Apple Pay Apple Pay in Germany

[4254126]

I decided to give boon a second try… Look what they wrote:
"Sehr geehrter boon. Nutzer,
vielen Dank für Ihre E-Mail. Wir versuchen Ihr Anliegen so schnell wie möglich zu bearbeiten. Aufgrund des großen Erfolgs von boon. mit Apple Pay in Deutschland bitten wir Sie jedoch um viel Geduld.
Vielen Dank für Ihre Geduld und Ihr Verständnis.
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen jederzeit gerne zur Verfügung."

VIMpay is also inundated with support requests. In the PaymentAndBanking podcast yesterday, Jochen Siegert (a banking "insider" - who was also at the Apple Pay launch event in Munich) gave out the number of 50,000 card signups with Deutsche Bank, that was by the early afternoon.
That's not including all the other partners and the activations since. And I'm also certain Apple users are more likely to use it more regularly and across more services (+ online) than the Android counterparts.

Also very striking: The banks that support Apple Pay have stormed the charts and climbed into the Top 50 at the very least. boon. on 5, DKB on 7 (used to be 10-15), Deutsche Bank on 10 (used to be 15-20), N26 and bunq on 15 / 16 (used to be below the Top 25, bunq didn't even show up in the top 200 finance apps. comdirect and VIMpay have also climbed, while Volksbanken, Postbank, Commerzbank and ING have lost ground. Would love to see the numbers in a couple of months (activations, accounts opened, switchers).

I also read today that the Volksbanken so far have had (just) 50,000 activations of their Android solution! Puts things into perspective...

From my personal experience: DeuBa have already been in touch and apologised for a delay in opening an account. Seems I'm not the only one

What was it again that the reds said: "No once can get past us." Reading through social media and actually in discussion with some friends these past couple of days, lots of people (I'm not saying everyone) are looking to adding an Apple Pay enabled account. For others this is the last nail in the coffin of their disappointment with (sorry!) predominantly VR and SPK and they will be switchers. Apple is - if you like it or not - degrading banks to what mobile phone operators are now: You pick and choose the one with the best service and decide cheap <--> features and then off you go. The future is heading into the direction of "not just one bank account in your entire life".

 

[Mr-Fly]

Does not wonder me at all.
I believe that iOS users are more tentative to use Homebanking and banking as a whole on their devices. Android users always fear in my eyes security problems, that's why they all install virus scanners on their mobiles. Although that Android keeps getting better and better in security, I must admit. But they had a bad start and this keeps hanging in the brains.

 

[docfred]

@sir-hd you really have your private issues with these two groups, don't you?

next year at this time, no one even talks about this anymore and everybody is happy. bet?


PS: as mentioned before... don't rip quotes out of context. and this single sentence is way out of context.

 

[Nishko]

@sir-hd you really have your private issues with these two groups, don't you?

next year at this time, no one even talks about this anymore and everybody is happy. bet?


PS: as mentioned before... don't rip quotes out of context. and this single sentence is way out of context.

They are making really bad business development decisions though. Plus horrible PR work this week. You may be in favour of them and they have strongholds in some areas etc., but that doesn't reflect the current payment discussion at all.

We'll see if they will be able to win back ground in 10-12 months or if the challenger companies will remain top of wallet by then, as stated at payment & banking.

 

[kkrdvc]

Why is Revolut already listed under the banks that support Apple Pay? I know that you can top up your Revolut account with Apple Pay, but all the other apps in this App Store list are banks that support adding the card to the Wallet

 

[kkrdvc]

They are making really bad business development decisions though. Plus horrible PR work this week. You may be in favour of them and they have strongholds in some areas etc., but that doesn't reflect the current payment discussion at all.

We'll see if they will be able to win back ground in 10-12 months or if the challenger companies will remain top of wallet by then, as stated at payment & banking.

Funny enough, DSGV has even completely removed the press release from Tuesday from their website. Wonder what the reason could be haha
I don’t think it was a smart idea to be in talks with Apple on one side and then attacking them publically on the other one. That doesn’t sit right with any company.

 

[JulianGoesPro]

Why is Revolut already listed under the banks that support Apple Pay? I know that you can top up your Revolut account with Apple Pay, but all the other apps in this App Store list are banks that support adding the card to the Wallet

So I can use Revolut to get money from a friend that has Apple Pay active sort of like with Paypal just "easier"? Kind of like Apple Pay Cash then?

 

[kkrdvc]

So I can use Revolut to get money from a friend that has Apple Pay active sort of like with Paypal just "easier"? Kind of like Apple Pay Cash then?

Well, yeah. Your friend would then have to top up his Revolut account with the amount and then send it to you. Revolut allows a minimum of 10€ with card top ups though.

 

[JulianGoesPro]

Well, yeah. Your friend would then have to top up his Revolut account with the amount and then send it to you. Revolut allows a minimum of 10€ with card top ups though.

oh, okay, then I miss interpreted it... I had hoped "my friend" only needs Apple Pay working and I, the one wanting money, has to have Revolut, like I am the "shop"...

The idea was, I pay the entire bill, they send me money

 

[kkrdvc]

oh, okay, then I miss interpreted it... I had hoped "my friend" only needs Apple Pay working and I, the one wanting money, has to have Revolut, like I am the "shop"...

The idea was, I pay the entire bill, they send me money

Well is how it kind of works at bunq. You can create a bunq.me link with or without a predefined amount and the person can then pay you instantly with SOFORT. Sounds pretty handy, although I didn’t need to try it yet.

 

[JulianGoesPro]

Well is how it kind of works at bunq. You can create a bunq.me link with or without a predefined amount and the person can then pay you instantly with SOFORT. Sounds pretty handy, although I didn’t need to try it yet.

hm... link sounds not so cool anymore (sorry )... I think I can do that with paypal as well

So did I get this right? I can only use my own Apple Pay to top up my revolut account?

 

[kkrdvc]

hm... link sounds not so cool anymore (sorry )... I think I can do that with paypal as well

So did I get this right? I can only use my own Apple Pay to top up my revolut account?

If you let your friend log in with your Revolut account on his phone, then he can top it up as well.

But I get what you mean

 

[Focalor]

What was it again that the reds said: "No once can get past us." Reading through social media and actually in discussion with some friends these past couple of days, lots of people (I'm not saying everyone) are looking to adding an Apple Pay enabled account. For others this is the last nail in the coffin of their disappointment with (sorry!) predominantly VR and SPK and they will be switchers. Apple is - if you like it or not - degrading banks to what mobile phone operators are now

Well only in your tiny tech bubble. I could also tell you from my environment where nobody cares about AP (if they even know it), but lets just get the facts straight: When 80% of the transaction are still payed in cash and when even in big flagship stores like Saturn HH downtown cashiers recently say that only 1-2 customers/day pay with mobile, you have quite a good impression on how big the "impact" is.
Maybe Apple will be able to change it a little bit, we shall see after some time, but especially in Germany it will be at best nothing more than an additional option to pay.

BTW no offense, I like using AP (a bit annoyed by boon though and their (automatic) top up). Hope Consors joins in really soon.

 

[4254126]

Well only in your tiny tech bubble.

I wouldn't be too sure about that... I mean: It was even newsworthy enough for the Tagessschau.

I also don't know where you got that 80% figure from. Official statistics from the Bundesbank quote cash as a payment method in around 51% of transactions. Next year the assumption is that will be a few percent below 50%. EDIT: Handelsumsätze... I'm not talking about the 500€ you shove down the back of your plumbers pants.

And the rate of cash payment is actually higher in other EU countries. So although I know some feel like Germany (or the Sparkassen) are being bashed about in this thread (partly rightly so ), Germany isn't THAT backward.

 

[AlexSch91]

Funny enough, DSGV has even completely removed the press release from Tuesday from their website.

They also forgot to correct the Numbers: So now after "Pressemitteilung Nr. 53" comes "Pressemitteilung Nr. 55". So looks like a really quick and abrupt deletion of it. Last google cache found was Dec. 14th. 15:31.

Hope after visiting Munich Apple Pay VP J. Bailey took a plane to Berlin for some detailed conversations with DSGV.

Interessting:
After ANZ (in 2016) now CommBank will join Apple Pay in Australia in Jan. 2019.


https://twitter.com/CommBank/status/1073367238235676672


So from the former "big four" Australian Banks that unsuccessful tried together to sue Apple for opening NFC on iPhone now only two left! And because there were some serious australian reports about many people changing banks just because of Apple Pay I guess the third will follow little later and then the last bank has no chance to refuse!

 

[Chris-cross]

Well only in your tiny tech bubble. .....even in big flagship stores like Saturn HH downtown cashiers recently say that only 1-2 customers/day pay with mobile, you have quite a good impression on how big the "impact" is

<<<<

Today I bought many Christmas Gifts and I live in a "small" city in NRW, in my local Saturn they have an advertisement for AP and i wasn't able to pay with Amex via AP, and the cashier apologises more than once, cause normally should work and today i wasn't the first one.

HIT (Supermarkt) works fine and the customer behind me pay also with Apple Pay...I was really impressed...

Alnatura the cashier told me "glaub dass geht noch nicht bei uns" and BaBing ...it works....so he said "wow das ja cool"

But to be honest...I had small problems today.... Galeria Kaufland has problems with their "online-Anbindung" so every Card works only offline and you have to swipe it, so no ApplePay possible, and Globus wasn't possible to pay with Amex via ApplePay ...so there is a little bit to do....

Sure that's only ein Einzelfall but I think it become more and more familiar.....[/QUOTE]

 

[docfred]

I wouldn't be too sure about that... I mean: It was even newsworthy enough for the Tagessschau.

Even Google Pay was noticed. And no one uses it No new banks since start. No further news. No in the wild sight. Google Pay is as dead as everywhere on the planet

Apple Pay makes a much deeper impact. But it will not revolutionize payments in Germany. besides of our tech and payment bubble, people don't care that much. Fact. Not negative but fact.

Check figures and market share progress in a few months. Then we know, where the journey is going to.

Funny enough, DSGV has even completely removed the press release from Tuesday from their website. Wonder what the reason could be

haha
I don’t think it was a smart idea to be in talks with Apple on one side and then attacking them publically on the other one. That doesn’t sit right with any company.

As we said... there are things going on in the background. even if sir-hd denies it or does not believe it.

And I could imagine, that after the press staff released this statement (which did not sound discussed and committed) some other teams called the hierarchy up and down, what this **** is all about

We all know, that there are strict NDA if you are negotiating with Apple. There was no statement from DB, comdirect or any other bank before Tim made the announcement. And so it will be here. Which means: they could not state, that they are in negotiations. and they should not have released this ******** press release. they should have sticked with "we are considering options".

One thing to be considered:
FI would not implement the necessary APIs and improvements just for DKB. They have enough other things to do for the other nearly 400 customers. Just think about it...

They are making really bad business development decisions though. Plus horrible PR work this week. You may be in favour of them and they have strongholds in some areas etc., but that doesn't reflect the current payment discussion at all.

We'll see if they will be able to win back ground in 10-12 months or if the challenger companies will remain top of wallet by then, as stated at payment & banking.

The "current payment discussion" does not reflect reality out there at all. The big red S gained market share back, they did not lose customers in sum. And there are no signs, that this will change in 2018. why should it?
This is just reality on the banking market outside of our bubble.

On the one side they lose customers on the other side, they regained customers. Peoples focus change if their life changes. In the one decade, they want flexibility and no service. In the next decade they want stability and consulting.

They only have to worry not to lose the next generation after us. But this issue is addressed in development. new competitors come, others go. market shares are gained, market shares are lost. ongoing change.

 

[kkrdvc]

As we said... there are things going on in the background. even if sir-hd denies it or does not believe it.

And I could imagine, that after the press staff released this statement (which did not sound discussed and committed) some other teams called the hierarchy up and down, what this **** is all about

We all know, that there are strict NDA if you are negotiating with Apple. There was no statement from DB, comdirect or any other bank before Tim made the announcement. And so it will be here. Which means: they could not state, that they are in negotiations. and they should not have released this ******** press release. they should have sticked with "we are considering options".

One thing to be considered:
FI would not implement the necessary APIs and improvements just for DKB. They have enough other things to do for the other nearly 400 customers. Just think about it...

Yup, that press release was a huge mistake on their part or at least by the person who allowed it to be published.
If you don’t know, comdirect also posted a tweet at about 10am on Tuesday saying something in the means of „we‘re at almost 10,000 activations right now. Will we surpass it until lunch break?“ and not even 10 minutes later, they deleted the tweet. I can assure you that their CEO wasn’t amused, especially since he was in Munich with Jennifer Bailey and all of them
Apple is Apple when it comes to secrecy and rules - you could say that they are the incarnation of the German cliché.


Also, there’s without a doubt a high probability that at least someone from FI other than DKB will launch Apple Pay. My bet would be LBB (Amazon cc) and BW Bank LBBW.

 

[docfred]

BW Bank in April would be my bet too.
„Real“ Sparkassen following in autumn.

Apple wants access to half of the market, S wants something to offer their customers without being ripped off. So they will find a way good enough for both sides.

Patience is with the strong.

 

[kkrdvc]

My assumption would be that FI will be able to enable Apple Pay for credit cards in April hence DKB.
Sparkasse is lagging behind and not saying anything because they want and need to finish the implementation of Girocard and by that I mean Girocard Girocard not maestro or VPay. This is probably a headache of it’s own since the gc backend has not been touched for decades and their contactless implementation has as well been done „dirty“, according to some insiders.

 

[docfred]

That is something I also said a few days ago. And it makes sense. Implementation of MC/Visa until 4/19, half a year more planned for GC. Unfortunately they would not launch with CC in April with an announcement for GC later.

 

[Nishko]

My assumption would be that FI will be able to enable Apple Pay for credit cards in April hence DKB.
Sparkasse is lagging behind and not saying anything because they want and need to finish the implementation of Girocard and by that I mean Girocard Girocard not maestro or VPay. This is probably a headache of it’s own since the gc backend has not been touched for decades and their contactless implementation has as well been done „dirty“, according to some insiders.

I’m interested in reading on the dirty implementation of girocard kontaktlos, can you point me towards some sources on that story?

 

[kkrdvc]

I’m interested in reading on the dirty implementation of girocard kontaktlos, can you point me towards some sources on that story?

Well, I read about that months ago, so not really sure where exactly :/

 

[JulianGoesPro]

Well only in your tiny tech bubble. I could also tell you from my environment where nobody cares about AP (if they even know it), but lets just get the facts straight: When 80% of the transaction are still payed in cash and when even in big flagship stores like Saturn HH downtown cashiers recently say that only 1-2 customers/day pay with mobile, you have quite a good impression on how big the "impact" is.
Maybe Apple will be able to change it a little bit, we shall see after some time, but especially in Germany it will be at best nothing more than an additional option to pay.

BTW no offense, I like using AP (a bit annoyed by boon though and their (automatic) top up). Hope Consors joins in really soon.

I see the German Problem a bit differently... I mean your numbers are kind of “sad”, I know... but IMO why it isn’t taking of is because all the other options aren’t as cool and effortless as Apple Pay... so while most don’t feel the urge to try it, Apple Pay might have the power to make Germans change... and while you are right that Apple is not as big in DE as e.g. in the US, I would still think that Apple “guys” are more likely to spend quite some money using the new system.

Fun thing would be to see numbers form BMW or Audi if more android or iPhone users drive their cars

 

[TSMusik]

BW Bank in April would be my bet too.

Maybe, at least from the wording I got they seem to be negotiating right now:

Wir prüfen die Möglichkeiten von Mobile Payment für Apple-Nutzer, bitten aber um Verständnis, dass die Prüfung Zeit in Anspruch nimmt und wir aktuell keine weiteren Informationen geben können.