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Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features
- Thread starter cfc
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Here is what the developer of HealthFit said, and when I dug into my Health data, it appears he is correct. Now maybe WOD is different, but my results once removing the speed sensor have the same accuracy as when it was paired. That's comparing to my Wahoo ROAM2.
Outdoor cycling workouts don’t use speed sensor with the native Apple Workout app. Speed sensor is only used for indoor cycling workouts.
You can check it on your own with Apple Health app
Drill down into the outdoor cycling workouts recorded with a speed sensor and the native Apple Workout app, you won’t see any cycling speed.
Outdoor cycling workouts don’t use speed sensor with the native Apple Workout app. Speed sensor is only used for indoor cycling workouts.
You can check it on your own with Apple Health app
Drill down into the outdoor cycling workouts recorded with a speed sensor and the native Apple Workout app, you won’t see any cycling speed.
This is only in the native app, WOD uses the speed sensor as the default speed input when connected as explained by cfc a couple msgs ago
I wonder why they have that limitation. WOD doesn't care if you are cycling indoors or outdoors. It just calculates the distance by multiplying the number of rotations reported by the sensor by the circumference calculated from the diameter entered by the user. And the speed is calculated from the distance. So it works anywhere.
I am sure there is a reason that Apple don't use speed sensors when outdoors but I can't think what it is.
Very excited to try this. I know you’ve mentioned that the default will be to switch screens, but will the hidden button be customizable? I would love for it to advance an interval as an option. Unclear how well it’ll work but seems like a more convenient motion to wake screen and double tap (action) than to wake screen and double tap (on screen).
Yes, it will be configurable to do whatever operation you want, just as with other shortcut gestures.
It's good that you don't mind the need to wake the screen first but I am expecting complaints about that and the fact that it won't work when using low power mode.
Hopefully people will understand that these limitations are due to watchOS, and that they make sense because of the power required to check every motion of the watch in case it is a double tap.
Hi cfc,
Not sure if you'll be able to offer any advice but I have a persistant issue with Strava showing less moving time than duration - even when I don't stop at all. I've read many threads and suggestions on this but I am at a bit of a loss.
Yesterday for example, I ran a half marathon with a friend. He has Ulta 2, I have Ultra 1. We both used WoD and both uploaded to Strava using the same settings. Strava workout is set to 'race' which gives the correct overall pace but it shows my moving time as almost 2 minutes less than the duration - his is 5 seconds difference.
WoD doesn't appear to show the drop in pace, which Strava seems to show as non-moving time. We are both using the Pedometer setting in WoD too.
Could you offer any advice or suggestions? Is this a Strava issue? Would resetting my calibration data on the watch help? Perhaps wiping and setting the watch up again?
Thanks.
Not sure if you'll be able to offer any advice but I have a persistant issue with Strava showing less moving time than duration - even when I don't stop at all. I've read many threads and suggestions on this but I am at a bit of a loss.
Yesterday for example, I ran a half marathon with a friend. He has Ulta 2, I have Ultra 1. We both used WoD and both uploaded to Strava using the same settings. Strava workout is set to 'race' which gives the correct overall pace but it shows my moving time as almost 2 minutes less than the duration - his is 5 seconds difference.
WoD doesn't appear to show the drop in pace, which Strava seems to show as non-moving time. We are both using the Pedometer setting in WoD too.
Could you offer any advice or suggestions? Is this a Strava issue? Would resetting my calibration data on the watch help? Perhaps wiping and setting the watch up again?
Thanks.
One possible difference is if you are sending different file types to Strava. The best one to send is FIT, which is the default.
However I generally tell people to ignore Strava's estimates of moving time because it often seems to think that you have stopped moving when you haven't.
If you have set the Strava run type to Race then it should be showing elapsed time, so I would use that and ignore the moving time.
Thanks for the reply.
We are both sending using the FIT file type. It's not an issue on yesterday's race, because it was a race but we often train together and encounter the same issue, although it often sets my pace much quicker than his due to the time not moving.
I'd love to know what causes Strava to think I have stopped and not him.
I'd love to know too because I have never understood Strava's moving time algorithm.
Not sure if this is the right place to ask this. I've been using WorkOutDoors for a while now, but with iOS 18 I've decided to try out the native Workout app for one run and I've noticed a couple interesting things.
First thing I've noticed it the GPS accuracy was much better with the native app. From 1.42m avg using the native app to 4.3m using WOD. Running the same route. See the screenshots below. In WOD I have selected Apple as the source of distance & average pace. Is there something else I can do to get the accuracy of the native app with WOD?
The second thing I've noticed, is that the way the native app creates intervals, it gets interpreted by HealthFit in a very nice way, showing all the different stats for each interval. While when doing it with WOD it just gives you pace info for each segment. Is there any plan for WOD to have similar data in Health app to mimic the native app?
First thing I've noticed it the GPS accuracy was much better with the native app. From 1.42m avg using the native app to 4.3m using WOD. Running the same route. See the screenshots below. In WOD I have selected Apple as the source of distance & average pace. Is there something else I can do to get the accuracy of the native app with WOD?
The second thing I've noticed, is that the way the native app creates intervals, it gets interpreted by HealthFit in a very nice way, showing all the different stats for each interval. While when doing it with WOD it just gives you pace info for each segment. Is there any plan for WOD to have similar data in Health app to mimic the native app?
The accuracy differences are because Apple smooth the workout route after the workout, whereas WOD and other workout apps show the raw GPS positions as reported by watchOS.
When Apple do the smoothing they adjust the accuracy figures accordingly. For example if they see that a GPS position is roughly in the middle of a series of positions in a straight line then they can be more sure about its accuracy than they were when they supplied that position live during a workout and they didn't know what was coming afterwards.
This makes no difference to the statistics you see on the watch because of two reasons: firstly it happens after the workout, and secondly by default the app uses Apple's pedometer based distances. However even if you use the GPS distances there is no real difference because WOD and most analysis systems like Strava slightly smooth the data for distance calculation anyway. In fact most external systems are probably expecting raw GPS data rather than smoothed data.
Basically the smoothing makes the trail look nicer, and improves the accuracy confidence but doesn't make much practical difference. And the result is not always more accurate.
In terms of the intervals in Apple Health, unfortunately Apple added their interval functionality long after it was added to WOD so I haven't yet integrated it so that the app saves the interval data to Apple's Health system. I was actually planning to do that last week but discovered that the way that Apple offer to do that requires their latest coding language, whereas that area of WOD is mostly written in an older language.
I will probably implement it in the future but I spent most of last year rewriting the user interface of the app to use a newer language so I am in no hurry to do the same with the rest of it!
Good to hear that intervals like that will come in the future.
And thanks for the explanation on the GPS accuracy. It makes sense that smoothing is done after the workout is done, so its fine if data displayed on the watch is a bit different compared to after the workout. But it would be nice to have higher accuracy when the workout is done.
I have also checked the data on Strava to see if it smooths the data as you say, however I cannot confirm that. See screenshot below. They seem to match what HealthFit shows. I use HeathFit to sync to Strava, if that matters. Not sure how much additional distance the raw GPS data adds, but to my naked eye it seems it would not be negligible.
And thanks for the explanation on the GPS accuracy. It makes sense that smoothing is done after the workout is done, so its fine if data displayed on the watch is a bit different compared to after the workout. But it would be nice to have higher accuracy when the workout is done.
I have also checked the data on Strava to see if it smooths the data as you say, however I cannot confirm that. See screenshot below. They seem to match what HealthFit shows. I use HeathFit to sync to Strava, if that matters. Not sure how much additional distance the raw GPS data adds, but to my naked eye it seems it would not be negligible.
I didn't mean that Strava and other systems smooth the data from a visual point of view but instead from a distance calculation point of view.
If you calculate the distance by using the simple approach of just adding up the distances of all the lines between points then it will definitely over-read because GPS points are not perfectly accurate and the resulting zig-zag trail would be longer than the real-life route taken.
So apps have to allow for that. WOD certainly does when users choose the GPS distance option, and most people find the resulting distances to be very accurate.
This is a different process to smoothing the trail from a visual point of view, which is why Strava still displays the raw positions.
@r0zina and @cfc this is why last week I suggested that WOD add an option to operate while using the native Workouts app like Footpath does. There are many benefits to using the native app over WOD (RPE, weather, check in, sensors at OS-level, and more), and having the stats and map using WOD would give the best of both worlds. WOD would behave the same way it does now, but the native Workouts would be recording the activity.
I don’t use the maps in WOD but even so, the Workout app doesn’t give me the same level of audio notifications (through the watch or through my iPhone while I listen to music), it won’t display all the metrics I want, in the format I want… Not to mention the alerts that I can configure in WOD, such as the change of heart zones for instance. I only miss gps smoothing and double pinch. Oh and distance correction for races would be awesome (this one isn’t in the native Workout app).
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Any news on turn-by-turn progress as i recently got lost. :~(
Sorry to hear that! Navigation has been on the back-burner for the last few weeks (and will be for the next few weeks) whilst I deal with the series 10 watches and watchOS 11. I released a version for the series 10 watches in time for their release and am now working on another version for watchOS 11 which supports double tap and workout effort. When that is released then I can get back to the navigation improvements.
I tested the turn-by-turn navigation on a cycling holiday at the beginning of last month and was very happy with how it worked. However I got back the day before Apple announced the series 10 watches and it's been full-on since then (as is always the case at this time of year). So I haven't had a chance to follow up on what I learnt.
Most of the main functionality is written and generally working (turn-by-turn, climb analysis, target workouts, enhanced screen configuration etc), but I still need to do a fair bit of work on the waypoint features. And then there will be a lot of fine-tuning and even more testing.
If I had to guess then I may release a beta in January. December is possible but I probably wouldn't want to deal with all the testing feedback over Xmas. And there will be a lot of feedback because there will be a lot of potentially flaky new features!
It would be a nice christmas gift !
Think I have a bug to report, but not sure. Just did a run for the first time in almost a month and the data hasn't synced to Apple Health, and doesn't show up in the Activity app. When the run finished and I press Done on the Watch I did notice it didn't do the "Saving to Apple Health" pause it normally does. Is there a way to force a sync?
Latest version of WoD. iOS 18.1. WatchOS 11.0.1
Latest version of WoD. iOS 18.1. WatchOS 11.0.1
Have you tried rebooting both devices? And made sure that Bluetooth and/or WiFi are enabled for both of them?
If that doesn't explain it then there are generally two possible reasons for the workout not being saved to Apple's Health system. The first is if you run another workout app at the same time as WorkOutDoors. WatchOS only allows one workout session to be running at any one time, so if you start a session in another app then the workout session in WorkOutDoors will be killed off.
If that doesn’t explain it then please check that you have given the app permission to read and write all the health data. To check this go to the Settings app on the iPhone and select Privacy / Health / WorkOutDoors. Make sure that every health setting is enabled (you may need to scroll down to turn them all on). Note that if you have installed on a new iPhone or watch then you may need to give permission again.
If they are all enabled then you may be experiencing a rare bug with iOS/watchOS where the watch seems to lose the permission. To fix this switch all of the health permissions off, then reboot both the iPhone and the watch, and then switch them all on again. This procedure nudges iOS into sending them to the watch again.
That should hopefully fix it for future workouts.
@cfc As an extreme happy and also pretty heavy WOD user since many years, I have collected a few wishes over time. Time to share them:
- I upgrade to the newest iPhone every year, and every year I 'forget' to make a backup of screens and profiles before switching to the new iPhone - which I discover the hard way when I go out for a run the first time after the switch. WOD settings typically are reset so I have lost all changes made over time to screens and settings. I then import the most recent backup, typically made shortly after previous year's iPhone upgrade...
Because of all the detailed adjustments (the power of WOD!) one can make, it then takes me a couple of weeks to bring WOD back to the config I had in early September... So my wish: an automatic backup system that ensures that there always is a recent backup (in iCloud?), without any manual intervention. Would be pretty convenient for forgetful people like me 😉 - A generic UI wish: every time you do something in a menu and return to the previous level, you find yourself at the top of that menu. It would be helpful and intuitive if WOD would remember your previous' menu position. This would be beneficial when updating interval schedules and also in various longer settings menus
- Over the years, I have created a long list of interval schedules. When I am looking for a specific workout, I have to browse through all of them in alphabetic order. It would be great to be able to sort them on last time updated (so the most recent ones are on top) and/or to have a search field to quickly filter that long schedules list.
Thanks for being a long-term user of the app. If you choose not to restore from a full backup of the old phone then you can use Apple's File Sharing to copy the data from the old phone to a computer and then to copy it from there to the new phone:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201301 (Windows)
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210598 (MacOS)
I hadn't realised that about the scroll positions but now that you mention it they could be improved. I will bear it in mind.
The next version of the app will allow you to sort routes by latest (and nearest) as well as alphabetical. So I will probably do the same for schedules when I next look at that area of the code.
Thanks for the feedback!