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pat.micunnis

macrumors regular
Sep 24, 2013
196
0
What happens after the 14 day return period - and AppleCare kicks in?

How does the GeniusBar "fix" the problem? Do they physically remove and replace the screen only?
 

gothamm

macrumors 6502a
Nov 18, 2007
844
3
Update :

So it turns out I must have been on something when I looked at my screen and thought it was perfect the other day. I also used it in conjunction with my external display since the day I got it. I was also using it at full brightness but under normal settings, especially at night, I can clearly see that the entire bottom half of my screen is yellow.

Calibrating using the OSX-app doesn't help, since the top part remains whiter. It's actually quite visible on safari where it looks like a gradation from top to bottom with a near perfect straight line across where the temperature changes.

I am furious about the ordeal because I've gone through 2 MacBook Airs over wi-fi issues and a faulty iGPU displaying pixelated grey boxes all over the screen. This was right after they were announced at WWDC. I am now terribly frustrated that yet again, another model launches and something as BASIC as a screen goes through their quality controls without being flagged. Please, they use machines that photograph iPhonw 5/5S parts to match them perfectly down to the nanometer and you want me to believe there is no way for them to detect yellow-screens? It's also not like IR issues and yellow tints were reported yesterday. The rMBP has been subject to these both since day 1 in '12. They advertise a laptop with the best screen on the market, yet they have 2 different manufacturers for the retina panel and both screens respond differently. That's borderline false advertising.

During the whole process with the Airs, the genius bar associate made me feel like a complete idiot saying it had to do with my internet connection when obviously it was a known issue and I was connected to their latest 802.11ac Airport Extreme at home. When he was successful at re-creating the issue and the connection completely dropped, he mentioned 'bottleneck' of their routers claiming it had to do with the store full of customers using wi-fi. (At this point, we're seriously a sandwich short of a picnic.)

At 2600 dollars, I now see red. :mad: My former 15-inch early 2013 had the best freaking screen ever. I don't care what people say about LG being crippled with IR, mine never showed any signs of it. Blacks were crisp, whites were pure, a true joy to work on as an Architect/Designer using CAD, Photoshop and InDesign all day.

Obviously, in total Beverly Hills condescending fashion, the genius guy tells me that it's 'within specs' and that 'he can't see.' If by 'within specs' he means that it's totally acceptable to deal with a screen that's half 'polluted' I am not gonna be the kind of guy to drink their f* Kool-Aid anymore. That's my job to look at colors all day - I've been using macs for 12+ years. Why? Because of the usual exceptional color reproduction. I know when a screen looks like 'pee' or 'snow.' I don't need a 19 y.o. kid to tell me whether or not I am right or wrong about that particular aspect of my computer. Give me a lesson about RAM or i7 performance all you want, just don't talk about what my eyes see.

He finally proceeded to tell me that 'they would make an exception and do a display replacement once, that if the second screen was also not of my liking I'd have no other choice than to basically suck it.' - keep in mind, I'm within my 14-day return period, it's not like they are doing me any favor. I ended up refusing.

First of all, for a brand spanking new machine, there is no way they are gonna start tinkering with the hinge and move parts around. I'd feel uneasy about it in 2 years, I certainly don't want to deal with this non-sense at day 5 of ownership. I see this like a car. When you start moving things around, opening, fixing, repainting and changing parts, that's when things go seriously wrong. If I had no choice in 2 years, I'd obviously agree. But today, absolutely not. I don't want to end up stuck with a laptop that's potentially gonna squeak when it just rolled out of the factory line. That happened on a unibody white MacBook when they replaced my display back in the days. The whole assembly ended up misaligned and you could see a difference in gaps once the lid was closed on each side of the back hinge. I just thought that there was a better way to calibrate it than at home and they could help. I was obviously wrong.

Second, I wanted to escalate the issue to their customer service. They heard about me over my Air issues during the summer and thought it was only fair to let them know about how this tool at the store handled it. Off I went and dialed their 1-800 number.

I briefly spoke to the first tech associate to explain the issue but asked to be transferred to a senior advisor. He connected me and there goes the polite rampage. I went through all of the details, from the Airs to the old unibody MacBook, to my former rMBP, the disparity between Samsung and LG panels and how their genius people can sometimes be the most arrogant and useful people.

I said that there was absolutely no way I'd have the panel replaced and that I'd be asking for a full refund to wait it out for a second. If this is their first batch, I don't want to be the one to deal with this BS so they can get feedback for the future customers.

After listening to my feelings about the whole thing, the supervisor mentioned that they are indeed aware of quality issues with the panels they use. (Hello, it's been 1.5 years at this point.) They are requiring every store nationwide to proceed with 'captures' when it pertains to the late 2013 rMBP screen - whether it's IR or yellowing. That's when you wonder why the idiot I dealt with didn't follow the internal instructions.

I was told to return my unit and mention the issue as to make sure to put it aside so it can be sent back to their engineering teams in Northern CA.

And for the FIRST time in history, I was offered financial compensation for the ordeal I've been going through and that's documented under my Apple ID for the 2 Airs and this one.

So I will hold on for a second to re-purchase it. It seems that they are working on it and I refuse to look at a Samsung screen. LG is a better counter part and its color reproduction way more accurate. I still do not understand why Apple thinks it's ok to have 2 manufacturers presenting such differences to the naked eye. It's a class action lawsuit waiting to happen.

I will post pictures later tonight once I get a hold of a better camera than my iPhone 5.

Moral of the story, we're paying customers. We have the right to get what's advertised and what we've paid for. Speaking to senior advisors always seems to be a viable option and we should let no one tell us that it's ok to have yellow spots or darker corners on a 2600 dollars piece of tech. Perfection doesn't exist but for such a price tag, it should be freaking close to being flawless. If I wanted to go cheap and I didn't care about what I spend 7 hours a day looking at, I'd buy an HP.

Hope this bit of news about the capture helps you guys. We can only wish they really look into it and ditch Samsung for good.

Sorry to hear about your genius bar situation. As in most interactions in life, you just have to be firm, which you were. Can you elaborate on what type of financial compensation you received?

if i were you, i'd just return and rebuy until you get a good screen. Make no mistake that there are good screens out there that look absolutely fantastic :)
 

mthos

macrumors member
Oct 23, 2013
52
0
I see no yellow tint on my Haswell Macbook Pro 15" 2.3, 16, 512, 750M, looked at it from many different angles in OSX and Windows on white backgrounds, etc.

Nothing looks bad.

I have a Samsung screen by the way.
 

rgarjr

macrumors 604
Apr 2, 2009
6,820
1,052
Southern California
I see no yellow tint on my Haswell Macbook Pro 15" 2.3, 16, 512, 750M, looked at it from many different angles in OSX and Windows on white backgrounds, etc.

Nothing looks bad.

I have a Samsung screen by the way.

I have the same machine as you and my screen looks pretty good to me as well.
 

toneLA

macrumors regular
Jun 28, 2013
113
0
Beverly Hills, CA
Sorry to hear about your genius bar situation. As in most interactions in life, you just have to be firm, which you were. Can you elaborate on what type of financial compensation you received?

if i were you, i'd just return and rebuy until you get a good screen. Make no mistake that there are good screens out there that look absolutely fantastic :)

I am totally gonna wait it out and rebuy it until I get the one I want. It doesn't matter if I end up being black-listed at one store, I'm lucky enough to live in a city where I have 10 of them nearby.

As for the financial compensation, he told me I could pick something from the online store. I thought he was referring to an iPhone case or something similar - feeling my hesitation he said something quite funny : 'I can disclose to you since this conversation is not being monitored, that for this particular case, I am authorized to let you pick an item or multiple items up to a total $400 value.'

I ended up getting a Time Capsule, a wireless keyboard and trackpad. But like he said, this is pertaining to my particular case with them, the multiple issues across 2 different products, also most likely influenced by my purchase history linked to my Apple ID. Being in my field of work, I am a heavy user of their stuff and purchase a lot of products from them. I have for years. I am pretty sure they wouldn't do that for everyone complaining of a yellow-screen or IR.

I just thought this was a nice attention and it made me feel like they actually cared. This kind of gesture nowadays isn't something we come across often. Back in the days when I lived in France, I dealt with their CS which at the time was based in Ireland and they always made me feel like I mattered as a customer. But Apple became more 'mainstream', their consumer base grew and they sit on a huge pile of cash. What do they care about one person going through issues? They have thousands more joining the club everyday. At least that's how I felt, until today when the senior advisor proved me wrong. It's a nice feeling.

I will keep you updated when I get a unit that's 'within my specs'. :)
 

pupilla

macrumors member
Oct 28, 2013
32
0
What difference does an increase or decrease in brightness make for you guys? On full brightness my screen is about as white as can get (uniformly), but my eyes can't handle that. On lower brightness levels (4-5 clicks) uniformity declines and the lower half seems to be just a tad more dull and has an inclination to the yellow side, but I am having a really hard time to distinguish it and it seems comparable to my MBA's screen on low brightness.

Brightness in the picture is about 30%.
 

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JPizzzle

macrumors 6502
Oct 30, 2008
325
53
Hey folks,

So, I want to make a decision on this and attached some additional photos. I'm stopping by the apple store today to pick up my iPad, so I can return it if it's not up to par. This one a keeper?
 

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troop231

macrumors 603
Jan 20, 2010
5,826
560
I have a question, I'll be picking up my late 2013 rMBP 2.6 512GB in store, and plan on opening it in store to go over it to make sure there's no defects. Coming from an Early 2011 15" Hi-Res Anti-Glare that had no defects, I expect no less of a brand new rMBP that costs more.

I live several hours away from the store, and if there's any defects, will they swap the machine out for a higher configuration (1024GB) if they have them in stock (someone on here said they keeep them in the back, even though they don't show as available online)?

Reason I ask is I can't play the swap/replacement game back and forth, as I need my machine for work.

Thank you for your input! :)
 

Guy Mancuso

macrumors 6502a
Mar 28, 2009
862
43
Yes they keep a completely maxed out unit in store but do not list it online. You have to ask for it. A lot of people walk in and ask for the most expensive one they have. I know but its true. It's my ace in the hole as well. Now with all this going on I won't order from B&H and try to save some tax as returns would be much harder. I'll try and use a education discount in store or on line and if I run into a issue than its a easier return.

Right now to save a few dollars. I may do one of two things

2.3 with 1tb. I lose 8 percent over the 2.6 processing power but gain a faster and bigger HD

Or

2.6 and a 500gb. Cheaper get the 8 percent back but slower HD and smaller which I could be alright with

Torn on this one. My issue is need to sell mine at a decent price
 

Atomic Walrus

macrumors 6502a
Sep 24, 2012
878
434
What difference does an increase or decrease in brightness make for you guys? On full brightness my screen is about as white as can get (uniformly), but my eyes can't handle that. On lower brightness levels (4-5 clicks) uniformity declines and the lower half seems to be just a tad more dull and has an inclination to the yellow side, but I am having a really hard time to distinguish it and it seems comparable to my MBA's screen on low brightness.

Brightness in the picture is about 30%.

What's happening here is that as the screen gets brighter the darker or warmer areas appear to your eyes to be closer to white simply because of the amount of light relative to the environment.

In really simple terms, white is perceived when the balance between the signals from R/G/B cones in the retina is fairly even. As the brightness increases to the levels you describe that are uncomfortable you're basically saturating the available retinal "bandwidth" of all three colors and the brain gets a ratio of "too much/too much/too much" which it'll perceive as white. The actual color temperature of the panel isn't changing, it's just overloading your visual capacity in a dark environment. Take the panel outside and crank up the brightness and you'll see it still has the same tint.

The shift you're seeing at the bottom is normal for IPS (I even see it on my 27" cinema display, though it's less severe). I believe the reason it seems so significant is because the panels are too warm in general. Another brief physiology note: I mentioned the balance between R/G/B signals being fairly even to produce the perception of white, right? So there's basically an error range that your brain will interpret as white (kind of like a dead zone on an analog input like a joystick). If the panel is already on one edge of this range or the other (in this case too warm) even a small shift will move the signal out of that range and you'll think "this panel goes from white to yellow from top to bottom."

If you want to try an experiment on this, run the calibration tool but just skip everything except white point. Change it to something a bit cooler (not all the way into the blue territory though) and then re-assess the top to bottom shift. It should seem less severe even though it actually isn't.

In fact this can work so well (depending on how warm your panel actually is) that you might wonder why that isn't a solution for everyone with a yellow panel. Basically the more you have to adjust the white point from software the dimmer the screen will be; the only way for an LCD to make this adjustment is to block some of the light in certain color ranges. Optimally a panel will have a good white balance before software adjustments are made. This adjustment is also much harder to make in Windows, which could matter to some users.

I honestly don't understand why this can't be sorted out. Are there simply no IPS panels at this size/density that don't show this effect? Without a meter I have to assume that my 27" Cinema Display has the more accurate white point, which makes my rMBP significantly warmer than it should be.

I'm considering an exchange, but I'm afraid that the majority of panels may have this white point and I may encounter worse problems (like static temperature shifts across the panel or other uniformity issues). If I can't come up with a resolution I'm happy with I may end up completely returning the machine (which is otherwise amazing) and waiting for IGZO, which hopefully will improve on the issue (or at least have so much surplus brightness that you don't mind changing the white point in software).
 
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troop231

macrumors 603
Jan 20, 2010
5,826
560
Yes they keep a completely maxed out unit in store but do not list it online. You have to ask for it.

That would be awesome if they upgraded you to the higher configuration (512 to 1024GB) in store if there's a defect with yours and you live far away :) I know the price difference between the two is $450 and I'm not saying Apple should do this, but I know they have before.
 

pendragon1984

macrumors 6502
Oct 24, 2013
450
272
I too have noticed some yellowness on my screen. The bottom corners have a very slight yellow tinge to them. It's not noticeable under normal usage. I have to look at the screen with a completely white background very carefully to notice it, but I am pretty sure there is a yellow tinge there. I would never have figured that out if it were not for the blasted forums. haha!

Anyway, I'm under the impression that these displays just aren't going to be perfect, and mine is way closer to being perfect that all the displays I'm seeing pictures of on here. I think that even displays like mine that seem perfect really aren't if you look close enough. So, I am going to live with it. I think eventually I will forget about the yellowness that I can't normally see. haha!

One thing I did was to spend about half an hour doing to expert calibration. The yellow tint in the corners is less now and overall the display looks much better. If I compare the factory calibration to my calibration its like night and day. So, I do advise all of you to take the time to expert calibrate your displays.
 

Guy Mancuso

macrumors 6502a
Mar 28, 2009
862
43
That would be awesome if they upgraded you to the higher configuration (512 to 1024GB) in store if there's a defect with yours and you live far away :) I know the price difference between the two is $450 and I'm not saying Apple should do this, but I know they have before.

Yea they probably would do it as it is a additional sale for them and probably less hassle on their end.

This is how I got my laptop below, it was not listed but had the max config in the back room. I went in pretty much the same time frame as this release a week or so later
 

troop231

macrumors 603
Jan 20, 2010
5,826
560
Yea they probably would do it as it is a additional sale for them and probably less hassle on their end.

This is how I got my laptop below, it was not listed but had the max config in the back room. I went in pretty much the same time frame as this release a week or so later

Would they upgrade you for free to the 1024GB based on the inconvenience?
 

Texxy

macrumors 6502
Aug 16, 2011
435
86
I too have noticed some yellowness on my screen. The bottom corners have a very slight yellow tinge to them. It's not noticeable under normal usage. I have to look at the screen with a completely white background very carefully to notice it, but I am pretty sure there is a yellow tinge there. I would never have figured that out if it were not for the blasted forums. haha!

Anyway, I'm under the impression that these displays just aren't going to be perfect, and mine is way closer to being perfect that all the displays I'm seeing pictures of on here. I think that even displays like mine that seem perfect really aren't if you look close enough. So, I am going to live with it. I think eventually I will forget about the yellowness that I can't normally see. haha!

One thing I did was to spend about half an hour doing to expert calibration. The yellow tint in the corners is less now and overall the display looks much better. If I compare the factory calibration to my calibration its like night and day. So, I do advise all of you to take the time to expert calibrate your displays.

How do you go about doing an expert calibration? :confused:
 

pendragon1984

macrumors 6502
Oct 24, 2013
450
272
How do you go about doing an expert calibration? :confused:

I just did the calibration offered in the display preference panel. You have to check the expert mode option. It takes a while. My display is much better now. If you have uneven colouring, it won't fix it. But for me it made it better. The display also looks better overall. Really, I think people should do it regardless of whether they have any colouring/tinting issues. The factory calibration aint great.
 

pendragon1984

macrumors 6502
Oct 24, 2013
450
272
Also, from reading all the posts here and elsewhere, I think there are probably very few displays that are perfect. If you go hunting for problems after reading these forums, you are likely to find some. If you don't notice anything under normal usage, just enjoy your computer. If you try to send it back, most likely you'll have to do so many times to get one that is perfect.

If your problem is one that you notice under normal usage though send it back! I'm just saying if you can only notice it by performing tests with white backgrounds etc or in pitch black rooms etc, then it's not worth the hassle especially given that you're unlikely to get a better one.
 

Creep89

macrumors 6502
Mar 9, 2012
314
407
My 15" has a serious yellow tint issue on the bottom left. Surfing on websites with a white background shows the issue pretty clearly. It's a Samsung, btw. I think I'll set up an appointment in order to get a replacement screen.

I already kept my iPad 3 which also has a yellow tint issue, so this time I'm going for a replacement screen on my 15" rMBP.
 

iChrist

macrumors 65816
Sep 7, 2011
1,479
432
3 countries for tax benefit
Oh boy, thanks to this thread, I took a closer look at my 13in screen. It appears that the left half of the screen has a yellow tint when compared to the right. Furthermore, there sees to be a bit of a dark shadow at the edge of the screen on the left. It is not uniform top to down however it is present. I plan on bringing it back to the store first thing tomorrow.

Would I be able to exchange laptops in store? Would it even make a difference since they may all be from the same batch?

The Genius Bar will likely refuse your request.
 
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