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MultiFinder17

macrumors 68030
Jan 8, 2008
2,739
2,084
Tampa, Florida
What it generally boils down to for me is one of three things: Portability, reliability, and occasionally performance.

Portability: I have too many laptops that I use regularly for different things. I have one laptop that I use for teaching and one main laptop at home, then several other laptops at home for various uses and fun. For my school laptop, I have an M1 Air because I needed something light to tote between home and school and I needed something with long battery life given how I use it at work. For home, I have a 13" 2015 MBP as my main machine, a 2015 11" Air as my main machine to tote outside the house with me because it's so small, and a 15" 2010 MBP that I use primarily for writing these days due to the large screen and pleasant typing experience.

Reliability: For my work computers, I want something boring and blandly reliable. My M1 Air and 2020 27" iMac fill those roles beautifully. For home, I adore computers that need constant tinkering, hence the mix of computers between 8-14 years old that I regularly use. I enjoy restoring and working on computers, and keeping a collection of older machines running is a ton of fun to me.

Performance: Most of what I do is office productivity and light 3D modeling. I have a decent PC for gaming and don't play much more complex than World Box on my Mac. My work computers, the 2020 iMac and M1 Air, are both extreme overkill for my uses but I appreciate that they're snappy and do everything I need without having to wait. When it's me and 38 middle schoolers, there's no time to wait. For my home use, my main desktop is a 2013 27" iMac that does everything I need and more and my 2015 13" MBP has never failed to keep up with me.

Most of it is going to come down to preference for people, what they can afford, and what they want to afford. Could I buy a new Mac every couple of years? Probably, but I save a ton of money keeping notably behind the curve and the balance between saving and performance works for me.
 

sgtaylor5

macrumors 6502a
Aug 6, 2017
720
440
Cheney, WA, USA
I got passed by a Toyota Corolla in the carpool lane on the freeway the other day. A bit behind him was a dark blue Dodge Charger. I was doing 75 at the time.

The Charger had a few mods to it so it wasn't the base model. But I did notice the rims…and that told me it was a cop car. They always forget to upgrade rims when they buy these types of cars.

Sure enough, about 30 seconds later the Charger hit its lights and pulled the Corolla over.

The Corolla driver probably should have been driving a Porsche. :)
forget to upgrade?? I think they're black (and reinforced IMO) for the hard work they get put to.

The first thing I look at when I look at a passing car. I hate tickets.

----------

On to the point of this thread, and forgive me, but even though I'm running a 2017 MacBook Air 8/128 I still think this is the most appropriate forum and thread to post in (re: intentionally using older equipment in a forcibly modern, consumerist world).

I really don't think I need any other laptop than the one that I referenced above. I've always run with older computers and I've hardly ever bought a new computer. I've been computing for 36 years. I've always tuned my software to what my hardware will work with. I really couldn't afford nor justify buying a newer computer. That means I don't care what operating system/platforms I have to use and what software runs on them. The hardware dictates the software build.

That said, I think on this particular computer I'd rather run Catalina rather than Monterey, but Bear 2 will only run on Big Sur and newer, and of course Big Sur wants to upgrade to Monterey. I haven't found a notes app that works better for the way my mind works now than Bear 2. The only special piece of software I run on this laptop is Macs Fan Control Pro.
 
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ArkSingularity

macrumors 6502a
Mar 5, 2022
928
1,130
Portability: I have too many laptops that I use regularly for different things. I have one laptop that I use for teaching and one main laptop at home, then several other laptops at home for various uses and fun. For my school laptop, I have an M1 Air because I needed something light to tote between home and school and I needed something with long battery life given how I use it at work. For home, I have a 13" 2015 MBP as my main machine, a 2015 11" Air as my main machine to tote outside the house with me because it's so small, and a 15" 2010 MBP that I use primarily for writing these days due to the large screen and pleasant typing experience.
People pick on me for this, but I do the same thing. I have a lot of old computers laying around that nobody wants anymore (Core 2 Duo era thinkpads, etc), so I started putting them to use. One of them is used a music player near the drumkit, I'm using such an old machine primarily so I don't have to worry if a stick goes flying and breaks the screen.

I've given some of them away too, just depending on whether they were good enough to be useful. Some of them have been a bit difficult to part ways with (I have a bit of a thing for older technology), but it's not like I have any shortage of these things either. 😂
 
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Allen_Wentz

macrumors 68040
Dec 3, 2016
3,288
3,713
USA
I'm just going to relate my recent experience and let you decide…

2015 MacBook Pro issued to me in 2019 as my work computer. Two of my seven displays to my MacPro are 30" Cinema Displays. Easy to hook up to the 2015 MBP via a KVM and two Apple Dual-link DVI adapters. The 2015 MBP drives the two 30" Cinemas just fine.

In June 2023 my company issues me a 2022 13" M2 MacBook Pro. Immediately I discover that Apple has limited the 13" to ONE external display.

But guess what? I also gotta find a USB-C to Dual-link DVI adapter. And, oh, it's got to have HDCP off - because 30" Cinema Displays are not HDCP compliant.

That gives me ONE 30" Cinema Display. So how to work around that? A $180 dollar hub that my boss has to buy that has DisplayLink and a $35 DisplayPort to Dual-link DVI cable (again, HDCP off) that I myself bought.

BTW, both these dual link cables/adapters are only offered by Club 3D. It took a month to figure all this out and my boss is in it for $230.

So this, compared to buying two Apple dual-link adapters for a 2015 MBP and done.
The 13" MBP is by definition lower end and limited, not a fair comparison. Compare instead to a 14"/16" M2 MBP and your 2015 box flat sucks. I know because I use both a loaded 2016 MBP and a loaded M2 MBP every day. The 16" M2 MBP is a joy, while the limitations of the 2016 MBP are very clear (largely the limits imposed by 16 GB RAM) - - and are the reason I bought the new M2 Max MBP.
 

DCBassman

macrumors 6502a
Oct 28, 2021
755
577
West Devon, UK
The 13" MBP is by definition lower end and limited, not a fair comparison. Compare instead to a 14"/16" M2 MBP and your 2015 box flat sucks. I know because I use both a loaded 2016 MBP and a loaded M2 MBP every day. The 16" M2 MBP is a joy, while the limitations of the 2016 MBP are very clear (largely the limits imposed by 16 GB RAM) - - and are the reason I bought the new M2 Max MBP.
And there you've perfectly outlined the point here. Plainly, you have a use/need for a very powerful machine. Most users, on whatever machine or platform, don't need more than 4GB of RAM when doing day-to-day stuff. Therefore, good use can be made of 'obsolete' equipment. If you need the grunt specifically, then you do. So you buy it. If not, then these older machines do the job perfectly.
 
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gpat

macrumors 68000
Mar 1, 2011
1,928
5,340
Italy
I'm not talking about professionals here or the people who need an upgrade for creative/business reasons, but why do the average consumers think that they always need some brand new M2 Powered Pro Max Macbook Pro for lightly surfing the web, writing emails, listening to music, light office work, and playing a few videos? You could get off with a 2012 MBP or even earlier for that, and slightly upgrade it and run a patcher/Linux on it if you wanted to. Or just download the older versions of the programs.

You know, Apple itself is the main culprit to blame here.
They are responsible for the obsolescence of their hardware in a programmed and avoidable way, or actually in more ways than one.
Soldered RAM and SSD was plenty avoidable but they still did it, and they also influenced the rest of the industry to follow their example.
Discontinuing security updates, on the other hand, is their signature behavior in the industry, and it's even more unacceptable.
Windows 10 can be installed and slimmed down on any PC under 20 years of age and you can still think of ways to repurpose them in a pinch, by running current software, while with Mac OS you're in an insecure environment if your Mac stops at Catalina and this year Big Sur will be dropped as well.

Apple just educated their Mac customers to trash perfectly good hardware after a number of years, and that's sad because many of those computers (MBP/As mostly) were the benchmark in the industry when they first came out.
 
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GaryGnu

macrumors member
Nov 6, 2019
69
100
ever ask yourself 'why you wanted it'?
Many times. I have the old Dell which, while I *can* replace the battery, only works plugged in. My other Dell is for work. While I am allowed to use the work machine for my personal stuff, and I do, I also want a personal laptop that's just mine. I like how MacOS lets me answer phone calls and get texts, so I've decided my personal laptop will be a Mac. Then I decided I wanted a new one more than fixing a 10 year old one. Then my old eyes told me that they wanted a larger screen than the 11 or 12 inches of the broken one. So after a few months of thinking, I opted for a new machine.
 
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uffenman

macrumors member
Jun 6, 2022
52
84
I'm not talking about professionals here or the people who need an upgrade for creative/business reasons, but why do the average consumers think that they always need some brand new M2 Powered Pro Max Macbook Pro for lightly surfing the web, writing emails, listening to music, light office work, and playing a few videos? You could get off with a 2012 MBP or even earlier for that, and slightly upgrade it and run a patcher/Linux on it if you wanted to. Or just download the older versions of the programs.

It would save them a lot of money. You don't need 16GB of RAM for that either if you download an optimized browser or programs. You don't need subscriptions to everything if you're a basic user, and it doesn't matter if you spill water on it. You can just replace it, or buy another one on the cheap. Or replace the part for a low price. You don't even need AppleCare for that.

I'm not telling people not to buy a new MacBook, but there are other options to consider before you make the big purchase. I am waiting a while and saving up for mine. I am thinking about the usage and the decisions, and I am going to hold off for a bit, until the price is right, and it calls for me to upgrade. It's annoying when people say a MBP 2011, or Macbook 2009/10 is obsolete because they think you can't put X software onto it, when you probably can. People just consume, and they don't think about what it is they are consuming.

/Rantover (Well, is it a rant, or is it more expressing opinions? Anyway, wanted to out that out there because everyone is always pushed to buy the latest and the greatest all of the time, even when they maybe don't need it at all).
You are really Virtually Insane! In the best way that is! Totally agree with you and I just spent about 4 hours upgrading my late 2013 iMac to the latest version of Monterey using the Core Legacy Patcher....it works so well and this is a computer that I only use for basic file printing, web browsing and email, so it totally fits the bill. I actually always buy my Apple computers with double the standard RAM which I think helps me in the long run because I like to use quality purchases for many many years (my 2004 Audi Allroad turns 20 next year and still screams up hills), so for an extra $200 at time of purchase its a no brainer. With Apple providing legacy software updates, there is no reason to not extend the life of our computers providing the purpose and use is simple. I'd rather take this money and pay off my mortgage quicker!
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,140
7,112
This is a common issue with video editing too. Compressed codecs are VERY difficult and taxing on the computer while editing. But if you use the correct codec editing/intermediate like ProRes, that can save you thousands for buying a new computer.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,604
28,365
forget to upgrade?? I think they're black (and reinforced IMO) for the hard work they get put to.

The first thing I look at when I look at a passing car. I hate tickets.
Whatever the intention here, base model rims are a tip-off that it's a cop car.

I hate tickets as well…there was a time however, long ago. ;)
 
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eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,604
28,365
The 13" MBP is by definition lower end and limited, not a fair comparison. Compare instead to a 14"/16" M2 MBP and your 2015 box flat sucks. I know because I use both a loaded 2016 MBP and a loaded M2 MBP every day. The 16" M2 MBP is a joy, while the limitations of the 2016 MBP are very clear (largely the limits imposed by 16 GB RAM) - - and are the reason I bought the new M2 Max MBP.
The 2015 is not my Mac. It was issued to me in 2019 by the company I work for. So was this M2. The company doesn't consult me on buying decisions for new Macs unfortunately. I just have to make it work. And what I got didn't want to work out of the box with two 30" Cinema Displays.
 

scsskid

macrumors member
Apr 25, 2016
69
33
I think it’s connected to phones being so fast. so people want same performance/snappiness on a computer

my late 2013 15 mbp feels kind of slow compared to my m1pro, but perfectly usable still even for professional web development
 

ToniCH

macrumors 6502a
Oct 23, 2020
737
934
I might be far from average consumer, I imagine. Was a C64-cracker and built my first PC in 80's. Have built, modded, overclocked and repaired countless computers for myself and customers, friends etc. ever since. I bought my last new Macs in 2009 (iMac 27" C2D and i5 models). No, in fact I did buy an Air 13" in 2012. Their longevity have surprised me big time. The Intel era was IMHO great - well, I guess that is a matter of opinion, Intel failed for a long time to make good progress in processing power and that is why they are so long lived. Doesn't make them any worse though as bloatware development was slowed down as well.

I have bought many cheap i7 iMacs, MBPs, Minis etc ever since. I like to upgrade and repair them and many of my close friends and relatives use machines I've made for them.

My daily use is mostly web, email, text and some light (camera->web) photo editing. I rarely do any video and when I do I record 1080P max unless I need some extra detail, when I might do 4K but that is rare. I have found that any i7 Mac I have will easily do what I need as long as it has enough RAM and a SSD or two.

IMO there is no reason for me to buy any new machines as long as I can keep these alive. And as cheap the machines are today I can do it very affordably.

I also install Linux to most of my machines as second or third OS so all the newest SW are available to me anyway if I need them. And I recently ventured into 4.1/5.1 Mac Pro -world as they have become equally cheap too. Most interesting to tinker with and still very capable machines too.

I follow this "old is not necessarily obsolete" -philosophy also with my cars, hifi, phones, small engine stuff etc. etc. too. I feel I get a lot more value out of them than what I pay for the stuff. Thanks for those who don't see this and feel to need to update their perfectly good stuff. Surprisingly some have even appreciated in value over the years, while some have just a good use value vs cost. And I don't finance stuff I buy so I am pretty much debt free except for my mortgage which I still have few years to pay off.
----

I understand that for those who are not technically inclined or not at all interested in updating, upgrading etc. all this must seem too hard and its better to them to buy a new machine every now and then. A good option too - unless Apple again vomits out some lemon like they have done so many times in recent years.
 

MRMSFC

macrumors 6502
Jul 6, 2023
369
379
You’re absolutely correct, but don’t spread it around. Otherwise I won’t be able to buy “outdated” computers for cheap!
 

macsound1

macrumors 6502a
May 17, 2007
835
864
SF Bay Area
I think people's tendencies for upgrading anything - literally anything - is about 1. perceived value and 2. perceived reliability.

Cars, TVs, shovels, roofs, plants, vacations, phones, kitchen appliances, toilets, and of course Computers.

How well is this thing doing it's job
Do I feel like I'd get value out of spending money if I replaced it.

This is generally why people have the same kitchen knives they've has since college - unless they're a great cook
Or the same phone unless they talk on it all day
Or the same rusty shovel, unless they're an avid gardener

People buy new computers when they can't login to their Bank, or Facebook, or open a weird file, or something feels slow. Regular people aren't compelled to buy new computers because of Apple's advertising - nerds are - because we care.
Just like computer nerds can watch HGTV ads about crafty products and not feel compelled to buy a Circuit or new Sewing Machine - we're not the target market.
And non-car people - they don't gush as car ads. They just don't care.

Since we're in this tech nerd circle, we perceive that people are always talking about upgrading their mac or iPhone, but regular people - probably those who you're not friends with - are literally never thinking about what model device they have and have no burning desire about upgrading it.
 

ToniCH

macrumors 6502a
Oct 23, 2020
737
934
Regular people aren't compelled to buy new computers because of Apple's advertising - nerds are - because we care.
Just like computer nerds can watch HGTV ads about crafty products and not feel compelled to buy a Circuit or new Sewing Machine - we're not the target market.
And non-car people - they don't gush as car ads. They just don't care.

Since we're in this tech nerd circle, we perceive that people are always talking about upgrading their mac or iPhone, but regular people - probably those who you're not friends with - are literally never thinking about what model device they have and have no burning desire about upgrading it.
Yeah, except that I am a computer and tech nerd, car guy, diy-guy, avid gardener ;) etc. and I do care - but after all these years I have seen the light and I no longer have any burning desire to "upgrade" my devices, cars, machines etc. to new ones. I can see through the lies of the companies, planned obsolescence, worse quality than before and all that. I don't feel it as an upgrade, quite the vice versa. From advertisers point of view I must be one of the target market but from my pow I am not.

Ps. I did upgrade the kitchen knives I received as a gift when I graduated from high school already 15 years ago, I'm not a weirdo. 😂
 
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ArkSingularity

macrumors 6502a
Mar 5, 2022
928
1,130
I think people's tendencies for upgrading anything - literally anything - is about 1. perceived value and 2. perceived reliability.

Cars, TVs, shovels, roofs, plants, vacations, phones, kitchen appliances, toilets, and of course Computers.

How well is this thing doing it's job
Do I feel like I'd get value out of spending money if I replaced it.

This is generally why people have the same kitchen knives they've has since college - unless they're a great cook
Or the same phone unless they talk on it all day
Or the same rusty shovel, unless they're an avid gardener

People buy new computers when they can't login to their Bank, or Facebook, or open a weird file, or something feels slow. Regular people aren't compelled to buy new computers because of Apple's advertising - nerds are - because we care.
Just like computer nerds can watch HGTV ads about crafty products and not feel compelled to buy a Circuit or new Sewing Machine - we're not the target market.
And non-car people - they don't gush as car ads. They just don't care.

Since we're in this tech nerd circle, we perceive that people are always talking about upgrading their mac or iPhone, but regular people - probably those who you're not friends with - are literally never thinking about what model device they have and have no burning desire about upgrading it.
I actually prefer to have something that is at least one generation out of date. Whenever I have the newest thing, I get bothered by any imperfection or any deficiency in performance. If it's a generation or two older, I feel more freedom to use my device and to work within its limitations because it's not "supposed to be" the latest and greatest (and I don't get quite as irked if it has some signs of use or wear, such as a scratch or two on the body or a battery that isn't at 100% health).

It's just a mental thing for me. I like my devices to be reasonably recent, but I don't necessarily need them to be the shiniest, newest thing that has hit the market. I usually won't purposefully buy stuff that is out of date, but I definitely don't mind when the next generation comes out.
 
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eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,604
28,365
I think people's tendencies for upgrading anything - literally anything - is about 1. perceived value and 2. perceived reliability.

Cars, TVs, shovels, roofs, plants, vacations, phones, kitchen appliances, toilets, and of course Computers.

How well is this thing doing it's job
Do I feel like I'd get value out of spending money if I replaced it.

This is generally why people have the same kitchen knives they've has since college - unless they're a great cook
Or the same phone unless they talk on it all day
Or the same rusty shovel, unless they're an avid gardener

People buy new computers when they can't login to their Bank, or Facebook, or open a weird file, or something feels slow. Regular people aren't compelled to buy new computers because of Apple's advertising - nerds are - because we care.
Just like computer nerds can watch HGTV ads about crafty products and not feel compelled to buy a Circuit or new Sewing Machine - we're not the target market.
And non-car people - they don't gush as car ads. They just don't care.

Since we're in this tech nerd circle, we perceive that people are always talking about upgrading their mac or iPhone, but regular people - probably those who you're not friends with - are literally never thinking about what model device they have and have no burning desire about upgrading it.
Coworker: I'm having a problem with my iPhone.

Me: What iPhone do you have?

Coworker: I dunno, the newest one?
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,604
28,365
You need to look at the positives. Your co-worker knew it was an iPhone.
I had another coworker once, an advertising rep (actually the Sales Manager). Anyway, she wanted me to turn the ReMax logo for a real estate customer so that the ReMax part was centered (the old logo).

I work in print.
 

Rychiar

macrumors 68040
May 16, 2006
3,004
6,430
Waterbury, CT
I'm not talking about professionals here or the people who need an upgrade for creative/business reasons, but why do the average consumers think that they always need some brand new M2 Powered Pro Max Macbook Pro for lightly surfing the web, writing emails, listening to music, light office work, and playing a few videos? You could get off with a 2012 MBP or even earlier for that, and slightly upgrade it and run a patcher/Linux on it if you wanted to. Or just download the older versions of the programs.

It would save them a lot of money. You don't need 16GB of RAM for that either if you download an optimized browser or programs. You don't need subscriptions to everything if you're a basic user, and it doesn't matter if you spill water on it. You can just replace it, or buy another one on the cheap. Or replace the part for a low price. You don't even need AppleCare for that.

I'm not telling people not to buy a new MacBook, but there are other options to consider before you make the big purchase. I am waiting a while and saving up for mine. I am thinking about the usage and the decisions, and I am going to hold off for a bit, until the price is right, and it calls for me to upgrade. It's annoying when people say a MBP 2011, or Macbook 2009/10 is obsolete because they think you can't put X software onto it, when you probably can. People just consume, and they don't think about what it is they are consuming.

/Rantover (Well, is it a rant, or is it more expressing opinions? Anyway, wanted to out that out there because everyone is always pushed to buy the latest and the greatest all of the time, even when they maybe don't need it at all).
Ya kinda do cus they often die. The graphics card in my 2010 imac fried. My parents 2013 imac just had a hard drive crash this spring. I tried to boot it off an external but it would only stay on for 15 mins before resetting itself for some reason… so i sold that for almost $200 broken.. a new m2 Mac mini is 499 on amazon and blazingly fast for a base computer. Why deal with sluggish old tech with security holes that’s could suddenly fail at any moment. not everyone needs a ton of ram but i do personally. I was using a 2017 maxxed out imac for my professional work and im blown away by how much more i i am using m2. The switch to SSDs and faster memory alone is worth the upgrade. My photo processing has never been faster. Intel machines haven’t been impressive with new iterations for many years…
 

xDeadTechx

macrumors member
Oct 7, 2020
32
43
For the most part OP I agree with you, however also need to consider the support life of MacOS that the machine is running, Apple usually does a good job at securing and patching older versions of MacOS however as those OS's age Apple will not be so keen on taking the time and resources away to patch these older versions.

Microsoft had to release certain out of band updates to Windows XP/Vista and 7 to correct a security flaw but it's not guaranteed in the future that they would do it again when the next big intrusion or flaw hits.

Also need to consider the software that runs on top of the OS, Google may cut support to Chrome versions on older MacOS instances thereby making the user go out and finding some other browser that will be supported, same thing for email clients (if used).

Especially now in todays environment people need to make their technology last as long as possible since cost of everything is going up.. but if a user does online banking on their machine or anything to do with finances.. I for one would want to make sure I'm using a device that at least my browser is supported with the latest updates.. if I use a personal financial software like quicken.. I'd like to make sure my OS is patched or still within the wheel house of Apple deploying security updates.
 
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