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Apr 14, 2021
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I'm the tech guy who people come to with their tech problems. Pretty much every Android problem someone brings to me is either due to poor design or too much unnecessary complexity. Android is by geeks for geeks. Too much complexity is something that geeks like, but for normal people, it's a usability nightmare.
 
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The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
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100% agree. I dispise rabid fans of either side. Yes, I have been having ALOT of issues with iOS in the past year. It's not the device either because both my 8 and 11 are having the same issues. Tried wipeing the devices and starting new, etc. Nothing works. So time to move on. People defending apple like its a family member is down right ridiculous. Same on the other side. I have had people here state that I am the issue that my devices are having issues. SERIOUSLY? AM I HOLDING IT WRONG? But I digress. Android is fresh and awesome now. iOS is stale and boring.

I haven’t had any issues that I am aware of with iOS personally, but if you have and are fed up with it, absolutely try something different. The best of luck with it all
 

Shanghaichica

macrumors G5
Apr 8, 2013
14,725
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No real issues with any of my iphones or ipads. The only one I can think of is my iPhone still ringing out loud even when the silent switch is on. I know its not hardware related because it did it on my 11 pro max and then started again on my 12 Pro max which was set up from a backup. Of course I know the solution is to reset the phone and set up as new but I can't be bothered considering it only happens occasionally.
 

Klyster

macrumors 68020
Dec 7, 2013
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I
I'm the tech guy who people come to with their tech problems. Pretty much every Android problem someone brings to me is either due to poor design or too much unnecessary complexity. Android is by geeks for geeks. Too much complexity is something that geeks like, but for normal people, it's a usability nightmare.

I totally disagree with this notion.
I know many a luddite who are fine with thier Android phones.

I'm not saying Android is inherently easy to use compared to IOS, but if some of these people I know can deal with the issues I've seen, anyone can.

Android is only as complex as you make it, if you stick to the basics, it not hard to use at all.
I know there are some lemon phones out there though, but they don't represent Android in its entirety.

How's the decline coming along people?
 

Expos of 1969

Contributor
Aug 25, 2013
4,825
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I'm the tech guy who people come to with their tech problems. Pretty much every Android problem someone brings to me is either due to poor design or too much unnecessary complexity. Android is by geeks for geeks. Too much complexity is something that geeks like, but for normal people, it's a usability nightmare.
I must strongly disagree. Almost two years ago I left iPhone and tried Android for the first time. I am far from being a geek. My Samsung Galaxy S10e is certainly not complex to use for normal people. It is far from a usability nightmare. Not sure what type of people are coming to you as their tech guy.
 

The Game 161

macrumors Nehalem
Dec 15, 2010
30,980
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I


I totally disagree with this notion.
I know many a luddite who are fine with thier Android phones.

I'm not saying Android is inherently easy to use compared to IOS, but if some of these people I know can deal with the issues I've seen, anyone can.

Android is only as complex as you make it, if you stick to the basics, it not hard to use at all.
I know there are some lemon phones out there though, but they don't represent Android in its entirety.

How's the decline coming along people?

Well yeah if you don’t want to customise and add load of widgets to your home screen or changes launchers or icon packs you don’t need to. Just leave it as it comes out the box and use it normally. With smart switch it’s easy to transfer stuff as well
 

BigPotatoLobbyist

macrumors 6502
Dec 25, 2020
301
155
UFS is a huge deal, I think people don’t realize just how bad the storage degradation was on Android for some time and just how much not only this degradation but the slower speeds impacted performance perceptions independently

Android is still a cluster**** in the UI latency department - while Windows phone for example felt much smoother despite running on commodity hardware. But the Android 120hz displays and polling + efficient Android menus without gluttonous animations that Apple love, kind of make up for it.
 
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BigPotatoLobbyist

macrumors 6502
Dec 25, 2020
301
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Not from what I've seen, have a couple of friends who are die hard samsung fans who finally had enough of the over heating, camera lag, battery issues, phone rebooting for no reason and the list goes on, one got a iPhone 11 and the other a iPhone 11 Pro Max, asked them what they thought of iOS a few month later, told me they're never going back.

They can't believe how polished and headache free iPhone is compared to their previous Samsung phones, they were also blown away by Face ID and apple customer support.
Tbh I bet if Apple wanted to it could cut some of the fat from the exchange rates and and all with a short term hit to ASP in exchange for a huge market share boost in Western Europe.

edit: obviously this is true of their or any non-Veblen premium products at any given moment, but I mean, just bringing iPhone prices to US levels, one wonders
 
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Klyster

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Dec 7, 2013
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Well yeah if you don’t want to customise and add load of widgets to your home screen or changes launchers or icon packs you don’t need to. Just leave it as it comes out the box and use it normally. With smart switch it’s easy to transfer stuff as well
Widgets are so 2012 lol.

I still use weather and clock but that's it.

But yes, I agree, I do bugger all customization these days, I'm old and boring ?
 

polyphenol

macrumors 68020
Sep 9, 2020
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Funny!
Then: iOS vs Android…..vs Windows
Now: iOS vs Android.

In this instance the marketplace very much worked. The weak, inferior product was culled from the herd.
Very much depends on what you mean by "worked".

We have ended up with a duopoly (with the exception of some Chinese companies which have for various reasons gone off to Android-like phones).

From where we are, it is very difficult to see how any new competitor could get going. From now on, as indeed has already been the case for some time, we have a stultifying market with each of the two making incremental changes release to release. And others adding shells and apps.

Had all apps been equally available across the three, arguments about which was weakest might have been more balanced. But without those apps in abundance, many avoided Windows. Regardless any other qualities.
 

Steve Adams

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Dec 16, 2020
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Anecdotic examples such as a family’s decisions do not have statistical significance.
It's not anecdotic evidence. Android gained more market share and samsung overtook all other brands as the top selling phone manufacturer in 2020 and the first part of 2021.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
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It's not anecdotic evidence. Android gained more market share and samsung overtook all other brands as the top selling phone manufacturer in 2020 and the first part of 2021.

Android will always have a much larger market share than iOS due to the amount of devices that run it and across so many price points. This has been the case since 2008.
 

Steve Adams

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Dec 16, 2020
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Android will always have a much larger market share than iOS due to the amount of devices that run it and across so many price points. This has been the case since 2008.
I know, the person I quoted claimed ios was gaining market share and my personal experience is a one off. I politely proved him otherwise. Price points do not change facts. Actually I proved the entire thread wrong considering it's called android in decline. It's quite the opposite, android is gaining, not retreating in market share. Just because apple sold alot of 12's does not mean they gained anything in the total market place. Since many android manufacturers came out with great hardware, that rival or beat the iphone in similar categories, android gained more market share.
 

Shanghaichica

macrumors G5
Apr 8, 2013
14,725
13,245
UK
Widgets are so 2012 lol.

I still use weather and clock but that's it.

But yes, I agree, I do bugger all customization these days, I'm old and boring ?
Exactly lol Even on my iPhone I have the photos widget, one for battery levels and one for weather and that's it. On my S21 ultra the only widget I have so far is the weather widget and the Google search toolbar.
 
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Klyster

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Android will always have a much larger market share than iOS due to the amount of devices that run it and across so many price points. This has been the case since 2008.

That's what I don't get about Apple.

If I were in charge, I'd be making lower entry point devices, globally. They'd absolutely kill.
All the people who buy the premium devices will still buy premium devices.

It's not like they don't have the equity to do so....
 

Shanghaichica

macrumors G5
Apr 8, 2013
14,725
13,245
UK
That's what I don't get about Apple.

If I were in charge, I'd be making lower entry point devices, globally. They'd absolutely kill.
All the people who buy the premium devices will still buy premium devices.
I think they are trying with phones like the SE, however there is only so low they will go.

I think people who buy premium devices because of the features are quite small. Most iPhone owners would buy cheaper iphones if they could. Most don't want to buy the pro or even the 12. I think most would be happy with the SE due to the price.
 
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One2Grift

Cancelled
Jun 1, 2021
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Very much depends on what you mean by "worked".

We have ended up with a duopoly (with the exception of some Chinese companies which have for various reasons gone off to Android-like phones).

From where we are, it is very difficult to see how any new competitor could get going. From now on, as indeed has already been the case for some time, we have a stultifying market with each of the two making incremental changes release to release. And others adding shells and apps.

Had all apps been equally available across the three, arguments about which was weakest might have been more balanced. But without those apps in abundance, many avoided Windows. Regardless any other qualities.

One thing for sure: organic victory because it’s a better product isn’t usually telling the whole story. See Betamax vs VHS to know that the outright better product doesn’t always win. Further, how deftly the company handles product roll outs, advertising as well as deals with suppliers as well as how existing user base feels about the company/product and potential user base feels about the company in general. It is or can be more than product superiority.
if I suggested it was as simple as the best product won? Then I should have prefaced it with these other numerous potential side factors (sheer luck can be a factor too).

The mobile phone market is at very best Duopoly-ish. Outside of just a couple of markets, it’s actually much closer to monopoly. Android is about 85% of the WW mobile os market and is likely, within a few years, to be almost 90%. Google is a HUGE company with very near monopoly numbers WW. Apple is a HUGE company with a modicum above niche player WW(forecasts say Apple mobile OS will actually decline up to 2% in the next several years). I think it was about 2000 when Microsoft had 91% of the OS market and Macs had 8%. Apple Macs were repeatedly referred to as a niche market. iPhones as a % of the market is not too far from that.
So If you’re truly concerned about mobile OS being impenetrable by another company, you need only to speak to the Google HQ in Mountain View, CA.

The argument (apps must be open to everyone, that fixes it) doesn’t square with the history. When I went from my Galaxy to my first iPhone, the 6+, one of the few negatives was a very distinct reduction in my apps choice. So if limited app choice was MS/Windows’ demise (a company with a HUGE existing user base and engineers coming out their ears), then Apple should have failed too. Further, Microsoft had the All Day Long money and ability to create apps. Unfortunately for Windows, too many people equate Windows with bugs, blue screens, the sometimes very unfair but nevertheless negative view on Windows. I would have never went with a Windows phone and I was not alone on that. Windows to us was the one we had to unfortunately use but always we’re happy to be using Linux instead (Servers).

But to your ultimate point, IMHO, that Apple shouldn’t have the walled garden. It is straight up unreality to suggest it is Apple apps that holds out other companies (like Windows). The soon to be 90% mobile OS dominating player’s store is ultra thick with app choices. That’s who/where you need to be talking too. That’s who you want to talk to to get more companies making mobile os platforms. Apple already purposefully limits their app offerings (the new player will immediately have a leg up on Apple by offering more choices) and Apple’s mobile os share is too small to have any WW market impact. (Fyi, 1. Apple will not be taking down the wall as much as some desperately insist they must be like the near monopoly company), 2. And you heard it here first, The duopoly talk and apps/walled garden push will land in Google’s lap far more so)
 

Klyster

macrumors 68020
Dec 7, 2013
2,231
2,642
I know, the person I quoted claimed ios was gaining market share and my personal experience is a one off. I politely proved him otherwise. Price points do not change facts. Actually I proved the entire thread wrong considering it's called android in decline. It's quite the opposite, android is gaining, not retreating in market share. Just because apple sold alot of 12's does not mean they gained anything in the total market place. Since many android manufacturers came out with great hardware, that rival or beat the iphone in similar categories, android gained more market share.

Just look at tablets for example, 2010-2021

Apple had 96.8% in 2010

Fast forward to now and check that number, it's in the low 30's.
Samsung alone is at 19.1% as of March.
 
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Klyster

macrumors 68020
Dec 7, 2013
2,231
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I think they are trying with phones like the SE, however there is only so low they will go.

I think people who buy premium devices because of the features are quite small. Most iPhone owners would buy cheaper iphones if they could. Most don't want to buy the pro or even the 12. I think most would be happy with the SE due to the price.

I was thinking more of developing markets rather than the established markets.
I get what you're saying, they don't want to cannibalize themselves.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,314
25,463
Wales, United Kingdom
I know, the person I quoted claimed ios was gaining market share and my personal experience is a one off. I politely proved him otherwise. Price points do not change facts. Actually I proved the entire thread wrong considering it's called android in decline. It's quite the opposite, android is gaining, not retreating in market share. Just because apple sold alot of 12's does not mean they gained anything in the total market place. Since many android manufacturers came out with great hardware, that rival or beat the iphone in similar categories, android gained more market share.

I don’t think many in this thread believe Android is in decline to be fair. I have no idea what the market share breakdown is to be honest as it doesn’t really affect me. Apple seems to do well against the high end Android devices as when reports show good sales and growth, I don’t think it compares iOS to the entire Android segment, just the competing segments. Still, it doesn’t really matter to us either way.
 

Steve Adams

Suspended
Dec 16, 2020
954
684
Just look at tablets for example, 2010-2021

Apple had 96.8% in 2010

Fast forward to now and check that number, it's in the low 30's.
Samsung alone is at 19.1% as of March.
Exactly. I already moved one iPad out of my household and the other is hitting the ebay stream soon in favor of samsung tablets.
 

Shanghaichica

macrumors G5
Apr 8, 2013
14,725
13,245
UK
One thing for sure: organic victory because it’s a better product isn’t usually telling the whole story. See Betamax vs VHS to know that the outright better product doesn’t always win. Further, how deftly the company handles product roll outs, advertising as well as deals with suppliers as well as how existing user base feels about the company/product and potential user base feels about the company in general. It is or can be more than product superiority.
if I suggested it was as simple as the best product won? Then I should have prefaced it with these other numerous potential side factors (sheer luck can be a factor too).

The mobile phone market is at very best Duopoly-ish. Outside of just a couple of markets, it’s actually much closer to monopoly. Android is about 85% of the WW mobile os market and is likely, within a few years, to be almost 90%. Google is a HUGE company with very near monopoly numbers WW. Apple is a HUGE company with a modicum above niche player WW(forecasts say Apple mobile OS will actually decline up to 2% in the next several years). I think it was about 2000 when Microsoft had 91% of the OS market and Macs had 8%. Apple Macs were repeatedly referred to as a niche market. iPhones as a % of the market is not too far from that.
So If you’re truly concerned about mobile OS being impenetrable by another company, you need only to speak to the Google HQ in Mountain View, CA.

The argument (apps must be open to everyone, that fixes it) doesn’t square with the history. When I went from my Galaxy to my first iPhone, the 6+, one of the few negatives was a very distinct reduction in my apps choice. So if limited app choice was MS/Windows’ demise (a company with a HUGE existing user base and engineers coming out their ears), then Apple should have failed too. Further, Microsoft had the All Day Long money and ability to create apps. Unfortunately for Windows, too many people equate Windows with bugs, blue screens, the sometimes very unfair but nevertheless negative view on Windows. I would have never went with a Windows phone and I was not alone on that. Windows to us was the one we had to unfortunately use but always we’re happy to be using Linux instead (Servers).

But to your ultimate point, IMHO, that Apple shouldn’t have the walled garden. It is straight up unreality to suggest it is Apple apps that holds out other companies (like Windows). The soon to be 90% mobile OS dominating player’s store is ultra thick with app choices. That’s who/where you need to be talking too. That’s who you want to talk to to get more companies making mobile os platforms. Apple already purposefully limits their app offerings (the new player will immediately have a leg up on Apple by offering more choices) and Apple’s mobile os share is too small to have any WW market impact. (Fyi, 1. Apple will not be taking down the wall as much as some desperately insist they must be like the near monopoly company), 2. And you heard it here first, The duopoly talk and apps/walled garden push will land in Google’s lap far more so)
I totally get the worldwide picture. However I think it depends on where you live. In the UK the iPhone isn't niche with just over 50% of smartphone owners using ios. Also there are differences regionally. Where I live in the UK, iPhone ownership is much higher I'd say about 80% in my town own iPhones. Where I work it's about 70% iPhone and 30% android. However in London it's much more mixed. I went on a training session a few months ago in London and I was the only person with an iPhone in the room.

However I think outside of the USA, Australia and select European countries it's predominantly android. Even in big European countries like Germany and France iPhone ownership is very low. I understand that in developing countries android phones are favoured because the cost of iphones are too high. However in most European countries for example where most people can afford an iPhone if they wanted to they are choosing android phones because they feel thay offer better value.

However even as a predominantly niche product, the iPhone makes a lot of money for Apple. So apple might not have the same market share as android but they are making more money from hardware than all the other android OEMs.

Google have their fingers in so many pies and they have a steady stream of income.

Samsung don't only make phones but other electrical devices and are involved in he manufacture of parts so they are set up well.
 

Steve Adams

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Dec 16, 2020
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I don’t think many in this thread believe Android is in decline to be fair. I have no idea what the market share breakdown is to be honest as it doesn’t really affect me. Apple seems to do well against the high end Android devices as when reports show good sales and growth, I don’t think it compares iOS to the entire Android segment, just the competing segments. Still, it doesn’t really matter to us either way.
That was the entire point of this thread. I care less either way as well. Just proving the point of this thread that android is NOT in decline. It's actually gaining more users every quarter. I was a happy apple mobile user until halfway through my stint with my 8. Lots of issues with iOS since then, and now I am almost free of the crap. and happier as well I might add.
 

Steve Adams

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Dec 16, 2020
954
684
I totally get the worldwide picture. However I think it depends on where you live. In the UK the iPhone isn't niche with just over 50% of smartphone owners using ios. Also there are differences regionally. Where I like in the UK, iPhone ownership is much higher I'd say about 80% in my town own iPhones. Where I work it's about 70% iPhone and 30% android. However in London it's much more mixed. I went on a training session a few months ago in London and I was the only person with an iPhone in the room.

However I think outside of the USA, Australia and select European countries it's predominantly android. Even in big European countries like Germany and France iPhone ownership is very low. I understand that in developing countries android phones are favoured because the cost of iphones are too high. However in most European countries for example where most people can afford an iPhone if they wanted to they are choosing android phones because they feel thay offer better value.
There were markets in europe where windows mobile was top dog until Windows announced it's demise.
 
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