Yosemite looks terrible!

[One13Truck]

I was thinking something polar opposite when I read that post. Some of us are tired of being told to basically "shut up" about negative comments on OS X by the fanatical crowds that would have loved the update no matter *WHAT* it looked like (sorry but it's the truth). Sadly, ignoring it won't make it go away. Apple needs to be absolutely inundated with negative feedback towards Jony Ive's "Crayon World" OS update. It's HIDEOUS and something I'd expect from Fisher Price, not Apple. Steve Jobs may have megalomania in common with Jony, but Steve was a black turtle-neck shirt kind of guy, not a Hawaiian shirt kind of guy. It's hard to imagine Steve going with Jony's vision of the future instead of the Scott Forestall one (that existed while Steve was there) when Yosemite and iOS7/8 are the visual end result. Unfortunately, Mr. Cook might very well be a Hawaiian shirt kind of guy and no amount of feedback in the world may help other than the bottom line and then I could imagine Cook simply declaring the personal computer "dead" rather than imagine it has to do with bad taste. Look at the music industry. They've been crying for ages that it's piracy's fault sales are down when in fact it's actually because today's "music" (if you can call it that even) sucks that sales are down.

The most intelligent comment in here to date.

Not once have I gone over to the "Yosemite is Beautiful" thread and bashed them. They like it? Great for them. I'm thrilled they do. Not one bit of that is being said sarcastically. As an Apple user for over 30 years I loved that feeling of eagerly awaiting the new iOS/OS roll out. It was like being a kid on Christmas morning and I want that feeling back. So why do people have to come here on this thread and tell US to shut up because WE don't like Yosemite and think it's junk?
When Coke changed formulas and people didn't like it, guess what? If the ones that hated it were told to shut the hell up and stop complaining we'd all be drinking New Coke today instead of Coke Classic. Nothing at all wrong with making our voices heard if we hate the way Yosemite is. Maybe those combined voices will lead to Ive being sent away as he deserves to be and a return to some common sense in the OS and iOS looks.
And as I've said many times it's too bad Ive wants to make them look like something that even Rainbow Bright or the Care Bears would think is ugly because the features and things they've added and improved upon are fantastic. Unfortunately it's so ugly I would never even think about telling people to switch to Apple and be forced to use either of them. Instead I'm now telling them to stay with Droid and Windows and I'm considering making the moves when it's time to replace my phone and computer as well. I never thought I would say that. Ever.

 

[AndreSt]

In other words, slightly over 1 in 5 users dislikes Yosemite. I would say that's a high dissatisfaction rate.

That perfectly correlates to the rating of Yosemite in the (Swiss) Mac App Store.
Although some negative ratings (including mine) are censored by Apple.

 

[TheBSDGuy]

That perfectly correlates to the rating of Yosemite in the (Swiss) Mac App Store.
Although some negative ratings (including mine) are censored by Apple.

I left a comment, very brief, indicating how cartoon like it looked. My comment was deleted. I suppose my user rating of one star was as well.

I was on the Apple site a few days ago and someone had commented about how they hated the look of Yosemite and wanted to regress to Mavericks. Numerous people chimed in, but now this thread is deleted as well.

Moral of the story: GUARANTEE 4 AND 5 STAR PRODUCT RATINGS BY SIMPLY DELETING THOSE THAT ARE CRITICAL OF THE "VISION" OF THE PRODUCT.


Apple allows actual bugs with the software to be displayed, but those critical of the actual UI and the new design concept seem to be castrated as fast as possible. I guess the theory here is that if you lie to consumers and put up a fraudulent front, you can trick people into thinking a crappy product is a work of art.

If anyone from Apple is listening, here's my advice: QUIT USING FOX NEWS AS A ROLE MODEL FOR SUCCESS.

Shame on you, Tim Cook. Shame, shame, shame.

 

[dannyg86]

I left a comment, very brief, indicating how cartoon like it looked. My comment was deleted. I suppose my user rating of one star was as well.

I was on the Apple site a few days ago and someone had commented about how they hated the look of Yosemite and wanted to regress to Mavericks. Numerous people chimed in, but now this thread is deleted as well.

Moral of the story: GUARANTEE 4 AND 5 STAR PRODUCT RATINGS BY SIMPLY DELETING THOSE THAT ARE CRITICAL OF THE "VISION" OF THE PRODUCT.


Apple allows actual bugs with the software to be displayed, but those critical of the actual UI and the new design concept seem to be castrated as fast as possible. I guess the theory here is that if you lie to consumers and put up a fraudulent front, you can trick people into thinking a crappy product is a work of art.

If anyone from Apple is listening, here's my advice: QUIT USING FOX NEWS AS A ROLE MODEL FOR SUCCESS.

Shame on you, Tim Cook. Shame, shame, shame.

That is ridiculous. So constructive critisicsm and freedom of opinion is now banned from apple app store product reviews it seems?

Pretty low imho.

 

[grahamperrin]

OT: a question, and my apologies to pjv1990 and Zetaprime

A question

… Not once have I gone over to the "Yosemite is Beautiful" thread and bashed them. They like it? Great for them. I'm thrilled they do. Not one bit of that is being said sarcastically. …

I applaud that self-restraint. My question:

• is the pinning/stickiness, of the two topics, an encouragement to those good behaviours?

----

Expectations, mutual respect, apologies

OMG this is a beast of a thread. …

True, and the beastliness of the mass/length is too easily forgotten when buttons are inadvertently pressed.

If you don't like it, don't use it or upgrade. There we go, world peace achieved. No dramas.

Have a lovely evening everyone

… carelessly dismissive lazily sarcastic …occasionally gains a terse response that's intended to encourage a more selfless approach. …

In retrospect, I was too quick to show harshness towards pjv1990 and Zetaprime. My apologies to you both and pjv1990, you're no longer on my ignore list.

pjv1990, I can't agree that your first contribution was a "perfectly reasonable response" … neither should I expect everyone to begin with a careful reading of this beast of a topic so again, I apologise. I remind myself to expect some carelessness, and to show greater respect for the rules of this forum.

IA64, thanks again for taking a non-inflammatory approach. I should learn from such examples.

… some not only can't stand anyone that disagrees with their view, they actively both insult those people …

There is, unsurprisingly, an element of that dismissiveness in some of the reviews in the App Store. More on this (just a little more) later.

… Expect zero, or near-zero tolerance to be shown where it appears that a writer's sole purpose is to gain amusement by adding to the troubles of people who are already troubled … It's normal to report offenders to moderators; I encourage that approach. …

I'll end this off-topic post with an observation: it's extremely rare for me to be offended to that degree. To have such deep and contentious discussion, with so little offence, is, I believe, a credit to everyone in MacRumors forums.

 

[grahamperrin]

App Store and other representations of customer opinion (not limited to looks)

… constructive critisicsm and freedom of opinion is now banned from apple app store product reviews it seems? …

A sense of excessive censorship may be heightened when one's own review is not published. Plus, the aggravation of a user interface that's not friendly, and so on.

Reassuringly

From a few hours ago: "it's remarkable that all three featured reviews are negative – two reviewers don't like Yosemite, one hates it.".

Yesterday and today in the App Store, it was easy to find US readers treating as most helpful – at the forefront – a number of remarkably negative reviews:



(The underlined parts of that popular five-star review are quite deplorable. More on that later.)

At a glance, it seems less immediately easy to find negative reviews treated as helpful by UK readers. From page two:



Customer loyalties

Based on votes to date from MacRumors Forums members: if I'm not mistaken, an NPS measurement of loyalty to Yosemite could be zero (0).

I could be mistaken. I have sought advice, privately. One enquiry was a private message, on Wednesday 5th November, to a forum member who often includes a voting-related signature with his posts …*I assume that he not noticed the message (he's not a contributor to this topic).

 

[F1Mac]

That is ridiculous. So constructive critisicsm and freedom of opinion is now banned from apple app store product reviews it seems?

Pretty low imho.

Well... canadian store shows both positive and negative comments. Apple doesn't delete them.

 

[AndreSt]

Well... canadian store shows both positive and negative comments. Apple doesn't delete them.

Not all of them. In fact, there is quite a remarkable number of negative comments left.

Here's a screenshot from the Swiss Mac App Store for Yosemite:
https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=512589&stc=1&d=1415542587

 

[sbmeyer001]

Ugly yes, user centric, NO

Yes, I think that Yosemite is ugly, just as I think iOS 7+ is ugly. I wish Ive's would stay out of software design, although a brilliant hardware designer, he does NOT have a clue as to what makes software easy to use.

The flat design is harsh on the eyes, makes it harder to distinguish UI elements, and does nothing to enhance the user experience, or make a more complex OS easier to use. I am not a big fan of chewing up CPU cycles for useless graphics enhancements, but totally flat and harsh is not better.

I am getting used to iOS these days, and may get used to Yosemite or the next version of OSX, when there is a compelling reason to upgrade. Why put up with the ugly if the OS fails to deliver? My wife upgraded to Yosemite and has problems that should NOT have ever existed. The computer renaming itself or Safari losing control of cookies, or Safari offering less control of what website data to clear. "It just works" is NOT the Apple mantra anymore. I switched to Apple and the Mac, from Windows, when I got fed up with the hourglass generator that Windows was. Constantly having to reboot to get the simplest things done. When I moved to OSX, then Snow Leopard, I found a sleek, fast, well designed operating system that really screamed. Now, it is getting slower, uglier, and full of bugs reminiscent of Windows. I think their direction with iCloud to iCloud Drive is scary, as I may lose control of managing my photos, my way. They are moving to less User control over their environment and their content.

I have upgraded in the past, but after seeing Yosemite, I will hang on to Mavericks as long as I can. At least, and until, there is some new feature in the operating system I really want and having it is worth suffering the ugly and overbearing control over my content.

Until Apple takes a beating in profits, or gets reliable statistics, they will think they are moving in the right direction. Steve Jobs always thought he knew what was best for you, that might be the real mantra of Apple.

 

[ZVH]

Yes, I think that Yosemite is ugly, just as I think iOS 7+ is ugly. I wish Ive's would stay out of software design, although a brilliant hardware designer, he does NOT have a clue as to what makes software easy to use.

I really have to wonder about the word brilliant to describe Ive. It's not like designing a slick looking box puts him in the same crowd as Einstein, Newton, or da Vinci. For the love of God, people, it's basically a box. And now that he's [apparently] grabbed control from actual OS and UI designers with experience by getting them fired, you're seeing just how much skill he really has. I would say Yosemite is absolute proof that Ive is not brilliant.

That is ridiculous. So constructive critisicsm and freedom of opinion is now banned from apple app store product reviews it seems?

Pretty low imho.

Yes, it is pretty low of Apple and the Apple Store to delete posts, but it's also been documented before:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/12/apple-deleting-mentions-of-consumer-reports-iphone-4-piece-on-f/
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/apple/apples-bizarre-pr-strategy-delete-unflattering-threads/7548

 

[grahamperrin]

Occasionally angry about Apple's lack of forethought around Yosemite

Without anger

… it is pretty low of Apple … to delete posts …

In fairness: Apple Support Communities (ASC) moderators seem to be reasonably tolerant of people describing Apple products as (for example) abortions https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=abortion site:discussions.apple.com – https://diigo.com/071dif for highlights from a topic that caught my eye around a week after the release of Yosemite.

The list at http://tinyurl.com/1010uglystick includes a few more ASC topics, but probably not grouped; expect to find those bookmarks (and annotations) in the midst of bookmarks of tweets and so on.

With some anger

I really have to wonder about the word brilliant to describe Ive. … he's [apparently] grabbed control from actual OS and UI designers with experience by getting them fired, you're seeing just how much skill he really has. I would say Yosemite is absolute proof that Ive is not brilliant.

There's plenty to convince me that some of his past work was brilliant. Whether The Hand of Steve was instrumental in filtering out the less-than-brilliant work – before the public had any idea of that work (in an era when secrecy was far more effective than it can be now) – I have no idea.

There's no reason for me to doubt that Ive will be incapable of future brilliance but (if you're reading, Sir): give it a ****ing rest, will you, whatever it is that's ****ing up the looks for so many Mac users?

It's debatably OK for a person to treat an iPod as a beautiful toy. It's not OK to treat Macs as toys, to treat Mac users as toys. Just stop ****ing around with customer loyalty. I doubt that it was intended, but it's what's happening.

I wasn't angry three months ago, I'm rarely an angry person, but a few things in the past week have properly brought out a previously unrealised passion for UX. One of those things doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the midst of anger …

 

[TigerMSTR]

In other words, slightly over 1 in 5 users dislikes Yosemite. I would say that's a high dissatisfaction rate. Several of us have been predicting this based on some of the surveys done on MacRumors.

Maybe Apple ought to quit listening to their marketing "wizards" and come over to this site, where opinions aren't edited out, and find out what's going on.

When software works perfectly, consumers don't say a thing.

When it doesn't work, they whine about tit.

If 1 in 5 users hated Yosemetie, you'd be seeing a lot more whining outside the MAS

----------

OS X Yosemite is the prettiest software I've ever used. I've been using it for more than four months and I still admire the little flourishes. If everything was designed this well, I'd be so much happier. Good job Apple.

 

[MountainGirl]

I hate the Yosemite look too

Just updated! What have I done…so "insert clip art ugly"…I stopped drinking Coke until the old Coke returned…hmmm…Glad it's not just me.

 

[Mr. McMac]

Just updated! What have I done…so "insert clip art ugly"…I stopped drinking Coke until the old Coke returned…hmmm…Glad it's not just me.

At least CocaCola listened to their customers. Apple on the other hand couldn't give two ***** about their's.....

 

[joedec]

At least CocaCola listened to their customers. Apple on the other hand couldn't give two ***** about their's.....

Coke listened to the sales numbers, plummeting. Apple is growing so fast they have to measure within projections, so how do they tell if this redesign impacted sales? It's not that easy, there could be lots of reasons why sales grow only X% instead of Y%.

Its going to take someone who values usability, quality, and a strong will inside the company. I think all those people have been purged. All the stories about Scott Forestall after he left, hard to work with, didn't get along. That's "corp speak" for he had different ideas than the people in charge.

The driver in these changes is cost, they are trying to get to a single code stream. If you look at Mail and Calendar, they both have reduced functionality in Yosemite, matching iOS. Too bad they didn't do it the other way around, made iOS better, but that costs more. Remember Tim Cook is an efficiency expert, always looking for ways to cut costs by streamlining whatever he can.

 

[AndreSt]

Remember Tim Cook is an efficiency expert, always looking for ways to cut costs by streamlining whatever he can.

By reducing the overall (software) quality even more?
The risk of a backfire is real. I predict a serious impact on sales.
Although the average Apple customers seems to be pretty bug tolerant.

 

[joedec]

By reducing the overall (software) quality even more?
The risk of a backfire is real. I predict a serious impact on sales.
Although the average Apple customers seems to be pretty bug tolerant.

Reduced quality, I don't think they (Apple) see it like that, its more like how many people really use all those features? Many people who ran the Beta on this board said they had "zero" bugs! I couldn't believe it, I found it very buggy, I had 58 reported. One explanation is that people don't push the limits very much.

Also, they are very tolerant, when I look at the topic "Yosemite is Beautiful" I am amazed at the amount of problems people report. There's as many quality, readability complaints as on this thread, but the attitude is total acceptance.

 

[AndreSt]

Also, they are very tolerant, when I look at the topic "Yosemite is Beautiful" I am amazed at the amount of problems people report.

As a senior software engineer with 25 years of experience in using and developing software I see such things a little bit different than most of the (younger) users. When I buy a premium priced product (Mac or iDevice), I want to get more quality, usability and (detail-)design than a free Linux distribution would offer me!

 

[joedec]

As a senior software engineer with 25 years of experience in using and developing software I see such things a little bit different than most of the (younger) users. When I buy a premium priced product (Mac or iDevice), I want to get more quality, usability and (detail-)design than a free Linux distribution would offer me!

Ditto that.

 

[TheBSDGuy]

Coke listened to the sales numbers, plummeting. Apple is growing so fast they have to measure within projections, so how do they tell if this redesign impacted sales? It's not that easy, there could be lots of reasons why sales grow only X% instead of Y%.

It would appear that the previously estimated value of a 20% unacceptable rating for Yosemite is true, then I think it's possible that number will reflect in future sales. I think it's clear that Yosemite will chase some of the existing users away, and one, I think, can reasonable speculate, that others will walk into an Apple store, see Yosemite on the system, and walk away.

An iPhone is, for all practical purposes, a "captive" device, meaning it's tied to a contract. For example my sister took here previous iPhone and got the latests just for exchange and a contract renewal. No cost for the phone. Additionally a lot of people only marginally use iPhone functions and the UI is of little or no importance. Some people may use it for nothing more than playing Solitaire and making calls. How much is a user interface going to mean to them? Very little, I would think.

This isn't the case with a Mac. Apple can't get it out of it's head that the Mac ought to duplicate, and possibly be downright subordinate to an iPhone and that thinking is wrong. The two are completely different devices, used differently, and very, very often possibly by different types of users. The way I use my iPhone is absolutely nothing like how I use my Mac and what I use it for.

If people come in to an Apple store that are considering switching, take a look at Yosemite, and fall into that 20% dislike category, it will be a lost sale. Additionally, a percentage of current users will likely either not upgrade their hardware as fast as possible, or give up on Apple all together.

Yosemite has the real potential of reducing Apple sales by 20% in the long run.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

If 1 in 5 users hated Yosemetie, you'd be seeing a lot more whining outside the MAS

It's obvious some people in this world haven't figured out the difference between "hating something" and "hating how something LOOKS". Most people in this world don't start revolutions and wars over the fact they think the latest Miss Universe isn't as pretty as the 1st or 2nd runner up even though they may very well think just that. Thus, you logic FAILS because you don't examine things beyond the "skin depth" layer.

 

[joedec]

It would appear that the previously estimated value of a 20% unacceptable rating for Yosemite is true, then I think it's possible that number will reflect in future sales. I think it's clear that Yosemite will chase some of the existing users away, and one, I think, can reasonable speculate, that others will walk into an Apple store, see Yosemite on the system, and walk away.

An iPhone is, for all practical purposes, a "captive" device, meaning it's tied to a contract. For example my sister took here previous iPhone and got the latests just for exchange and a contract renewal. No cost for the phone. Additionally a lot of people only marginally use iPhone functions and the UI is of little or no importance. Some people may use it for nothing more than playing Solitaire and making calls. How much is a user interface going to mean to them? Very little, I would think.

This isn't the case with a Mac. Apple can't get it out of it's head that the Mac ought to duplicate, and possibly be downright subordinate to an iPhone and that thinking is wrong. The two are completely different devices, used differently, and very, very often possibly by different types of users. The way I use my iPhone is absolutely nothing like how I use my Mac and what I use it for.

If people come in to an Apple store that are considering switching, take a look at Yosemite, and fall into that 20% dislike category, it will be a lost sale. Additionally, a percentage of current users will likely either not upgrade their hardware as fast as possible, or give up on Apple all together.

Yosemite has the real potential of reducing Apple sales by 20% in the long run.

I really hope you're right and Apple recognizes the sales hit. Most of us on this thread are more demanding of the Mac like you, and have a sense of perfectionism, at least I know I do.

I can't help but believe Apple was an extension of Jobs taste and perfectionism. Seen that happen over and over here in the valley, founder CEOs have a huge effect on these companies.

 

[grahamperrin]

A more aggressive branching away from the looks of iOS?

Whilst Apple seems prepared to crowbar an excessively iOS-like OS X into the lives of Mac users, a crusader ponders a better path:

"… What will it take to get there? The short answer is a new commitment from Apple to this product line, and a willingness to reexamine the company’s entire approach to date. For instance, I’m not entirely sure it’s in the best interest … to be tied so closely to the iPhone. Ultimately, a more aggressive branching … away from the iPhone’s operating system may be necessary. Doing so may be the only way that Apple starts to answer the critical questions …"​

– http://www.subtraction.com/2014/10/28/ipad-at-a-crossroads/​

 

[JamesMike]

As a new Mac user, I like Yosemite, having used Windows, (still will), for many years found Yosemite easy to use and so far no problems.

 

[IA64]

As a new Mac user, I like Yosemite, having used Windows, (still will), for many years found Yosemite easy to use and so far no problems.

I guess you're talking about OS X and not Yosemite specifically ? Like comparing it to Windows ?

We're comparing Yosemite to its predecessors.