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Apple Pay Apple Pay in Germany
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I don't understand why Sparkassen are so intent on pushing for Girocard in mobile wallets: They get a much smaller share of the interchange, it doesn't support online payments (one of the main advantages of Apple Pay) and isn't supported by as many NFC terminals as MC/Visa. Why not just issue a MasterCard Debit (at least a virtual one). But there you go.
And I know you think I have some personal grudge against Sparkassen @docfred, but on the contrary: SPK / DSGV could really do a lot to push mobile payment (which in turn would help them reduce costs in expensive areas such as ATM branch coverage and cash exchange). They have a large customer base and some of the core basics are there.
Recently the rumour went around that they will be launching Apple Pay, but only with credit cards. Then on the day of the launch they publish a pathetic press release, which in return angers customers (and then leads to the press release getting deleted not even a week later - that's just a pathetic move). I had expected a much more professional and measured approach to all this. After all the big talk at the beginning it now seems they're playing along and are racing to do all the work behind the scenes. This could have been so different for them. Imagine if Sparkasse had signed an exclusive Apple Pay agreement (like with Itau in Brazil or BNP Paribas in Belgium)...
Banks of the future need to be agile and act, not react. Another bank that had to deal with backfiring PR was ING. They turned it around 180 and are now aboard the Apple Pay train.
And I know you think I have some personal grudge against Sparkassen @docfred, but on the contrary: SPK / DSGV could really do a lot to push mobile payment (which in turn would help them reduce costs in expensive areas such as ATM branch coverage and cash exchange). They have a large customer base and some of the core basics are there.
Recently the rumour went around that they will be launching Apple Pay, but only with credit cards. Then on the day of the launch they publish a pathetic press release, which in return angers customers (and then leads to the press release getting deleted not even a week later - that's just a pathetic move). I had expected a much more professional and measured approach to all this. After all the big talk at the beginning it now seems they're playing along and are racing to do all the work behind the scenes. This could have been so different for them. Imagine if Sparkasse had signed an exclusive Apple Pay agreement (like with Itau in Brazil or BNP Paribas in Belgium)...
Banks of the future need to be agile and act, not react. Another bank that had to deal with backfiring PR was ING. They turned it around 180 and are now aboard the Apple Pay train.
I wished the banks would just let the girocard die. I am paying contactless with my MasterCard since early 2015 with my secondary bank. My main bank only introduced nfc for MasterCard last year and girocard in October this year. My girocard expires in 2022 so I will only be able to pay contactless with my freakin girocard in 2023. Just let it die and replace it with debit MasterCard. It has so many advantages over girocard like being able to pay online, abroad and instantly for example. No one needs girocards.
A question for intense discussions ... is it really clever and a good idea to cut independent European or national solutions in favor for only American products?
I doubt it as populists rise everywhere and the US and UK proofed that they are not reliable partners at the moment.
You never know what happens in the next few years, so it’s not thaaaaat bad to have an alternative that is being developed further at least as a backup. Especially if this alternative has a market acceptance from over 90%
[doublepost=1544943247][/doublepost]
Exclusive access to Apple‘s services is expensive, I think. And I doubt that this pays off in the German market with low margins. And I speculate, that S wants GC from start, Apple did not want to wait another year and so it is how it is now.
This time next year, nobody cares. Just our payment bubble remembers.
I doubt it as populists rise everywhere and the US and UK proofed that they are not reliable partners at the moment.
You never know what happens in the next few years, so it’s not thaaaaat bad to have an alternative that is being developed further at least as a backup. Especially if this alternative has a market acceptance from over 90%
[doublepost=1544943247][/doublepost]
This would have been fun. And there were rumors around if you remember. Would have been fun at last to see all the „woohooo now I’m Fintech customer“ crying and yelling
Exclusive access to Apple‘s services is expensive, I think. And I doubt that this pays off in the German market with low margins. And I speculate, that S wants GC from start, Apple did not want to wait another year and so it is how it is now.
This time next year, nobody cares. Just our payment bubble remembers.
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Interesting - while paying with Apple Pay at the local Ikea store I had to additionaly sign my payment for payments below 25€ (e.g. restaurant). For the larger payment (480€), the usual way has been enough (no singing/no pin). Could just imagine that it's related to "verify" the owner on regular NFC cards since you could pay for 25€ with a stolen one. Maybe it's just a dedicated task on Ikea POS terminals.
A question for intense discussions ... is it really clever and a good idea to cut independent European or national solutions in favor for only American products?
I doubt it as populists rise everywhere and the US and UK proofed that they are not reliable partners at the moment.
You never know what happens in the next few years, so it’s not thaaaaat bad to have an alternative that is being developed further at least as a backup. Especially if this alternative has a market acceptance from over 90%
[doublepost=1544943247][/doublepost]
This would have been fun. And there were rumors around if you remember. Would have been fun at last to see all the „woohooo now I’m Fintech customer“ crying and yelling
Exclusive access to Apple‘s services is expensive, I think. And I doubt that this pays off in the German market with low margins. And I speculate, that S wants GC from start, Apple did not want to wait another year and so it is how it is now.
This time next year, nobody cares. Just our payment bubble remembers.
Please, spare us from your conspiracy talks. If you trust the German government so much, stay in your Soros box, but leave spare freedom-loving people.
Besides, this is about Apple Pay and not about conspiracy theories.
Ikea seems to not have updated all of their terminals. The ones at checkout are updated (to support CDCVM - card authentication on end-user device) but the ones at the restaurants are not . Pretty stupid.
Well, when I used Apple Pay with French boon., it was already like that - every time I bought something in the IKEA restaurant, the payment device would tell me to sign.
Today I heard the Payment and Fintech podcast while jogging in the snow. Thanks for the tip! Great discussion about AP and the theoretical impact it could have. I‘m on the side that I think too it won‘t have big changes on the cash side because Apple is too niche here.
They also discussed on how the strategy of Sparkasse should have been done or could be favored for. They should at least got their mastercards in. In my opinion they should‘ve gone in negotiations for the GC support and would‘ve instantly gotten full e-commerce support using AP with their GC. That would be so huge because they‘re not getting any of that money right now, right?
I don‘t get their DSGV people.
They also discussed on how the strategy of Sparkasse should have been done or could be favored for. They should at least got their mastercards in. In my opinion they should‘ve gone in negotiations for the GC support and would‘ve instantly gotten full e-commerce support using AP with their GC. That would be so huge because they‘re not getting any of that money right now, right?
I don‘t get their DSGV people.
Well then how about a european payment system that works not only in Germany. Like mastercard or visa. Credit and debit cards that work all over europe and for the non-eu market they could still co badge them with maestro or whatever. Something like this would be much better than every country having its own payment solution. But of course this would cost a lot of money and will to even try to acomplish something like this.
Btw I do think that we will see more and more people in the near future switching from cash to card or mobile payment just for the simple reason that more and more banks add high fees for cash withdrawal. I recently read a interesting article where different banks stated once again how expensive cash is and how "annoying" it is for them that customers just withdraw small amounts of cash. Thats why they add those high fees for cash withdrawals to force people paying with card or mobile solutions.
And I want to share my wifes unpleasent experience with her N26 account. Once again someone tried to make a payment with her card trying to commit fraud. Luckily her card was deactivated on no money was on the account. But it is frightening how often it happens lately to people in my family or friends that have to deal with such situations. My wife didnt use the card for over a year now and before that only a couple of times. So I wonder how people got hands on her account informations. Same happened to my once with N26 and my sister as well. No problems with bunq so far even though I am using that card on all of my trips across the world. Only once had problems with my Sparda credit card a few years ago. Anyone else having problems of those kind with N26?
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No problems so far with N26 here. Opened the account 6 months ago. But I‘m only using it as a consuming account. Also I‘ve got to mention that I‘m not using the credit card for online e-commerce payments because I don‘t trust lousy shops handling my creditcard data.
Same with a friend of mine. Never used his N26 and there is now a O2 Mobile Phone contract over his N26 account. He has all the work around this and even got the costs from N26 because there was not enough money on the account (Rücklastschriftgebühr).
I really believe more and more that they lost data.
Holy moly, 4chan has arrived, i had to make an account just for this one, hilarious.
Anyway
I had the experience that no matter what sum i payed on tuesday in Ikea, i had to sign on their self checkout terminals.
Tradfri 150€ and again 10€ because i forgot something.
Went to a wine store to buy somehing, 60€ went through no problem without signing or pinning.
Tried to close my account with them 3 weeks ago after waiting around 45 min to chat with somebody. But no response from them until today, absolutely unbelievable what they are doing.
You have to write an email saying the magic words „article 17 GDPR“
your account will be gone the next day.
Yeah but what‘s the best alternative? N26 has a banking license, free MC, upto 5 free cash withdrawals per month, no fees for outside euro payments. And that for free! It‘s just a good offer besides their problems atm. But keep in mind banking license and your money is secure.
Best free bank in my eyes is still the DKB. No Payment costs even outside the EU, Get money anywhere also feee around the world (Local ATM Teller Fees are charged by the bank kn the country you take the money, not the DKB).
They will get ApplePay soon and until then take Boon.
call it "historisch gewachsen". europe is not one state. some have their own solutions, some dropped the own networks in favor for maestro/MasterCard. Some are not happy anymore with this decision.
An European competitor would be the best way. But I doubt, that this is going to happen. Try to get at least a dozen countries and about 2000 banks on one table to discuss how such a network should look and work like
sad enough but true. No such experiences but I'm using N26 just to play around and follow their development. Did not much with the N26 card.
Mh ok. DKB sounds great too will take a look thanks!
bunq seems great especially the community friendly development but no way I‘m gonna pay 8€/month sorry. Tops 3-4€.
call it "historisch gewachsen". europe is not one state. some have their own solutions, some dropped the own networks in favor for maestro/MasterCard. Some are not happy anymore with this decision.
An European competitor would be the best way. But I doubt, that this is going to happen. Try to get at least a dozen countries and about 2000 banks on one table to discuss how such a network should look and work like
I think that the best solution would be to combine the French CB Carte Bancaire and girocard to form a basis for a paneuropean solution. CB is already so developed that it basically has all the feature Mastercard and Visa offer, hence the possibility of cobadging CB with both of those schemes. CB supports online payments with 3DS and everything else, basically the perfect solution for Europe.
I think this http://www.cartes-bancaires.com/sit...idification_des_paiements_cb_en_ecommerce.pdf is the best example that this is the only European solution capable of providing the same level of comfort as Visa and Mastercard do.
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Which independent solutions do you mean?
I don't know a single one.
ApplePay got annouced first 4 years ago. Google Pay/Samsung Pay were not far behind. But nobody remembers: Microsoft announced a wallet in Windows Phone 7 for contactless payment earlier than the others. But they did not bring ist to the customers, like many other things they developed.
All this time was enough time for the europeans to bring something own, which is open for everyone and is useable not only in a small sandbox.
But they did absolutely nothing. Again.
This is the primary reason for the big success of PayPal and it will be the reason why solutions like Apple Pay, Google Pay and maybe Samsung Pay will get to the same level as PayPal.