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xanrov

macrumors newbie
Feb 9, 2008
17
0
Asnieres, FRANCE
YOSEMITE not terrible, just ugly

12 years ago I was seduced by the beauty of the OSX interface. I kept a computer running Windows because of a few apps i couldn't find ported to OSX but beacme more and more involved with Mac.

When i down loaded Yosemeite , a few month ago, I was so disgusted by these infantile, flat, Window 8 llke, icons that I erased the startup drive and reloaded Mavericks. I'll try to keep it as long as possible.

I know i'll have to surrender in the end and follow the crowd. Yosemite, and the future versions of OSX , surely bring improvements but why is the interface so ugly ?
 

joedec

macrumors 6502
Jul 25, 2014
443
51
Cupertino
Apple Conversations Illegible

Am I the only one that finds the combination of Yosemite's bright white and fonts when reading Apple's Conversations (forum) makes the user text unreadable.

Its really messed, up I have to boot to Mavericks to read Apple's Yosemite forum.

I also noticed on Yosemite if you angle your display things improve. What did these guys do to these graphics, unbelievable.

The more I use Yosemite the worse it gets, I think that's why 10.10 did so much better than 10.10.1 in the App Store surveys. The problems just keep coming up the more you use it, so the longer its out there the more negative the reviews.

I really need to make this work, I hope they get it right this year, forget .2 or even .3 just someday would make me happy.
 

grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
Sunday morning, a long night

… worth noting what someone from 9to5Mac wants to do with Safari on Yosemite.

https://twitter.com/MikeBeas/status/527708014414143488 was unfortunately just a mock-up of what's wanted. (For a couple of weeks I imagined that he truly had Safar irunning as shown there.)

… Thanks by the way.

What's bothered me in this thread is that people are making problems out things that aren't (the calculator thingie).

In isolation, the problem with Calculator is relatively trivial (close to negligible).

It is nonetheless part of a greater problem with Apple suggesting that it's universally OK to abandon the title bar as a means of identifying, a means of distinguishing between some types of application for Mac users. This is not OK. From four pages back …


Seriously. Deaths, associated with inappropriate approaches to design. Whatever your opinion of Yosemite: please read that article by Jonathan Shariat. It's not long, just four minutes, not about Apple, very thought-provoking.

Consider the big pictures. Consider the ways in which some third party developers will mimic Apple's inconsistent approaches to Yosemite, without giving the necessary to thought to what's truly required from an application in a given environment.

Whenever, wherever I find a potentially troublesome user experience for Mac users emerging (as a result of iOS-style apps on OS X, for example), I'll not hesitate to criticise those designs. The Yosemite experiments must not be an excuse for lazy or careless development.

On my reading list, here in MacRumors: comments under Apple and IBM Introduce Ten Business-Focused 'IBM MobileFirst' iOS Apps. Glancing at the article alone, there's nothing healthcare-related, but companies such as IBM are often associated with healthcare (example) so people should keep an eye on such developments.

… lack of choice for every OS X version ever. And when a customisation solution comes by …

Yes … if I'm to upgrade from Mavericks, I must have the choice of an alternative to what Apple imagines is an acceptable appearance.

The user should be allowed to set preferences that suit the environment. A healthcare environment, for example. A dimly lit nurses' station, maybe, in a ward where all other lights are off whilst patients sleep. Maybe it's 03:00 and this future nurse is presented, in the dark, with an array of excessively bright/white windows, most of which are partly obscured and not suitably titled. On the ward, there's a critical event that requires urgent attention. The nurse reaches for something, naturally in a hurry. A click on the title bar. Does the required window come to front? Never say never …

… that's another example of why I'm so disappointed with Apple bulldozing ahead with such a contentious design. I must say, and I thought for a few months before saying this: the beta testing period for Yosemite was too rushed – too much was decided privately before testing began. Yes, it sometimes makes me angry. Yes, I recently visited a dear friend after midnight in a dark ward where the nurse was sat at a dimly-lit desk with a computer screen, hours before a surgical procedure that brings considerable risk of devastating consequences.

First rush the beta testing and then publish human interface guidelines? From a software-oriented organisation as influential as Apple, that's somewhat irresponsible; the company should set a gold standard for usability, clarity and so on; not a troublesome, less legible, harsher-on-the-eyes standard!

… I'm used to shortcutting between apps via cmd+tab and shortcutting windows via cmd+”, so I personally didn't even notice lack of titlebars. … probably just the way I use it.

Yeah, I also use shortcuts such as those extremely often.

It's fine, natural for some users, maybe a majority, to not notice titles :) but not OK for Apple to imagine that all other users of Yosemite will adapt to being deprived of such things.

----

Reining myself in again (what's above was drafted in the early hours … my friend who was in hospital for that op found out, just yesterday, that his brother's dead) …

Apple and influence

titlebars2.jpg


https://diigo.com/075ikk for highlights from Six Colors: Taking Apple’s lead

… Apple’s not sending such clear signals to developers. …

– recommended reading.​

Saccades

I don't use dual monitors because saccades, I prefer a single large screen …

For me it's less about distances (if that's what you mean) … more about learnt saccades, learnt consistently over decades, that are extraordinarily difficult to unlearn. More specifically: the (almost?) involuntary first movement of my eyes, to the centre of the title in the title bar, a movement that may be far more likely to occur after any period away from the screen (or computer). I don't pretend to be knowledgeable about these things, neither do I expect to find time to learn – it's a complex subject.

In terms that people might find easy to understand: on TV, I can't recall when, I saw a programme (maybe BBC) in which it was observed that dogs scan the human face in the same way as humans scan the human face. I don't know whether that's learnt, or genetic, or a mixture (such things are off-topic) but the point I'd like to make is that such eye movements – beginning in one place then travelling to other places – are very difficult to unlearn.

Side note: Left gaze bias in humans, rhesus monkeys and domestic dogs (PDF) – I have not read it, but it should be informative.

Mutual respect

… the comments of someone who has no respect for others and their opinions …

In a topic as long and contentious as this, it's easily overlooked (or forgotten) that leman is one of very few people who openly made an effort to increase their understanding of the problems experienced by other people. In the 'Retrospective' part of https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=20480268#post20480268, slowly reading from start to finish – it's not too long – should help to realise the participants' increases in mutual understanding. Not necessarily agreement; just understanding, and

… dedicated activity of two-three very passionate users. I rather see my role here as keeping the things sane by offering an opposite point of view. Which is ultimately a very silly thing to do. …

… That's not silly. In other situations, I play devil's advocate. …

… leman, I know that you're normally thorough and suitably balanced. I respect you for explicitly playing devil's advocate recently :)

Defocusing from leman: I believe that some of the more extreme disagreements, in topics such as this, are exaggerated or 'played' in response to things that are debatably trivial. Above, for example, Apple's abandonment of title bars for applications such as Calculator.

----

… negative votes should be reinstated on here. …

Please, let's take that to a more appropriate topic. Something in the 'Site and Forum Feedback' area. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1823601/ seems ideal, I responded there already.
 

deluxeshredder

macrumors 6502a
Nov 30, 2013
557
9
I'm sort of curious, does anyone of you actually have trouble identifying the calculator as such, or is this just a thing of principle about Yosemite? Because, no offense, it does come off as awfully rantish/trollish at this point... :confused:
The calculator on the right looks more polished.
 

grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
A Yosemite-like theme

From a topic about the Dock icon for Calendar:

… this themed approach from seven months before WWDC 2014:



– referred from Theming is still alive in Mavericks! (2013-11-05)​
…

That looks horrid. Like somebody made their Windows computer look like a bad lookalike of OS X.

The app icons don't bother me. YMMV.

For myself I would reduce the transparency of menus, and maybe prefer near-black text on a grey background (not too pale) for the menu bar.

The darkness of elements such as the combined title and toolbar, and status bar, is already nice enough. At a glance, that darkness is a very good complement to the light proxy icon.

One criticism: insufficient contrast in the title bar of the background window.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,529
19,701
Right now in the App Store Yosemite has 1329 1-star ratings and 697 5-star ratings. That's almost a 2:1 factor, and it should be given 2-stars by Apple, not 2.5. Those are facts. And there's more that a fair share of the "ugly", "childish", or "nursery school looking" comments about the UI.

Not questioning that. Still, please remember the topic of this thread. You people want to convince us that Yosemite's design is perceived as ugly by a large share of users. You quote the poor ratings as 'proof'. I say that ratings represent the issues that some people have with Yosemite's installation, NOT with its design. You call for proof. Well, you made the original claim ('Yosemite is ugly and most people believe that'). So its your job to prove it. And low reviews because of WiFi troubles or slow installation speed (all known, documented issues) do not prove your point.

I usually stop reading whenever someone inappropriately plays the 'minority' card but leman, I know that you're normally thorough and suitably balanced. I respect you for explicitly playing devil's advocate recently :)

Again Graham, I understand this discussion as 'is Yosemite ugly?'. I am definitely not arguing that everyone things that Yosemite is non-plus ultra of design. Its clear that there are enough people that react to its appearance negatively. However, I am not accepting this 'only casual users and kids like Yosemite', 'not suitable for professionals' nonsense. And this is why what you call 'the minority card' is the essential thing here - as far as statistical evidence goes, only 15% (worst case scenario) dislike the visual changes introduced with Yosemite. Most people either like it or don't care.


And anyway, it looks a bit weird when you 'accuse' me of playing the minority card and then immediately proceed to quite a single guy (Snell) and a single lurking poster (3rdGradeTchr) as third-party evidence. First of all, this thread has so many long-time reading simply because our bickering is a great show to eat pop-corn to, and not because there are so many Yosemite haters (again, multiple polls on these forums show this). Second, Snell might be an authority, but it does not mean that his opinion reflects that of majority. I read his stuff and I simply disagree. His arguments do not convince me. There are a lot of 'real' designers and journalist reviewing Yosemite and most stuff I read regarded the design favourably.

Simpler: there are the pleas for better measurements of Net Promoter® scores. The effort to measure need not be great, the task should not fall upon any individual.

Yeah, we've been there and I already said that in my opinion, your test is flawed. You can repeat the Yosemite test after 10.11 is released and compare that to Mavericks. Or at least wait some time until the big bugs have been ironed out.
 

Etan1000

macrumors regular
May 18, 2008
174
34
I don't understand the logic of arguing that those who are put off by and/or have difficulty working in Yosemite are in some sort of a "minority" and therefore its introduction is a success.

Why would Apple want to abandon even a minority of its loyal Mac users, many of whom may be forced or motivated to look elsewhere or, at the very least be dampened in their enthusiasm for recommending the Mac line to fellow workers, friends or enthusiasts?

If a minority of long-time Mac users just can no longer work productively and/or work joyfully and enthusiastically on their Macs, shouldn't/wouldn't Apple care?

Regards, Etan
 

Ulenspiegel

macrumors 68040
Nov 8, 2014
3,212
2,491
Land of Flanders and Elsewhere
...You people want to convince us that Yosemite's design is perceived as ugly by a large share of users. You quote the poor ratings as 'proof'. I say that ratings represent the issues that some people have with Yosemite's installation, NOT with its design. You call for proof. Well, you made the original claim ('Yosemite is ugly and most people believe that'). So its your job to prove it. And low reviews because of WiFi troubles or slow installation speed (all known, documented issues) do not prove your point.

leman, you know that I respect your objective attitude as I have already stated and of course your ungrateful role of "Devil's advocate".
I can speak only for myself. I don't have an intention to prove to anybody that Yosemite is ugly. I think that it is a failure in the XXI. century when we strive for perfection in all fields, inclusive the mirroring of the 3D world in which we live. It is the evolution from the black and white movie to coloured, from the 2D movies to 3D and IMAX. Yosemite as I have already said - in my view - is nothing but a playground for experiment for a very talented Bauhaus influnced industrial designer. A designer who after the passing away of S.J. gained momentum with the help of Tim Cook. A designer who wanted to make a unisone between the "outer" and the "inner" design of Apple products. But the clear, simple, attractive "outer" design exists in the 3D world, while the oversimplified, naïv/primitive art flat design in the 2D world. And this is the situation when an industrial designer should not take up the job of a software engineer.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,529
19,701
I don't understand the logic of arguing that those who are put off by and/or have difficulty working in Yosemite are in some sort of a "minority" and therefore its introduction is a success.

Why would Apple want to abandon even a minority of its loyal Mac users, many of whom may be forced or motivated to look elsewhere or, at the very least be dampened in their enthusiasm for recommending the Mac line to fellow workers, friends or enthusiasts?

If a minority of long-time Mac users just can no longer work productively and/or work joyfully and enthusiastically on their Macs, shouldn't/wouldn't Apple care?

I have briefly referred to this above, but this is a very good question so I'd like to sum my arguments up.

It is obvious that Apple decided to make a change in the overall art style of their operating systems. Any change like this will split the opinions. Some will embrace it enthusiastically, some will say "it's ok", some will shrug and say "don't really care as long as my Photoshop works" and some will say "why did they change it at all, the old one was working good?". Unfortunately, unless the last group is very sizeable, it does not have good cards, because Apple will not reverse its course unless the protest is VERY audible. And its not.

More specifically onto your question, I think there are two subgroups of users that you are speaking about. The first group experience limited issues with legibility, maybe some bugs that affect their work etc. I have no doubt that these issues will be fixed.

The second group has strong distaste for the new OS X paintjob (our Magnus is a great example of this). These are the less fortunate users, because Apple can't do much to help except taking their design decisions back. And as I said, this is not going to happen because Apple is in way too deep (e.g. massive API changes). So the obvious choice for Apple is just to ignore these users. Apple has their own vision. If a loyal Apple user disagrees with this vision, it might be the most reasonable choice for both parties to split ways. You can't keep everyone happy.

Just a small example about this. Some users have experienced problems with their vision when LED-backlight was introduced into Apple products. The reason for this is the hypersensitivity that some people have, which makes them unable to work with these kinds of displays. Did Apple offer a non-LED backlit option for those people? Or anything else? No, they did what a reasonable decision-maker would do — nothing. The problem was so minor that it would not affect the sales and the benefit from going LED was very clear.

Of course, there is no inherent benefit from Yosemite's design, its mostly a fashion choice. But the choice has been made. And while the reception is clearly mixed, the outcome is favourable for Yosemite.
 

Partron22

macrumors 68030
Apr 13, 2011
2,655
808
Yes
this is the situation when an industrial designer should not take up the job of a software designer.
To say nothing of the Engineers whose chosen method of adding functionality to an App always seems to be "hold down the option key while...".
Now this technique works great for specialized stuff that only I, or a small select group, who are in the know, are going to use, Where it fails is when you send out 15 million copies of said software without even a users manual to point out where the option key is likely to acquire magical properties.
 

eutexian

macrumors regular
Jan 6, 2012
119
9
Mapperley, Nottingham UK
I have to keep a pack of wet wipes next to my screen because every time I look at it I vomit. which is a bit of an irritant.. but at least for most of the time I have a lovely clean screen. recently though its become even more tedious with constant eye bleeds.. but the upside is it gives the desktop a lovely rosy glow with coordinates nicely with the black surround.

Im coping. just.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,529
19,701
I think that it is a failure in the XXI. century when we strive for perfection in all fields, inclusive the mirroring of the 3D world in which we live.

I understand what you are saying. Its unfortunate that so many things and perspectives are getting mixed up in this thread. Right now, we are getting back to this 'personal preference' perspective, which is great fun to talk about if one can do it civilised (as is any discussion about art).

Again, I understand what you are saying but I disagree. I do not believe that 3D is the best — or even remotely good way to convey information on a computer display, which is ultimately 2D, while using two-dimentional input devices.

The current 'flat' (I really hate that term) design is not really 2D. It introduces a number of dimensions that where not present in the naive, skeuomorphic 3D design. One of them is the conceptual grouping dimensions (lacking any better terms), where the combination of certain shapes, colors and constellations convey meaning in a particular sense. Another one is animation, which provides feedback in a fashion which is not possible with the interfaces (Google's material design is a very good example of this).

What we see currently is the development from the early naive 'resemble the world' designs to more abstract, conceptual designs. For the modern user, it does not differ whether the button looks like a real-world button, or whether its just a text label. The important thing is that the user knows how to recognise the button. Once the UI is conceptualised, the redundant visual cues that take useful space can be removed. This is the phase in the design that we are going though right now.

One of the reasons why I prefer Yosemite's design, except it being (again — IMO) cleaner and more consistent than Mavericks, is that it provides less visual distraction and gives me more space for my content. This is also the reason why I am appalled by Windows with its awful ribbon interfaces, which clutter the already small screen without doing anything useful.

But again — tastes are a difficult thing to argue about. Arguments can be made in all directions, the result depends on how you want to weight them. For a person like me, who wants the UI to be as minimal and clear as possible, Yosemite is a great win. For a person like you, who believes in a different paradigm, this is a step in a wrong direction. I am sure that the 'metagame' will take a turn at some point, it usually does.

----------

Where it fails is when you send out 15 million copies of said software without even a users manual to point out where the option key is likely to acquire magical properties.

The option key always has the same semantics (unless the App developer messes it up). I don't believe that an average Apple user is so dumb as to require a manual to "pressing option key will change some commands, be so kind to look though the menus while pressing/unpressing it and see what happens". What you are talking about is lack of education, not bad engineering. Bad engineering is Windows or Linux applications, where the modifier key might randomly be alt, control, shift or any combination of those.
 

Ulenspiegel

macrumors 68040
Nov 8, 2014
3,212
2,491
Land of Flanders and Elsewhere
To say nothing of the Engineers whose chosen method of adding functionality to an App always seems to be "hold down the option key while...".
Now this technique works great for specialized stuff that only I, or a small select group, who are in the know, are going to use, Where it fails is when you send out 15 million copies of said software without even a users manual to point out where the option key is likely to acquire magical properties.

True. (When I switched a month ago from Windows to Mac after more than 25 years I had to google where is the Option key which is actually an Alt key. Then, one of my "best friends" was "Switching to the Mac. The Missing Manual").
Nevertheless I don't think that an industrial designer has to design software. It may lead to disasters, like Yosemite (my personal view).

Just an interesting "article" that shows the inner world of software engineers:
http://noverse.com/blog/2010/01/what-is-a-software-designer/
 

aicul

macrumors 6502a
Jun 20, 2007
809
7
no cars, only boats
I'm confused;

This thread is about "looks" and the option key has nothing to do with that.

And the option key has been around for a long time so is not specific to yosemite
 

Ulenspiegel

macrumors 68040
Nov 8, 2014
3,212
2,491
Land of Flanders and Elsewhere
I understand what you are saying. Its unfortunate that so many things and perspectives are getting mixed up in this thread. Right now, we are getting back to this 'personal preference' perspective, which is great fun to talk about if one can do it civilised (as is any discussion about art).

Again, I understand what you are saying but I disagree. I do not believe that 3D is the best — or even remotely good way to convey information on a computer display, which is ultimately 2D, while using two-dimentional input devices.

The current 'flat' (I really hate that term) design is not really 2D. It introduces a number of dimensions that where not present in the naive, skeuomorphic 3D design. One of them is the conceptual grouping dimensions (lacking any better terms), where the combination of certain shapes, colors and constellations convey meaning in a particular sense. Another one is animation, which provides feedback in a fashion which is not possible with the interfaces (Google's material design is a very good example of this).

What we see currently is the development from the early naive 'resemble the world' designs to more abstract, conceptual designs. For the modern user, it does not differ whether the button looks like a real-world button, or whether its just a text label. The important thing is that the user knows how to recognise the button. Once the UI is conceptualised, the redundant visual cues that take useful space can be removed. This is the phase in the design that we are going though right now.

One of the reasons why I prefer Yosemite's design, except it being (again — IMO) cleaner and more consistent than Mavericks, is that it provides less visual distraction and gives me more space for my content. This is also the reason why I am appalled by Windows with its awful ribbon interfaces, which clutter the already small screen without doing anything useful.

But again — tastes are a difficult thing to argue about. Arguments can be made in all directions, the result depends on how you want to weight them. For a person like me, who wants the UI to be as minimal and clear as possible, Yosemite is a great win. For a person like you, who believes in a different paradigm, this is a step in a wrong direction. I am sure that the 'metagame' will take a turn at some point, it usually does.

Hands down. I really enjoyed your post.
(That does not mean that I have become a fan of "Yosemite design"). ;)
 

Etan1000

macrumors regular
May 18, 2008
174
34
I'm confused;

This thread is about "looks" and the option key has nothing to do with that.

And the option key has been around for a long time so is not specific to yosemite

I did not think that this thread is only about looks. As far as I have observed, it has been about at least three subjects: looks, legibility and function. Changing the function of the green traffic light icon in the upper left corner of the screen, so that one is required to hold down the option key in order to make it function as it always previously has, sounds relevant to me.

And if "majority rule" is somehow relevant to this discussion, as has been asserted, what percentage of users are truly seeking the result now presented when clicking that green icon without holding down the option key?

To many of us, it's as if we slid behind the wheel of our new car, turned on the ignition, and then, when we stepped on the gas pedal the car remained motionless but it turned the windshield wipers on. {Silly me, I forgot that now, when I want to move forward, I have to pull that little dashboard knob marked "option" whenever I step on the gas pedal. I'll remember it after awhile!}

Etan
 
Last edited:

Partron22

macrumors 68030
Apr 13, 2011
2,655
808
Yes
I'm confused;

This thread is about "looks" and the option key has nothing to do with that.

And the option key has been around for a long time so is not specific to yosemite
Option key use is merely a way of avoiding designing a properly non-modal GUI. Rather than dealing with complexity with excellent visual design, we're given poor design, and complex non-intuitive functionality.
If Apple felt so strongly about full-screen Apps, they should've left out the window zoom option on top left. If not quite so strongly, should've given four push buttons, or two and push/toggle dealt. This three with an option key on one of them is conceptually ugly.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,529
19,701
Changing the function of the green traffic light icon in the upper left corner of the screen, so that one is required to hold down the option key in order to make it function as it always previously has, sounds relevant to me.

Etan, to be fair, many users have complained about the Zoom functionality on OS X and there were many voices to make it "just like Windows or Linux", that is, a proper maximise button. Essentially, that is what Apple did. I can understand that people would be annoyed about this change. Personally, I never used zoom and I only sporadically use fullscreen mode, so I don't really care. The change at least gives me the opportunity to use that button once in a while.

BTW, the easiest (IMO) way to use Zoom is to double click the window frame.
 

Partron22

macrumors 68030
Apr 13, 2011
2,655
808
Yes
I don't believe that an average Apple user is so dumb as to require a manual to "pressing option key will change some commands, be so kind to look though the menus while pressing/unpressing it and see what happens". What you are talking about is lack of education, not bad engineering.
Even if I tell her repeatedly, my Mom will never remember to "hold down the option key while clicking on the little green dot so as to get the window to zoom like it should."
Do you know how to bring up the pre-iTunes 12 Get Info window when you have a need for it?
Sometimes, as in pressing the about device button seven times
to enable developer options in Android, the use of hiding tactics is appropriate. Slipping arcane moves in at random places throughout the OS so you don't have to think carefully about your GUI is classic bad UI design.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,529
19,701
Even if I tell her repeatedly, my Mom will never remember to "hold down the option key while clicking on the little green dot so as to get the window to zoom like it should."

...

Slipping arcane moves in at random places throughout the OS so you don't have to think carefully about your GUI is classic bad UI design.

Fair enough. To be honest, I did not realise that the discussion was about the zoom behaviour, I though its about the option key in combination with the menus. My fault, should have read more carefully.

At any rate, does your Mom even use the zoom function? As I mentioned two posts above, it seems to be one of the fewer used and more criticised OS X features (a clear sign of that is that is still does not have a default hotkey). So Apple is phasing it out. Maybe it will disappear completely in the future releases, maybe it will be kept for the sake people that actually use it, but remain a secondary option (just like now).

Bad design if you have window controls all over the window bar (as it was with the old fullscreen button). By making Zoom (a seldomly used function) less accessible and replacing it with a more often used function (Fullscreen), the interface becomes streamlined and functional. Its not bad design, its exactly the opposite. Even though its annoying to those users that use Zoom on the regular basis. Of course, what Apple should have done is provide a checkbox somewhere in the preferences that lets you specify the default functionality, this way everyone can be made happy.

P.S. I would like to address the possible impression that I am arguing for the sake of arguing :) I am not arguing (I don't really have an opinion on this). I am just providing possible logical reasons for a change that you find illogical.

P.P.S. As mentioned above, if you frequently use zoom functionality, the quickest option is to double click the title bar.
 

Partron22

macrumors 68030
Apr 13, 2011
2,655
808
Yes
Of course, what Apple should have done is provide a checkbox somewhere in the preferences that lets you specify the default functionality, this way everyone can be made happy.
Yup. Then I could've checked it on Mom's Mac, and never had to deal with that little mystery again. Full screen is quite naturally baffling to her, for me, it just feels like going back to MultiFinder days.
 

grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
Full screen (minimal distraction, minimal UI, much space for content)

… less visual distraction and gives me more space for my content. …

… For a person like me, who wants the UI to be as minimal and clear as possible, Yosemite is a great win. …

… I only sporadically use fullscreen mode …

Why do you not use full screen more often? I'm curious …
 

MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,196
1,452
Do you know how to bring up the pre-iTunes 12 Get Info window when you have a need for it?

Yeah, I right click (The mouse, remember that device?) and the context menu comes up and offers GET INFO. It's been that way since the dawn of OS X time (although Apple always hid their right button so I have always bought mice by someone else, the best of which is oddly the Microsoft Intellimouse USB 5-button, IMO).

Trying to remember bizarre finger gestures (that you sometimes activate unintentionally since they're "on" all the time) and weird touch pad + keyboard features...nah. GUIs were designed very early on to work with mice, not keyboards and not fingers. The mouse is still best for gaming. It's still best for GUIs. Touch pads suck. I carry a mouse in my bag with me wherever I go with my Macbook Pro.
 

Partron22

macrumors 68030
Apr 13, 2011
2,655
808
Yes
Yeah, I right click (The mouse, remember that device?) and the context menu comes up and offers GET INFO.
Nope. You right click while holding down the option key and the context menu comes up and offers get info, and when you select that the OLD STYLE (iTunes 11) info window appears. If you leave out the option key press, you get the new style (iTunes 12) info window. Pretty tricksy of those UI guys, huh? Holding down option key while choosing from the menu bar does not get you the old style info window. Oh, I take that later back, with iTunes 12.0.1 now that does give you the old style window, so there's evidence of at least some evidence of movement towards rational interface design.
 
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