The fact that heart rate issues are at an all time low means that I don't want to play with that area of the code at the moment!
The orange bar was genuinely easy. 😀
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Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features
- Thread starter cfc
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The orange bar was genuinely easy. 😀
Hi @cfc , quick question: do you expect any compatibility issues between the WOD app and optical HR sensors which are worn on the arm? That means, as long as they have bluetooth connectivity of course 
. Have you tested the Polar Verity Sense sensor for example?
I'm one of those persons for which the optical HR sensor inside the Apple Watch does not work most of the time, winter or summer. I used to wear a chest wrap, but this is really not comfortable when running.
. Have you tested the Polar Verity Sense sensor for example?I'm one of those persons for which the optical HR sensor inside the Apple Watch does not work most of the time, winter or summer. I used to wear a chest wrap, but this is really not comfortable when running.
Arm-based optical sensors should work fine. They should use the same Bluetooth protocol and I think a couple of people have mentioned using them in the past.Hi @cfc , quick question: do you expect any compatibility issues between the WOD app and optical HR sensors which are worn on the arm? That means, as long as they have bluetooth connectivity of course
I'm one of those persons for which the optical HR sensor inside the Apple Watch does not work most of the time, winter or summer. I used to wear a chest wrap, but this is really not comfortable when running.
Hi! Even though Apple Watch workout app doesn’t have a trail run profile, would it be possible to add one on WOD for screen choices purposes? It’s ok if the post workout details on Apple health and fitness app shows as a “normal running”, but it would be easier for people like me who run on trails and street on a weekly basis and prefer to have specific screens to each training.
I plan to allow the ability to create custom activity types that map to Apple’s types, so you could create new activity types. Custom activities are currently joint top of my to-do list (along with interval schedule import / export).
Ian,
I have several comments regarding changes to the "training" app, but I know you’re busy with navigation.
Still, two of them I consider absolutely essential.
1. **Expanding the types of training units** to include easy, endurance, LT, VO2max, etc., up to 5/6 configurable types instead of just 3 (in addition to the existing ones like warm-up and cool-down).
2. **Relocating the autolap button**: Currently, there’s an autolap button in the main settings. Could you move it to the specific training tab? For example, under the "End workout on schedule end" button. For workouts like easy runs or long sessions, it’s useful to have data per kilometer, but for short intervals, autolap can be disruptive. Placing it in the main menu makes it hard to adjust during workouts. A simple toggle shortcut in the suggested location would suffice (not sure if feasible).
Thanks in advance, and best regards,
Robert
I have several comments regarding changes to the "training" app, but I know you’re busy with navigation.
Still, two of them I consider absolutely essential.
1. **Expanding the types of training units** to include easy, endurance, LT, VO2max, etc., up to 5/6 configurable types instead of just 3 (in addition to the existing ones like warm-up and cool-down).
2. **Relocating the autolap button**: Currently, there’s an autolap button in the main settings. Could you move it to the specific training tab? For example, under the "End workout on schedule end" button. For workouts like easy runs or long sessions, it’s useful to have data per kilometer, but for short intervals, autolap can be disruptive. Placing it in the main menu makes it hard to adjust during workouts. A simple toggle shortcut in the suggested location would suffice (not sure if feasible).
Thanks in advance, and best regards,
Robert
I don't think either of those absolutely essential changes have been requested before (although I could be wrong). 😀
I will bear them in mind though.
Everyone has different priorities, and that's obvious
I understand that for most people at the moment, navigation is the priority, which I absolutely don't use, and I realize that it's the most important thing for you.
I'm waiting patiently—perhaps in your free moment, you'll be able to implement the things I suggested.
I understand that for most people at the moment, navigation is the priority, which I absolutely don't use, and I realize that it's the most important thing for you.
I'm waiting patiently—perhaps in your free moment, you'll be able to implement the things I suggested.
I totally agree on the second issue. Every week I have one or two interval training and the autolap alert is annoying and unnecessary. But I always forget do disable it beforehand. It would be nice to turn it off on the “create schedule” page for a specific training.
Yup, I use a Coros arm HR sensor for gym work and also to enable me to wear watch on outside of sleeve when doing stuff in horrible winter conditions where I want an easily glanceable map without the faff of having to pull sleeve and freezing my arm from the air getting in between glove and sleeve!
Oooh, import/export from where/what? 🤔 From files, or from some of the services like TrainingPeaks, Intervals.icu etc? 🤞
If the navigation arrives and works like I expect, and there was interval import as simple as "intervals.icu calendar > watchletic > Native Apple Workout" currently is, then I think I'd be using WOD for *all* my runs, instead of just those where I need a map! 🤞🤞🤞
Initially I am just planning to allow the importing individual schedules from FIT files. I coded that up for the current WOD schedule functionality a couple of years ago. However that current functionality does not handle nested repeat loops so I asked around on here whether that would be an issue and the consensus was that it would be. So I didn't include the import functionality back then.
However Apple's app doesn't allow nested intervals either so it may be less of an issue than before.
My intention is to improve the WOD interval functionality so that it can handle most schedules contained in FIT files. This which would require the addition of nested repeat loops and a few more target types. I haven't decided whether or not to include any calendar functionality in the first version. That would depend on how things went and how much time I have between busy support periods.
The same thing applies to when I support direct importing from TP, Intervals.icu etc. Although I will probably use FIT files generated by them as part of my testing for the first phase, to ensure the improved functionality can handle what they provide.
In terms of exporting, again it would be to FIT files at first but I may also allow exporting to Apple's native app if it's easy.
Note that this is only joint top of my list along with the ability to create custom activity types that map to Apple's types. I haven't decided which to do next. This is partly because I am so focussed on navigation at the moment and partly because it will depend on how much time I have. Custom activities are more frequently requested but would take longer to code. If there is time then I will implement them first, otherwise I will look at improving interval schedules.
I'm not sure that with WatchOS 11 standard Apple training app does not support nested intervals. I programmed a Pool Swimming structured training with Final Surge with nested intervals and successfully exported it to Apple Training app. The thing is (in pool swimming) you see the repetition of the interval on screen and the repetition number displayed refers only to external interval on nested interval. Didn't try the same for running though.
Request for a low resolution base map of lage areas:
Hi Ian. Now, with the future introduction of navigation and waypoints, it would be very nice to be able to download a “base map” of a large region. That would make the Apple Watch useful for unexpected navigation needs off grid. The base map should only include major roads and the location of cities, water features etc.
Of course this should be combined with the current ability to download high detailed maps over specific areas.
Looking forward to the coming navigation update 😊
Hi Ian. Now, with the future introduction of navigation and waypoints, it would be very nice to be able to download a “base map” of a large region. That would make the Apple Watch useful for unexpected navigation needs off grid. The base map should only include major roads and the location of cities, water features etc.
Of course this should be combined with the current ability to download high detailed maps over specific areas.
Looking forward to the coming navigation update 😊
The map data sources that the app uses don't really allow for that, although the zoomed out tiles may help. So you could use Map Only mode on the watch, then zoom out and then pan across the area you are interested in. Every tile that is downloaded will be cached and then available when you are offline.
Another issue is that I have to pay for every map tile that is downloaded. This isn't ideal with the app's business model of a one-off payment. It actually means that people who have used the app regularly for a few years have probably cost me money rather than making any money! So adding the ability to download large areas (even with minimal data) would make things even worse. This means that it probably wouldn't be possible without me asking for some extra payment, which I don't want to do because it may deter people from buying the app in the first place.
Sorry about that. Maybe one day in the future if I ever build and maintain my own map tile server. But I have no plans to do that anytime soon.
Thank you for your reply and explanation. It’s a good idea just to pan over the are in a zoomed out state, but will the cache not automatically purge at some point?
And I love your pricing strategy! I will be sure to occasionally use the tip jar function of your fantastic app.
The cache is never cleared unless you specifically request it in the Settings.
Many thanks for tipping! I really appreciate that.
Hello, I have few queries before I buy this wonderful app
- Where can I find all the possible options when configuring the workout screen. I see tutorials on YT which shows some screens but couldnt find a list which shows all options for all sections
- Do you have a heart rate zone option to show on screen which shows my current HR in a visual section and I can see if I am close to lower or upper limit. My brain cant seem to remember the zone limits and just seeing a HR number or just knowing which zone am I in is not sufficient for me. Is hard to do mental math when running. I need to know where I am at in the zone visually. Current series 10 has this screen
- Can I jump forwards and backwards in custom interval workout. I can skip sections and go next but can I go to pervious section?
- Is there an option to keep screen on for a minute when I am running, even if I do wrist down gesture? I have set screen on time to 70s on watch but while running, I see stats and put hand away and screen goes off (AOD mode)
To answer your questions:
There is an overview of screen configurations here: http://www.workoutdoors.net/Workout.html
Zones are shown to 1 decimal place (e.g. "3.1"), which should help know where you are in a zone.
It is not possible to jump back during a schedule. That is very rarely requested.
The time that a screen is active for is controlled by watchOS. I think that the 70 seconds only works if you activate the screen by tapping it rather than by raising your wrist. However the screen should still be visible if you have AOD, so my guess is that you have not enabled AOD or have it configured to be disabled during workouts. For example if you use low power mode in a workout (which can be configured in the Workout section of Apple's Settings app on the watch).
There is an overview of screen configurations here: http://www.workoutdoors.net/Workout.html
Zones are shown to 1 decimal place (e.g. "3.1"), which should help know where you are in a zone.
It is not possible to jump back during a schedule. That is very rarely requested.
The time that a screen is active for is controlled by watchOS. I think that the 70 seconds only works if you activate the screen by tapping it rather than by raising your wrist. However the screen should still be visible if you have AOD, so my guess is that you have not enabled AOD or have it configured to be disabled during workouts. For example if you use low power mode in a workout (which can be configured in the Workout section of Apple's Settings app on the watch).
> There is an overview of screen configurations here: http://www.workoutdoors.net/Workout.html
Would you happen to have the list of all options available? I am looking for specific things that I need and this page does not have info on that
> Zones are shown to 1 decimal place (e.g. "3.1"), which should help know where you are in a zone.
So If I am in middle of zone 4, it would read as 4.5 or 4.6. Is that correct?
For screen timeout, I want full active screen and I do not want to goto AOD (I have AOD enabled by default). AOD refreshes only 1 per sec and I dont want that. Is there an option to keep screen active? Also Any images / photos on how your app looks when in AOD?
Thanks for the reply!
Would you happen to have the list of all options available? I am looking for specific things that I need and this page does not have info on that
> Zones are shown to 1 decimal place (e.g. "3.1"), which should help know where you are in a zone.
So If I am in middle of zone 4, it would read as 4.5 or 4.6. Is that correct?
For screen timeout, I want full active screen and I do not want to goto AOD (I have AOD enabled by default). AOD refreshes only 1 per sec and I dont want that. Is there an option to keep screen active? Also Any images / photos on how your app looks when in AOD?
Thanks for the reply!
There are 4 different layouts and 4 different text sizes that mean a different number of metrics. That is not documented anywhere though.
Yes, 4.5 is what is shown when exactly in the middle of zone 4.
WorkOutDoors looks the same with AOD as it always does. AOD just means that the app is visible when the watch is not active (e.g. lowered). The app only updates the screen every second so AOD makes no difference in that respect.
You could always buy the app and then get a refund after a few days if you don't like it.
Hey. I have read many of your posts here and I am wondering if you maybe considered switching to subscription based model? As a core model or, even better, as an add-on?
I'd solve a lot of the problems you were describing: tiles downloading payment, hiring UX designer etc.
I remember you saying "if the app gets popular enough". Today however it is missing features to be a go-to app for workouts (especially for people who expect Garmin-like experience).
From my wishlist:
- navigation with directions, rerouting and ETA+distance: must-have
- importing structured workouts (might be via watchletics, i don't mind): must-have
- automatic effort rating to use apple's training load - should-have
- better UX - nice-to-have
As for the price. I paid for AWU2 about 900 EUR. My previous Fenix was about same price tag. Runna subscription is 120 USD a year. TrainAsOne costs 10 GBP monthly.
Your app: i don't even remember, 10 EUR once like 5 years ago?
Maybe this is only my opinion, but I really don't mind paying for something that is really good and useful for me.
And I believe your app selling point is it is good, not cheap. You will never be cheaper than default free app. But for now, your app is totally unique as nobody offers good workout tracking + mapping on Apple Watch. Apple is pushing it's own maps, which is nowhere near to OSM, so it won't be a real alternative in next few years anywhere beside some most popular locations.
Just my 2 cents.
And I just tipped with "very generous tip", which I'd like to pay in subscription model when app will support what I listed above 🙂
Many thanks for the feedback and especially for tipping!
I may add a subscription in the future for features that require extra on-going costs. For example online route creation; more map types (e.g. satellite); larger map downloads; weather data etc.
That subscription may also provide the extra money to pay for features that would require me to hire someone, such as improving the UI; translation to other languages; and building a custom map server to enable offline routing and re-routing.
However at the moment I am focussed on the features that I can code myself without changing the pricing model: improved navigation; custom activity types; structured workout import/export; improved sensor support etc. When I have implemented those features then I plan to reassess what I do next.
It is possible that I may reassess earlier if user priorities change. For example adding the navigation features without including the ability to create routes within the iPhone app, or to do offline routing on the watch, could mean that I get loads of requests for those features. In that case then I may react accordingly and prioritise them, and they may require a subscription or an extra one-off payment.