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2022 Formula 1 Season thread

Apple fanboy said:
In sport their are rules. If you break them there is a penalty. It’s pretty universal. But clearly you see things differently.
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Rules exist everywhere. That doesn't mean they are always that black and white, not in sport not anywhere. Dude, it is being played out in this example right in front of your eyes and you still deny it.

It is universal I agree, but somehow you seem to innocently think rules can only be interpreted in a single way. You seem to think naively that if you do this then that happens. That is not how the world works, that is not how sport works. It universally just doesn't work like that.

Just look at who are the winning profession, ever, in any industry, any sport, any market condition, any economy, involved in any transaction, and any dispute... Have a guess, yes that is correct. Lawyers.

And then you still think that it is as simple as you break a rule and there is a penalty? Come on, wake up...
 
zagato27 said:
I hope they televise Mario driving the McLaren tomorrow and then interview him. Also, it will be nice to see a race on a good circuit and a dry one to boot.
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Mario was in fantastic spirits during the FP2 commentary. Truly 82 years young.

So glad to not only hear from a living legend like him, but to potentially see him drive such a fantastic track. I'm with you, really hope they televise it.
 
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Apple fanboy said:
Timings are terrible for Europe though. Highlights of qualifying are on Sunday morning. The race is on 12:30 Sunday night. Just as well I’m off Monday!
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In the UK it starts at 20:00, so in CEST that would be 21:00, in EET that would also be 21:00, heck even MSK is only 22:00 this Sunday. I'm pretty sure that is all timezones in Europe. Where does 12:30 Sunday night come from?

The-Real-Deal82 said:
This is a race I miss the highlights for usually due to the stupid time it’s put on TV. I’ll know all the results by Monday so it’ll be a waste of my time watching it on catchup. Imagine how many more viewers they’d have if the live race was on tv? Nuts it’s still this way in 2022.
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Stupid time? 20:00 in the evening? It's perfect prime time. People had their dinner, younger children as bathed and put to bed, older children can still watch it as well. Doesn't get in the way of a Sunday roast. You almost can't have a better time. And the live race is on TV, I know I'll be watching it on TV as do my family and friend all across Europe...
 
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cyb3rdud3 said:
Rules exist everywhere. That doesn't mean they are always that black and white, not in sport not anywhere. Dude, it is being played out in this example right in front of your eyes and you still deny it.

It is universal I agree, but somehow you seem to innocently think rules can only be interpreted in a single way. You seem to think naively that if you do this then that happens. That is not how the world works, that is not how sport works. It universally just doesn't work like that.

Just look at who are the winning profession, ever, in any industry, any sport, any market condition, any economy, involved in any transaction, and any dispute... Have a guess, yes that is correct. Lawyers.

And then you still think that it is as simple as you break a rule and there is a penalty? Come on, wake up...
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RBR negotiating their penalties is wrong. Punishment should just be handed out.
 
cyb3rdud3 said:
In the UK it starts at 20:00, so in CEST that would be 21:00, in EET that would also be 21:00, heck even MSK is only 22:00 this Sunday. I'm pretty sure that is all timezones in Europe. Where does 12:30 Sunday night come from?


Stupid time? 20:00 in the evening? It's perfect prime time. People had their dinner, younger children as bathed and put to bed, older children can still watch it as well. Doesn't get in the way of a Sunday roast. You almost can't have a better time. And the live race is on TV, I know I'll be watching it on TV as do my family and friend all across Europe...
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I watch the highlights. It’s on at 12:30. I watch every race that way. I don’t pay SKY for their awful coverage.
 
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Just searched to to see what was happening with Red Bull, ignored most of F1 for the week. And I’m glad to see the FIA living up to their reputation of having not really decided on anything yet..
Just like in the races eh?
From what I can gather, they are thinking of offering RB a ‘deal‘ where they accept they are guilty and receive a cost cap for next year, or they reject that and face an adjudication panel for a hearing where all penalties can be imposed.

But as yet nothing has been decided or officially proposed, the head of the FIA was too late to meet with Horner so had a quick 15 minute chat in the paddocks.

Get on with it for Gods sake! I have no doubt RB will plead innocence, they can make any excuse they like but at the end of the day they have still gone over budget, but they will want to drag it out for as long as possible I’d imagine.
Really this entire fiasco should have been done and dusted in a week, but the governing body of the fastest motorsport takes the longest to do anything.
 
Apple fanboy said:
FIA are negotiating with RBR over their punishment. They really are a toothless organisation.
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That’s the FIA all over though isn’t it. They have their rules and regulations, yes RB should absolutely be allowed to present their side of the story and evidence, but the FIA likes to go further and negotiate punishment.
But as you full well know my friend sadly that’s nothing new with the FIA.
 
Akrapovic said:
Absolutely disagree with this. This is not how sporting punishments are dealt with. You break a rule and there are defined punishments, which are then dished out by a governing body. Teams don't get to negotiate 5 second penalties down live during the race - they are told what the punishment is and they can either appeal or accept it. If the appeal fails, they get the penalty (and often more).

There are only two times in Formula One history where a team has been allowed to decide its own punishment for a rules violation. The first was Saudi Arabia in 2021, where Michael 'YOLO' Masi negotiated live on TV with Christian Horner on what penalty he would like to receive. The second is the FIA negotiating with Red Bull about what penalty is appropriate for a cost cap violation.

McLaren did not get to negotiate Spygate. BAR did not get to negotiate the fuel tank issue. Nobody gets to say "Well lets be grown ups, I think we deserve less".
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No, this has happened 2 times you know about purely because it’s been made public, indeed I clearly remember at the time of the 2021 season when Horner was negotiating their punishment on the radio to the race directors, the Sky presenter said this is nothing new and happens all the time, the FIA aren’t treating RB as a special case, I am confident they will have done the exact same for other teams only they weren’t aired on live TV.
You made a comment earlier stating how the rules are very clear, well yes but it’s not clear at all when it comes to the FIA and punishment is it. Negotiations happening behind the scenes, no doubt to ensure they keep a team in F1 and keep the money rolling in and viewership up.
 
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Pezimak said:
No, this has happened 2 times you know about purely because it’s been made public indeed I clearly remember at the time of the 2021 season when Horner was negotiating their punishment on the radio to the race directors, the Sky presenter said this is nothing new and happens all the time, the FIA aren’t treating RB as a special case, I am confident they will have done the exact same for other teams only they weren’t aired on live TV.
You made a comment earlier stating how the rules are very clear, well yes but it’s not clear at all when it comes to the FIA and punishment is it. Negotiations happening behind the scenes, no doubt to ensure they keep a team in F1 and keep the money rolling in and viewership up.
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Actually the rules are very clear, and the punishment is also clear. It's so clear that's defined in the FIA Sporting and Financial Regulations. Similarly the right to appeal is also clear - you do not have one.

Article 6.28 -
there shall be no right of appeal in respect of any decision by the Cost Cap Administration as to whether to enter into an ABA or not

Article 9.1(b) defines the penalties available for a minor breach of the cost cap (Red Bills is deemed minor, as it's under 5%)

(i) public reprimand;
(ii) deduction of Constructors' Championship points awarded for the Championship that took place within the Reporting Period of the breach;
(iii) deduction of Drivers' Championship points awarded for the Championship that took place within the Reporting Period of the breach;
(iv) suspension from one or more stages of a Competition or Competitions, excluding for the avoidance of doubt the race itself;
(v) limitations on ability to conduct aerodynamic or other Testing; and/or (vi)
reduction of the Cost Cap
 
Akrapovic said:
Actually the rules are very clear, and the punishment is also clear. It's so clear that's defined in the FIA Sporting and Financial Regulations. Similarly the right to appeal is also clear - you do not have one.

Article 6.28 -
there shall be no right of appeal in respect of any decision by the Cost Cap Administration as to whether to enter into an ABA or not

Article 9.1(b) defines the penalties available for a minor breach of the cost cap (Red Bills is deemed minor, as it's under 5%)

(i) public reprimand;
(ii) deduction of Constructors' Championship points awarded for the Championship that took place within the Reporting Period of the breach;
(iii) deduction of Drivers' Championship points awarded for the Championship that took place within the Reporting Period of the breach;
(iv) suspension from one or more stages of a Competition or Competitions, excluding for the avoidance of doubt the race itself;
(v) limitations on ability to conduct aerodynamic or other Testing; and/or (vi)
reduction of the Cost Cap
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And yet the FIA are negotiating the punishment with Red Bull.
 
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Yes. And this is why people are unhappy - because the regulations don't allow it. Hence this entire discussion.

If the regulations were as unclear as you stated then people would be less unhappy.

This is also why Michael Masi is no longer a race director. You say that (Saudis grid negotiation) has happened before, but it literally has not - as confirmed by other team principles. It was also agreed that Masi broke the chain of command, as the race director does not get to decide who is penalised - he refers incidents to the stewards and the stewards make this call. This didn't happen in Saudi and he took it upon himself to decide the grid - another world first.

So yes - there are rules. And rules violations have defined punishments. During 2021 this process completely broke down and people were unhappy. Masi was sacked as a result. People continue to be unhappy as the FIA continues the 2021 trend of ignore its own regulations.
 
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Akrapovic said:
Yes. And this is why people are unhappy - because the regulations don't allow it. Hence this entire discussion.

If the regulations were as unclear as you stated then people would be less unhappy.

This is also why Michael Masi is no longer a race director. You say that (Saudis grid negotiation) has happened before, but it literally has not - as confirmed by other team principles. It was also agreed that Masi broke the chain of command, as the race director does not get to decide who is penalised - he refers incidents to the stewards and the stewards make this call. This didn't happen in Saudi and he took it upon himself to decide the grid - another world first.

So yes - there are rules. And rules violations have defined punishments. During 2021 this process completely broke down and people were unhappy. Masi was sacked as a result. People continue to be unhappy as the FIA continues the 2021 trend of ignore its own regulations.
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Ah so the ex F1 driver Sky presenters were wrong then, according to yourself. You do realise you are basically claiming here that the FIA are giving special treatment to Red Bull ONLY right? Something I will gladly state is categorically wrong every time.
 
Pezimak said:
Ah so the ex F1 driver Sky presenters were wrong then, according to yourself. You do realise you are basically claiming here that the FIA are giving special treatment to Red Bull ONLY right? Something I will gladly state is categorically wrong every time.
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Ah we're pulling that card. Anthony Davidson and Martin Brundle said, live, that they'd never seen it before. I believe (but you may want to check this), that they once drove in F1. They were heavily criticised on the internet for it, with people saying they're just Lewis fans. Seems they cannot win. A whole bunch of current F1 drivers disagreed with it too - and the events at Abu Dhabi. Oh no!? What shall we do!? We have drivers both agreeing and disagreeing!?

Look, I understand that you want the FIA is doing to be ok, but you don't get to make wildly incorrect statements like the rules aren't clear, when you clearly haven't bothered reading an article on the situation, never mind the regulations themselves. Especially when the regulations are public documents that anyone can read. At least we'd have saved a page of having to clarify what the regulations actually are.

Or, alternatively, you can say things like the rules aren't clear. But you don't then have the right to be upset when someone posts the facts.
 
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The-Real-Deal82 said:
The footage of Mario driving the McLaren at the COTA has been on YouTube for the last week guys, I’ve seen it and his interviews. He’s in great shape for his age I have to say.
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Hmmmm, looks like he was driving the Mclaren at Laguna Seca not COTA. There is a video of him opening up COTA in 2012 driving his old JP Lotus. Still hoping he's driving today. Have to watch the qualifying, maybe they'll show some footage.
 
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Zest28 said:
RIP.

Without this man, many sports today (not just F1) would have looked totally different. Quite interesting how a guy with such a big impact on sports was never talked about.

He was basically involved in almost everything.
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He wasn’t constantly in the public eye I suppose and only appeared on the grid occasionally. He certainly spiced sport up with his sponsorship schemes over the years. Gerhard Berger if I remember correctly was the first in F1 to be seen with Red Bull branding. I think it was a drinks bottle while he was driving for either McLaren or Ferrari?
 
Akrapovic said:
Ah we're pulling that card. Anthony Davidson and Martin Brundle said, live, that they'd never seen it before. I believe (but you may want to check this), that they once drove in F1. They were heavily criticised on the internet for it, with people saying they're just Lewis fans. Seems they cannot win. A whole bunch of current F1 drivers disagreed with it too - and the events at Abu Dhabi. Oh no!? What shall we do!? We have drivers both agreeing and disagreeing!?

Look, I understand that you want the FIA is doing to be ok, but you don't get to make wildly incorrect statements like the rules aren't clear, when you clearly haven't bothered reading an article on the situation, never mind the regulations themselves. Especially when the regulations are public documents that anyone can read. At least we'd have saved a page of having to clarify what the regulations actually are.

Or, alternatively, you can say things like the rules aren't clear. But you don't then have the right to be upset when someone posts the facts.
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You are stating the opposite to what I heard with Sky presenters. People can disagree with it, but doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen regularly. Last year FYI was the first year ever we were given access to those radio calls.
I recall hearing many times Toto jumping on the radio to the Race Director after any incident involving his drivers defending them regardless.

All you’ve done is copy and paste the rules relating to price cap breaches, that doesn’t change the facts though does it, that the FIA are negotiating with Red Bull the punishment they will receive which indicates those rules are not as clear cut as you are proposing, posting the rules doesn’t give you the right to ignore the current real life and what is going on. I don’t care much for the FIA, your statement that ‘I want the FIA is doing is ok‘ is ignoring my recent posts on this matter. I never once stated this or presented this opinion, you are being confused between radio calls between Red Bull and Massi when they are sat in the pit lane under a red flag during the last race of last season, and this months proceedings and Red Bull being found guilty of breaching the price cap. That is a very important distinction of my posts I think you are missing.

If you read my recent posts you would see I was calling for a price cap reduction and / or reduced wind tunnel time for next season. So the FIA are actually issuing one of the punishments I wanted. But it appears they do not have a set rule of how much it is reduced hence the negotiating.
 
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The-Real-Deal82 said:
He wasn’t constantly in the public eye I suppose and only appeared on the grid occasionally. He certainly spiced sport up with his sponsorship schemes over the years. Gerhard Berger if I remember correctly was the first in F1 to be seen with Red Bull branding. I think it was a drinks bottle while he was driving for either McLaren or Ferrari?
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I believe you are correct. Funny thing is I’ve never even tried a RB. A guy I work with drinks energy drinks all the time. Clearly doesn’t seem to do him any good. Always looks like he’s just fallen out of bed.
Qualifying was ok. Ferrari looked strong, but with LeClerc’s penalty it will be Max leading by the first pit stop if not the first corner. Hopefully not though.
See how I go with the race. Suspect I might doze off trying to stay up to watch it.
 
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GO SAINZ!!
 
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