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snorkelman

Cancelled
Oct 25, 2010
666
155
Ive is basically, as far as I'm concerned, a glorified box designer.

Do have to wonder what negative impacts arise from clocking into work each morning to help produce a vision that you have no faith in, at behest of a man who (whatever his other talents) you dont believe is up for that particular job.

Been there. Seen that. Doesnt usually turn out well
 

Choctaw

macrumors 6502
Apr 8, 2008
324
12
Etan1000

Thanks for your input, I certainly am in agreement with you as I stated, lets send feed back to Apple and if it were possible visit Steve Jobs grave site singing "Look what they've done to your song."

Maybe if enough of us down play Yosemite in several venues it will bring attention to the right people informing them " your off course and need some corrections or your user base might dwindle soon." Surely it will work out over time, there are millions of users who over the years have saluted the Apple flag and would hate to take it down.
 

grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
Thoughts

… Apple is as sneaky and curious as any other organization. They have a spy network second to none looking for trouble spots affecting their beloved products. …

In this context – MacRumors – we can't call readers from Apple 'spies'. MacRumors content is predominantly public.

Writers from Apple may choose to obscure and/or modify their identity, but that's not peculiar to Apple.

If I worked for Apple (I don't, never have done), I'd choose to not reveal that relationship when writing in public. I wouldn't want to be treated as a handy zero-cost Apple support resource or go-between, but those things would surely happen – in inappropriate places – and the value of discussions would go downhill fast.

… The more we can put this Yosemite mess in Apples face the better chance they can pull their heads out of darkness and fix it.

For what it's worth, I know that problems with the appearance of Yosemite are acknowledged.

… buyers are the fools that are asked to use unacceptable products and keep quiet …

Respect for nondisclosure agreements is a good thing.

Where such agreements do not apply, I personally can not fault Apple.

… Venting on the internet is considered by many corporate insiders, rightly or wrongly, to be a form of cathartic relief. …

Catharsis – cleansing or purging – is almost always a good thing.

… "Hmm, this guy/gal seems very proactive - who knows how far he/she might go with the tirade against our product?":eek:

Simultaneously (a) not far enough and (b) too far, depending on a person's point of view.

I take responsibility for what I write here. …

… can't escape responsibility …

Yeah. Someone reading my posts might be required to respond in a particular way. If so, that's simply their responsibility, and that response need not reduce my respect for that person.

… urging everyone to also send their rants directly to Apple at the url I furnished above.:)

Best wishes, Etan:)

+1
with a plea to not simply rant.

If you can, make the feedback to Apple something that can be easily classified by whoever reads it. Imagine that classified item being passed from person to person, at different levels. Or counted as one of a number (a great number) of classified items.

----


Three MacRumors news articles from around that time:

Original iPhone Engineer Greg Christie Gives Details on Development Process (2014-03-25)

'Slide to Unlock' Engineer Greg Christie to Depart Apple After Fallout with Jony Ive [Updated] (2014-04-09)

Apple Confirms Retirement of Senior Designer Greg Christie Later This Year (2014-04-09)

– if readers have any thoughts on those two individuals, thoughts that are unrelated to the looks of Yosemite, it may be good to continue the discussions under those articles. I'm there …

(This Yosemite topic is very long. Let's not make it unnecessarily long; it's easy enough to subscribe to the other topics. Thanks.)
 

Michaelgtrusa

macrumors 604
Oct 13, 2008
7,900
1,821
Venting here about Apple's current design disaster is great for the gut, but please keep in mind that we are only preaching to the choir here - Apple does not read these boards, but they DO supposedly read this one:

https://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

So I urge everyone to copy the vents they have expressed or will express here, and then go to the above Apple Feedback page asking for comments on Yosemite, and paste in your whole rant, complete the few additional blanks required there and then hit the Submit Feedback button.

Please! - Do it!

Etan

If they don't read these boards , then they don't care.
 

Choctaw

macrumors 6502
Apr 8, 2008
324
12
I think just about every negative thing a person can say about this new Yosemite has been documented. So lets hope it gets straitened out and Santa brings us a much needed fix. I am watching this forum to see when a positive take starts to show up. Until then i'm staying with OS X Mavericks. There is an old saying that the more things seem to change, they really stay the same, NOT true on this one.
 
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grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
"… we have lost a lot of the wisdom of the past …"

… key employees in the early years who helped establish what is now one of the most valuable companies in the world.

TechRepublic has published an in-depth profile and interview with Bill Fernandez …

"… we are losing much of the wisdom that was embedded in the old 3D style of UI. For example: A user must be able to glance at a screen and know what is an interactive element (e.g., a button or link) and what is not (e.g., a label or motto); A user must be able to tell at a glance what an interactive element does (does it initiate a process, link to another page, download a document, etc.?); The UI should be explorable, discoverable, and self-explanatory. But many apps and websites, in the interest of a clean, spartan visual appearance, leave important UI controls hidden until the mouse hovers over just the right area or the app is in just the right state. This leaves the user in the dark, often frustrated and disempowered. … we have lost a lot of the wisdom of the past, as we're moving into a cleaner future …"​

Maybe Apple should hire Fernandez back...
 

Masada31

macrumors newbie
Dec 6, 2014
14
0
I bought a Mac Mini in 2012, nice machine, quad i7, put 16gb ram in it. It came loaded with Mountain Lion and I loved it. I had been a Windows user since 1995 (but as an artist and photographer had used Macs in school) and was clinging to XP but like many, when I saw what they were doing with Windows 8 I bolted, I thought for good. I installed Mavericks when it came out, even better in my opinion, basically seemed to fix and refine a few things that needed refining (though honestly I can hardly tell the difference between them). I also own an ipad 3, ipod touch 3g and my wife gets an iphone 5c through her work. I put ios7 on my ipad and although it didn’t impress much I was ok with it. Same on my wife’s iphone (now she’s on v8, they make her update her phone). The flat vs. 3d thing sort of makes less of a difference on a small touch device, at least for me.

So I was excited but thankfully cautious about upgrading to Yosemite. I read the reviews about how ugly it was and I have to say I agreed just from the screenshots but I thought I’d give it a try anyway so I put it on an external USB 3.0 SSD to give it a test drive. I can now say the ugliness is not fully appreciated via screenshots alone. I will admit it worked fine on my machine, no slow down, I use ethernet not wifi so I couldn’t test that but really, it felt no slower than Mavericks.

But it is ugly. It’s more than that, it’s plasticky, even unfriendly. Everything works ok but the “space” of the OS is just plain depressing. Gone is the warm, quiet space of the previous version. I thought of a glacier as I was using it...minimal, formal, impressive, but ultimately cold and inhospitable. The brightness and lack of contrast, the blue folders, the icons, the fonts...what are they thinking? Technology has the potential to alienate the user and unfortunately, Yosemite does this, at least to me. It’s like what OS X would look like if it were designed by soulless androids. It tries to be friendly using the cheap tricks of saturated color and empty smiles (Finder icon) but fails miserably under sensitive observation. It’s autonomous, it only impresses itself.

Maybe some users only care about function and can overlook aesthetics but for many (most?) of us, we cannot and the “ugly gap” between Windows and OS X has narrowed such that the seemingly unthinkable is now true: it’s a real horserace between the two for my next computer. And for what? The new features are not earth shattering. They’re out of significant ways to innovate this OS and coasting on the current “fashion” in UI design (largely popularized by them!). Apple, please, please reconsider this direction. Part of the pleasure of using a Mac was the soul, the warmth under that cold, sleek exterior. Why this obsessive need to make the “inside” look and feel like the outside? They need to look at the very best in automobile design...the outside of a car can express it’s machine nature but when you’re driving it you want to feel like every decision was made for human comfort, physical and psychological.

Very well written and so true and as someone said you should send it to Apple. The comments been left on the app store(u.s) regarding OS X Yosemite are not the best with the one star getting the highest rating . The reason I bought an iPad with iOS 6 was i missed the warmth of the OS but also the fun in using it, I just find iOS 7/8 cold it feels it was designed by a computer there is no soul to it, I used Yosemite for a day and just said no I don't want this on my mac its the same as iOS 7 and went back to maverick .
 

grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
Cold. Soulless. Unforgiving. UK and US App Store voters dislike OS X 10.10.1

… The comments been left on the app store(u.s) regarding OS X Yosemite are not the best with the one star getting the highest rating . …

… people actually like the OS :rolleyes: BTW, I can't find App store rating for Mavericks (which were around 2.5 stars I believe) …

I found no record of 2.5.

Mavericks OS X 10.9.5 gained four stars in the United States.

Yosemite OS X 10.10.1 has dropped to two stars in the United Kingdom, two stars in France. App Store voters in these regions clearly dislike the current version of Yosemite.

I found no comparable dislike of Mavericks.

OS X Yosemite changes how you see your Mac

… An elegant design that feels entirely fresh … we set out to elevate the experience of using a Mac. To do that, we looked at the entire system and refined it … simplicity, beauty … The more you use your Mac, the more you’ll notice, and the more you’ll love it. … making your Mac experience different from anyone else’s. … More elegant, from A to Z. … The type looks great on any Mac … OS X Yosemite brings a new look to apps like Safari, Mail, Messages, and more. But it’s not just about how much better they look. It’s also about …

… cold it feels it was designed by a computer there is no soul to it, I used Yosemite for a day … its the same as iOS 7 … back to maverick .

Cold.

Soulless.

Unforgiving

Well, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this. Could you explain a little more? …

Unforgiving; punishing. Every time I try Yosemite I get the feeling that it's punishing me for something. Repeatedly, quietly punishing me.

Why? What I have done to the system to deserve this? Whatever I did, can it not forgive me? Stop punishing me, Yosemite.

Yosemite, the first time you pushed your shopping trolley into the back of my ankles I assumed it was a careless mistake. Then the second time, then the third … the umpteenth – what's all that about? People tell me "you'll get used to it" as if there's nothing wrong. WTF? No. No. No. No. No. Just imagine it, being stuck in the queue at a supermarket with screaming garish children and the person behind you keeps pushing their trolley into the back of your ankles. And again. And again. And again. And again. That person, or the retailer, might intend to "elevate the experience" but the repeated annoyances …

… the repeated annoyances whenever I try Yosemite (the deeper I delve, the more annoyances I find) do not lead me to an elevated experience. It's a massive turn-off.

Sorry Apple, I'm just not feeling the love for this product. We're not feeling the love. Again, back to Mavericks.
 

tschunde

macrumors member
Sep 26, 2006
43
7
So nice to see that user ratings are this bad:

oCS5hT0.png


Wow! Great to see that there are many many others who dislike yosemite in its current form.
German App Store ratings are super negative :D
 

dmj102

macrumors 6502
Oct 30, 2013
253
46
Canada
If they don't read these boards , then they don't care.

I think Apple has employees assigned to read discussion boards and blogs. It would be bad business practise to not know what customers think of their products. I think Apple just picks and chooses which issues to address according to what they deem as pressing.

I have been troubleshooting an iCloud Pages legibility problem when using Safari browser on OS X. For some reason, when I view iCloud Pages documents in Safari browser, they are beyond distorted. I do have javascript on so I really didn't know what the problem is. I have no problems viewing iCloud Pages in Chrome.

Well, I posted on Apple Support Communities Forum a few days ago and no one replied to my question so yesterday I posted an "I give up and will use Chrome browser to view iCloud Pages post". This morning, I was surprised by an email from iWork@Apple requesting more information.
 

Masada31

macrumors newbie
Dec 6, 2014
14
0
Swiss App Store for OS X Yosemite 10.10.1:
***** 36
**** 9
*** 6
** 9
* 44

The overall mood according to the ratings is rather negative.

What I do find telling is when I'm in the caffe's with wifi and you see a lot of people using MacBooks but I have not seen one with Yosemite but I still see Mountain Lion on some as well as Mavericks .
 

Etan1000

macrumors regular
May 18, 2008
174
34
Well, here's a quick look at the consensus here on MacRumors itself:

Terrible: 2,192 posts; 207,556 views:mad:


Beautiful: 291 posts; 52,233 views:)


-Etan
 

Eithanius

macrumors 68000
Nov 19, 2005
1,556
419

Ulenspiegel

macrumors 68040
Nov 8, 2014
3,212
2,491
Land of Flanders and Elsewhere

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,530
19,703
Swiss App Store for OS X Yosemite 10.10.1:
***** 36
**** 9
*** 6
** 9
* 44

The overall mood according to the ratings is rather negative.

True. But if you'd bother to read the reviews, it is clear that most negative ratings is because of of installation problems and other bugs. Quick summaries of the latest reviews:

"great design, but very unstable"
"looks very nice, but my time machine stopped working"
"beautiful and elegant but very laggy"
"installation takes 20 hours, completely pointless!"
"vpn issues"
"awful design"
"not enough features for professional users"
and so on

From 28 reviews of 10.10.1 on the swiss store I have briefly read, only few were explicitly complaining about the design. At least three one-star reviews were actually praising the design, but gave low rating due issues they have experienced.

At any rate, my previous point still stands and I still don't see any evidence to the contrary. Only few users have distaste for Yosemite's new interface. I completely agree that there is an independent issue of Apple's quality control, which seems to have let some critical issues through. The reports performance and stability of Yosemite have been chaotic at best.

P.S. The petition for changing Yosemite's interface https://www.change.org/p/tim-cook-d...ption-to-go-back-to-the-old-theme-in-yosemite has collected 123 signatures over the last 1.5 month. A bit underwhelming given all that 'overwhelming negative reaction'.
 
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Osxweed

macrumors newbie
Dec 12, 2014
1
0
I don't know why they let Sir Jony do UI design. Sure, he has designed some nice hardware but that's a different field of expertise. :confused:

I just replaced my HDD and did a fresh install of Mavericks. Instantly realised how fugly and eyesore Yosemite had been for the past few months. It felt like going back to Mavericks was an upgrade. No more punch in your face kiddy color gradient. No more acid neon color folder. No more excessive transparency. Mavericks just feels a lot professional in design than Yosemite. :cool:

Flat UI can be beautiful if done right. El Goog's material design guideline is far cleaner than those random color gradient and white seizure in iOS. Not the best, but still a lot better. Heck, even Apple's own mobile website takes cues from material design (e.g. the top menu bar icon turns into a close button when pressed). Since Apple messed up iOS7 flat UI and continue to use similar assets to build Yosemite, all the ugliness remains.

Ugliness aside, I don't see a way to go back. With Ive being praised like a god-like designer, designers who do not share the same view with him will just have to leave Apple. Refinements such as toning down are more likely. But those good old days of snow leopard are gone. :(
 
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Ulenspiegel

macrumors 68040
Nov 8, 2014
3,212
2,491
Land of Flanders and Elsewhere
True. But if you'd bother to read the reviews, it is clear that most negative ratings is because of of installation problems and other bugs. Quick summaries of the latest reviews:

"great design, but very unstable"
"looks very nice, but my time machine stopped working"
"beautiful and elegant but very laggy"
"installation takes 20 hours, completely pointless!"
"vpn issues"
"awful design"
"not enough features for professional users"
and so on

From 28 reviews of 10.10.1 on the swiss store I have briefly read, only few were explicitly complaining about the design. At least three one-star reviews were actually praising the design, but gave low rating due issues they have experienced.

At any rate, my previous point still stands and I still don't see any evidence to the contrary. Only few users have distaste for Yosemite's new interface. I completely agree that there is an independent issue of Apple's quality control, which seems to have let some critical issues through. The reports performance and stability of Yosemite have been chaotic at best.

P.S. The petition for changing Yosemite's interface https://www.change.org/p/tim-cook-d...ption-to-go-back-to-the-old-theme-in-yosemite has collected 123 signatures over the last 1.5 month. A bit underwhelming given all that 'overwhelming negative reaction'.

I don't think it can be taken for granted that behind most negative reviews are only the problems mentioned (i.e. installation, lag etc.).

You can't be serious considereding such petitions a serious argument.
 
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TheBSDGuy

macrumors 6502
Jan 24, 2012
319
29
....At any rate, my previous point still stands and I still don't see any evidence to the contrary. Only few users have distaste for Yosemite's new interface. I completely agree that there is an independent issue of Apple's quality control, which seems to have let some critical issues through. The reports performance and stability of Yosemite have been chaotic at best.

P.S. The petition for changing Yosemite's interface https://www.change.org/p/tim-cook-d...ption-to-go-back-to-the-old-theme-in-yosemite has collected 123 signatures over the last 1.5 month. A bit underwhelming given all that 'overwhelming negative reaction'.

Just once. Only once. Will you please provide proof, other than wishful thinking, that the comment "I still don't see any evidence to the contrary" has any merit whatsoever.

I do hope people are complaining to Apple. I've given a negative review and give them negative feedback on their site. Maybe now I'll send stuff to Cook too.
 

grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
Yosemite es feo

…123 signatures …

Numbers of signatures to petitions

leman said:
… 28 reviews of 10.10.1 on the swiss store …

219 in France, where the most helpful review is entitled "jai mal aux yeux". 941 of 1,123 customers found that helpful.

Two stars in Japan, 161 ratings, the web interface to the store doesn't lend itself to automated online translation of more than three reviews.

Two stars in Spain/España, 241 ratings. At a glance the most helpful complaints are not about the looks, but there's no shortage of people finding it ugly on Twitter: https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=Yosemite feo

Elsewhere:
… and so on.

There's also praise for the looks, but from the people who find Yosemite ugly: some of the strength of feeling that's expressed in Twitter can't be vented in the App Store.
 

Etan1000

macrumors regular
May 18, 2008
174
34
True. But if you'd bother to read the reviews, it is clear that most negative ratings is because of of installation problems and other bugs.…

Reading those reviews suggests that people with terrible "installation problems and other bugs" are likely to be concentrated on those problems. I would not read into that that they were otherwise pleased with the interface!

Sounds too much like:
"But aside from that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?" :rolleyes:

-Etan
 
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