2017 - A year leaving the Apple walled garden

[widgeteer]

The fact remains that many android users are unable to upgrade because the carrier has yet to roll out the latest version of android for their phones

The first chat is the adoption rate of android for the first 12 months (source). Nougat has a paltry 14%
View attachment 753330

The iOS adoption rate is completely different tale. In just 5 days, 20% of the people upgraded. The chart below is only upto iOS 10, I didn't want to kill myself for a similar one that includes iOS 11, but from my research iOS adoption rate is similar.

View attachment 753331


As you mention this can be a big issue with security and patching vulnabilities. It also can be frustrating when you spend nearly a thousand dollars for a new phone and you have to wait 6 months, or longer for the carrier to roll out Android. Step down from a flagship phone and you may not even see an upgrade. That happened to me, on a phone, they promised, and then didn't roll one out.

It seems Android OEMs are doing better with monthly security patches, at least Samsung is in the states. OS updates are still pathetic. The bottom line with most Android OEMs is if you want the newest Android OS, you need to buy the newest flagship.

 

[Vegastouch]

I read all of your posts in this thread and you’re making assumptions as you don’t know the total compensation package across all employees in these companies and “how much” they give their customers. At any rate if photo space is the deal breaker and you’re okay with google mining your photos, then happy uploading. You don’t think google is giving away photo space because they are altruistic, do you?

Oh i think i have a pretty good idea. I know what my Daughters package is and as mentioned (if you indeed read the other posts) i did work at the Palms. They are all similar but some like The Wynn, Ballagio....to name a couple, pay their people more. And it doesnt matter anyways. The Bellagio by itself has over 9000 employees. This stuff does not matter at all and dont know why you keep saying that. Like all good Apple fans you just cant see that they are greedy.
I can mention other things too. But You and others will argue about that too even though you know nothing about it. Like how my friend owns three stores that fix Apple products and Apple was trying to screw those type of places over by making it harder for them to get parts and making them more expensive, etc.

But i dont hate them, i just think they are really greedy and it shows on many levels but you keep being happy to only get 5GB and gladly pay that billions of dollars company for more space. They need it.
I think DropBox gives you more than that just by tweeting out that you are using their service.

 

[maflynn]

It seems Android OEMs are doing better with monthly security patches, at least Samsung is in the states. OS updates are still pathetic. The bottom line with most Android OEMs is if you want the newest Android OS, you need to buy the newest flagship.

That could be, but if I were to get another android phone, and I may very well in the future, I'd either opt for a vanila version, or one that I can install a custom rom (is that still an option?)

 

[widgeteer]

Are you joking? A billion dollar company is a billion dollar company. It doesn't matter how they got it. But both Apple and the Casinos have huge buildings with thousands of employees,
..actually some casinos have more than Apple does. Steve Wynn owns four or five just in Vegas, as does some others and both have employee cafaterias. They feed their people for free, Apple makes theirs pay.
You brought up comparing tech companies instead of Casinos, if that isn't what youyou m as far as how this matters in this thread, you need to go back and read how it came up.

Average salary of a casino employee ranges from $8 - $17/hour. Average salary of a corporate Apple employee is in excess of $100K per year.

The reason casinos are willing to buy lunch is because it's cheaper than giving their employees a good wage. There's a reason they comp the buffets to the tourists constantly.
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That could be, but if I were to get another android phone, and I may very well in the future, I'd either opt for a vanila version, or one that I can install a custom rom (is that still an option?)

Pixel is your only game in town for latest updates. Yes, some OEM's still allow for custom roms. Some lock their devices down.

 

[I7guy]

Oh i think i have a pretty good idea. I know what my Daughters package is and as mentioned (if you indeed read the other posts) i did work at the Palms. They are all similar but some like The Wynn, Ballagio....to name a couple, pay their people more. And it doesnt matter anyways. The Bellagio by itself has over 9000 employees. This stuff does not matter at all and dont know why you keep saying that. Like all good Apple fans you just cant see that they are greedy.
I can mention other things too. But You and others will argue about that too even though you know nothing about it. Like how my friend owns three stores that fix Apple products and Apple was trying to screw those type of places over by making it harder for them to get parts and making them more expensive, etc.

But i dont hate them, i just think they are really greedy and it shows on many levels but you keep being happy to only get 5GB and gladly pay that billions of dollars company for more space. They need it.
I think DropBox gives you more than that just by tweeting out that you are using their service.

Quite a diversion from what makes a walled garden.

But okay, “you Apple fans” indicates an axe to grind and a person with an axe to grind is not interested in a discussion. you said you’ll believe what you want believe and that goes both ways.

I’m happy with my Apple products as they have served me well, which is why I buy them. I get good value for the dollar. Each has to decide that for themselves.

 

[Michael Goff]

Just to play Devil's Advocate here (as I type from my iPhone), OS upgrades on Android are not the same as OS upgrades on iOS. So that doesn't necessarily bother me. Android can update so much of the OS through app updates and updates to Google Play Services, which will hit every single Android phone at the same time. If they need to add something to their calendar app, they update the app. If Apple wants to do the same, they have to wait for an OS point release. In all honesty, what does Oreo offer that's so much better than Nougat? Native picture in picture is literally all I can think of. But things like split screen that's now native in Android existed on other Android phones long before it became native.

The big problem is the lack of consistent security updates. My wife has an unlocked S8 and it's on the Dec security patch. That bothers me, especially as people who use their phones for work purposes.

What does Oreo offer? Better BT codecs, better battery life, actual color calibration, auto fill API. 8.1 adds BT batter meters on the status bar. Oh, and an automatic repair if systems are screwing up. Or nothing, maybe nothing,

 

[Wildo6882]

What does Oreo offer? Better BT codecs, better battery life, actual color calibration, auto fill API. 8.1 adds BT batter meters on the status bar. Oh, and an automatic repair if systems are screwing up. Or nothing, maybe nothing,

For the average user, I'd argue very little of that really matters. Most of what the end user sees with Oreo is minimal, at best.

We're the minority here.

Most things in Android are not necessarily updated in a full OS update. That was my only argument really. Just that Apple's update and Android's update paths are not one in the same.

 

[Michael Goff]

For the average user, I'd argue very little of that really matters. Most of what the end user sees with Oreo is minimal, at best.

We're the minority here.

Most things in Android are not necessarily updated in a full OS update. That was my only argument really. Just that Apple's update and Android's update paths are not one in the same.

They’d just notice their BT headphones work better, their pictures look more accurate, and it’s easier to log into apps. Oh, and their phone lasts longer.

 

[Vegastouch]

Average salary of a casino employee ranges from $8 - $17/hour. Average salary of a corporate Apple employee is in excess of $100K per year.

The reason casinos are willing to buy lunch is because it's cheaper than giving their employees a good wage. There's a reason they comp the buffets to the tourists constantly.
[doublepost=1520263592][/doublepost]

Pixel is your only game in town for latest updates. Yes, some OEM's still allow for custom roms. Some lock their devices down.

There are MANY that make a lot more than that. Im not just talking about the maids not to mention they also give them medical benefits.
Like i mentioned recently, The Ballagio alone has over 9,000 employees (closer to 9500)and Wynn(who owns the Ballagio) owns more Casinos.
They have A LOT more employees than Apple does at their Headquarters in Cupertino, even counting the new building. And thats just one guy. Several of the other Casinos are owned by the same company.
You can rationalize it all you want. Over 18,000 free meals a day(two meals a day-breakfast, lunch or lunch ,dinner depending on their shift) at one location which again doesnt count his other places is a lot of dough while Apple charges their people.

In anycase, i think this has runs its course. Apple is greedy but the fans wont see it that way. We all know love is blind.

 

[widgeteer]

There are MANY that make a lot more than that. Im not just talking about the maids not to mention they also give them medical benefits.
Like i mentioned recently, The Ballagio alone has over 9,000 employees (closer to 9500)and Wynn(who owns the Ballagio) owns more Casinos.
They have A LOT more employees than Apple does at their Headquarters in Cupertino, even counting the new building. And thats just one guy. Several of the other Casinos are owned by the same company.
You can rationalize it all you want. Over 18,000 free meals a day(two meals a day-breakfast, lunch or lunch ,dinner depending on their shift) at one location which again doesnt count his other places is a lot of dough while Apple charges their people.

In anycase, i think this has runs its course. Apple is greedy but the fans wont see it that way. We all know love is blind.

Average salary of Bellagio employees is around $35k (I'm sure there are people who earn more, but I suggest you look up the definition of the word "average" as it relates to math). You're dreaming if you think whatever free food they offer isn't entirely cheaper than actual good wages. I'm happy they get medical benefits, so do Apple employees.

Also, you can keep the "Apple fanboy" arguments. This post was written on my Pixel 2 XL.

 

[Vegastouch]

Quite a diversion from what makes a walled garden.

But okay, “you Apple fans” indicates an axe to grind and a person with an axe to grind is not interested in a discussion. you said you’ll believe what you want believe and that goes both ways.

I’m happy with my Apple products as they have served me well, which is why I buy them. I get good value for the dollar. Each has to decide that for themselves.

No axe. I do have a iPod and a iPad though i havent used the iPod in years. Just stating some facts. If you choose to not care then ok.
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Average salary of Bellagio employees is around $35k (I'm sure there are people who earn more, but I suggest you look up the definition of the word "average" as it relates to math). You're dreaming if you think whatever free food they offer isn't entirely cheaper than actual good wages. I'm happy they get medical benefits, so do Apple employees.

Also, you can keep the "Apple fanboy" arguments. This post was written on my Pixel 2 XL.

Never called anyone a fanboy, i did say Apple fans and whats wrong with that? Are you not a fan of Apple? I can say am more a fan of Android and doesnt bother me if you say so. Just dont call me a Apple hater because i dont hate them. Just think they are greedy.
And i know what 'average means" thank you. And i know math. Id say if you add up all the employees on both sides, figure in their wages and figure in the free meals, its probably pretty close.

I think $35 is a pretty low estimate for those average casino workers though. I know my Daughter makes more than that and she isnt in a top possition. I also know Google employees make around what Apple employees make and maybe more and they manage to feed their employees too...among other things they do for them that Apple doesnt. Thats not dreaming, that is a fact.

 

[akash.nu]

I can’t believe “feeding employees” has become a company ethics benchmark these days. ‍♂️

 

[Vegastouch]

I can’t believe “feeding employees” has become a company ethics benchmark these days. ‍♂️

I cant believe that a lot of you dont get the point.

 

[bopajuice]

Haha, Lame or no, it's a thing. I've had people who i asked for their number to follow on a business interaction and get a response "You better be blue" with a little laugh. This matters to some people.

I must say I do prefer the Delivered and read indications and the live photo functionality I get when dealing with blues but it's certainly not a showstopper.

I'd like to know what demographic you are talking about. Deciding whether to interact, date, or do business based on the type of phone you use and the color of your text is almost unbelievable. If you had not explained it, and somebody just told me out of the blue I would have thought they were crazy. I'd really like to know what type of people we are talking about.

 

[Michael Goff]

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Google,_Inc./Salary
https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Apple_Computer,_Inc/Salary

Normal software engineers might make more at Apple, but at least Google gives free food. I’m sure that’s what people are concerned about.
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I cant believe that a lot of you dont get the point.

What’s the point of benefits vs paying more cash upfront?

 

[Vegastouch]

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Google,_Inc./Salary
https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Apple_Computer,_Inc/Salary

Normal software engineers might make more at Apple, but at least Google gives free food. I’m sure that’s what people are concerned about.
[doublepost=1520296491][/doublepost]
What’s the point of benefits vs paying more cash upfront?

Those all look pretty comparable to me. Give or take a little here and there.

The main point is one company, they do more for their employees and one of those(among others) is they get to eat free meals at their break times while Apples employees have to pay. I know some want to brush that off as nothing but believe me, they appreciate it and you would to if you had it. I know when I had it it was appreciated as a whole. That's a good perk and one of many for Google people.

This is not rocket science and don't see why it is so difficult to understand.
One company does more for their employees and one is cheap with theirs and cares more about money for themselves. And why wouldn't they? They make you consumers pay for everything no matter how small....like you want more than 5GB of space, pay up! Your want any music, pay up. I've got thousands of songs on Google Music that I picked, all free for me to stream. Even with that, I still use my own stuff in my SD micro card or use Pandora. The latter much less.

If actually like to move on in from this. It gets lost of most of you and whatever you all are comfortable with. I like companies that appreciate their customers and as a worker myself, I greatly appreciate a company that treats you well, that's all.

 

[Michael Goff]

Those all look pretty comparable to me. Give or take a little here and there.

The main point is one company, they do more for their employees and one of those(among others) is they get to eat free meals at their break times while Apples employees have to pay. This is not rocket science and don't see why it is so difficult to understand.
One company does more for their employees and one is cheap with theirs and cares more about money for themselves. And why wouldn't they? They make you consumers pay for everything no matter how small....like you want more than 5GB of space, pay up! Your want any music, pay up. I've got thousands of songs on Google Music that I picked, all free for me to stream. Even with that, I still use my own stuff in my SD micro card or use Pandora. The latter much less.

If actually like to move on in from this. It gets lost of most of you and whatever you all are comfortable with. I like companies that appreciate their customers and as a worker myself, I greatly appreciate a company that treats you well, that's all.

Th main point I’m saying is that Google pays (on average) 9k less to the junior Software Enginner and the gap is higher for the title of software developers. Even if Google spent 5$ per person per day for food? That’s 1.5k$.

 

[Vegastouch]

Th main point I’m saying is that Google pays (on average) 9k less to the junior Software Enginner and the gap is higher for the title of software developers. Even if Google spent 5$ per person per day for food? That’s 1.5k$.

They are getting more than that on their meals. You should see the spreads and on an 8-10 hour day,they eat more than once. For breakfast for instance, anything you can think of, they have and your can have. You want a juice and veggie smoothie cause you are a healthy type, they have those too.. Even Denny's grand slams are more than $5.

 

[Michael Goff]

They are getting more than that on their meals. You should see the spreads and on an 8-10 hour day,they eat more than once. For breakfast for instance, anything you can think of, they have and your can have. You want a juice and veggie smoothie cause you are a healthy type, they have those too.. Even Denny's grand slams are more than $5.

Even double that. The software engineer gets paid (on average) 9k less but at least they saved 4K on food!

 

[widgeteer]

They are getting more than that on their meals. You should see the spreads and on an 8-10 hour day,they eat more than once. For breakfast for instance, anything you can think of, they have and your can have. You want a juice and veggie smoothie cause you are a healthy type, they have those too.. Even Denny's grand slams are more than $5.

Wait...anything they want for breakfast? Like, scrambled eggs!??? My god! That’s, like, rich people food!

 

[Michael Goff]

Wait...anything they want for breakfast? Like, scrambled eggs!??? My god! That’s, like, rich people food!

Another funny thing is that he’s bringing up how much it costs to eat at Denny’s. A restaurant where they have to make money. It wouldn’t cost as much for them to buy food from work because I doubt anyone is making money from their employees in the cafeteria.

 

[Vegastouch]

Wait...anything they want for breakfast? Like, scrambled eggs!??? My god! That’s, like, rich people food!

Lol, well.again, it's unappreciated til you have it. It's convenient and saves you plenty at the grocery store, saves you time.
I'm sure those at Apple would appreciate saving 20 dollars a day by not buying theirs. Not like it's cheap to live up here. A small house around here and near Apple is over a million bucks. Don't believe me? Look it up. Making $100,000 -125,000 up here don't go far.
[doublepost=1520303884][/doublepost]

Even double that. The software engineer gets paid (on average) 9k less but at least they saved 4K on food!

Still more than $10 but Ok, whatever. People enjoy perks that help them and that they don't have to pay for. Sorry you have never experienced that. It's pretty common up here but you think what you want.
Apple is great and everybody worships them. There, happy?
[doublepost=1520304182][/doublepost]

Another funny thing is that he’s bringing up how much it costs to eat at Denny’s. A restaurant where they have to make money. It wouldn’t cost as much for them to buy food from work because I doubt anyone is making money from their employees in the cafeteria.

It was just an example, man you people are crazy. Defend to the end lol, crazy.

 

[Michael Goff]

Lol, well.again, it's unappreciated til you have it. It's convenient and saves you plenty at the grocery store, saves you time.
I'm sure those at Apple would appreciate saving 20 dollars a day by not buying theirs. Not like it's cheap to live up here. A small house around here and near Apple is over a million bucks. Don't believe me? Look it up. Making $100,000 -125,000 up here don't go far.
[doublepost=1520303884][/doublepost]
Still more than $10 but Ok, whatever. People enjoy perks that help them and that they don't have to pay for. Sorry you have never experienced that. It's pretty common up here but you think what you want.
Apple is great and everybody worships them. There, happy?
[doublepost=1520304182][/doublepost]
It was just an example, man you people are crazy. Defend to the end lol, crazy.

You’re crazy for pretending that these small measures are better than just more cash.
[doublepost=1520304731][/doublepost]Also, I’m not saying this because Apple is supposedly great but because CASH MONEY is a much better benefit than “we feed you”. Because, no, they’re not spending more than 10$ per person per day.

 

[bopajuice]

For the average user, I'd argue very little of that really matters. Most of what the end user sees with Oreo is minimal, at best.

We're the minority here.

Most things in Android are not necessarily updated in a full OS update. That was my only argument really. Just that Apple's update and Android's update paths are not one in the same.

Can someone explain to me why infrequent updates to Android products matters and how their updates compare to Apple?

I have read many threads on MR complaining about being forced to update an Apple product, updates slowing older products, throttling batteries, bugs, etc. People wishing they could downgrade to a previous version of Apple's iOS, but are not allowed to.

Is Android affected the same way? Since Android products are not regularly updated, does that leave Android phones open and vulnerable to security issues? Does the software look dated? Or is it more about wanting new features, colors, and a user interface?

 

[meerkat1990]

I'd like to know what demographic you are talking about. Deciding whether to interact, date, or do business based on the type of phone you use and the color of your text is almost unbelievable. If you had not explained it, and somebody just told me out of the blue I would have thought they were crazy. I'd really like to know what type of people we are talking about.

Mostly artistic types, some musicians, etc. As for family it's old, young, doesn't matter. They just don't like seeing the green. It annoys me at time too but mainly because I want to know it's delivered. Sometimes people are kidding when they say it but not really...