Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[cfc]

Thanks for the info. I didn't pay attention about the difference between the auto-lap and the distance notification. The distance notficiation gives me my pace at each k and I confused it with the auto-lap. It looks like the auto-lap was on manual, I turned it back to automatic and will try on the next run.

About the summary page, it is the one on the watch you see after you end the activity and where you have the "done" and "discard" choice at the top. I went out for a short walk this time and took a snapshot (attached). Here the distance appears.
I may have been looking too fast this morning. Will check again on the next run. It is cold here in Ottawa, Canada (already in the minus double digits), and I might have remove and put my glove back on too quickly lol.

By the way, another illustration of the lack of reliability (Apple side) of the HR reading on this walk. It didn't latch on an HR at all. When I run, I exclusively use external HR with BT.

Thanks again for all your help.

Soon this app will be tried on snow-showing and cross country skiing !

Thanks for that. Glad to hear that you were using manual laps, which explains the lack of info for the previous lap.

On a slightly related subject I am considering adding the new intervals functionality as a third option for the laps (alongside auto and manual). I think that it would make things overly complex to split the workout in terms of both laps and intervals, so I will probably make intervals another way of deciding when laps start.

If anyone thinks otherwise though, then please let me know. Would it make sense to have laps within workouts? I will separate the notifications so you can get several of them during an interval/lap, but I don't plan to have multiple levels of lap/interval segments. At least at first.

I hope that the missing distance was a "looking" error, but please look out in the future.

Unfortunately the watch can sometimes take a while to get a HR lock. One of the things I will look into for the next version is to do something similar to what the app does with GPS, in terms of showing the signal strength on the main menu before you start a workout, so that you can wait for a good lock before starting. This is easier with GPS than HR because the GPS is requested separately from the workout, whereas the HR currently needs a workout to be running, but hopefully there is some way around that.

I'l also see if I can find a decent bear-detection algorithm...

 

[Otto Pilot]

Excellent, please keep us posted. I will continue with iSmoothRun for the time being, however as soon as this functionality is there I will be all in.

I am the user that did some pretty extensive testing of the various watch apps and interval training a couple of months ago, and posted some results in this or one of the other threads on this amazing app. In my experience, using Intervals Pro with WorkOutDoors is surperior to ismoothrun or any other standalone running app that I was able to find/test. WorkOutDoors has hands-down the best data tracking and compatibility with Apple Health for all of its data fields of any workout app in the app store. Stacked with Intervals Pro, you can have the benefit of guided interval workouts and the Garmin-level workout tracking of this app. I cannot wait to test integrated intervals in WOD, but until that day comes, you really should give the combo a try.

 

[FunkyMagicUK]

Are swipes supposed to still work when the screen lock function is used?

 

[cfc]

Are swipes supposed to still work when the screen lock function is used?

Good question. In theory no, but in practice yes, due to a bug. Sorry about that. I will fix it in the next version!

 

[spacemnspiff]

Thanks so much for the update, I am happy that you provide native Strava export now. I don't have to use RunGap anymore.

One bug I found in the iPhone app was the maps will lose the run track on the map when I am toggling between laps and maps. I have force shut the app and reload it for it to restore. I have an iPhone 6s.

I also like the new app icon better.

 

[cfc]

Thanks so much for the update, I am happy that you provide native Strava export now. I don't have to use RunGap anymore.

One bug I found in the iPhone app was the maps will lose the run track on the map when I am toggling between laps and maps. I have force shut the app and reload it for it to restore. I have an iPhone 6s.

I also like the new app icon better.

Glad you like the recent changes. I can't reproduce the bug you mention by randomly toggling between laps and maps. Does it still happen for you, and if so is it only for some workouts or for all of them?

 

[spacemnspiff]

Glad you like the recent changes. I can't reproduce the bug you mention by randomly toggling between laps and maps. Does it still happen for you, and if so is it only for some workouts or for all of them?

I just use running activity, I can take a screenshot next time it happens. It started happening very recently, might be after the new app release, and happens right after a new workout.
Is there any other data/log that I can provide you to troubleshoot?

 

[cfc]

Thanks for that. If you could send a screenshot to info@workoutdoors.net the next time it happens then that would be great. Also, when it next happens, then could you see if switching to another workout and back again cures it?

In the meantime I will try to reproduce it. I couldn't just now but I may need to try creating a new workout with a lot of laps.

 

[rbart]

There is one feature I'd really like to use when running trails with a GPX route loaded into the app: to preview the elavation graph of all the journey with something on the graph to show me where I am and how long are the next climbs ...
I think "real" sport watch like Fenix have this very useful feature and I think that the app is almost ready for this feature.

 

[cfc]

There is one feature I'd really like to use when running trails with a GPX route loaded into the app: to preview the elavation graph of all the journey with something on the graph to show me where I am and how long are the next climbs ...
I think "real" sport watch like Fenix have this very useful feature and I think that the app is almost ready for this feature.

That is high on my To Do list. I haven't decided whether to leave it for the "improved maps and navigation" version of the app, or to include it in the next version, which will be mainly about intervals and indoor workouts.

 

[rbart]

It's great news, it can be a game changer to provide this very useful app for trail runners !
Navigation can also be great, but can be difficult to develop and integrate in the UI.

 

[purpleparrotuk]

Hi. I've accidentally finished a cycle instead of a walk. Is there no way to change it?

 

[cfc]

Hi. I've accidentally finished a cycle instead of a walk. Is there no way to change it?

There is no way to do that at the moment. Sorry about that.

 

[purpleparrotuk]

There is no way to do that at the moment. Sorry about that.

Thanks. My own fault.

 

[stridemat]

Thanks for the info. I didn't pay attention about the difference between the auto-lap and the distance notification. The distance notficiation gives me my pace at each k and I confused it with the auto-lap. It looks like the auto-lap was on manual, I turned it back to automatic and will try on the next run.

About the summary page, it is the one on the watch you see after you end the activity and where you have the "done" and "discard" choice at the top. I went out for a short walk this time and took a snapshot (attached). Here the distance appears.
I may have been looking too fast this morning. Will check again on the next run. It is cold here in Ottawa, Canada (already in the minus double digits), and I might have remove and put my glove back on too quickly lol.

By the way, another illustration of the lack of reliability (Apple side) of the HR reading on this walk. It didn't latch on an HR at all. When I run, I exclusively use external HR with BT.

Thanks again for all your help.

Soon this app will be tried on snow-showing and cross country skiing !

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[doublepost=1542581923][/doublepost]

Hi @stridemat
I have been doing more trail running recently and we have a large park here near where I live (Ottawa, Canada). The app uses "openstreetmap" as base for the mapping which is great as it even shows all unofficial trails ! I create my route (gpx file) on ridewithgps and import it on Workoutdoors. The hollow feature is awesome, you can see trail number or street name under your marked route. Didn't get lost so far .... but the map doesn't show bears locations ☺️ ... yes we have bears here !

Haha, I don’t think there are many bears is the New Forest, perhaps some wild ponies to dodge . Good luck to you
[doublepost=1543170987][/doublepost]

I am the user that did some pretty extensive testing of the various watch apps and interval training a couple of months ago, and posted some results in this or one of the other threads on this amazing app. In my experience, using Intervals Pro with WorkOutDoors is surperior to ismoothrun or any other standalone running app that I was able to find/test. WorkOutDoors has hands-down the best data tracking and compatibility with Apple Health for all of its data fields of any workout app in the app store. Stacked with Intervals Pro, you can have the benefit of guided interval workouts and the Garmin-level workout tracking of this app. I cannot wait to test integrated intervals in WOD, but until that day comes, you really should give the combo a try.

Thanks for the review. How do you find running two running apps on your watch? Any issue with battery life / performance?

 

[slowrunner]

This app is really great. Thanks for your hard work!
I currently have a garmin 235 and now switch to Apple Watch. At the Garmin I have a function for races which I would like to have on the Apple Watch. Therefore my question if you can integrate this "race screen" into your great app. This will also help the runner to improve the accuracy of the pace of the apple watch.
I added the description from the Garmin QI Store here:

"Race Screen is a data field that displays the most relevant information for running a race or training.
It also corrects the difference between the GPS-measured distance and the actual race course distance: pressing the lap button when passing a course marker rounds the distance it displays and adjusts the average pace accordingly.
If you set a race distance, it predicts your finish time.

When running a race, the distance measured by a GPS device often differs from the official course distance, since it is difficult to always follow the shortest line and GPS has an error margin.
This can affect your plans since the average pace displayed by your device may be inaccurate.
Race Screen can help.
Triggering a manual lap when passing a course marker rounds the distance to the nearest km or mile (depending on your distance unit) and adjusts the average pace accordingly.
If Race Screen shows 22.17km and you trigger a manual lap, it assumes you are passing the 22km marker and subtracts 0.17km from the GPS-measured distance; it also adjusts the average pace accordingly.
The rounding can be upwards or downwards. You do not need to trigger a lap every course marker, any new lap rounds the currently displayed distance again.
When an adjustment is being applied, grid lines turn red.
Triggering a lap twice within 15 seconds removes all adjustments.

If you set a race distance, Race Screen also predicts your finish time. If you set a target time, the background changes color when you are behind target."

 

[rbart]

It's a very interesting feature when you race, but I don't know if cfc can add that if it's not integrated in apple workout api ...

 

[newtestleper]

That is high on my To Do list. I haven't decided whether to leave it for the "improved maps and navigation" version of the app, or to include it in the next version, which will be mainly about intervals and indoor workouts.

WorkOutdoorsAndIn.

 

[cfc]

This app is really great. Thanks for your hard work!
I currently have a garmin 235 and now switch to Apple Watch. At the Garmin I have a function for races which I would like to have on the Apple Watch. Therefore my question if you can integrate this "race screen" into your great app. This will also help the runner to improve the accuracy of the pace of the apple watch.
I added the description from the Garmin QI Store here:

"Race Screen is a data field that displays the most relevant information for running a race or training.
It also corrects the difference between the GPS-measured distance and the actual race course distance: pressing the lap button when passing a course marker rounds the distance it displays and adjusts the average pace accordingly.
If you set a race distance, it predicts your finish time.

When running a race, the distance measured by a GPS device often differs from the official course distance, since it is difficult to always follow the shortest line and GPS has an error margin.
This can affect your plans since the average pace displayed by your device may be inaccurate.
Race Screen can help.
Triggering a manual lap when passing a course marker rounds the distance to the nearest km or mile (depending on your distance unit) and adjusts the average pace accordingly.
If Race Screen shows 22.17km and you trigger a manual lap, it assumes you are passing the 22km marker and subtracts 0.17km from the GPS-measured distance; it also adjusts the average pace accordingly.
The rounding can be upwards or downwards. You do not need to trigger a lap every course marker, any new lap rounds the currently displayed distance again.
When an adjustment is being applied, grid lines turn red.
Triggering a lap twice within 15 seconds removes all adjustments.

If you set a race distance, Race Screen also predicts your finish time. If you set a target time, the background changes color when you are behind target."

The Race Screen is a very interesting idea. I could implement it in terms of the analysis in the WorkOutDoors iPhone app but, as @rbart says, there may be issues in terms of changing the distance within Apple's workout API.

Also I am not sure what it would mean for the exported GPX file, which has positions rather than distances. It would be hard to retroactively change the positions to allow for the adjusted distance. It would be interesting to see what Garmin do with this.

Having said that I will certainly have a think about it because it does seem a very useful feature. It could be that I can over-ride the distances in HealthKit by adding adjusted distance "samples" and if I were to export a different format than GPX then maybe it could contain separate distance and position values.
[doublepost=1543226790][/doublepost]

WorkOutdoorsAndIn.

Catchy!

I did actually consider a map-free version of the app that could be cheaper and called WorkInDoors, but I figured the name would be confusing without the context of WorkOutDoors.

 

[slowrunner]

Race screen would be great!
However, the field with the expected end time for the race at the current pace, if you previously entered the distance of the race track, is this possible? This has nothing to do with the workoutAPI??

 

[cfc]

Race screen would be great!
However, the field with the expected end time for the race at the current pace, if you previously entered the distance of the race track, is this possible? This has nothing to do with the workoutAPI??

That will probably be in the next version. I am currently adding intervals functionality and a simple specified distance would be a subset of that - a single interval with a given distance. I plan to add metrics like ETA as part of this functionality. When the app has a known distance or time then it can easily estimate the time/distance at the end.

Note that this won't be the same from the user's point of view - setting a distance will not require you to create an interval schedule (unless you want to). Instead it will probably work in a similar way to Apple's workout app with a "..." option when starting that allows you to specify a distance or time instead of the usual "open" workout. However behind the scenes I will probably implement this by using the intervals functionality that I am currently adding.

I hope that makes some sense?

 

[slowrunner]

That sounds good, if I understand correctly.
The important thing is that you have a field that you can configure with the distance of the race and that calculated on the basis of the current pace during the race again and again the current end time.

I think it's absolutely great that you are so on the wishes and ideas of the user and want to implement this!
Once again thank you, great app and great Service!

 

[FunkyMagicUK]

How would you calculate finishing time, just by using average pace, or configurable to use a different metric??

I’d quite like to see a “estimated finish time assuming pace of the last rolling km” calculation to be honest...that’s a metric that would encourage me to “keep going” or push a bit harder. If you base estimated completion on average pace, but you’re slowly fading, it can be difficult to notice that the average has dropped until it’s too late to do anything about it.

 

[cfc]

How would you calculate finishing time, just by using average pace, or configurable to use a different metric??

I’d quite like to see a “estimated finish time assuming pace of the last rolling km” calculation to be honest...that’s a metric that would encourage me to “keep going” or push a bit harder. If you base estimated completion on average pace, but you’re slowly fading, it can be difficult to notice that the average has dropped until it’s too late to do anything about it.

To be honest I haven't thought that far ahead yet but it makes sense to make the pace used in the calculation configurable. I may give the user the option of choosing from any average pace metric, such as overall average pace, rolling pace, lap pace, previous lap pace etc.

There are 3 different rolling pace metrics, each of which can be configured to use a particular time or distance interval, so if the user picked one of those then they could configure how the ETA is calculated in pretty much any way they wanted.

If a GPX route with elevations is being followed then I may take the gradient into account when calculating, so for instance it could allow for a route that ended in a steep uphill section.

This is all speculation though as I haven't even started writing any of this yet. However it's good to have an idea in my head of what I need to do, so thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Otto Pilot]

Haha, I don’t think there are many bears is the New Forest, perhaps some wild ponies to dodge . Good luck to you
[doublepost=1543170987][/doublepost]

Thanks for the review. How do you find running two running apps on your watch? Any issue with battery life / performance?

I have not noticed any battery or performance hit from running the two apps simultaneously. This morning I did a 30 minute run with WOD and Intervals running, GPS on, LTE on streaming Apple Music, internal Heart Rate monitor on, with Music to Powerbeats 3s (so basically taxing every battery-draining component) and I ended up at 92% from 100 on Series 4 Watch. Intervals includes the option to disable workout tracking altogether when run with another fitness app. This means that it just counts the intervals and provides the audio cues. There are a couple of little nuances to this that make me VERY excited the WOD will soon include this without the need for the secondary app:
1. If you have audio (specifically voice) cues for both WOD and Intervals, I have seen the ones from WOD stay permanently quiet after the fisrt one from Intervals goes off. I assume this has something to do with audio channels or the like. I disable vocal prompts from WOD and use haptics for its periodic reminders based on distance.
2. Figuring out how to keep WOD as the app in focus is a bit tricky. From what I can tell, this is a combination of using the Watch setting to keep the last app in focus for X time AND making sure that WOD is higher up in your Dock. Aside from the Apple native apps (Workouts) which seem to always give up focus to Intervals (which is bad because by disabling fitness tracking you get NO data on screen other than time), multiple third party apps seem to keep the one with higher dock position in focus. No idea if this is actually what happens, but it seems to work.