Sorry about that. To my shame I have never tested the app in zoomed mode. I can see what you mean though so I will try to allow for it in future versions.
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Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features
- Thread starter cfc
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It is ok. It is better than previous version, which had black bars, due to zoomed mode on 12/12 pro being a new point resolution only supported in latest x-code.
Just to be clear it is the zoomed mode in settings>display & brightness, not to be confused with the accessibility zoom.
Yes, that is what I just tried and noticed that you couldn't see the bottom of some screens. Hopefully I will be able to get around that.
You’re an amazing one man show, Ian. Love the app! Looking forward to Stryd power integration ??
Hi Ian! Love the new update. Couple of things:
1. Same as others, Watch app didn't update on it's own.
2. If You remember my elevation problems (graph different than the metrics - tested on AW 4 and AW6) is now solved and its all great (almost).
3. See the interval 3 and 4 od the attachment. No ascent and descent but there were "ups and downs". See the graph (FYI its perfect). Other intervals are on point with the graph.
4. You told that the absolute altitude is from AW barometer, but it never shows the same altitude as in compass and in Apple workout. It works, but they aren't the same. Why is that? Tested on iP X + AW and iP 11 Pro Max + AW 6
5. Sometimes I have problems with map artifacts. The route is staying very large and not scaling - happens on iP and Apple Watch. That was happening also in previous versions. I have to restart the app to make it work.
6. Instant pace seems to be better now. But with the stock app (AW6 without phone) I get much better results and also it's quite more responsive. This is a test 4 km walk/run data from HealthFit and a white graph from raw FIT file with no smoothing, that is automatically back-up on my iCloud. For me that data is just great for a watch without any external sensors. I understand, that data is the same for WOD and Training app, but all the "magic" happens in the app?
Don't get me wrong. You're doing a great job, your app is the best on the market. I just want to help improve it and make sure all of this data is correct. I'm the guy who thinks, "If it's not accurate, better not measure it."
1. Same as others, Watch app didn't update on it's own.
2. If You remember my elevation problems (graph different than the metrics - tested on AW 4 and AW6) is now solved and its all great (almost).
3. See the interval 3 and 4 od the attachment. No ascent and descent but there were "ups and downs". See the graph (FYI its perfect). Other intervals are on point with the graph.
4. You told that the absolute altitude is from AW barometer, but it never shows the same altitude as in compass and in Apple workout. It works, but they aren't the same. Why is that? Tested on iP X + AW and iP 11 Pro Max + AW 6
5. Sometimes I have problems with map artifacts. The route is staying very large and not scaling - happens on iP and Apple Watch. That was happening also in previous versions. I have to restart the app to make it work.
6. Instant pace seems to be better now. But with the stock app (AW6 without phone) I get much better results and also it's quite more responsive. This is a test 4 km walk/run data from HealthFit and a white graph from raw FIT file with no smoothing, that is automatically back-up on my iCloud. For me that data is just great for a watch without any external sensors. I understand, that data is the same for WOD and Training app, but all the "magic" happens in the app?
Don't get me wrong. You're doing a great job, your app is the best on the market. I just want to help improve it and make sure all of this data is correct. I'm the guy who thinks, "If it's not accurate, better not measure it."
Thanks for the feedback. To address each point:Hi Ian! Love the new update. Couple of things:
1. Same as others, Watch app didn't update on it's own.
2. If You remember my elevation problems (graph different than the metrics - tested on AW 4 and AW6) is now solved and its all great (almost).
3. See the interval 3 and 4 od the attachment. No ascent and descent but there were "ups and downs". See the graph (FYI its perfect). Other intervals are on point with the graph.
View attachment 1724060
4. You told that the absolute altitude is from AW barometer, but it never shows the same altitude as in compass and in Apple workout. It works, but they aren't the same. Why is that? Tested on iP X + AW and iP 11 Pro Max + AW 6
5. Sometimes I have problems with map artifacts. The route is staying very large and not scaling - happens on iP and Apple Watch. That was happening also in previous versions. I have to restart the app to make it work.
View attachment 1724069
6. Instant pace seems to be better now. But with the stock app (AW6 without phone) I get much better results and also it's quite more responsive. This is a test 4 km walk/run data from HealthFit and a white graph from raw FIT file with no smoothing, that is automatically back-up on my iCloud. For me that data is just great for a watch without any external sensors. I understand, that data is the same for WOD and Training app, but all the "magic" happens in the app?
View attachment 1724096
Don't get me wrong. You're doing a great job, your app is the best on the market. I just want to help improve it and make sure all of this data is correct. I'm the guy who thinks, "If it's not accurate, better not measure it."
1) It sounds like the lack of the watch app updating is even worse now. I am wondering if Apple are doing it deliberately for some reason, not realising that the vast majority of people would expect the watch app to automatically update with the iPhone app. I plan to investigate today and see what I can do about it (if anything).
2) Glad that the elevation looks better. The only change in that area is that the app now ignores sudden jumps near the beginning of the workout that are probably because someone started a workout inside a building/car and then moved outside.
3) The ascent and descent for those intervals were so small that they were probably smoothed out. This is only really an issue on generally flat routes. It is a fine line judging the amount of smoothing to perform. It is necessary because the sensor uses air pressure, which varies for all sorts of reasons, including the weather. Too much smoothing can makes bumpy routes look too flat, but too little smoothing means that every tiny change in air pressure can make a flat route look bumpy.
As I say it is only really an issue for generally flat routes like that one. WatchOS only reports the elevation to the nearest metre so on a flat route at say 1.5m then tiny changes in pressure can make it seem to fluctuate between 1m and 2m, which is why the app smooths it. Whereas on a route that slowly climbs from 1m to 10m then the air pressure changes make little effect. So the total error is less and the error as a percentage of the total ascent/descent is massively less. So the bumpier the route (which is when people are generally most interested in ascent/descent) then the less effect the air pressure changes have.
4) WorkOutDoors gets the relative altitude from the barometer. It is not possible to get the absolute altitude from the barometer so it adds the relative altitude to a base altitude from the location (GPS) system. It calibrates this at the start of the workout and also when you resume after a manual pause.
Apple haven't revealed anything about the new "always on altimeter" so I do not know how that works. They have also not explained how apps can get the data, or even if they can get it. For example it could be that the altitude value reported by the location system is now much more accurate for models with the new altimeter instead of being less accurate than using a barometer. I am waiting until they are clearer on that before deciding whether to allow the user to specify to use that value instead of the barometer/GPS combination. Although I have seen lots of complaints about the always on altimeter so it's probably best to wait until they have improved it.
5) The route artefacts have been in the app for years. Sorry about that. They happen so rarely that I have never really got a handle on them. I plan to improve route functionality in the next version, so will look in more detail then.
6) The current pace comes straight from the watchOS pedometer by default. That hasn't changed so maybe Apple have improved it recently. The app allows you to choose a different watchOS system (GPS or Health), and also lets you smooth the data if you want, but if you do not do that then the values is straight from the pedometer system.
If the native app appears more responsive then they are probably doing something different to what they offer developers. Maybe somehow using the accelerometers, gyroscope etc. I may look into that at sometime but it isn't something I have planned.
I hope that helps. Thanks again for the very detailed feedback!
Thanks for quick response! Now all is clear but:
3) I understand, but I think it's a bug when that interwal starts and ends on the same altitude - others were very sensitive.
Interval 2 was only +2 m and it shows that exactly as it is on the graph.
Interval 3 was +1m and -1m ( 72m>73m>71m)
Interwal 4 was -4m and +4m ( 71m>67m>71m)
When I swipe on that graph, that data is there, and it's correct, so WOD didn't smooth it out and did a great job.
Just when there is no grade, because I've started and ended on the same altitude, ascent and descent are both "0"
3) I understand, but I think it's a bug when that interwal starts and ends on the same altitude - others were very sensitive.
Interval 2 was only +2 m and it shows that exactly as it is on the graph.
Interval 3 was +1m and -1m ( 72m>73m>71m)
Interwal 4 was -4m and +4m ( 71m>67m>71m)
When I swipe on that graph, that data is there, and it's correct, so WOD didn't smooth it out and did a great job.
Just when there is no grade, because I've started and ended on the same altitude, ascent and descent are both "0"
You are right but it is deliberate. The smoothing algorithm smooths out peaks and troughs, so interval 2 is an ascent with no peak or trough, so it doesn't get smoothed. Interval 3 is a peak (of 1m over 290m) and interval 4 is a trough (of 4m over 480m). I think it is acceptable to smooth out a 1m peak over a 290m stretch when watchOS only reports to the nearest 1m. The 4m trough over 480m is slightly more dubious but not massively so.
As I say these things are only noticeable for essentially flat routes. On longer ascents and descents then smoothing small peaks and troughs has little effect apart from to counteract the jaggedness caused by sensor inaccuracies and rounding. I am not saying that the algorithm is perfect because that is impossible, and especially so on flat routes where the inaccuracy and rounding of the sensor have more effect.
Now I understand Thanks! Hope it's no to sensitive, because after running a short, 20m high hill and back, I would like to see that +20m ascent and -20m descent in the interval stats
Thanks! Hope it's no to sensitive, because after running a short, 20m high hill and back, I would like to see that +20m ascent and -20m descent in the interval stats
That should work fine in theory!Now I understand
Last thing - I promise
Is there a way to have 2 custom screen profiles? I want exactly te same layout but one for previous interwal and one for current interval. It's not a big deal, now I just have "custom" and "steps" configured like that, but wondered is there any other way for doing that.
Is there a way to have 2 custom screen profiles? I want exactly te same layout but one for previous interwal and one for current interval. It's not a big deal, now I just have "custom" and "steps" configured like that, but wondered is there any other way for doing that.
That is not possible at the moment. Sorry about that. It is one of those features that I expected people to ask for when I added screen customisation a while back, but which hardly anyone has requested, and so has dropped down my list.Last thing - I promise
Is there a way to have 2 custom screen profiles? I want exactly te same layout but one for previous interwal and one for current interval. It's not a big deal, now I just have "custom" and "steps" configured like that, but wondered is there any other way for doing that.
Another reason I have not added it is because I would want to do it properly with the ability to create your own profile names etc, which would be a lot of work. However I am tempted to add Custom2, Custom3 profiles, which would be inelegant but very easy for me to add. I will have a think about it.
Wow!!! Thanks for the update, love the app more than ever!
Just a very minor silly question: difference between Apple auto-pause and WOD auto-pause?
Edit: mee too, have had to update the watch app “manually”, from the watch store.
Just a very minor silly question: difference between Apple auto-pause and WOD auto-pause?
Edit: mee too, have had to update the watch app “manually”, from the watch store.
Apple only provide an auto-pause for Running so I added my own auto-pause for other outdoor activities. I decided to make it available for running as well just in case their auto-pause has problems, but generally it is best to use their system. My algorithm is generic and uses GPS because that is available for every outdoor activity, but theirs is tuned for running and presumably uses other running-specific sensors such as the pedometer.
Glad you like the update!
Hi
Been torn between a Garmin and an AW for the last week. Came across your app, and that sealed the deal. (Waiting for a series 4 I got second cheap to try out)
Bought the app to start playing around with. Looks amazing.
I’m going to use it mainly for mountain biking. I never used a unit where I can load gpx files before I have a question.
When I load a route, how does it work out on the trail?
Do I get a warning if I miss a turn, or do one just have to pay attention while biking?
Been torn between a Garmin and an AW for the last week. Came across your app, and that sealed the deal. (Waiting for a series 4 I got second cheap to try out)
Bought the app to start playing around with. Looks amazing.
I’m going to use it mainly for mountain biking. I never used a unit where I can load gpx files before I have a question.
When I load a route, how does it work out on the trail?
Do I get a warning if I miss a turn, or do one just have to pay attention while biking?
At the moment routes are simply displayed on the map and you can set up an alert to warn you if you deviate from the route by a configurable distance. However in the near future I plan to look into improving this with turn by turn navigation. Initially this would require the navigation instructions being in the GPX route. Thanks for buying the app!
Hi @cfc i think there may be some debug code still in the app. When running this morning I got a strange message spoken through my headphone like an alert. I don’t recall it exactly but it was something like “maximum restart events reached”. It did not impact the recording at all from what I can tell.
Thanks for the heads up. Yes that is debug code but it was deliberate. I made it speak any errors when saving the workout to Apple’s Health system because I thought that could be useful during testing. But 100+ testers used it for over 2 months and I think it was only mentioned once. So I figured I would keep it in as it probably wouldn’t be too annoying if it was so rare, and may help solve some problems with the release version. Glad that the workout looks fine though. Thanks for letting me know!
@cfc - I don’t write into developers ever (probably should), but just wanted to say thanks for all the hard work and putting out such a solid app - I’ve tried other apps for hiking and backcountry skiing and they all have some drawbacks. WOD seems to be the best - that being said, I would gladly pay (reasonably) for access to topo maps and other features specific to hiking, mountaineering and BC skiing.
I am very glad that you like the app. I have found a possible source of reasonably priced topo maps that I may be able to incorporate into the app in the future at no extra cost to the user. I am evaluating them now to see if they will work, and the early indications are good.
High-quality topo maps in Norway are available for free by The Norwegian Mapping Authority:
Web interface: https://norgeskart.no/
Also available in the app “Norgeskart”, with offline capabilities.
APIs an data: https://kartverket.no/en/api-and-data
1:50 000 Dataset: https://kartkatalog.geonorge.no/metadata/ea192681-d039-42ec-b1bc-f3ce04c189ac
(One can change to the English description via the drop-down web menu.)
It would be very nice if WorkOutDoors supports these maps
Web interface: https://norgeskart.no/
Also available in the app “Norgeskart”, with offline capabilities.
APIs an data: https://kartverket.no/en/api-and-data
1:50 000 Dataset: https://kartkatalog.geonorge.no/metadata/ea192681-d039-42ec-b1bc-f3ce04c189ac
(One can change to the English description via the drop-down web menu.)
It would be very nice if WorkOutDoors supports these maps
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To be honest it would be too much work to connect to different maps for different countries. The map source that I am investigating has global coverage so hopefully I will be able to use that.High-quality topo maps in Norway are available for free by The Norwegian Mapping Authority:
Web interface: https://norgeskart.no/
Also available in the app “Norgeskart”, with offline capabilities.
APIs an data: https://kartverket.no/en/api-and-data
1:50 000 Dataset: https://kartkatalog.geonorge.no/metadata/ea192681-d039-42ec-b1bc-f3ce04c189ac
(One can change to the English description via the drop-down web menu.)
It would be very nice if WorkOutDoors supports these maps