2017 Formula 1 Season Thread

[Apple fanboy]

Ok, no offense, but one of you said you were going to US GP and that made me think they were racing here in the states. So whomever that was I'm a little miffed at you right now. I didn't watch qualifying early this morning because I thought it would be on later... dammit.
[doublepost=1507379228][/doublepost]Wait, it was you...

You wouldn't have enjoyed qualifying. Lewis was mighty!
Vettel will start second due to Bottas gear box issues.
Please stop all these stupid penalties!

 

[pachyderm]

You wouldn't have enjoyed qualifying. Lewis was mighty!
Vettel will start second due to Bottas gear box issues.
Please stop all these stupid penalties!

they are ridiculous!

 

[Apple fanboy]

they are ridiculous!

Agree. Just let them get on with racing. Alonso will be starting in Singapore!

 

[CWallace]

Palmer had so many penalties Renault were not sure how many grid places he would be down and had to ask Charlie.

Speaking of Palmer, Sainz will replace him at Renault starting at the USGP to allow Kvyat back into Toro Rosso to keep their main sponsor happy while still allowing Gasly to finish out the season with TR, as well.

 

[BenTrovato]

Palmer had so many penalties Renault were not sure how many grid places he would be down and had to ask Charlie.

Speaking of Palmer, Sainz will replace him at Renault starting at the USGP to allow Kvyat back into Toro Rosso to keep their main sponsor happy while still allowing Gasly to finish out the season with TR, as well.

I love it when they do in season changes. Makes it interesting to see how the drivers adapt to a new team with no preparation. With that said.. it’s a bit sad for Palmer. He didn’t want to give seat but I guess the results weren’t there and now that’s probably the end of his F1 career. I wonder what the buyout he agreed to was worth.

 

[edvj]

Teamwork

 

[pachyderm]

Spoiler

 

[vrDrew]

Suzuka is IMHO one of the best F1 tracks in the world, and easily the best of the non-European races. It is visually a very nice-looking track that apparently is very demanding on the driver.

Racetime was midnight here in the midwestern US, so I stayed up to watch. That's one good thing about F1: The rules and format mean that a contest is pretty much guaranteed to be over in about ninety minutes. Which makes following the sport live as it competes on the other side of the world at least plausible.

Hamilton's start did not look great, but as it turned out, Vettel's engine problems were so egregious that it didn't end up mattering. Lewis slipped ahead well before the first corner and never looked back. Max Verstappen did a great job of keeping the pressure on Hamilton, who reported problems with his rear tires. What could have been a thrilling finish was thwarted, however, when Hamilton got by a couple of back markers and was able to use them to hold off Verstappen long enough to take the checkered flag.

Verstappen is, by a long shot, clearly the coming force among F1 drivers. And its also pretty clear that the hybrid-era rules have created a situation where at least three teams (and six drivers) have a decent shot of winning each race. Lewis Hamilton is not the most exciting driver in F1. But he is the ultimate professional. He literally did not put a wheel wrong the whole weekend. If his car can stay reliable, and the F1 Gods don't turn against him (as they apparently have against Vettel in the last month) - he seems a shoe-in to take his fourth F1 title. Putting him in very exalted company indeed.

 

[AustinIllini]

You have to think Bottas is in some trouble at this point

 

[vrDrew]

You have to think Bottas is in some trouble at this point

You think that Mercedes is going to replace him with Verstappen (or some other up-and-comer)?

From my perspective, Bottas has been a great teammate for Hamilton. And I think it has been very good for Mercedes not to have the intra-team rivalry that spoiled (in some respects) the Hamilton/Rosberg years. Sure: The team ran away with the Constructors championships. But that was more due to an overwhelming technical advantage.

Mercedes have already confirmed that Bottas will be driving for them in 2018. I can't think that Lewis Hamilton was anything other than extremely happy to hear that. Bottas has won two GPs this year, essentially taking points away from Hamilton's rival Vettel. In Japan, Bottas and Hamilton worked together to slow Verstappen by a good 1.5 seconds. A gap that would later prove critical to the race result.

Mercedes signing Verstappen would, in my opinion, be a disaster for the team, for Hamilton, and for F1 generally.

 

[BenTrovato]

You think that Mercedes is going to replace him with Verstappen (or some other up-and-comer)?

From my perspective, Bottas has been a great teammate for Hamilton. And I think it has been very good for Mercedes not to have the intra-team rivalry that spoiled (in some respects) the Hamilton/Rosberg years. Sure: The team ran away with the Constructors championships. But that was more due to an overwhelming technical advantage.

Mercedes have already confirmed that Bottas will be driving for them in 2018. I can't think that Lewis Hamilton was anything other than extremely happy to hear that. Bottas has won two GPs this year, essentially taking points away from Hamilton's rival Vettel. In Japan, Bottas and Hamilton worked together to slow Verstappen by a good 1.5 seconds. A gap that would later prove critical to the race result.

Mercedes signing Verstappen would, in my opinion, be a disaster for the team, for Hamilton, and for F1 generally.

All true for right now but that could drastically change in 2019.

When Ferrari drop Raikkonen and get maybe Ricciardo or Max, Mercedes will be on the back foot. Also project Renault to be a top team by then trying to get one of these guys. Bottas is Toto Wolff’s guy so they definitely want him in the team but he has to improve in 2018 to earn the spot regardless of how well he gets on with Lewie.

I’ll disagree that Max at Mercedes would be a disaster for F1. If we didn’t have Rosberg fighting Hamilton the past 3 years we would have had zero excitement since Brazil 2013.

 

[vrDrew]

I’ll disagree that Max at Mercedes would be a disaster for F1. If we didn’t have Rosberg fighting Hamilton the past 3 years we would have had zero excitement since Brazil 2013.

For all of his considerable skills, and the excitement he brings to the races, Verstappen has had somewhat uneven results so far in 2017. He's been involved in four first-lap crashes, and he still trails Red Bull teammate Ricciardo in the points.

Verstappen and Hamilton on the same team would be a recipe for disaster. Because the absolute last thing Mercedes (or indeed any team) wants would be their two drivers taking each other out racing for the first corner.

Verstappen is still incredibly young. He's incredibly talented. But IMHO he still seems not have acquired the judgment and maturity that pretty much every F1 champion has to have. Skill, bravery, and aggressiveness can win a race against the odds. But inevitably the odds catch up with any driver, and are likely to result in DNFs, crashes, and penalties that will put a Championship out of reach.

Max Verstappen is obviously good for F1 and its fans. And maybe by the 2019 season Verstappen will have developed some of the maturity and judgment he will need to be a Champion.

Whatever your feelings, I think we can all agree that F1 has made great strides towards becoming more competitive and more interesting to watch. Lets hope that one or two more teams can rise to join the ranks of those with a reasonable shot of winning on any given Sunday.

 

[apolloa]

Haven’t finished watching it yet but I’m in lap 36 so pretty obvious what the outcome is..

Have to say such a shame we won’t have a Mercedes and Ferrari battle, but so so so so so so so happy to see a Mercedes and Red Bull battle instead they MAY be using Aston Martin engines next year.. I think certainly by the year after for sure.

Trouble then is, a new engine supplier that’s not been in F1 for ages will no doubt have reliability issues?

Ocon is putting in an impressive performance again... one to watch for sure!
[doublepost=1507477809][/doublepost]

For all of his considerable skills, and the excitement he brings to the races, Verstappen has had somewhat uneven results so far in 2017. He's been involved in four first-lap crashes, and he still trails Red Bull teammate Ricciardo in the points.

Verstappen and Hamilton on the same team would be a recipe for disaster. Because the absolute last thing Mercedes (or indeed any team) wants would be their two drivers taking each other out racing for the first corner.

Verstappen is still incredibly young. He's incredibly talented. But IMHO he still seems not have acquired the judgment and maturity that pretty much every F1 champion has to have. Skill, bravery, and aggressiveness can win a race against the odds. But inevitably the odds catch up with any driver, and are likely to result in DNFs, crashes, and penalties that will put a Championship out of reach.

Max Verstappen is obviously good for F1 and its fans. And maybe by the 2019 season Verstappen will have developed some of the maturity and judgment he will need to be a Champion.

Whatever your feelings, I think we can all agree that F1 has made great strides towards becoming more competitive and more interesting to watch. Lets hope that one or two more teams can rise to join the ranks of those with a reasonable shot of winning on any given Sunday.

Verstappen accidentally took Ricardo out ONCE this entire season, all other race incidents were where HE was taken out by others or his car has developed a fault. If he had none of that he would definitely be in the top three this year overall.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Had to wait on the highlights for this one.

Vettels failure to finish had ended this years title challenge. Shame. I'd have loved it to be closer. I wonder if Ferrari are having to push their engines more to compete which is causing reliability issues?

I think the top drivers will be as you are for 2018.
Then 2019 it's all change. Can't see Kimi still being there. I'd also not be surprised if Lewis called it a day by then. He's already said he has no desire to beat Schumacher's records.

So Bottas (no offence), is not a leading driver. So Mercedes will have to bring in a big name if that happens. I'm thinking Max or maybe Alonso.
But realistically I'm not sure Mercedes will be the car to be in by 2019.
RBR may well get a better engine from Aston but realistically they won't hit the ground running.
Honda may well be competitive by then. It was good to see the McLaren's finish again. Hopefully they've turned a corner.

But the gaps in engine performance will be closer. When it comes to chassis, I don't think Mercedes is even top three, especially when following another car.
So Max will have his pick of the seats. But will wait to see where his best chance of winning races comes from.

Feel sorry for Palmer. He's not particularly done anything wrong. But suspect his F1 career has come to an end.

 

[apolloa]

Yeah we may have a McLaren Renault come back in 2019? But the rules are changing so much every flipping year you don’t know what will happen. I think their are yet more big changes in 2020 or 2021.

I have to say, today the Mercedes have yet again began to show their weaknesses in their car designs...

I do hope we have a three driver and three team battle, make it much more exciting, let’s see what happens I guess?
[doublepost=1507479989][/doublepost]On a side note it’s been great to see Nico with the Sky F1 team all weekend, such great insights from him we wouldn’t know otherwise and I have a lot of respect for him as he won the championship then stopped as he just had his first child born and didn’t want to risk his life.
Although he may come back, you never know.

 

[CWallace]

You have to think Bottas is in some trouble at this point

Niki Lauda is on record saying the problem is not with Bottas, but with the car. It's designed around Lewis and Bottas prefers a different setup. Reminds me of the Schumacher / Barrichello years when the Ferrari's were designed around Michael's driving style and Rubens had to try and adjust. As such, they may keep Bottas as he will have had multiple years to get used to the design.

Trouble then is, a new engine supplier that’s not been in F1 for ages will no doubt have reliability issues?

As part of them becoming the title sponsor, Aston Martin will replace Tag Heuer on the engine badging for the Renault engine. Speculation is Red Bull will also adopt Honda engines in 2019, though not sure how Honda will feel about them being badged as Aston Martins, though "Aston Martin Red Bull Racing Honda" is kind of a mouthful.

As for developing a new power unit for 2021, that could be something Red Bull and Aston Martin do using Building 9, though the rumors persist the VW Group could provide one, as well.

Vettels failure to finish had ended this years title challenge. Shame. I'd have loved it to be closer. I wonder if Ferrari are having to push their engines more to compete which is causing reliability issues?

Sounds logical as they're seeing multiple turbo failures and that would be one of the most-stressed parts of the engine. On the plus side, I can now just run the races in the background since Lewis is guaranteed the WDC now and Mercedes has the WCC locked-up. Only real battle now might be whether RBR passes Ferrari to claim #2 in the WCC.

 

[randian]

Only real battle now might be whether RBR passes Ferrari to claim #2 in the WCC.

Bottas is now within 13 points of Vettel. He probably won't beat Vettel, but it's clearly possible, especially if Ferrari continues its unreliable streak.

 

[Crazy Badger]

Lewis just needs to finish the remainder of the races and the title is his. Whilst it was good to feel like things a little closer between Mercedes and Ferarri at the beginning of the year, I think we were lured into believeing they were when the reality was that Mercedes still haave a much stronger package.

They still need some major changes to shake things up and bring back some form of on track racing, as it's not come back this year. I bet there's been more laps driven than on track passes, and most of those have been helped by DRS. Watching someone sail past because their wing is wide open is hardly motor racing.

 

[CWallace]

Bottas is now within 13 points of Vettel. He probably won't beat Vettel, but it's clearly possible, especially if Ferrari continues its unreliable streak.

Well there is no way Mercedes can lose the WCC now and RBR is 92 points behind Ferrari so even with RBR consistently finishing two cars in the points to Ferrari's one, I expect RBR are too far back (mainly do to their own 10 team DNFs compared to Ferrari's 5).

 

[apolloa]

Niki Lauda is on record saying the problem is not with Bottas, but with the car. It's designed around Lewis and Bottas prefers a different setup. Reminds me of the Schumacher / Barrichello years when the Ferrari's were designed around Michael's driving style and Rubens had to try and adjust. As such, they may keep Bottas as he will have had multiple years to get used to the design.




As part of them becoming the title sponsor, Aston Martin will replace Tag Heuer on the engine badging for the Renault engine. Speculation is Red Bull will also adopt Honda engines in 2019, though not sure how Honda will feel about them being badged as Aston Martins, though "Aston Martin Red Bull Racing Honda" is kind of a mouthful.

As for developing a new power unit for 2021, that could be something Red Bull and Aston Martin do using Building 9, though the rumors persist the VW Group could provide one, as well.




Sounds logical as they're seeing multiple turbo failures and that would be one of the most-stressed parts of the engine. On the plus side, I can now just run the races in the background since Lewis is guaranteed the WDC now and Mercedes has the WCC locked-up. Only real battle now might be whether RBR passes Ferrari to claim #2 in the WCC.

It’ll be an Aston engine... much rather then then VW! They’d have to test it for emissions cheating before every race!

 

[CWallace]

I think the biggest hindrance to RBR and AM going it themselves to build an engine will be the costs. Mercedes is rumored to have spent what, a half billion, designing the current formula engine? Plus how many more scores of millions updating it over the years. One of the reasons they charge so damn much to lease them to other teams.

Beyond the cost, there is also the experience factor. AM designed their own engines back in the day, but their modern versions either are based on Ford designs (V12) or draw from Jaguar-Ford designs (V8). Cosworth designed the engine for the Valkyrie and Cosworth is said to be seriously entertaining putting in a design for the 2021 rules, as well. So could the two of them pull off a powerful and reliable Formula One Power Unit, especially having to "clean-sheet" it lest they risk legal action from Renault and/or Honda if either feel such a design infringes on their Intellectual Property (assuming they're even allowed to examine the engines - they may be delivered as sealed units).

 

[Glideslope]

Yeah we may have a McLaren Renault come back in 2019? But the rules are changing so much every flipping year you don’t know what will happen. I think their are yet more big changes in 2020 or 2021.

I have to say, today the Mercedes have yet again began to show their weaknesses in their car designs...

I do hope we have a three driver and three team battle, make it much more exciting, let’s see what happens I guess?
[doublepost=1507479989][/doublepost]On a side note it’s been great to see Nico with the Sky F1 team all weekend, such great insights from him we wouldn’t know otherwise and I have a lot of respect for him as he won the championship then stopped as he just had his first child born and didn’t want to risk his life.
Although he may come back, you never know.

With the new ownership group sending Bernie off the the Assylum for good, rules will begin to stabilize.
[doublepost=1508451844][/doublepost]

Niki Lauda is on record saying the problem is not with Bottas, but with the car. It's designed around Lewis and Bottas prefers a different setup. Reminds me of the Schumacher / Barrichello years when the Ferrari's were designed around Michael's driving style and Rubens had to try and adjust. As such, they may keep Bottas as he will have had multiple years to get used to the design.

Also Vettel's Red Bull not being a good fit for Webber.

 

[apolloa]

With the new ownership group sending Bernie off the the Assylum for good, rules will begin to stabilize.
[doublepost=1508451844][/doublepost]

Also Vettel's Red Bull not being a good fit for Webber.

Hahaha, I saw him being interview at GoodWood by Mark Weber, and he really did come across as a dithering man.. I really have no idea what decisions he could do anymore in F1? Like Rupert Murdoch, they really need to realise when they are passed it, nature is nature and their comes a time you should retire..

However, as for the rules, next year are some changes and then I’ve heard major new rules will come in during the 2020 season, so the merry go round isn’t finished yet.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

After next year it doesn’t matter to me. F1 disappears off British television at the end of 2018 unless you have Sky so it’ll be pretty much dead here thereafter. I’m hoping the end to this season delivers some excitement and 2018 gives us a brilliant final season!

 

[Apple fanboy]

After next year it doesn’t matter to me. F1 disappears off British television at the end of 2018 unless you have Sky so it’ll be pretty much dead here thereafter. I’m hoping the end to this season delivers some excitement and 2018 gives us a brilliant final season!

Now TV pass is my current thinking.