2022 Formula 1 Season thread

[The-Real-Deal82]

I’ve been to that industrial estate a few times. It’s not anymore isolated than where I work. I just bring my lunch in from home exchange day. Save a fortune that way.
If the free lunch program put them millions over budget, what are they serving? Lobster?

Same for me, I work on an isolated industrial estate where the only food if you don’t take your own is a McDonald’s 3 miles away or a Co-op 2 miles in the other direction. I’d love my company to give £7.5m a year for us to eat lol.

Maybe next year Red Bull and Aston can have their budget absolutely fixed but the other teams will be allowed to overspend by 5%. After reading quite a few comments by fans of Red Bull I am pretty sure they’d be fine with that.

 

[Zest28]

Honestly, every other team has to pay for catering and sick leave too, it is not something exclusive that only Red Bull has to pay for. Red Bull should have simply spend less money on other items such as R&D to stay within budget.

But this ruling is going to be important. If Red Bull only gets a fine, then the budget cap is effectively a budget tax. Just overspend and just pay a tax / fine later.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Yeah, Max is a 1-time WDC and Lewis a 8-time WDC in my books. Getting FIA assistance breaking their own rules which gave Max the title is one thing, but cheating is simply too much.

Funny that Horner was calling Toto a "sore loser" by accusing Red Bull of cheating, when in fact they were cheating.

Oh hear we go again, true colours coming out once more...

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I’ve been to that industrial estate a few times. It’s not anymore isolated than where I work. I just bring my lunch in from home exchange day. Save a fortune that way.
If the free lunch program put them millions over budget, what are they serving? Lobster?

Same for me, I work on an isolated industrial estate where the only food if you don’t take your own is a McDonald’s 3 miles away or a Co-op 2 miles in the other direction. I’d love my company to give £7.5m a year for us to eat lol.

Maybe next year Red Bull and Aston can have their budget absolutely fixed but the other teams will be allowed to overspend by 5%. After reading quite a few comments by fans of Red Bull I am pretty sure they’d be fine with that.

I've worked in several companies where good quality food is served. One even had a white glove table service restaurant for some of us. But others were great as well. The impact on staff to be asked how you'd like your fresh burger or steak cooked at lunch time is so valuable opposed to eat some home made sandwiches sitting in the car park. Combine that with dining together and you'll get good collaboration within and across teams.

I don't subscribe to the politics of envy and bring everyone else down to the same level. We should strive to improve it for all opposed to measure by some of our own low personal standards.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Honestly, every other team has to pay for catering and sick leave too, it is not something exclusive that only Red Bull has to pay for. Red Bull should have simply spend less money on other items such as R&D to stay within budget.

But this ruling is going to be important. If Red Bull only gets a fine, then the budget cap is effectively a budget tax. Just overspend and just pay a tax / fine later.

It’s going to be interesting how the FIA handle this I think. After last seasons last race fiasco the FIA have been on a PR campaign to restore their reputation and this will be a test. A fine would either need to be significant or they dock constructors points for the advantage gained. A 5% overspend isn’t a small oversight by any stretch.

 

[Pezimak]

F1 managing director Ross Brawn in 2019: ‘breach financial rules, lose your championship’

So Red Bull and Max should be stripped from the 2021 championship. But Ross Brawn won't do what he said back in 2019 I predict.

If Red Bull only gets a fine for this, then I guess everybody should overspend for next season as many teams have plenty of money to pay these fines.

The rules are clear and do NOT state any procedural breach or overspend under 5% should result in losing a championship, from what I've read, in fact they state to not take any constructors points off either. So what ever you claim Brawn said is not what the rules appear to state.
Their are several ways to punish the teams still.

 

[Akrapovic]

The rules are clear and do NOT state any procedural breach or overspend under 5% should result in losing a championship, from what I've read, in fact they state to not take any constructors points off either. So what ever you claim Brawn said is not what the rules appear to state.
Their are several ways to punish the teams still.

This is incorrect. The rules are indeed clear, but not how you stated.

A Minor Sporting Penalty (as linked to the under 5% breach) is defined as one or more of the following:

1) public reprimand
2) deduction of constructors championship points (by an unspecified amount)
3) deduction of drivers championship points (by an unspecified amount)
4) suspension from one or more stages of a competition or competitions, excluding the race
5) limitations on aerodynamic or other testing
6) reduction of the cost cap

Points 2 and 3 allow reduction of points that have been collected during the season where the breach occurred.

 

[Pezimak]

This is incorrect. The rules are indeed clear, but not how you stated.

A Minor Sporting Penalty (as linked to the under 5% breach) is defined as one or more of the following:

1) public reprimand
2) deduction of constructors championship points (by an unspecified amount)
3) deduction of drivers championship points (by an unspecified amount)
4) suspension from one or more stages of a competition or competitions, excluding the race
5) limitations on aerodynamic or other testing
6) reduction of the cost cap

Points 2 and 3 allow reduction of points that have been collected during the season where the breach occurred.

Ah thanks, I think I read the bit about mandatory constructors points being deducted for over 5% overspend and got a bit confused.

I'm sure many will be hoping Max loses last years win. But I doubt that will happen.
Will be interesting to see what they do though. Bit annoyed at Horners adamant denial they overspent. And they've been caught red handed.
I think wind tunnel time being reduced and a reduction in next years cap would be a good deterrent and punishment.

 

[CWallace]

A 5% overspend isn’t a small oversight by any stretch.

For the record, RBR did not overspend by 5%. Based on the article in the Dutch paper Telegraph, the actual overspend is closer to 1%.

For 2021, the F1 Cost Cap was set at USD 145 million. The FIA set the breach levels at certain percentages, with the first level being "up to 5%" which is equal to USD 7.25 million.

RBR has been found to be in violation of this first level, but the actual amount they overspent looks to be well below the 5% maximum.

It's still a breach and they need to be penalized for it, but considering the amount they overspent, the only penalty that likely would really hurt them is either "limitations on aerodynamic or other testing" or a reduction of their 2023 cost cap (which is set at USD 135 million) by a significant multiple of the actual 2021 breach amount.

If they take away 5% of RBR's 2021 WCC points, they would still finish in 2nd place so there is no real penalty there.

If they take away 5% of both Max's and Sergio's WDC points, that hands the 2021 championship to Lewis Hamilton, which will swap the fanbases - Lewis fans will now be happy and Max fans will forever claim he was robbed by the FIA. Sergio would remain 4th.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

If they take away 5% of both Max's and Sergio's WDC points, that hands the 2021 championship to Lewis Hamilton, which will swap the fanbases - Lewis fans will now be happy and Max fans will forever claim he was robbed by the FIA. Sergio would remain 4th.

We don’t know how much the total overspend was and 5% was set as the maximum. I’d rather not rely on a Dutch newspaper in this instance to be honest. Rumours were circulating at one point stating £12m but that was likely from tabloids. We will find out the true figure at some point.

Not that I’d like to see a result altered a year later but that would be rather cheeky of fans to claim Max was robbed considering the manner in which he claimed that title lol. I think a reduced cost cap for 2023 and reduced wind tunnel time is a fitting punishment for this level of cheating. I don’t want to see retrospective championships re-awarded or whatever. It would be nice to see the FIA have some balls about them and actually judge something in a transparent manner for once at least.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I've worked in several companies where good quality food is served. One even had a white glove table service restaurant for some of us. But others were great as well. The impact on staff to be asked how you'd like your fresh burger or steak cooked at lunch time is so valuable opposed to eat some home made sandwiches sitting in the car park. Combine that with dining together and you'll get good collaboration within and across teams.

I don't subscribe to the politics of envy and bring everyone else down to the same level. We should strive to improve it for all opposed to measure by some of our own low personal standards.

I wouldn’t make use of the company catering if we had some so no envy here. But for RB to state that is the reason they overspent is bs. All the teams have a large amount of staff.

 

[Apple fanboy]

We don’t know how much the total overspend was and 5% was set as the maximum. I’d rather not rely on a Dutch newspaper in this instance to be honest. Rumours were circulating at one point stating £12m but that was likely from tabloids. We will find out the true figure at some point.

Not that I’d like to see a result altered a year later but that would be rather cheeky of fans to claim Max was robbed considering the manner in which he claimed that title lol. I think a reduced cost cap for 2023 and reduced wind tunnel time is a fitting punishment for this level of cheating. I don’t want to see retrospective championships re-awarded or whatever. It would be nice to see the FIA have some balls about them and actually judge something in a transparent manner for once at least.

If the punishment is very minor, everyone will be doing it.
That’s why I want a strong statement from the governing body.
But agree stripping the 2021 title isn’t the correct way.

 

[Akrapovic]

I wouldn’t make use of the company catering if we had some so no envy here. But for RB to state that is the reason they overspent is bs. All the teams have a large amount of staff.

Agreed.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I get the feeling the ‘catering comment’ might be one of those ‘did I really just say that’ type moments .

 

[Apple fanboy]

I get the feeling the ‘catering comment’ might be one of those ‘did I really just say that’ type moments .

Now before you go back to work this afternoon would you care for some caviar with your champagne?

 

[Glideslope]

I miss the the days of the V-10 Normally Aspirated racing. So much drama these days. Creates so much division among the fan base. Pulling for your team is no longer friendly rivalries. It's always civil in here , but on other forums people literally threaten each other on a daily basis.

Just so sad.................

 

[Akrapovic]

I miss the the days of the V-10 Normally Aspirated racing. So much drama these days. Creates so much division among the fan base. Pulling for your team is no longer friendly rivalries. It's always civil in here , but on other forums people literally threaten each other on a daily basis.

Just so sad.................

You can blame Netflix for this one. Drive to Survive creating fake rivalries where they pretend drivers hate each other. Playing clips out of order to heighten the drama.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

You can blame Netflix for this one. Drive to Survive creating fake rivalries where they pretend drivers hate each other. Playing clips out of order to heighten the drama.

That program could have been really good, but has done a lot of damage to the sport I think with its fiction. It’s also attracted a lot of idiots to the fanbases and this is becoming evident across many platforms.

I do wonder how they will make this season more interesting than it has been and what stories they will make up to do so.

 

[pachyderm]

You can blame Netflix for this one. Drive to Survive creating fake rivalries where they pretend drivers hate each other. Playing clips out of order to heighten the drama.

Don't worry, I do.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

You can blame Netflix for this one. Drive to Survive creating fake rivalries where they pretend drivers hate each other. Playing clips out of order to heighten the drama.

Sure the Netflix may have acted as a catalyst by making it more accessible to a wider audience who perhaps didn't have pay tv to watch or don't go to the races themselves. I accept that. But beyond that it is not Netflixes fault, it is our fault and our refers to human beings. There are also sorts of groups across a variety of fanbases who cling on to them for reasons which often to me have nothing to do with the motorsport itself. That is not Netflix, that is us human beings looking for the next outlet and opportunity to blame others.

 

[Akrapovic]

Sure the Netflix may have acted as a catalyst by making it more accessible to a wider audience who perhaps didn't have pay tv to watch or don't go to the races themselves. I accept that. But beyond that it is not Netflixes fault, it is our fault and our refers to human beings. There are also sorts of groups across a variety of fanbases who cling on to them for reasons which often to me have nothing to do with the motorsport itself. That is not Netflix, that is us human beings looking for the next outlet and opportunity to blame others.

Last year we had a race director ignoring the rules to make things more interesting, and TV Directors making the sporting regulations part of the show.

It's no coincidence this "Drive to Survive" style of TV Directing and making up situations has merged its way into the regular races now.

 

[Glideslope]

Sure the Netflix may have acted as a catalyst by making it more accessible to a wider audience who perhaps didn't have pay tv to watch or don't go to the races themselves. I accept that. But beyond that it is not Netflixes fault, it is our fault and our refers to human beings. There are also sorts of groups across a variety of fanbases who cling on to them for reasons which often to me have nothing to do with the motorsport itself. That is not Netflix, that is us human beings looking for the next outlet and opportunity to blame others.

I understand your point. Others opinions on the Netflix Production "Drive to survive" not doubt was an assisting catalyst in what we see today. However I agree with your point that it also very much the degradation of society in general. Drive to Survive simply enlarged the "Fuel Flow" in F1. I know others disagree, however my opinion that Liberty Media has been to a point, behind this rise in turning rivals into enemies remains unchanged.

We see this trend in all sports with the exception of Pickle Ball perhaps. Everything is Tribal. You're either Friend or Foe.
Just watching the US Baseball Playoffs the past few days I see fans yelling vulgar profanity that never happened when I went as a young man. Look at the actions by Soccer (Football) fans in the EU and Latin America. Tribe on Tribe. American Football fans are degrading as well. Our children are highly educated people working in teams at very large cutting edge companies ranging from mRNA Development to the Design of next Generation Laser Antennas. Yet, they now come across coworkers that digress into almost teenage rants if you are not a member of their "Sports Tribe."

Both of them are now at a point where they simply pretend they don't watch sports.

So it's really a combination of things IMO. Hopefully in the US we are not going to have a 1787 Thomas Jefferson "Tree of Liberty" moment. I do grow more concerned every day though.

 

[OldMacPro2]

LOL....I've followed F1 for decades.

Ever since the Interweb has allowed user interactions, yes, I am talking Forums, Twitter, etc.....there has been drama. That's at least 20 years ago and more like 30, if you count the BBS era.

Oh how the Schumacher/Ferrari fanboys had to defend everything Michael did! And everything Ferrari did! And the complaints about how the FIA handled every controversy!

It's never been civil online....at least since I can remember.

The only semblance of civility has been the heavily-moderated forums that throw out the most incendiary boobs.

 

[CWallace]

So regarding Red Bull and the F1 Budget Cap, a new report says that Adrian Newey's salary is the likely reason RBR overspent.

RBR considers Newey an employee (Chief Technical Officer) and therefore his salary is not subject to the cap as he is one of the three highest-paid employees (who are exempt from the cap).

However, the FIA considers Newey is a contractor because RBR hired his services through one of the companies Newey is a director of (my guess is RACING SERVICES LIMITED) and therefore his salary is considered part of the cap.

If the FIA decision stands, as Newey is directly responsible for the performance of the 2021 RB16R the team would likely be docked 2021 Constructors Championship points. That being said, as RBR finished with 20% more points than Ferrari (585 to 323), the FIA would need to be downright draconian in their penalty (like just outright excluding them from the 2021 Championship, which IMO would be uncalled for) for it to have any impact.

Is Adrian Newey at the root of Red Bull’s budget cap saga?

Earlier this month, the FIA confirmed that Red Bull was guilty of a “minor” overspend of last year's Formula 1

www.motorsportweek.com

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

So regarding Red Bull and the F1 Budget Cap, a new report says that Adrian Newey's salary is the likely reason RBR overspent.

RBR considers Newey an employee (Chief Technical Officer) and therefore his salary is not subject to the cap as he is one of the three highest-paid employees (who are exempt from the cap).

However, the FIA considers Newey is a contractor because RBR hired his services through one of the companies Newey is a director of (my guess is RACING SERVICES LIMITED) and therefore his salary is considered part of the cap.

If the FIA decision stands, as Newey is directly responsible for the performance of the 2021 RB16R the team would likely be docked 2021 Constructors Championship points. That being said, as RBR finished with 20% more points than Ferrari (585 to 323), the FIA would need to be downright draconian in their penalty (like just outright excluding them from the 2021 Championship, which IMO would be uncalled for) for it to have any impact.

Is Adrian Newey at the root of Red Bull’s budget cap saga?

Earlier this month, the FIA confirmed that Red Bull was guilty of a “minor” overspend of last year's Formula 1

www.motorsportweek.com

They need to factor his wage in though and this would have been known before development for 2021 began. He was earning around £25m a year back in the Vettel era so god knows what he’s earning now!