just checked and it does seem that the shortcuts are ignored in Map-Only mode. No-one has spotted that before. I will add it to my list of things to look into.

 

[estesbubba]

Can I connect heart rate strap, speed and cadence sensors to the apple watch and would they all work?

I have found the HR of the Ultra 2 just as accurate as my Wahoo TICKR, so I don't use the TICKR when using WOD. Less work and more comfortable so bonus there. Also, I found at that Apple doesn't actually use the speed sensor (maybe it was here), so unpaired it from the watch. Now I ride with just a cadence sensor paired and watch for HR, and on rides I also use my Wahoo ROAM2, distance, elevation, speed, etc. are always really close.

My vote if you're going to use WOD, just pair the cadence sensor and call it good!

 

[estesbubba]

Yes, when Footpath does "use another workout app" it doesn't start a workout.

I just did a test yesterday on a walk using the native Workouts app and Footpath in "use another workout app" mode and Footpath showed HR, pace, GPS, etc. just like it was the one recording it. This would be killer for WOD to implement so you would get the benefits of using the native app to record (RPE, weather, check in, awards, etc.) while having the awesome stats and map that WOD provides! The other cool thing is Footpath stayed in the foreground so I could see the navigation.

This would be so awesome for WOD and maybe not that hard to implement?

PS - the double-tap to change screens in the native app while cycling is great, and found another benefit yesterday. If you're on the last screen, it will jump to the first one. When using the crown, you have to scroll all the way to the top.

 

[edgardiez7]

Also, I found at that Apple doesn't actually use the speed sensor (maybe it was here), so unpaired it from the watch.

Wait, is this really the case? I assumed that choosing GPS in the workoutdoors settings, instead of apple would use the speed sensor instead of the gps. Maybe @cfc knows more about this

 

[cfc]

Wait, is this really the case? I assumed that choosing GPS in the workoutdoors settings, instead of apple would use the speed sensor instead of the gps. Maybe @cfc knows more about this

I can't say what Apple's app does but if you have configured a speed sensor for WOD then that should be used (unless you have specifically configured the speed to come from the watch in the sensor settings).

 

[edgardiez7]

I can't say what Apple's app does but if you have configured a speed sensor for WOD then that should be used (unless you have specifically configured the speed to come from the watch in the sensor settings).

What should we use in the cycling section for pace? Gps or apple?

 

[cfc]

What should we use in the cycling section for pace? Gps or apple?

It shouldn't matter because the average pace and distance will be coming from the sensor.