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2022 Formula 1 Season thread

Akrapovic said:
So having worked with race control in a few series, I have to correct a few things here. (Sorry, I'm not being a dick, but there's a LOT of misconceptions and misinformation being posted on Twitter, which has made is hard for fans to see what actually happened - I'm not aiming this at you, so I apologise if it seems I am! Also, I used to do emergency response - so procedures in these situations are kinda my thing).

Firstly Suzuka management having nothing do with recovery vehicle deployment. This is controlled by the Race Director - which today was Eduardo Fraitis, who has successfully run the Le Mans and WEC race controls for decades now. He was parachuted in after last years mess with Michael Masi. Eduardo deployed the safety vehicle.

Secondly, we see vehicles on the circuit every week at every circuit. Look back at Monza and recovery of Danniel Riccardos car. That went completely fine under safety car conditions. In fact, how would you possibly recover a car if you can't do it under safety car? You'd need to red flag every every time a car went off. You can't do that.

So what was the difference between Suzuka and Monza? And why was today more dangerous? The answer was Gasly broke the rules. To work out why this was a problem we need to look at the order of events.

1 - The crash happens. Sainz goes off, debris comes on track, Gasly collects the advertising board and damages the front wing.
2 - Safety car is deployed before the end of the lap. The circuit is now neutralised and cars have to slow.
3 - The recovery vehicle is sent onto the track with the marshals
4 - Gasly pits to repair the damage. As this is a nose replacement, it's a long stop
5 - The field bunches behind the safety car and slows
6 - Gasly exits the pits, but has a large gap to the field
7 - The field slows and passes the accident zone - the zone is covered by double waved yellow flags and the field is informed to stay to the right hand side of the track by the race director
8 - As Gasly is approaching the accident zone, the red flag flies - the light box he is passing goes red, and the red light appears on his dashboard
9 - Gasly, at racing speed, passes the accident zone whilst trying to catch field, and is surprised by the recovery vehicle.

So the first problem is Gasly has pitted, which has left him behind the pack. This isn't a major issue, but he has to close the gap. The second issue is that Gasly doesn't appear to have been informed of by his team of the race directors instructions to stay to the right hand side of the track due to the vehicle being on the track. The fourth problem is that Gasly has forgotten about the accident zone - which is remarkable, because he was involved in it. The fifth problem is that Gasly ignored the double waved yellow flag entering the zone - double waved yellow flags mean slow down and be prepared to stop. Gasly did not slow down. And the sixth and final problem is Gasly did not see or react to the red flag until he was well beyond the accident zone.

Whilst it does appear at a glance to be the race director who made a mistake, they didn't. They did the same thing as every race and mobilised recovery as soon as the field was neutralised. The problem is Gasly ignored the track status. He was doing 250kmh (155 mph) through the accident zone, without lifting for a yellow. That, is absolutely unacceptable, and why Gasly has been given a 20 second penalty.

There is also a few people asking how/what do other series do to cope with this - the answer is the exact same as F1 did today. The difference is how these series police the drivers. WEC, Creventic and NLS have had VSC for years before F1, and even include slow zones where cars are required to slow between marshal posts. If a driver violates a yellow flag in the way Gasly did today they are often disqualified, and in more extreme cases, have their racing license removed and are forced to reapply for it (see: NLS, N24).

Race control did nothing wrong. Gasly was at fault for not obeying the yellow and red flag status.
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I appreciate you’re not aiming it at me. I’m aware of the circumstances and procedures already but thanks for putting it into so much detail.
 
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Feel sorry for Yuki at his home GP not getting much of a race. Hollow victory for Max really, but Ferrari have been a total let down this year having a car that could compete and wasting it through strategy and pit stop mistakes, especially when it became obvious Mercedes really screwed up their design.
But that start shows the plums an F1 driver has! Can't see but I'm gonna do 100 down here.. mad.

Still tomorrow and next week could be explosive for F1.
 
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The-Real-Deal82 said:
I don’t think he’s anywhere near as good as Ralf to be brutally honest. Ralf was fast and full of promise in his first few years and was probably weakened by 2 huge accidents at Williams and Toyota. Mick doesn’t strike me as having the ruthless instinct his father had on the track.
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Agreed.

If Ralf had had better cars who knows? He won in a Williams that wasn't that good, so did Montoya for that matter.
Ralf probably should have won with Jordan at Spa in 98 but he followed team orders... God bless him for that.
 
pachyderm said:
Agreed.

If Ralf had had better cars who knows? He won in a Williams that wasn't that good, so did Montoya for that matter.
Ralf probably should have won with Jordan at Spa in 98 but he followed team orders... God bless him for that.
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I remember watching that race and glad he did. Those conditions required restraint to bring home the points and I think Damon was right to ask Eddie to back him off. Compare the torrential rain of Spa ‘98 and how exciting that race was compared to yesterdays Suzuka. How times have changed.
 
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Leclerc is my favorite driver, but I actually want Merc to beat Ferrari and come 2nd in the WCC this year.

Those dodos sitting in Ferrari HQ need a really hard slap across the face. That's the only thing that can shake them awake for 2023 and possibly recover from this absolute circus of a season.
 
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Well, first off Mercedes should be reprimanded for its public allegations against Aston Martin, they were to be in 'procedural' breach, basically didn't fill a form out correctly. Hardly the crime Toto was promoting.

EDIT: ignore my comment above as they are saying it was procedural breaches of the rules, what ever that means? Need make info really.


Red Bull is different, a less than 5% overspend, we need to really know how much that is. Although again I doubt it was the 12 million I believe Toto was claiming or so I heard.

Still rules are rules and they have been found guilty, I suspect they'll just fine them. Not remove points and allow Mercedes to win last year as some would want.
But T T T Red Bull, not very good at all, they need some wrapped knuckles.
 
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Apple fanboy said:
So RBR did overspend! Well even if it’s only minor the punishment needs to be significant.
Otherwise all the teams that can afford it will be doing it.
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Horner looks rather stupid now considering his comments last week. His claims other team were making defamatory comments about any overspend at all hasn’t aged well lol. I agree though, both teams need to face a significant punishment otherwise a precedent won’t be set. Ross Brawn did say a serious breach would have resulted in them losing the championship but it looks like it’s less than 5% in Red Bull’s case.
 
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The-Real-Deal82 said:
Horner looks rather stupid now considering his comments last week. His claims other team were making defamatory comments about any overspend at all hasn’t aged well lol. I agree though, both teams need to face a significant punishment otherwise a precedent won’t be set. Ross Brawn did say a serious breach would have resulted in them losing the championship but it looks like it’s less than 5% in Red Bull’s case.
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He does a bit. Will be interesting to see what punishment is given. I doubt points will be deducted. But a reduction in wind tunnel time or a cap for next year would send a message for sure.
 
Pezimak said:
Well, first off Mercedes should be reprimanded for its public allegations against Aston Martin, they were to be in 'procedural' breach, basically didn't fill a form out correctly. Hardly the crime Toto was promoting.

Red Bull is different, a less than 5% overspend, we need to really know how much that is. Although again I doubt it was the 12 million I believe Toto was claiming or so I heard.

Still rules are rules and they have been found guilty, I suspect they'll just fine them. Not remove points and allow Mercedes to win last year as some would want.
But T T T Red Bull, not very good at all, they need some wrapped knuckles.
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I’ve seen quite a few of the interviews Toto gave on this matter and I haven’t seen him say anything defamatory whatsoever. All I’ve seen him say is that the teams need a thorough investigation which is reasonable. I don’t think he’s ever put a figure on the overspend either as he wouldn’t know.

If the overspend is 5% or around that, it’s roughly £7.5m which is not exactly a drop in the ocean. That’s the wages of around 50 engineers. Just giving them a small fine won’t cut it on this instance. We might see a significant constructors points deduction on top of a fine.
 
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The-Real-Deal82 said:
I’ve seen quite a few of the interviews Toto gave on this matter and I haven’t seen him say anything defamatory whatsoever. All I’ve seen him say is that the teams need a thorough investigation which is reasonable. I don’t think he’s ever put a figure on the overspend either as he wouldn’t know.

If the overspend is 5% or around that, it’s roughly £7.5m which is not exactly a drop in the ocean. That’s the wages of around 50 engineers. Just giving them a small fine won’t cut it on this instance.
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I heard or read it somewhere. But I edited my post, info seems a little cluttered at the moment as Aston has procedural breaches of the rules? So I take it back about Toto and Aston.

We need more info really, but yeah it needs a suitable punishment to put the teams off trying it on, not points removal, but something that impacts them next season like wind tunnel time etc. if it was 10% then I think taking the title off them would be sufficient.
So much for Horner's legal threats.
 
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Unless you exclude RBR from the 2021 or 2022 Championship (which I do not support), docking them Constructor Championship points isn't going to make much a difference considering they are so far ahead of Ferrari both this year and last year.

While the 5% figure is equivalent to USD 7.25 million, a Dutch newspaper says the actual overspend was less than USD 2 million and a fair bit of it was the Free Lunch program RBR offers employees.

I'd like to see the FIA fine RBR five times what they spent as a disincentive for teams to breach the Cost Cap. And if you really want to keep the teams honest going forward, take that fine and give an equal cut to each of the other nine teams. :p
 
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CWallace said:
Unless you exclude RBR from the 2021 or 2022 Championship (which I do not support), docking them Constructor Championship points isn't going to make much a difference considering they are so far ahead of Ferrari both this year and last year.

While the 5% figure is equivalent to USD 7.25 million, a Dutch newspaper says the actual overspend was less than USD 2 million and a fair bit of it was the Free Lunch program RBR offers employees.

I'd like to see the FIA fine RBR five times what they spent as a disincentive for teams to breach the Cost Cap. And if you really want to keep the teams honest going forward, take that fine and give an equal cut to each of the other nine teams. :p
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Its Milton Keynes, you'd need a free lunch program considering where they are. Too many employees for a van delivering stale sandwiches and wet Luke warm sausage rolls, Ikea parking is crazy for their cheap plastic hotdogs, and for the rest its most fast food...

Seriously though, I'm not buying that its the free lunch program. It is a choice to do that, and still spend on all the other things as well.

Still think it is all blown out of proportion, accounting mistakes, interpretation of rules happen all the time anywhere in any industry. Dare I say HS2, or Cross Rail, now those are over budget ;)

What is a way more serious situation is how some teams got the information before the investigation was finished and published.
 
cyb3rdud3 said:
Its Milton Keynes, you'd need a free lunch program considering where they are. Too many employees for a van delivering stale sandwiches and wet Luke warm sausage rolls, Ikea parking is crazy for their cheap plastic hotdogs, and for the rest its most fast food...

Seriously though, I'm not buying that its the free lunch program. It is a choice to do that, and still spend on all the other things as well.

Still think it is all blown out of proportion, accounting mistakes, interpretation of rules happen all the time anywhere in any industry. Dare I say HS2, or Cross Rail, now those are over budget ;)

What is a way more serious situation is how some teams got the information before the investigation was finished and published.
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I’ve been to that industrial estate a few times. It’s not anymore isolated than where I work. I just bring my lunch in from home exchange day. Save a fortune that way.
If the free lunch program put them millions over budget, what are they serving? Lobster?
 
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Yeah, Max is a 1-time WDC and Lewis a 8-time WDC in my books. Getting FIA assistance breaking their own rules which gave Max the title is one thing, but cheating is simply too much.

Funny that Horner was calling Toto a "sore loser" by accusing Red Bull of cheating, when in fact they were cheating.
 
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Pezimak said:
I heard or read it somewhere. But I edited my post, info seems a little cluttered at the moment as Aston has procedural breaches of the rules? So I take it back about Toto and Aston.

We need more info really, but yeah it needs a suitable punishment to put the teams off trying it on, not points removal, but something that impacts them next season like wind tunnel time etc. if it was 10% then I think taking the title off them would be sufficient.
So much for Horner's legal threats.
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F1 managing director Ross Brawn in 2019: ‘breach financial rules, lose your championship’

So Red Bull and Max should be stripped from the 2021 championship. But Ross Brawn won't do what he said back in 2019 I predict.

If Red Bull only gets a fine for this, then I guess everybody should overspend for next season as many teams have plenty of money to pay these fines.
 
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