2018 i9 MacBook Pro throttling discussion [merged]

[Hitrate]

In my mind all this talk about fan curves is like politics talk to try and linger around the actual issue, rather than face the reality and call a spade a spade. No way should users be/feel/eventually need to run their computers at high fan speeds, that's intolerable especially to the thousands that rely on having the computer in the same room as their microphone(s) and besides, the issue is not about fan curves but poor design execution for those processors as has already been documented and described, so there really is no fooling us at this point.

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

In my mind all this talk about fan curves is like politics talk to try and linger around the actual issue, rather than face the reality and call a spade a spade. No way should users be/feel/eventually need to run their computers at high fan speeds, that's intolerable especially to the thousands that rely on having the computer in the same room as their microphone(s) and besides, the issue is not about fan curves but poor design execution for those processors as has already been documented and described, so there really is no fooling us at this point.

Ah yes, I agree with your points but at the same time we’re noticing that even at load our 15 inch 2018 MacBooks aren’t ramping up their fans when they are supposed to. So this isn’t about “Apple needing to blast the fans at max when using the new MacBooks” this is about having the fans ramp up when they are SUPPOSED to. Big difference.

Now I’m not saying that there isn’t an issue, don’t get me wrong. There is and the Chassis and even with fan curve updates can only help so much. But at least we could tell something at first instance is wrong when you’re running a test and the other computers are ramping up their fans and your supposedly hotter MAcs are still quiet.

 

[pkouame]

You have to admit that changing from a computer-focused company to one that focuses on mobile/tablet 1st mindset did play some part in all of this. I doubt that something like this could happen to a company whose profits stems primarily from selling computers like Apple did in the late 90s-early '00s. That is why their computers were so reliable back then, Apple had to make them great otherwise their financials would suffer. The same isn't true today. Even if the Mac sales declines, deep down, Apple knows, if they prevent their primary cash cow, the iPhone/iPad, from exhibiting these types of problems, they will be fine. That is why I think when the iPhone 4 "antenna-gate" issue became headline news, Apple was front and center and on top of it with a press event and everything. They couldn't let the antenna-gate situation be remedied merely through a press release.

I don't know. I might have become cynical with my analysis, but that is what I think.

Yes - the entire line of laptop and desktop computers is simply suffering from neglect. They all but silently killed off the macPro and still don't have the guts to admit it. The same is happening with laptops that aren't iPad's with a keyboard.

I'm ok with new vision and strategy, but fess up to it - don't pretend to cater to enthusiasts when you don't care about them (since it actually no longer affects the bottom line).
The Apple ecosystem is now officially: iMusic + iPhone + iPad + iWatch + HomePod.

The Macs are still around just as a nod and homage to its (brilliant) Jobesian/Wozniac past - pure marketing value. The "Mac" label is priceless - doesn't matter if it's really backed up by rad hardware or not.

Watch them blame Intel and Adobe for their systemic failures.

 

[anshuvorty]

The Macs are still around just as a nod and homage to its (brilliant) Jobesian/Wozniac past - pure marketing value. The "Mac" label is priceless - doesn't matter if it's really backed up by rad hardware or not.

After watching the collab video between MKBHD and iJustine where they unbox an unopened iBook G3, you start to understand how much innovation, creativity, and daring the Mac line of products used to have: just look at the wonderful colors the iBook G3 had, the iMacs had, and the translucent chassis. Later on, they introduced the Magsafe connector, a connector that hasn't yet or since seen an equal or ever will. You are completely right, just like how Apple kept the iPod line of products going for a while (even now still does, just no marketing behind them), the same is slowly happening to the Mac. It will take alot longer for the Mac line to die off just because of the heritage of the Mac (it was Apple's 1st product after all), but it is on a very, very, very slow decline.

TL;DR: I agree.

 

[fate0311]

Worth reading:

https://www.computerworld.com/artic...hat-macbook-pro-core-i9-throttling-story.html

 

[hajime]

Do you want to be with a partner who performs well the entire night or only for a few seconds? Same thing for the CPU.

 

[anshuvorty]

Worth reading:

https://www.computerworld.com/artic...hat-macbook-pro-core-i9-throttling-story.html

Nice find.

 

[fate0311]

Do you want to be with a partner who performs well the entire night or only for a few seconds? Same thing for the CPU.

I would say < and or = 20min is the sweet spot.

 

[anshuvorty]

I would say < and or = 20min is the sweet spot.

 

[KarmaRocket]

Worth reading:

https://www.computerworld.com/artic...hat-macbook-pro-core-i9-throttling-story.html

interesting, but we have some hard info from actual users stress testing the CPU. Even with fan control you're still getting some throttling. Though not as bad as without it. A lot of these throttling claims have been backed up with using real apps. Not just test suites.

A couple of things here.

There probably won't be any "software optimization." I've written this a few times on this board. Software optimization for MacOS is being handled by Grand Central. Basically it allows OS X and software on OS X to take advantage as many core or threads as possible. It manages all of this for the developers as well. This is something Apple implemented in OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard. The reason why Apple introduced this important feature so they don't have to optimize code within the OS for numerous cores or threads. Which is why we didn't have to see "software optimization" when Apple went from dual core to quad core and introduced multi core Mac Pros and the iMac Pro.

Cinebench was a little vague with what they said they needed to optimize. I don't think it has much to do with the new hexacore CPU's.

You can make a claim Adobe needs some software optimization. Amongst creatives, it's known that Adobe apps run faster and better on Windows (especially if it's running an NVidia card). Adobe doesn't take advantage of OpenCL that well on AMD GPU's. While FCPX does. So that's where the performance discrepancy is.

I really do hope there is some magic way Apple can fix this, but I'm not sure that will be a reality. I'd like to see more real world tests and see how much throttling I can live with. But it seems I'll be looking at some Windows options as well.

 

[Cervontez]

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple...e-performance-with-a-few-clicks.317552.0.html

Good read from a credible source. There may be a software update to help

 

[Steve.P.JobsFan]

... Also if anybody has any workloads they want to walk me through let me know, I'm still awake for another hour or so.
[doublepost=1531891875][/doublepost]

The fans are okay at the maximum the normal fan curve goes to (5200ish RPM on the faster one), but are loud at MAX.

Just as a heads up to everyone maxing out their fans, I would use iStat Pro to manually set the fans on my 2017 MBP to max RPM whenever I was doing some video encoding or playing Rocket League at college last semester. I did it maybe 5 or 6 times, for about 5-10 minutes each time.

I took my computer in to get the keyboard replaced in April and they also found out that one of the internal fans had completely died. It would not spin up whatsoever.

Granted, I am one statistic out of millions of MacBooks, but still...

On topic post: Between the keyboards and the i9 throttling because Apple is more obsessed with "thin and light" than "reliable and quality", I think I'm done with them for computers. Thanks Tim for shoving the resale value of my '17 MBP off a cliff, too!

 

[jeremiah256]

Worth reading:

https://www.computerworld.com/artic...hat-macbook-pro-core-i9-throttling-story.html

The article, unfortunately, does not start out neutrally, denigrating the claims to hysterics and overblown. I find this offensive when they, supposedly a professional computer site, with the same access to the MacBooks in question, and undoubtedly more resources than most YouTube or MacRumors reviewers, did not reveal even a hint of an issue with throttling. This is Computer World and if anyone should know if these claims are true or not, they should, and already have insight to provide from their own in depth reviews.

So, until they put in the same work that even our fellow MacRumors posters have, who have spent their own hard earned cash and personal time to post tests after tests, I'm going to log this article into the pile labeled, "Butt Hurt" for them being scooped.

 

[Feenician]

I’m really risking incurring the ire of the mods copying this to a 3rd thread but read this

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple...e-performance-with-a-few-clicks.317552.0.html

tl;dr version: You can fix it with a $6 utility while you wait on Apple to do it in the OS.

 

[bobbie424242]

While this forum is loosing sleep over this issue, execs at Apple's HQ sure aren't:

- Tim is busy elaborating some grand political plan to save the US
- Craig is in awe contemplating its own Memoji and these of his collegues
- Jony is locked in his white room since...forever
- Eddy listens to the latest Drake hit 24/24

 

[jeremiah256]

Is anybody having problems with their machine discharging under load and connected to power?

I'm having to run two adapters (both 87W) for my battery to charge.

This can't be right.

Insert Padme, "Your breaking my heart!" gif.

Evidence keep mounting that the i9 is too beastly for the current MBP chassis if you expect the advertised performance under load. It seems at this current point in time, while you can have a portable, gaming form factor solution that works with the i9, you can't have a very mobile, light solution.

For example:

 

[vaugha]

While this forum is loosing sleep over this issue, execs at Apple's HQ sure aren't:

- Tim is busy elaborating some grand political plan to save the US
- Craig is in awe contemplating its own Memoji and these of his collegues
- Jony is locked in his white room since...forever
- Eddy listens to the latest Drake hit 24/24

Haha. Well put.

 

[Mockletoy]

Yes - the entire line of laptop and desktop computers is simply suffering from neglect. They all but silently killed off the macPro and still don't have the guts to admit it. The same is happening with laptops that aren't iPad's with a keyboard.

I'm ok with new vision and strategy, but fess up to it - don't pretend to cater to enthusiasts when you don't care about them (since it actually no longer affects the bottom line).
The Apple ecosystem is now officially: iMusic + iPhone + iPad + iWatch + HomePod.

The Macs are still around just as a nod and homage to its (brilliant) Jobesian/Wozniac past - pure marketing value. The "Mac" label is priceless - doesn't matter if it's really backed up by rad hardware or not.

Watch them blame Intel and Adobe for their systemic failures.

Not just them. The people Apple is ripping off are actively defending them. They are blaming Intel, or Adobe, or each other for using it wrong or having unrealistic expectations — as if expecting a 2.9Ghz processor to run at 2.9Ghz is unrealistic?

I don’t get it. I said in another thread earlier it’s like watching someone in an abusive relationship defend and make excuses for their abuser.

 

[Feenician]

Not just them. The people Apple is ripping off are actively defending them. They are blaming Intel, or Adobe, or each other for using it wrong or having unrealistic expectations — as if expecting a 2.9Ghz processor to run at 2.9Ghz is unrealistic?

Read my post a couple up.

 

[kotlos]

I’m really risking incurring the ire of the mods copying this to a 3rd thread but read this

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple...e-performance-with-a-few-clicks.317552.0.html

tl;dr version: You can fix it with a $6 utility while you wait on Apple to do it in the OS.

Anyone willing to try this out? The performance boost and the stability look great...

 

[hajime]

The Apple guy I talked to in the store just said that people are having bad throttling issues with the i9 because the test programs they used are all not updated. This is BS. I mentioned about good performance when David put the machine in a fridge. He had nothing to say.

Same thing when I talked about keyboard issues of the 2017. Except one employee, several other employees in the stores said they were not aware of the issue.

They always play dumb.

 

[Mockletoy]

Read my post a couple up.

To me, that’s almost worse. It’s outrageous that Apple would ship these computers out the door in the state they went out the door in.

It’s ... just not okay. If the fix is a real fix, and if it’s really something so simple and easy — and it may well be — then what does that say about the level of care Apple put into these machines?

$3,000+ machines like this, shipping to customers so crippled, and no one at Apple noticed?

That’s mind-blowing to me. How does that happen? Who will be fired?

 

[Feenician]

To me, that’s almost worse. It’s outrageous that Apple would ship these computers out the door in the state they went out the door in.

It’s ... just not okay. If the fix is a real fix, and if it’s really something so simple and easy — and it may well be — then what does that say about the level of care Apple put into these machines?

$3,000+ machine likes this, shipping to customers so crippled, and no one at Apple noticed?

That’s mind-blowing to me. How does that happen? Who will be fired?

Oh I agree it’s bad from that perspective. Don’t get me wrong. Someone should have their ass handed to them.

It’s very good news for those who bought or were thinking of buying these machines though.

 

[maflynn]

It’s outrageous that Apple would ship these computers out the door in the state they went out the door in.

I think this is what has many of us so angry. What makes it worse, is that we just came off the defective keyboard scandal and this new mac that was promised to deliver some great performance is running wicked hot.

 

[ksj1]

In my mind all this talk about fan curves is like politics talk to try and linger around the actual issue, rather than face the reality and call a spade a spade. No way should users be/feel/eventually need to run their computers at high fan speeds, that's intolerable especially to the thousands that rely on having the computer in the same room as their microphone(s) and besides, the issue is not about fan curves but poor design execution for those processors as has already been documented and described, so there really is no fooling us at this point.

I'm missing something on this one. Do you use your laptop under load while recording? And do you really think you are going to get full speed performance from any cpu in a laptop, or any PC, and not have the fans going at full blast?