If you think no one really cares about a team ending as 1 & 2 at the end of a F1 season then your not really a F1 fan then because I suggest you go read the many biographies of some of F1's most famous names and you will see a team having their drivers finish 1st and 2nd in the drivers table matters, it matters a lot.
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2022 Formula 1 Season thread
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Yes he received teams orders, however by his reaction on the radio it sounds like they've had this conversation before and (for whatever reason) it was communicated that he wouldn't do that. To then as the team to instruct him in public to do something that was agreed not to be done is not on, not smart, and comes across as dropping someone in it to make him do it. Huge mistake of the team, that generally doesn't work well with people with Dutch heritage and I know a fair few other cultures. Don't make him cross a line that he wouldn't cross.
Sure one could speculate about why that line is there, but that is the part we don't know. And Max has held his side of the bargain and has not gone public about that part.
In my opinion this is a mess created by Red Bull, and people are way to quick to place this at Max's feet without unpacking what really happened there.
Just his entire personality.
Acting like such a child for no benefit in a team that revolves around him. It would have cost him nothing to let Perez past but could cost him a title. In a couple of seasons if check is retiring and the title is in the balance why would he help max? It’s just pettiness from max really.
It’s not just this weekend but in general I’ve never seen anything that makes me like the guy.
I've only been regularly following F1 for three decades, so I suppose my fandom is a bit suspect, but in that time, only when one team/car/engine was far and away dominant did you see the #1 and #2 in the WDC from the same team. Since 1992, Williams, Ferrari and AMG are the only ones to have done it (and even Ferrari did it less than half the time with Barichello).
I try to like every driver on the grid as these guys are the best of the best but I agree, Max is difficult to like for me. I know all drivers complain but his explosive hissy fits and swearing over the radio when things aren’t going his way just make him seem more entitled than most for me. He works for the team and when a driver is asked to do something, they should do it and ask questions later IMO. Red Bull should be fining him for embarrassing them and himself on Sunday by not following direct orders.
I also think the FIA should be looking closely at some of the interviews he did after the race. In one that I saw he makes a rather incriminating comment. ‘As I approached Lewis I could see he wasn’t going to give me space and I wasn’t going to pull out so I knew there would be contact’…. He admitted to deliberately causing a collision which I think needs to be investigated. He believes he can force other drivers out of the way and I have no idea how he thinks he has earned the right to demand this? Max reminds me of a rougher version of Michael Schumacher with his ruthless driving but is devoid of the cool and calm demeanour. He’s a wonderful talent but has a poor attitude at times.
.I agree with this. Lewis, as with any driver in that situation is allowed to defend their position regardless of how frustrating it maybe towards the driver trying to take that position away from them. Max should have waited for a better opportunity to get past Lewis but his comment clearly shows that he was not prepared to wait and thus deliberately put himself and his car in a position that would cause a collision. FIA should fine MAX or even deduct points from him for deliberately driving in an unsafe manner to get past a rival.
The crashes.Which were? Come on, give us a bit of substance and some contributory value.
I don't know why people are still surprised at Max being an utter knob of a person.
He is easily the best driver on the grid right now. But he was also raised by Jos Verstappen and its common knowledge that he raised Max in a pretty messed up & volatile environment. There is no way that some of Jos's reprehensible personality didn't rub off on Max through that entire time and moments like what happened in the race with Checo just evidences that further.
People always say that we shouldn't look to celebrities & media personalities as moral role models because a lot of them are just downright horrible people. I don't see why it should be any different for athletes.
You can be a world-class athlete and an awful person at the same time. It's not that complicated.
He is easily the best driver on the grid right now. But he was also raised by Jos Verstappen and its common knowledge that he raised Max in a pretty messed up & volatile environment. There is no way that some of Jos's reprehensible personality didn't rub off on Max through that entire time and moments like what happened in the race with Checo just evidences that further.
People always say that we shouldn't look to celebrities & media personalities as moral role models because a lot of them are just downright horrible people. I don't see why it should be any different for athletes.
You can be a world-class athlete and an awful person at the same time. It's not that complicated.
They should have a sprint race in Abu Dhabi winner takes all Lewis on pole max in 19th between the Canadians. 😂
So if you've agreed red lines that you will not cross (none of us know exactly what they are but that is irrelevant as they were agreed between them), but then you are repeatedly asked to cross them. And asked in public. And you maintain your integrity and stick to the agreement it makes you and utter knob of a person?
To me that is weird, I have a lot more respect for people who stick by their red lines and personal integrity than those who want you to break them. Outside of all the internet experts at worst this is highlighting either bad communication, or very bad behaviour by Red Bull to play this out in the open.
Whenever I join an organisation I make it very clear what lines I won't cross, and it doesn't matter in what scenario they'll ask/prompt/order me I just won't do it...Based on the little actual information that is all that has happened here.
You may have respect for someone who masks selfish, petty revenge behind personal integrity, but I don't. Especially when they do it to someone who is a huge reason for all they success they have. Maybe not 2022, but definitely 2021. Checo got the "Minister of Defense" nickname after last season for a reason.
I don't know what Max asked of them behind closed doors and neither do you. Max has his own interpretation of what he asked of them but it is quite clear that his team thought that what they were asking for was not off the table, otherwise they would not have done it. Christian Horner is probably the smartest man on the grid and he, more than anyone wearing those Red Bull colours, knows what he is doing.
Also, this is not a suit-and-tie organisation, so I don't know why that sort of comparison is even relevant. It's a team sport. And if you've ever played competitive team sports, you'll know that the saying "taking one for the team" exists for a reason.
And the worst part is that he was losing nothing at all. Nothing. All of this bitterness for P6. It wasn't even a podium place. All just to prove a point.
Like i mentioned in my initial post, I enjoy Max's driving, but I am never going to look at him or any other driver as a measure of morality. I can separate the two and enjoy the sport just fine.
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And that is the thing, you don't know (nor do I) whether he masks selfish, petty revenge like that. That is what you choose to take from what happened. Which naturally is your prerogative, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.
Agreed, I don't know, you don't know, only Max and Christian know.
Any organisation is a team, it doesn't work without a team. But a good team manager also knows which boundaries not to cross, and to never make their team look bad in public.
Regardless of all the reasons, I'd never made that radio call in public and would have sorted it out in private. Now everyone looks bad.
Look at Ferrari, Charles was begging on the public radio but they just avoided the issue. Nobody is talking about them. This was a really bad play by Red Bull.
We don't know why it was, whether it was to prove a point or not. That is all pure speculation, and it's sad to see the internet blow up with all sorts of theories around it.
I choose to believe what precedents dictate. Max has a well-established history of being rash and brutal on track to get what he wants. Of course that does not mean for sure that he is the instigator here, but I can only go off of the track record he has established for himself...which is not good.
Like Checo's minister of defense nickname, "Crashstappen" was also not just conjured out of thin air.
Again, this is not a moral judgement on him. Senna and Schumacher have both quite blatantly crashed into people to lock-in their championships. This pattern of behaviour is not unique to Max, but it does undeniably exist in him too.
Like I said before, if Christian approved of that radio call being public, I'm sure they were expecting a different reply. He is not a stupid man. Which makes me believe, given Max's well-known propensity & history to take things too far, that the onus is more on him than on the team.
Again, I choose to believe in precedents. Horner is the king of strategic, coded radio messages and there is absolutely no way he would have made that radio message if it wasn't actually on the table to begin with.
You cannot sort out something that needs to be done in the duration of a race in private anyway so I don't know what you mean by that.
The reason the Charles/Ferrari thing isn't a major headline is because Charles is asking something of a team who have continually let him down, including on that very weekend, and made his race hell before Sunday even began. Even I think that what he was asking for was completely unjustified, but his desperation to salvage just about anything from an utterly incompetent team who had already screwed over his entire race before it even began is a lot more forgivable.
Charles has already lost everything. Max didn't have anything to lose at all.
Again...precedents. We will never find out what actually happened so we can only speculate. What you believe is your prerogative, but I choose to believe in Max's track record which, once again, is not good. Especially when the person on the other side is Checo who himself has a shining track record of putting the team and his teammate before himself at every single given moment.
I know it would never happen but it would be great if Horner sat Max out for a week as punishment. A proper Sir Alex type move.
There’s nothing worse than an amazing talent with no sense of humility.
There’s nothing worse than an amazing talent with no sense of humility.
Hilarious rhetorics man !!
You know, Nazi's have red lines. And racists have red lines too ... Truth be told, a man's red lines tell a lot about him !
Remember Vettel and "Multi 21" back in 2013 at Malaysia?
Or Austria 2002? Schumacher didn't have to pass Rubens at the Checkered Flag, but he did.
Senna deliberately crashed into Prost not once, but twice, at Suzuka when the WDC was on the line. Schumacher did it twice, as well (Australia 1994 and Jerez in 1997).
Makes one almost pine for the 1998 Australian Grand Prix when Häkkinen and Coulthard decided before the start that the first car to take the first corner would be the one that won the race if they were 1-2 at the end.
Or Austria 2002? Schumacher didn't have to pass Rubens at the Checkered Flag, but he did.
Senna deliberately crashed into Prost not once, but twice, at Suzuka when the WDC was on the line. Schumacher did it twice, as well (Australia 1994 and Jerez in 1997).
Makes one almost pine for the 1998 Australian Grand Prix when Häkkinen and Coulthard decided before the start that the first car to take the first corner would be the one that won the race if they were 1-2 at the end.
There’s some wild rumours doing the rounds today.
1. Verstappen was very angry with Checo after Monaco qualifying as he crash led in Q3 and prevented Max getting his final lap in. This is something that got very heated apparently behind the scenes.
2. Jos Verstappen dislikes Perez due to his close relationship with Anthony Hamilton and a level of distrust has formed between teammates.
3. Verstappen has point blank refused in briefings to let Perez through under any circumstance, and has been at loggerheads with Red Bull for months to which neither party agrees. Max insists on preferential treatment though and has threatened the team should the favour be denied in his direction.
All good fun and after a season with some occasional exciting racing with a rather dull title fight sewn up early, it’s nice to have something additional to talk about alongside George’s amazing first win and Hamilton’s super drive to second! Hamilton the British racing driver for anybody confused lol.
Was listening to a podcast today and they were lamenting that soon we’re going to have a lot of very bland drivers Seb, Lewis, Alonso and Ricardo all have real personality and two of them have only one race left.
The new crop all feel very corporate and a bit dull.
There’s not many from the other 16 I would want to go to the pub with.
The new crop all feel very corporate and a bit dull.
There’s not many from the other 16 I would want to go to the pub with.
I can’t see Mick making it back to F1 after this, he’s not exactly set the world alight in the Haas despite his teammate producing some decent drives this year. He has cost them a lot of money by crashing the car a lot too.
Agreed had the name and some good junior results but has done nothing in F1 to suggest he deserves to continue.I can’t see Mick making it back to F1 after this, he’s not exactly set the world alight in the Haas despite his teammate producing some decent drives this year. He has cost them a lot of money by crashing the car a lot too.