With iPad sales sagging, and iOS apparently being spanked by Android the way System 7 got clobbered by windows, that day of reckoning may not be so far off. That said, articles like this combined with graphics like this to produce a very murky crystal ball.
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Yosemite looks terrible!
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With iPad sales sagging, and iOS apparently being spanked by Android the way System 7 got clobbered by windows, that day of reckoning may not be so far off. That said, articles like this combined with graphics like this to produce a very murky crystal ball.
There are so many software companies that would love if what you said were actually true.
I think it looks okay, better than previous versions, but there are still many things that could look a lot nicer, such as the excessive use of blur on large areas.
Other than how it looks, I think the way it responds is terrible. Animations are laggy, sometimes they make this super expensive brand new top of the line computer seem like it's 5 years old.
I think responsiveness is more important than looks. I'd take an ugly but responsive system over a pretty but laggy system any day.
Other than how it looks, I think the way it responds is terrible. Animations are laggy, sometimes they make this super expensive brand new top of the line computer seem like it's 5 years old.
I think responsiveness is more important than looks. I'd take an ugly but responsive system over a pretty but laggy system any day.
Hmm
Also, I wonder whether the popular media spin on what 'truly' happened is as far from the truth as the corporate spin. Just in different directions.
There are benefits to some commonality of code, but I doubt that a single code stream is an aim of Apple.
That was sort of the point of me introducing the thoughts of someone who sees the iPad as being at a crossroads. Someone who wonders whether the OS for a device that is (widely perceived to be) similar to an iPhone should for its benefit gain an OS that is less like the OS for the iPhone.
Those thoughts run parallel and (I suspect) contrary to Apple's (Ive's?) thoughts of what is, what will be, beneficial to Mac users.
Hear hear. The differences between iOS and Mavericks never caused me to make suboptimal use of either OS.
" Ive may be a terrible software designer, but hes not an idiot."
There had to be a limit. A product of Sir Jony Ive's direction and leadership Yosemite leaves people like me feeling as if we were, we are, treated like idiots. I no longer know how to respond to that some edition and strikethrough is needed elsewhere.
I think, it's easy to find ugliness in Yosemite by comparing its parts to the parts in anything less ugly.
Also it's possible to find Yosemite ugly on its own demerits, without thinking in comparative terms.
The stats across the web are certainly interesting.
I see balderdash in parts of Business Insider, so in geneal I shouldn't treat that publication's opinions as particularly meaningful or murk-reducing.
That's better suited to the 'beautiful' topic. A response:
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=20333652#post20333652
That's another misplaced sentiment. I'll quote, and ask something related, in the 'beautiful' topic.
If the recent carelessness with design continues and if results of polls here can be extrapolated to disloyalty in the broader customer base then for long-term sales of Mac hardware, a more severe decline (greater than twenty percent) would not surprise me.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. If it reflects a broad mix of testers, that broadness is good.
Personally I worry more about the 'give it time, it'll become tolerable' mindset.
Also, I wonder whether the popular media spin on what 'truly' happened is as far from the truth as the corporate spin. Just in different directions.
There are benefits to some commonality of code, but I doubt that a single code stream is an aim of Apple.
That was sort of the point of me introducing the thoughts of someone who sees the iPad as being at a crossroads. Someone who wonders whether the OS for a device that is (widely perceived to be) similar to an iPhone should for its benefit gain an OS that is less like the OS for the iPhone.
Those thoughts run parallel and (I suspect) contrary to Apple's (Ive's?) thoughts of what is, what will be, beneficial to Mac users.
Hear hear. The differences between iOS and Mavericks never caused me to make suboptimal use of either OS.
" Ive may be a terrible software designer, but hes not an idiot."
There had to be a limit. A product of Sir Jony Ive's direction and leadership Yosemite leaves people like me feeling as if we were, we are, treated like idiots. I no longer know how to respond to that some edition and strikethrough is needed elsewhere.
I think, it's easy to find ugliness in Yosemite by comparing its parts to the parts in anything less ugly.
Also it's possible to find Yosemite ugly on its own demerits, without thinking in comparative terms.
The stats across the web are certainly interesting.
I see balderdash in parts of Business Insider, so in geneal I shouldn't treat that publication's opinions as particularly meaningful or murk-reducing.
That's better suited to the 'beautiful' topic. A response:
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=20333652#post20333652
That's another misplaced sentiment. I'll quote, and ask something related, in the 'beautiful' topic.
If the recent carelessness with design continues and if results of polls here can be extrapolated to disloyalty in the broader customer base then for long-term sales of Mac hardware, a more severe decline (greater than twenty percent) would not surprise me.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. If it reflects a broad mix of testers, that broadness is good.
Personally I worry more about the 'give it time, it'll become tolerable' mindset.
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There are some things I really like about Yosemite. But the UI is not one of them!
In general they did a better job with the icons than in iOS. I'm so thankful that they didn't use the same ones. But they are very inconsistent both in shape and most importantly the color scheme. Some are terribly saturated while others are actually pretty pleasing to the eye.
But most importantly, the usability has gone down the drain in this version. The brightness and the lack of contrast between both windows and interface elements makes this very hard to use.
Yeah, I know about the "increase contrast" feature. But first of all it makes it look even uglier, and secondly it should not be needed for people who aren't half blind.
The new system font was really not the best of choices. I like Helvetica Neue, but not in this context, and especially not on a low resolution display.
Yosemite does overall look a little better on a retina display, but since most Mac users still have a low res display it's kinda pointless to have an OS that is tuned for the minority.
I'm actually not against a flat design, but it is much harder to make a flat design both look good and retain usability. They haven't done a good job with Yosemite. I hope they are working hard to make it better for the next release, because this is actually embarrassing.
In general they did a better job with the icons than in iOS. I'm so thankful that they didn't use the same ones. But they are very inconsistent both in shape and most importantly the color scheme. Some are terribly saturated while others are actually pretty pleasing to the eye.
But most importantly, the usability has gone down the drain in this version. The brightness and the lack of contrast between both windows and interface elements makes this very hard to use.
Yeah, I know about the "increase contrast" feature. But first of all it makes it look even uglier, and secondly it should not be needed for people who aren't half blind.
The new system font was really not the best of choices. I like Helvetica Neue, but not in this context, and especially not on a low resolution display.
Yosemite does overall look a little better on a retina display, but since most Mac users still have a low res display it's kinda pointless to have an OS that is tuned for the minority.
I'm actually not against a flat design, but it is much harder to make a flat design both look good and retain usability. They haven't done a good job with Yosemite. I hope they are working hard to make it better for the next release, because this is actually embarrassing.
Then why did pretty much anyone who ever had to work with him also think he was a prick to work with?
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That's astounding! how scientific of you!
Yellowstone - Apple's New OS!
My version of what Apple may come to if it continues its current trend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akcPf5i3h24&list=PLCD0bGVKkYJor371acx3j9mR7hCmZfcG0
My version of what Apple may come to if it continues its current trend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akcPf5i3h24&list=PLCD0bGVKkYJor371acx3j9mR7hCmZfcG0
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In a Scott Forstall topic: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=20342252#post20342252
how scientific of you!
Why the sarcasm? That post by TheBSDGuy didn't imply that he was a scientist.
By coincidence, I collected some figures around the same time.
Code:
2014-11-08
US: around twenty-one percent dislike or hate
2086 / 14101
= 0.14793277072548 hate
2086 + 832 / 14101
= 0.20693567832069 dislike or hate
UK: around twenty-four percent dislike or hate
578 / 3412
= 0.1694021101993 hate
578 + 248 / 3412
= 0.24208675263775 dislike or hateI find the loyalty-related figures more interesting.
Thank you for posting this. I'm really, REALLY torn. There are some parts of Yosemite that I really like. I like how they trimmed down the toolbars in various apps like Calendar. I love the new design of Reminders. I LOVE SMS relay, the ability to close tabs of other devices in Safari as well as the new tab view. I also prefer Yosemite's blue command buttons and drop down menus to Mavericks'.
The issue, however, for me is this: I believe that Yosemite is (mostly) absolutely gorgeous to look at on a Retina screen.....to use it however is different.
I always see a quote from Steve Jobs that said something like "design isn't just how it looks, it's how it works." This is where Yosemite falls flat for me. Yes Yosemite is "beautiful" on the outside, but computer OSws aren't like paintings or decorations; they aren't superficial. They are meant to be used and to be easy to use.
Never once since switching to OS X with SL did I ever have the thought "that's hard to see/read." Never, and that's what I loved! Granted, I hated how bubbly SL was. Lion-Mavericks was a good refinement. To me, OS X was visually appealing (not gorgeous), but more importantly, usable. They refined the OS and made a nearly perfect operating system for me. Yosemite changed that.
- I can use it, but all menus are now translucent and darker with inherently less contrast between the text and the menu (it used to be black on white with very slight, subtly transparency). Drop down menus are the same way. They are less usable, but still workable. Okay
- Non-selectable items in the menu bar (like battery percentage) aren't even black!!!! They are some kind of light gray and I do have trouble reading it.
- Thin font. I loved that Friends video in an earlier post. Like I said, to just look at the font, it appears clean and beautiful, but when you start working with it, it gets old really fast. Mavericks used thicker font. This was necessary on standard displays, nice on Retina. It didn't look as clean cut or "crisp," but it wasn't ugly and it was very practical and easy to read. Honestly, I never once thought (I which this font was a little cleaner). It's text, it's meant to be read, looks should come after usability. It's worse on my 1080p monitor.
- the sidebar translucency looks nice when it's just one window, but when you have a parietal window behind it you can see the outline so the sidebar is part blurred background and part white. This is annoying. I'd rather have a static, even color flow.
I'll stop there. I'm sorry this post was so long, but I've been struggling with going back to Mavericks. I'm at a point now where I just want a stable, reliable OS. Like I said, I believe Yosemite is beautiful to behold, but with far less usability so overall it is "ugly" to me.
Another highly subjective thing, and I'm curious what others think, is that Mavericks and earlier versions of OS X felt like they had personality, identity, and they felt very polished and professional. Yosemite feels more cold and generic. This may sound stupid, but you develop a type of connection, so to speak, with the devices that you use for hours and hours and Yosemite feels more generic - like a fad. Also, I am an accounting major and work in several professional environments. Yosemite (and Windows 8 Metro to a degree) fell less professional. I just can't picture a business man or a video editor working at there desk with clients using desktop with all this translucency and over saturated (somewhat childish) icons. Do any of you feel this way? It's kind of a sad trend with Apple and the Mac. When I switched years ago the Mac felt like a very polished, fun, and professional environment with great apps that let you make professional looking products. Over time, the looks and functionality of OS X and iWork/iLife has been diminished and repackaged to the masses. It feels different now.
It's sad though, because Yosemite has some really great great features that make my iOS 8 and OS X ecosystem work perfectly (I adore SMS relay as its replaced Skype), but my Mac is my central hub and my work horse. I think design will trump features...
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Oh, and I agree completely about the increase contrast feature. It makes a light Dock solid white and haut makes the whole OS so ugly. Also, it's the principle! I shouldn't need to use accessibility settings when I have no disability. Just like with iOS...
That's astounding! how scientific of you!
I learned a long time ago to spell out even simple math in arguments because someone will always claim the figures are being pulled out of the air.
With that said, I think some in this thread are misinterpreting the intent. I have nothing against Apple, or for that matter Jon Ive, or whoever is responsible for the design. I just don't want to see Apple go the way of the Dodo bird, and bad decisions and products are one sure fire way to do it.
I think "reduce transparency" would make your life with Yosemite much easier.
...at least that's a start.Thank you for your candid post. I've been reading up on what other reviewers thought of Yosemite and I copied this partial piece from, I think, Ars Technica:
That's the thing. I expected more from Apple and not to follow the current "fashion" trend. In 2013, I moved from using Windows for decades to Mac. I was so impressed with the way OS X looked.....professional and stylish. I loved the advanced features in iWork. All this is changing fast and I'm not impressed that Apple keeps removing useful features. Regarding UI preferences, I just noticed in Messages, we used to be able to change the bubble colour. Well, that's gone in Yosemite.
Well, I've upgraded back to Yosemite, again. I really do like the new features since I have an iPhone and iPad and I want to be able to use the new features. If I could have used these features with iOS 7 and Mavericks, I never ever would have updated. That's a no brainer. With Yosemite, I need to have the Lucinda Grande hack because I have a NON-RETINA display. It's a legibility issue, plain and simple.
I've sent numerous feedback to Apple and I wrote a review on the App Store. I'm sure Apple sees, but doesn't listen and hopes this all dies down. I'm convinced that the five star ratings (1,595 people) on the Canada App Store are mostly from Apple employees. I've noticed that the overall rating has dropped from 4 stars to 3.5 stars this past week.
I have this nagging feeling that Apple will not address the various legibility issues. And yes Traverse, the menu drop down is hard to distinguish. What's with that? Why couldn't it be black print so I know what's available? Why did Apple think it was such a great idea to use the lighter shades of grey all over the UI? Baffling.
I'm okay for now since I have the Lucinda Grande script (thanks schreiberstein) and that helps a lot. Also, the cDock (provided by OSX Daily) helps to fix that ugly Dock when increased contrast is enabled. Apple should show what increased contrast and reduce translucency does to everyone's dock and the rest of the UI....not pretty at all.
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Remember back to 98 when the hugely bulbous looking iMac came out, and within a few years everything from staplers to waffle irons and toasters sported bulbous semitransparent casings in bright colors?
I don't think we'll be seeing toasters that pick up on the colors of the backyard lilacs in our kitchens anytime soon.
Thanks. That's better than OK, but less than good.
I wonder whether ratings will fall below good in other geographic areas.
Google finds it in a June 2014 Gizmodo article, Designers Explain Why Apple's New OS X Typeface Is a Strange Choice.
It wasn't too long a post. It's thoughtful.
Cold? The word that keeps returning to me is 'unforgiving'.
For a design in which a key feature is intended (by Apple) to make "your Mac experience different from anyone else’s", a perception of the OS as 'generic' suggests to me that the design failed to achieve its goal for such users.
Likewise.
I do find it difficult to hide the negativity that Yosemite inspires, and that negativity overflows into some of my writing about Apple, but it's not primarily a dislike for the company.
Recently, at a time of deep frustration, I did launch a few attacks, online, at Jony Ive. After around a week I struck through the angriest stuff – it was misdirected.
I think "reduce transparency" would make your life with Yosemite much easier.
That does help, but like I said, it's a principle of needing to use accessibility when I have no inherent disability. Also, it makes things so ugly in its own way, such as the Dock.
I know I'm being picky, when my desktop OS is the most important piece of software for me.
Thank you. The only real way to "make your experience different than anyone else's," as Apple claims, is to change your wallpaper, just like iOS. With Yosemite, that changes the entire temperature of the OS, but that's still so superficial to me.
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Also, now that I have used Yosemite heavily, I will say this: using Mavericks does now seem "UI heavy" if that makes sense.
Yosemite trimmed down the UI, used lighter colors, and the translucency does make the UI seem a bit "lighter" (that may not be the best word). When I go back Mavericks with the glass 3D dock, shiny icons, and heavy gray toolbars I do get a sense of "weight." and even a bit clunky. Don't get me wrong, I like both designs, but Mavericks is just easier to use so I prefer it.
I knew, and was okay with, the fact that OS X would be redesigned for iOS consistency and trends. I wish they done a more hybrid between Yosemite and Mavericks. Bolder font, slight 3D effects on certain elements, reduced translucency, etc.
Yosemite adoption stands at 24% this morning. It's not making the 0.7% per day adoption slope it seemed to have earlier. Mavericks-Recidivism may actually be a significant issue.
Are voters in these forums more optimistic about Apple products than voters at large?
Not specific to OS X Yosemite
A poll (one question, four options):
Are voters in MacRumors Forums more optimistic about Apple products than voters at large?
Not specific to OS X Yosemite
A poll (one question, four options):
Are voters in MacRumors Forums more optimistic about Apple products than voters at large?
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The problem is that Apple's entire brand image is based off of appearances. OS X doesn't do a single thing that Windows can't do.
I would say experiences rather than appearances. I find nothing wrong with how Windows7 looked. Rather, it's the environment from the "slow me down" registry to the malware threats and need to run malware software in the background 24/7 to security updates every other day that I find tiresome or irritating about Windows. There's the fragged hard drives that slow down over time unless you defrag them. There's the PITA registration crap with the OS where if you change your hardware configuration you might have to beg Microsoft to let you back into your own operating system (no protection on OS X so not an issue ever). With OS X, I can clone my internal hard drive and boot from an external one with no issues whereby I can easily replace the internal drive and/or use such a setup as a simple boot and re-copy backup. Backups with Windows are more of a let me PRAY the damn thing will restore and you often need a boot disc of another operating system in some case even since M$ is so paranoid you're trying to steal their OS.
In short, Windows is a freaking HASSLE. It's not what Windows CAN'T do, it's what Windows DOES DO that I don't like. It does game much better, however.
I do. One of the things that made Mac so enjoyable over the years were the little touches of whimsy in the interface. Claris the Cow Dog, the finder and its enigmatic smile (turned into an idiot grin in Yosemite), moving star fields in time machine, puffs of smoke to remove things from the dock, the login window "shaking its head" on an incorrect entry.
Those have been gradually going away to be replaced more and more with a "corporate, gray suit and red power tie look."
It really saddened me when the puff of smoke was replaced by a cold, impersonal, and very corporate "Remove" dialog. Images of the 1984 commercial, but with Tim Cook as the guy on the big brother display, flashed through my mind.
Not even close to true. Here are some things OS X can do Windows can't.
- Boot from an external USB drive.
- Have file paths longer 1024 characters.
- Have file names containing question marks, forward slashes, greater than / less than signs, asterisks, pipes, and quotes.
- Change a file name while the file is open
- Use fonts other than Microsoft-designed fonts without their shapes being distorted.
- Access accents and special characters without typing in unicode values from the number pad on your keyboard
- Drag and drop scripting with Automator
- Certified UNIX
- Unlimited separate Hierarchical menus in the dock (task bar for windows) rooted at any desired folder
- Place aliases (shortcuts) to anything in the Finder (Explorer) toolbar
- Tags (formerly labels)
- Define system wide and app specific shortcut keys
These are just the ones off the top of my head.
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Yep. The best way to describe using Windows is death by a thousand paper cuts. Apple seems to be adopting that philosophy, because Yosemite is quite an annoying OS to use in its own right.
While I agree with you, I don't think Cook is to blame for OS X. Hew oversees the company as a whole. As long as OS X passed the internal design team it will be released.
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After much Deliberation, I reverted back to Mavericks. I've never gone back to an earlier operating system before, but I just missed Mavericks.
It wasn't that I was unhappy with Yosemite, like I said I actually did like many parts of the UI. I'll miss some of it's features like SMS relay, but Mavericks was just easier to use and read in my opinion. Yosemite was not unusable, but it just feltdifferent. Like the poster above me, they removed all of the little accents that made OS X special. I realize that I will probably have to upgrade eventually to keep up with iOS and later technologies, but for right now in the foreseeable future I'm going to stay here on Mavericks and see how Yosemite in the next version develops.
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Um, could someone explain what I'm supposed to see in that image. I don't know the reference.
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About Finder v1.1 1984. With System 7 (91) there were plans to zoom out gif style to show the original image was actually a closeup of the space between Clarus' ears. Never realized, but high fashion and pretty innovative for the time.
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