Try whatever animation while loading a heavy webpage on Safari, it's even worst...
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Yosemite looks terrible!
- Thread starter OldGuyTom
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Try whatever animation while loading a heavy webpage on Safari, it's even worst...
Well you're really not stuck with it. If you look around on this forum you'll see lots of people have reverted back to 10.9.
Oddly enough, over at GoSquared, both Yosemite and Mavericks adoption are simultaneously trending upward (Yosemite 29% Mavericks 43%).
That shouldn't be possible, except it looks like Lion taking a beating.
Why can't you just go back to Mavericks?
If it came with Mavericks you should be able to use internet recovery.
If you downloaded Mavericks you can download it again and make a bootable drive with the instructions here.
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such as?
Have you not read anywhere in the Yosemite forum?
Granted, when I ran it on my rMBP it was surprisingly smooth, but I still found occasional UI glitches.
Off-topic: various
For unintended bugs, please aim for one of the more relevant topics, or OS X Yosemite (10.10) Bug Thread.
If you previously installed Mavericks on the same Mac, you're not stuck with Yosemite. You can revert or install but not downgrade (although most people do use the word 'downgrade'). Please see the various answers at http://apple.stackexchange.com/search?q=[mavericks]+[yosemite]+downgrade and elsewhere.
For unintended bugs, please aim for one of the more relevant topics, or OS X Yosemite (10.10) Bug Thread.
This topic is for the perceived terrible looks of Apple's intended design.
If you previously installed Mavericks on the same Mac, you're not stuck with Yosemite. You can revert or install but not downgrade (although most people do use the word 'downgrade'). Please see the various answers at http://apple.stackexchange.com/search?q=[mavericks]+[yosemite]+downgrade and elsewhere.
Actually animation and gerky UI is part of the looking awfully terrible thingy.
I doubt it's a bug to be honest, it's the way it was coded.
Oh yes I have... His post was still way too vague to be considered genuine that's all.
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I tried again to like the look of Yosemite, but that failed. I Dl'ed originally a couple days after release, and reverted back to ML after only two hours. This time I said I was going to give it a week and try to get used to the look, but shortly before 1 day I had to revert back again.
Biggest issue for me is the traffic light buttons look horrible to me and the toolbar not being the solid gray anymore just irked me. I don't mind the fonts but overall I don't think anything looks better IMO. The icons are too kiddy as well. Overall the OS reminds me what a teenage girl would use if you had a choice of a few skins when you first fired up OSX.
Overall it seems to be more liked on aesthetics than disliked, so I guess I will have to stay with ML/Mavericks as long as I can. Yosemite just is too loud and less subtle on the eyes for me. Wish someone could make a transformation pack like Stardock does for Windows.
Just not for me. I rather Apple just went for a retro look to change it up since I guess you have to do that once in a while. Maybe give it a Panther/Tiger type retro look would be fine for me, but that ain't happening.
Biggest issue for me is the traffic light buttons look horrible to me and the toolbar not being the solid gray anymore just irked me. I don't mind the fonts but overall I don't think anything looks better IMO. The icons are too kiddy as well. Overall the OS reminds me what a teenage girl would use if you had a choice of a few skins when you first fired up OSX.
Overall it seems to be more liked on aesthetics than disliked, so I guess I will have to stay with ML/Mavericks as long as I can. Yosemite just is too loud and less subtle on the eyes for me. Wish someone could make a transformation pack like Stardock does for Windows.
Just not for me. I rather Apple just went for a retro look to change it up since I guess you have to do that once in a while. Maybe give it a Panther/Tiger type retro look would be fine for me, but that ain't happening.
Well, considering that there is a huge percentage of aging population with more disposable income, I really don't get why Apple went with flat buttons, low contrast, thin, sometimes tiny and really light HN font for iOS and now O SX UI. I swear, I couldn't make out what was on/off in the menu drop down. I had to go back to the Lucinda Grande script again because in the 10.10.1 update there was nothing done to fix this font problem. Very maddening.
http://ucalgary.ca/pip369/mod9/aging/sv
I've read through much of this thread and found some very interesting arguments. Overall, like I said, I did find Yosemite visually appealing. I missing losing the fun "button" aspect to most buttons, but ultimately I downgraded to Mavericks for usability.
I came across this in another thread and it pretty much summed out how I felt about the thin, light-grey fonts on top of dark translucent menus and sidebars.
I mean I COULD read it but I actually got a headache a few times! I don't know if that was coincidence or not.
I came across this in another thread and it pretty much summed out how I felt about the thin, light-grey fonts on top of dark translucent menus and sidebars.
I mean I COULD read it but I actually got a headache a few times! I don't know if that was coincidence or not.
Basically they've tossed more or less universally accepted standards out the door completely.
It seems like someone doesn't really know or understand what they're doing.
Moving targets
Certainly the problem below is an Apple design:
I'm almost certain that it's simply bad practice to have moving targets such as that.
Bad, Apple. Not innovative. To many users who have not previously encountered moving targets, the animation may be impressive. Ultimately it's bad.
Postscript
I recall, but can't find, another article criticising the animation of text.
When I first tested Yosemite, the moving targets were immediately noticeable as problems, but I can not find a note of the problem in my records of feedback to Apple. This is, almost certainly, one of many problems that I simply didn't bother to report. I know, that's defeatist, but honestly: so many things were wrong about the design of pre-release Yosemite, I had almost zero confidence that whoever drove those changes would respond reasonably.
Certainly the problem below is an Apple design:
"… like other search fields in Yosemite, the address field center-aligns its contents when it doesn’t have the input focus, but it switches to left-aligned (with an animation) when it gains focus. This makes for a lot of sliding around and waiting in a field that some people (e.g., Web developers) use many, many times a day. …"
I'm almost certain that it's simply bad practice to have moving targets such as that.
Bad, Apple. Not innovative. To many users who have not previously encountered moving targets, the animation may be impressive. Ultimately it's bad.
Postscript
I recall, but can't find, another article criticising the animation of text.
When I first tested Yosemite, the moving targets were immediately noticeable as problems, but I can not find a note of the problem in my records of feedback to Apple. This is, almost certainly, one of many problems that I simply didn't bother to report. I know, that's defeatist, but honestly: so many things were wrong about the design of pre-release Yosemite, I had almost zero confidence that whoever drove those changes would respond reasonably.
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What a mess
Sane advice from Traverse thanks. However
Hello to Yosemite, hello to OS X Human Interface Guidelines that lack sense.
Farewell to consistency and predictability. Consider the screenshot that I posted a few days ago. With a preference for blue appearance:
Questions for anyone, concerning the button in lieu of a title.
Can you name the build of the operating system?
What happens when you first click the button?
What happens when that first click is followed by a second click?
What happens when that second click is followed by a third?
If you had not previously used the app: would that button (in lieu of a title) allow you to know the name or nature of the app?
I'm not opposed to anything in general, if that thing is well implemented; not detrimental to usability; and so on.
User experience: some links recommended reading.
If Apple had generally used the sense that's evident in areas such as Stack Exchange, before seeding Yosemite, I'm fairly certain that OS X 10.10 would have been far less horrible a release.
Yosemite buttons did appeared nice, but I never tested for long enough to say how they might feel after extended use. Moreover I was doing everything possible to avoid Apple's abnormal defaults, so I'm not really in a position to comment on how buttons might have looked with what Yosemite treated as a 'normal' appearance.
I'm not sure exactly what's meant by 'lighter gradient' in that context but an hour or so ago:
Yosemite was too bright, too harsh
Yes. Feedback to Apple in July 2014:
Yosemite translucency (including reduced translucency) is truly awful
When I review feedback and recall that I was desperately, politely trying to sound alarms within Apple long before release the feeling now is crushing.
Lack of forethought by Apple
Before reading the posts by Sasuga, below, think about first impressions of Yosemite. Those ****ing hideous blue folder icons. What's the first thing you want to do? Switch off the blue appearance
It's reasonable to assume that red, yellow and green were not seen because the customer had tried, failed, to stop seeing the offensive blue.
Lack of forethought by Apple.
Designers in a bubble. A bulldozer, carelessly driven. A shameful episode in the history of the Mac.
Sane advice from Traverse thanks. However
Hello to Yosemite, hello to OS X Human Interface Guidelines that lack sense.
Farewell to consistency and predictability. Consider the screenshot that I posted a few days ago. With a preference for blue appearance:
Questions for anyone, concerning the button in lieu of a title.
Can you name the build of the operating system?
What happens when you first click the button?
What happens when that first click is followed by a second click?
What happens when that second click is followed by a third?
If you had not previously used the app: would that button (in lieu of a title) allow you to know the name or nature of the app?
I'm not opposed to anything in general, if that thing is well implemented; not detrimental to usability; and so on.
User experience: some links recommended reading.
If Apple had generally used the sense that's evident in areas such as Stack Exchange, before seeding Yosemite, I'm fairly certain that OS X 10.10 would have been far less horrible a release.
Yosemite buttons did appeared nice, but I never tested for long enough to say how they might feel after extended use. Moreover I was doing everything possible to avoid Apple's abnormal defaults, so I'm not really in a position to comment on how buttons might have looked with what Yosemite treated as a 'normal' appearance.
I'm not sure exactly what's meant by 'lighter gradient' in that context but an hour or so ago:
Yosemite was too bright, too harsh
"
Too light, too bright. I tried Yosemite again a few days ago, but not for long. Uncomfortably bright.
Restarting Mavericks, OS X 10.9.5, was a relief.
----
The excessive brightness was probably one of many problems that I simply didn't bother to report. I know, that's defeatist, but honestly: so many things were wrong about the design of pre-release Yosemite, I had almost zero confidence that whoever drove those changes would respond reasonably."
Restarting Mavericks, OS X 10.9.5, was a relief.
----
The excessive brightness was probably one of many problems that I simply didn't bother to report. I know, that's defeatist, but honestly: so many things were wrong about the design of pre-release Yosemite, I had almost zero confidence that whoever drove those changes would respond reasonably."
Yes. Feedback to Apple in July 2014:
Yosemite translucency (including reduced translucency) is truly awful
"
Examples such as this are alarming. If Apple can't get it right first time with an app QuickTime Player that has a long history of being user-friendly, then (I suspect) there's a great risk that third party developers will also make a mess of things.
(HOW MANY MORE CASES AND EDGE CASES WILL THERE BE?) "
(HOW MANY MORE CASES AND EDGE CASES WILL THERE BE?) "
When I review feedback and recall that I was desperately, politely trying to sound alarms within Apple long before release the feeling now is crushing.
Lack of forethought by Apple
Before reading the posts by Sasuga, below, think about first impressions of Yosemite. Those ****ing hideous blue folder icons. What's the first thing you want to do? Switch off the blue appearance
It's reasonable to assume that red, yellow and green were not seen because the customer had tried, failed, to stop seeing the offensive blue.
Lack of forethought by Apple.
Designers in a bubble. A bulldozer, carelessly driven. A shameful episode in the history of the Mac.
Yosemite's toolbars in apps such as Safari and System Preferences do have gradients like in Mavericks, but Apple dramatically lightened them to the point where they look white at a glance.
Also, I'm mixed the the title bar issue. In apps like Safari I think they are necessary. Even in Maps and contacts they couldn't hurt. In some apps like Calendar or System preferences I don't see a point in have a bar that just reads "Calendar" or "System Preferences," but that's just me.
I am glad you submitted this. I sent similar feedback during the beta, but I knew Apple wouldn't change. Yosemite is bright, but that only bugs me at night when i'm tired. As for the translucency, small hints are okay to me. For example, the menu bars in Mavericks were transparent. I don't care if they add some slight translucency to that and to the dock and Notification Center.
My issue was the level of transparency and sticking it where it doesn't belong. I use dark wallpapers usually. If I control-clicked an item on my desktop in Mavericks I was given a white, slightly transparent, menu with black text. In Yosemite, the entire menu was a dark, murky glass look with the black text. While I could see it, I felt like it could cause eye strain. Additionally, in Mavericks I was able to glance and keep working where as I had to stop and look in Yosemite because I could see as easily at a glance. I think this comes back to the issue with that app you posted. In Mavericks, buttons, toolbars, menus, they were all easily seen at a glance and readily recognizable. In Yosemite they tried to make everything too uniform and apps/features lose their distinctness. I also dislike the translucency in sidebars. It wouldn't be that bad if Apple (1) toned down the transparency and/or (2) bolded the text to increase the contrast. I think Yosemite will eventually see a "bold text" option, but that comes back to the principle of needs to adjust the system. To me, it should come out of the box ready to be used and usable. Yosemite is usable, but I think you know what I mean. Still, the most abhorrent example of translucency are in apps like Pages. In Safari you are growing and it could be argued that the translucency helps somewhat....I don't know...but in apps like Pages you are creating content. There is NO reason for those apps to have translucent menu bars. Soon, everything will be translucent! You will be able to see hints of your wallpaper and windows behind your current document as your write or behind your picture as you edit!
I exaggerate of course, but that's how I often feel.
Also, you're right; the reduce transparency does not help like it should. As long as the system is usable, I can live with ugly, but I shouldn't have to deal with ugly (granted it is subjective). Yosemite was designed around translucency and you disable that the OS looks oddly crippled to me. God forbid you use the "white/light" menubar and dock because you'll be blinded. If you use the dark theme you'll get a slightly less offensive grey blob. Apps like Finder look odd somehow because the sidebar becomes that weird grey/tan. Apple should have taken more care to optimize the interface for Retina/non-retina/translucency/no-translucency.
*Disclaimer: Due do an eye condition I have mildly severe colorblindness. I can see colors, but they don't always look as intended to me so some of my opinions may not be sound.
I disagree. I think much thought and consideration when into the Yosemite UI, it's just a new mindset. Yosemite represents a new design language for Apple that started with iOS 7. I just hope that they retract a little or at least give users the option to customize the UI to an extent.
EDIT: A few more thoughts.
I thought it was interesting when they introduced Yosemite that Craig made a point to say that it made a "more usable" versions of OS X. I don't agree, but that shows me that Apple knew there would be concerns over it. I had hoped that that meant Apple would tweak things more than they did during the betas.
Also (speaking only about contextual menus and sidebars) Yosemite's usability to me seems to be effected too greatly by your wallpaper choice. This is unacceptable to me. For example, if you choose a light wallpaper wight he white theme then menus and sidebars take on a brighter appearance which helps with the text. If you use a dark wallpaper than you have dark text on a dark menu. No. Dark mode helps this in the menubar by enabling white text on a darker menu, but even then, wallpaper choices greatly affects this. Apple needs to expand dark mode to control-click menus and maybe even sidebars. Also, your OS experience shouldn't' be defined by your wallpaper.
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I disagree with your disagreement
. I think very little thought and consideration went into the UI, but rather a whole lot of ego and agenda did. This is someone's idea of what is hip and cool, but the fact it breaks so many foundational rules of good UI, and can be shown through empirical example why it is a regression in usability, is pretty good proof that not a lot of thought was involved in the design.I disagree with your disagreement
I agree 100%. I never thought I would hate OS X but now I do with Yosemite. If this crap is what we're going to be stuck with I'm gone. I can't stand using it for anymore than an hour before it puts me in a bad mood.
I disagree with your disagreement
Fair enough. I agree that they broke too many foundational rules of UI, but I do think Craig was sincere when he discussed their work to "refine" the experience. Their focus is just in a new UI design that disregards many of their UI rules that took years to make. I don't get it, but I hope they realize this.
Can you share your reasons for that lack of confidence in Apple, or are they private?
I experimented briefly with release 10.10.1 (14B25), allowed Yosemite transparency, allowed Yosemite lack of contrast and switched off f.lux to see how things felt.
Does the toolbar of a window become even brighter when the window in the background? (Is that my imagination?)
There may be edge cases where Yosemite transparency can increase usability, but I reckon that for most people who like or love it, the pleasure is – simply – finding transparency where previously things were opaque. To most Mac users, it's novel. It does have some wow factor. Pleasure from the simple fact of transparency appearing – without regard for the appropriateness of allowing appearance, within a window, of something unrelated to that window.
Transparency may be bearable when things are static, but if (for example) I have the iCloud home page behind a sidebar of Console, then the effect when I scroll – detachment of content from the relevant part of the window – reduces usability. It's just wrong, Apple, it's wrong.
Reduced usability aside, I imagine that some transparency can add wow factor to slow motion Mission Control transitions. At this point in a transition, for example:
However, at a different point in a transition the icon of what's not in front appears more in front than what's in front:
In less than an hour I developed the headache that comes only with use of Yosemite. For an operating system to have that effect is inexcusable. It really makes me wonder whether Apple is losing it.
To compose this post without a headache I reduced contrast, chose very bright backgrounds for both desktops, inverted colours and switched to greyscale. After around fifteen minutes the headache began to subside but it's not practical to work in this way; things are not as recognisable as they should be (I could not recognise Terminal, and so on).
Code:
Mashemite:~ grahamperrin$ sw_vers ; uptime
ProductName: Mac OS X
ProductVersion: 10.10.1
BuildVersion: 14B25
21:25 up 56 mins, 2 users, load averages: 1.08 1.22 1.25
Mashemite:~ grahamperrin$ uptime
21:45 up 1:16, 2 users, load averages: 1.09 1.14 1.15
Mashemite:~ grahamperrin$Shame on the designers of Yosemite. Time to restart; back to Mavericks for me …
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Apple never retracted their design choices on iOS, they only added Accessibility features after the fact. I have been less than impressed with Apple's software lately. OS X Mavericks was great, and the promise of iOS 8 was great, but it was terribly buggy. Inexcusably so. I feel that Apple's arrogance (not Jony's in particular) is somewhat stronger now. Or perhaps their arrogance is the same, but they are just betting on more controversial decisions.
If the masses love it, which I think they will, it will be a success.
Yes, it does.
I love how you said this. Even I had a "wow" moment when experiencing it on a Retina display (less so on a standard display). Like I said in previous posts, I do think Yosemite is beautiful to look at, but not as nice to work with.
Carelessness in design
A Help menu option in OS X 10.9.5:
Supposedly refined, OS X 10.10.1:
"If you expect me to buy something where all I can sense is carelessness, actually I think that is personally offensive," Jonathan Ive said. "It's offensive culturally, because it shows a disregard for our fellow human."
A Help menu option in OS X 10.9.5:
Supposedly refined, OS X 10.10.1:
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I don't know why they wouldn't put a blinking cursor in there, but pretty much everything about Mavericks had a clearer presentation. That isn't as big a deal to a computer savvy user like you or I, but it can be off putting for novices. Plus, it can even help experienced users when working with programs that are unfamiliar.
The cursor within that Search field does blink consistently and clearly in Safari in Mavericks.
One of the Yosemite screenshots coincided with the off part of the blink. I don't intend to reboot Yosemite but I suspect that the blinking cursor disappears when the 'x' is clicked.
I edited my previous post to include a Mavericks shot that's more suitable for comparisons.
I find it somewhat ironic and funny when people complain about Yosemite's awful new contrasts...
What about Ive's quote? I don't see carelessness in those Yosemite screengrabs - a different approach perhaps, which obviously doesn't seem to appeal to everyone, but carelessness no.
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