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Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features
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As an update - this appears to be due to cadence lock. For anyone else experiencing it, the watch HR sensor can get confused at the start of a run and use a cadence measurement in place of a HR measurement until it gets a few good readings. The fact that you start running right away w/ a low heart rate and high cadence, low blood pressure, colder temps, looser on wrist, etc, can cause this to happen.
Using a chest strap will eliminate it entirely, or maybe a cadence pod on your shoes, but otherwise ensuring your watch is secured tightly, and perhaps a brief warmup before a workout to get good blood flow, will ameliorate.
EDIT: After playing with this a bit more, a slow takeoff seems to fix this. To be on the safe side, waiting a few seconds until after the run starts to ensure you get a HR lock also gets past this. I was taking off right when the countdown finished and have been running faster lately, so the higher cadence off the line probably was the difference.
Using a chest strap will eliminate it entirely, or maybe a cadence pod on your shoes, but otherwise ensuring your watch is secured tightly, and perhaps a brief warmup before a workout to get good blood flow, will ameliorate.
EDIT: After playing with this a bit more, a slow takeoff seems to fix this. To be on the safe side, waiting a few seconds until after the run starts to ensure you get a HR lock also gets past this. I was taking off right when the countdown finished and have been running faster lately, so the higher cadence off the line probably was the difference.
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Hey Everybody,
I'm racing my "A" race this coming weekend and that means it's tip time for Ian once again. I had a great training cycle and WOD was absolutely essential to helping me train EXACTLY how I wanted to train. For example (and I have plenty of them), on a single training run, I can do a warm-up by HR, marathon-pace intervals according to pace, then a few threshold intervals targeting power (with Stryd) but with a HR alert in case I get too frisky, and a cool down by HR... and every moment I can see AND hear AND feel exactly the data I want when I want it. I know this sounds gushy, but there is no other piece of tech in my life that is exactly what I want, all the time. In its niche, WOD app is a masterpiece. Much appreciated.
I'm racing my "A" race this coming weekend and that means it's tip time for Ian once again. I had a great training cycle and WOD was absolutely essential to helping me train EXACTLY how I wanted to train. For example (and I have plenty of them), on a single training run, I can do a warm-up by HR, marathon-pace intervals according to pace, then a few threshold intervals targeting power (with Stryd) but with a HR alert in case I get too frisky, and a cool down by HR... and every moment I can see AND hear AND feel exactly the data I want when I want it. I know this sounds gushy, but there is no other piece of tech in my life that is exactly what I want, all the time. In its niche, WOD app is a masterpiece. Much appreciated.
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On the topic of racing...
I've been playing around with "race day" screens and I like the idea of having "time vs target" as a field. I have it set-up on my goal pace and ready to go. I played with it the other day and it seems to work like I expect. But what am I seeing in the "time vs interval target" field if I'm just using an "open" run (no intervals set in WOD)? I thought it might give me the "time vs target for my auto lap distance" (1km) and reset every km, but I tried that and that's not it. But it's not the same as "time vs. target." I'd appreciate guidance if anyone can explain this to me. Thanks everybody
I've been playing around with "race day" screens and I like the idea of having "time vs target" as a field. I have it set-up on my goal pace and ready to go. I played with it the other day and it seems to work like I expect. But what am I seeing in the "time vs interval target" field if I'm just using an "open" run (no intervals set in WOD)? I thought it might give me the "time vs target for my auto lap distance" (1km) and reset every km, but I tried that and that's not it. But it's not the same as "time vs. target." I'd appreciate guidance if anyone can explain this to me. Thanks everybody
If you are not using an interval schedule then that metric works with the current manual interval (not the lap). So if you start a new interval (e.g. by using the action button or some other shortcut) then it would show how you are performing vs the target time for that particular interval.
So it works the same as the "time vs target" metric but only for the current interval. Maybe I should have created a separate metric for it (and the distance version of it).
Many thanks for your kind words about the app!
Hiya, great app. This app keeps me on an Apple Watch and I’ve been using it for years. Thank you for all your efforts.
I have an issue with volume for spoken alerts, especially when interval training where it’s useful to hear the target pace. The voice is very quiet. I’ve maxed it in the WOD app settings, on the speaker symbol in the Watch (with WiFi quick toggles etc) and in the Watch settings sounds & haptics. Text message alerts and other apps are loud, but these spoken alerts seem quiet. Is there anything I’m possibly missing? My workaround is to get announcements via my phone, but I don’t always have it with me.
I have an issue with volume for spoken alerts, especially when interval training where it’s useful to hear the target pace. The voice is very quiet. I’ve maxed it in the WOD app settings, on the speaker symbol in the Watch (with WiFi quick toggles etc) and in the Watch settings sounds & haptics. Text message alerts and other apps are loud, but these spoken alerts seem quiet. Is there anything I’m possibly missing? My workaround is to get announcements via my phone, but I don’t always have it with me.
Glad you like the app. It uses Siri to speak, so please check the Siri volume. To check this go to Apple’s Settings app on the watch and tap Siri, then Siri Responses, and then make sure the volume is at maximum. I hope that helps.
Not sure if this will work for you, but while Siri is speaking ("Pace in target range." "High Heart Rate." "Wash those damn socks.") raise the volume on your headphones. On the headphones themselves. And while Siri is speaking. It seems to make a difference for me. YMMV.
RE: Automatic Training Load Calc
I know this was an unaswered question a couple of months ago. I found this messing around in the Health app today (since my DOMS is so bad after my race that I can do little else 😓).
So Automatic Training Load doesn't work for me. In the fitness app, the "Vitals" works, but the training load has nothing except the option to estimate, which I didn't like because I'd prefer it be calculated "objectively."
In my Health app, at the bottom of the "Workouts" screen, I have something called "Show additional workout items." Clicking in, I see three submenus with one called "Show All Estimated Workout Effort." And it's all there! All of my workouts rated on a scale of 1-9 since Oct 30 2024. In the Fitness app, Effort looks like it's measured 1-10 (10 dots along the bottom of the little chart), though. My marathon two days ago wasn't a 10? Well, yeah, maybe... felt pretty 10ish to me
. Anyway, it looks like an estimate is being recorded but not fed to the fitness app. In the "Sources and Access," Fitness is not listed as an access option (nor is anything else). So I don't know if that's helpful to anyone. I guess I could go back and manually feed the estimates since October into the workouts recorded in the Fitness app (I'm taking the next 10 days off from running... what better way to spend my time?).
If this has all been discovered already, sorry 😁.
I know this was an unaswered question a couple of months ago. I found this messing around in the Health app today (since my DOMS is so bad after my race that I can do little else 😓).
So Automatic Training Load doesn't work for me. In the fitness app, the "Vitals" works, but the training load has nothing except the option to estimate, which I didn't like because I'd prefer it be calculated "objectively."
In my Health app, at the bottom of the "Workouts" screen, I have something called "Show additional workout items." Clicking in, I see three submenus with one called "Show All Estimated Workout Effort." And it's all there! All of my workouts rated on a scale of 1-9 since Oct 30 2024. In the Fitness app, Effort looks like it's measured 1-10 (10 dots along the bottom of the little chart), though. My marathon two days ago wasn't a 10? Well, yeah, maybe... felt pretty 10ish to me
. Anyway, it looks like an estimate is being recorded but not fed to the fitness app. In the "Sources and Access," Fitness is not listed as an access option (nor is anything else). So I don't know if that's helpful to anyone. I guess I could go back and manually feed the estimates since October into the workouts recorded in the Fitness app (I'm taking the next 10 days off from running... what better way to spend my time?).If this has all been discovered already, sorry 😁.
The whole area of training load is slightly vague at the moment. As far as I know Apple have not published any documentation about it for developers (something several of us have complained about).RE: Automatic Training Load Calc
I know this was an unaswered question a couple of months ago. I found this messing around in the Health app today (since my DOMS is so bad after my race that I can do little else 😓).
So Automatic Training Load doesn't work for me. In the fitness app, the "Vitals" works, but the training load has nothing except the option to estimate, which I didn't like because I'd prefer it be calculated "objectively."
In my Health app, at the bottom of the "Workouts" screen, I have something called "Show additional workout items." Clicking in, I see three submenus with one called "Show All Estimated Workout Effort." And it's all there! All of my workouts rated on a scale of 1-9 since Oct 30 2024. In the Fitness app, Effort looks like it's measured 1-10 (10 dots along the bottom of the little chart), though. My marathon two days ago wasn't a 10? Well, yeah, maybe... felt pretty 10ish to me
If this has all been discovered already, sorry 😁.
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This is my current understanding based on Apple's code headers and from one of their developers who kindly responded to my questions on their forums:
There are 2 "sample" types: WorkoutEffort and EstimatedWorkoutEffort. The former is set by the user and the latter is calculated by Apple for some of the more popular activity types.
When I coded up the beta the estimated effort did not seem to be calculated for workouts created by third party apps such as WOD. However after seeing your post I checked the Health app and like you I can now see estimated effort score samples in the Health app, so it looks like that may have been fixed.
Like you these estimated values don't seem to be used by the Fitness app, which only shows the non-estimated values set by the beta version of WOD.
Now that Apple are creating the estimated scores my intention is to use them as a default for the values that the user sets (assuming that they are created quickly enough after a workout). However that area of the app is now on the back burner whilst I work on the navigation. Also the longer I put it off the more chance there is that Apple will publish some information on what developers are expected to do. Although I am not holding my breath because documentation rarely appears this long after a new feature is added.
Thanks for sharing that. I imagine most WOD users (like me) who care about things like training load are probably already using something more advanced (Runalyze, TrainingPeaks, etc) than their iOS Fitness app for that kind of analysis anyway. But I'm also a running tech geek and a WOD fanboy and I thought you might be interested. Cheers.
Happens all the time with my hiking and walking workouts. I always wait to get a lock.
This is good advice. If you have problems with heart rate at the beginning of a workout then tap the 3 dots and then Open Workout. This shows a big green start button, and also shows the heart rate at the top. Then wait for a reasonable heart rate to appear before tapping start.
If you always do this then enable Precision Start in the Start Options settings and it will show the start screen direct from tapping an option on the main menu. For some people this may only be necessary when it is cold and your blood vessels are further from the surface, but others may enable it all year round.
Waiting for a lock before starting helps when you see no heart rate or when you see a very high heart rate (cadence lock). In both cases it is easier for the watch to get a lock on your heart rate when you are not moving.
Hello, first of all I love the app and I’ve been using it for years now, but I have a mildly annoying problem when swimming and I have found no info about it.
When I’m swimming backwards or swimming only with my legs (not using arms) the apple watch doesn’t register the lap.
Im using an apple watch 3, I don’t know if a newer one will fix the problem or it happens to everyone.
Thanks in advance
When I’m swimming backwards or swimming only with my legs (not using arms) the apple watch doesn’t register the lap.
Im using an apple watch 3, I don’t know if a newer one will fix the problem or it happens to everyone.
Thanks in advance
WOD uses Apple's workout system, which does the lap detection. I am not surprised that it can't detect laps when you aren't using your arms but it should be able to detect a standard backstroke.
Maybe someone else can say as to whether stroke detection improved for them when upgrading from a series 3 to a newer watch?
Was the value similar to your cadence? If so then it was probably cadence lock, which can happen at any time, but especially early on.
It's interesting that no-one had mentioned cadence lock issues for several years but I have heard of it a couple of times recently. It's too early to tell but maybe Apple have made the watch worse in that respect recently.
You may need to use an external chest strap, which uses a different method for reading your heart-rate (electrical vs optical). Some people use them when it's cold and some people need them all year round.
First-time poster here. I'm a cyclist who does multi-hour gravel rides out of cel range, I use a power meter and a HR strap. My Wahoo head unit died and while waiting for replacement needed something to track my rides/metrics. some googling led me to WOD and I tried it yesterday on a 6-hour ride with my Watch Series 7.
Pros I noticed:
- blown away by the capability, comprehensiveness, details, maps
- connected to sensors just fine
- loaded a route from RideWithGps without issue
- clear notifications when off-course
- recording workouts seems accurate
Trouble I had
1) workout stopped spontaneously (it seemed) after 1h44m (seemed like app crashed but unsure. Maybe I tapped something inadvertently). I noticed and restarted. Is this a known issue?
2) Didn't see a screen with my power metrics during workout - (I realize this is very configurable and I didn't take time to customize screens at all)
3) S7 Watch battery died before ride was over (total workout time recorded 4h30m). (watch probably at 80%+ before starting)
Sadly, this last one could be a deal-killer for me. Before I request a refund, are there known issues with heavy battery drain on S7 - era devices? Would love to make this app work but I'm not infrequently on rides from 4-7 hours.
Thanks!
Pros I noticed:
- blown away by the capability, comprehensiveness, details, maps
- connected to sensors just fine
- loaded a route from RideWithGps without issue
- clear notifications when off-course
- recording workouts seems accurate
Trouble I had
1) workout stopped spontaneously (it seemed) after 1h44m (seemed like app crashed but unsure. Maybe I tapped something inadvertently). I noticed and restarted. Is this a known issue?
2) Didn't see a screen with my power metrics during workout - (I realize this is very configurable and I didn't take time to customize screens at all)
3) S7 Watch battery died before ride was over (total workout time recorded 4h30m). (watch probably at 80%+ before starting)
Sadly, this last one could be a deal-killer for me. Before I request a refund, are there known issues with heavy battery drain on S7 - era devices? Would love to make this app work but I'm not infrequently on rides from 4-7 hours.
Thanks!
Thanks for buying the app. You may have ended the workout by accident. Please send the wkt file for the workout to info@workoutdoors.net and I will take a look. To do this tap the Export button 3 times quickly.
The app does not show a power screen by default because most cyclists don't have power meters. However it is easy to add one by using the Screens tab on the iPhone app.
Battery usage by the app is about the same as Apple's app. It sounds like you would have got about 5.5 hours with a full charge. This is pretty much what Apple stated for the watch when it was new, so that is actually good for an older watch.
However there are ways that you can improve on this. With older watches like the series 7 it helps to bring your iPhone with you so that it can supply the GPS. Other things that can help are:
- switch on low power mode (it does not affect GPS or HR).
- switch off always on display (although that should be automatic with low power mode)
- switch off cellular if the watch has it (again that should be automatic with low power mode)
- switch off wake on wrist raise (so you need to tap the screen to see it)
- do not use the watch for anything else, especially audio
- reboot the watch on the day
- do not install any watchOS or iOS updates in the days beforehand
I've seen a couple posts on this HR reporting high early in the workout / cadence lock issue and Ian I saw your initial reply that you hadn't heard of it happening very often or to very many people. I've been using WOD since 2022, and I definitely notice this issue. To my mind, the timeline was something like... HR data reported falsely high for a long time of my initial use. Then you introduced the HR lock / precision start screen feature and it really did seem to almost completely eliminate the bad early HR data for a while. Then some software updates happened (both you and Apple, and I would have no idea which one was the root cause) I want to say early last year but I can't pinpoint it without going through some old data that is hard to get to because through phone and watch updates, I don't have all of my legacy WOD activities easily accessible.
I guess my first instinct when something like that happens isn't to fire off a note because for most products I'm not directly connected with someone who might actually be able to do something about it. Plus, for this issue, I just always figured it likely happens to everyone and was probably a known flaw that had something to do with how apple sends the data. I do have a chest strap and you are correct, flawed early activity HR data does not occur when I use that, but I prefer not wearing it (unless I'm doing multi-sport... as I wear the chest strap primarily for cycling).
Anyway, I love WOD. This is a frustrating though pretty minor flaw for me (waiting for a HR lock really did work well for so long!), and not worth starting to wear a chest strap for me for every run. But since the discussion is rolling, I'll add myself to the voices of folks who experience flawed early activity data, even if waiting for a HR lock, when utilizing the watch HR sensor.
Thanks,
John
FWIW I get HR lock issues with the default Apple workout apps. Lots of time with Apple support and they basically concluded it's me as the watch worked well on my wife's wrist.
my walking HR would be more like 70-80 on the with a dog sniffing around, this is what a bad 3km walk looked like!
If I notice it's way out before I start either WOD or Apple workouts I often use the ECG app for 20 secs which seems to help.
my walking HR would be more like 70-80 on the with a dog sniffing around, this is what a bad 3km walk looked like!
If I notice it's way out before I start either WOD or Apple workouts I often use the ECG app for 20 secs which seems to help.
That's interesting. Maybe cadence lock got slightly more likely last year but not enough that people have reported it to me.
Nothing has changed in the app for many years in terms of reading the values - it just asks the watchOS health/workout system to be informed of heart rate readings. The last change was probably 6 years ago when they introduced a new workout system with watchOS 5 which really simplified things for apps like WOD.
In fact this Winter has been far better than previous years in terms of the number of emails I get about heart rate issues. It is usually the most common complaint during the colder months but has gradually improved over the years and has been much better this year.
When users are having issues then my reply includes a link to Apple's heart rate help page, so I just searched for that link in my sent emails. It showed that I have only sent an email about heart issues about once every week or two so far this Winter, whereas I sent an email every couple of days in past years.
So maybe Apple have generally improved the heart sensor hardware and/or software but at the expense of slightly increasing the chance of a cadence lock for some people.
I have heard this before with the Heart app. I suspect the reason that using either the Heart or ECG app helps both WOD and Apple's Workout app to get an HR lock is because the watch uses infra red light for one-off readings (like the ECG or Heart apps) but green light for regular readings (such as during a workout).
So it could be that the using the infra red light makes a lock possible and then the green light is able to maintain that lock despite not being able to get it in the first place.
If you have an api call to the infra-red light and you are interested in a solution (perhaps adding a call to the red light into your start screen launch process or something), i'd be happy to dig through any of my old data if any of it would be helpful. But, I know you're busy and I suspect this wouldn't be easy... as nothing is ever easy. Save for that time you coded up the orange bar behind the pause graphic seemingly over night. That was sweet.