Apple Pay Apple Pay in Germany

[Schwabe85]

And the next news about Google Pay for Germany.
https://www.googlewatchblog.de/2018/05/google-pay-android-app/

I hope this is also a sign for a start of Apple Pay in June.

 

[docfred]

At least it is a sign against "german banks don't want to support these services"

 

[wSchabby]

It's not necessarily a good sign for Apple Pay in Germany. For example Google Pay started November 2016 in Poland. So it took Apple 2 years to announce their service in Poland after GPay started. Apple is doing what they want and they are starting their service whenever they want. I don't think they make it dependent from a GPay start

 

[Schwabe85]

Hm crap.

Will Apple Pay beat Duke Nukem? It’s done, when it’s done.

 

[BSben]

At least it is a sign against "german banks don't want to support these services"

Considering how long it took, it actually proves that point. Apple Pay has been around for years and Google Pay is no spring chicken either anymore. The German banking system is slow to adapt, the newcomers like N26 are the future.

 

[nordmaler]

Macrumors:

"Apple Pay launched in Ukraine today. Owners of Apple devices in the country this morning found that they could add credit cards to the mobile payment system, including MasterCard and Visa (via Tehnot).

Ukraine's finance minister Oleksandr Danyliuk took to Facebook to herald the launch, which initially supports cards issued by the country's nationalized PrivatBank, with Oschadbank expected to follow soon."

 

[4254126]

Macrumors:

"Apple Pay launched in Ukraine today. Owners of Apple devices in the country this morning found that they could add credit cards to the mobile payment system, including MasterCard and Visa (via Tehnot).

Ukraine's finance minister Oleksandr Danyliuk took to Facebook to herald the launch, which initially supports cards issued by the country's nationalized PrivatBank, with Oschadbank expected to follow soon."

I can picture it: Olaf Scholz announces Apple Pay live on Tagesschau on the eve of WWDC

 

[SenileBooster]

At least it is a sign against "german banks don't want to support these services"

You know there is a very distinctive differences between ApplePay and GooglePay? Handling of customer data and fees.

Google doesn’t charge for its service and will most likely share data it obtaines with the banks.

Apple does the direct opposite. It charges for the service and will absolutely not share any data about the usage with anyone.

Of course banks will jump boat in favor of GooglePay instead of ApplePay and continue to give a damn freaking freak about what their customers with Apple devices want.

 

[docfred]

Banks don’t need any data from Apple or Google. They get afaik the same data they would get of the customer just uses his card.

Where was the purchase done, when was it done and what amount.

 

[SenileBooster]

Banks don’t need any data from Apple or Google. They get afaik the same data they would get of the customer just uses his card.

Where was the purchase done, when was it done and what amount.

You are right insofar.
So let me rephrase the whole personal data security thingy...Apple anonymise the relevant user data and will not build a profile around your spending behavior and is not even able to build such by its own decision about how the data is handled. That is a win in my book as a customer.
And there is one thing for sure, Google is more than willing and able to use those data to monetize them in one or the other way. And one way maybe to cuddle something up with the banks.

So Bank loves Google and is suspicious about Apple. Period.

 

[docfred]

As I said. Apple or Google do not have any data, that banks don‘t have already. They can not share anything the payment service providers and banks do not know themselfs.

Sorry, bad theory.

 

[SenileBooster]

As I said. Apple or Google do not have any data, that banks don‘t have already. They can not share anything the payment service providers and banks do not know themselfs.

Sorry, bad theory.

You don’t think Google doesn’t know more about you then your Provinz Sparkasse, do you?
There is much more then simple payment data. And you can bet your bank would love to know those things too. Big data and how to leverage them the right way is what thrives.
But wait, we are talking about German banks here so you may be right and the whole thing is plain simple Neuland to them.

 

[docfred]

So. Explain... what kind of user data has Google about the done payment that they could share? I‘m very interested.

 

[SenileBooster]

So. Explain... what kind of user data has Google about the done payment that they could share? I‘m very interested.

I have the impression you don’t want to see my point here. Take a step back, let lose your fixation to raw payment data. To Google you are so much more then that. Your spending behavior is just one tiny piece. Look at it as isolated as you do here there is not much about it.
But start knitting it with all the other tiny things Google knows about you then that is something.
And if your answer happens to be „yadda yadda but the banks doesn’t want to know, they know all they want and Google has nothing to offer to them yadda yadda“ then I don’t know what else to say.

 

[docfred]

I think you don't have a point here at all as you are mixing up things that don't belong together and presume things and behavior that is not happening. You are constructing a wild theory without any proof or indication. Your theory at this point is "Google shares private data beyond necessary data exchange for the payment without our knowledge".

So... tell us some reliable evidence or stop "yadda yadda yadda ... apple is good, google and banks are evil ... yadda yadda yadda" (in your own words).

 

[SenileBooster]

I think you don't have a point here at all as you are mixing up things that don't belong together and presume things and behavior that is not happening. You are constructing a wild theory without any proof or indication. Your theory at this point is "Google shares private data beyond necessary data exchange for the payment without our knowledge".

So... tell us some reliable evidence or stop "yadda yadda yadda ... apple is good, google and banks are evil ... yadda yadda yadda" (in your own words).

Google will use all the data it can gather to support its business. And it’s business is targeted advertisement. And it will eventually sell those ads to who ever is willing to pay. Google the TaC of Google (pun intended). And if the banks are willing to pay they will be able to supplement their own data with the data collected by Google.

Apple won’t sell out its users. And that’s no question of ApplePay vs GooglePay. That’s a question of very different business cases.

 

[docfred]

Now you are shifting your theory and editing your statement

You said:

will most likely share data it obtaines with the banks.

And that would be the reason, banks will support Google Pay and not Apple Pay.


And that is nonsense, because Google does not share any data at all with others, they sell ads they can target because of the knien profiles. But they neither share nor sell the data of These profiles. Especially not at Google Pay.

Or do you have any evidence that backs your theory?

 

[SenileBooster]

Now you are shifting your theory and editing your statement

You said:

And that would be the reason, banks will support Google Pay and not Apple Pay.


And that is nonsense, because Google does not share any data at all with others, they sell ads they can target because of the knien profiles. But they neither share nor sell the data of These profiles. Especially not at Google Pay.

Or do you have any evidence that backs your theory?

OMG. It is simply of no value for the discussion if Google sales data directly, what it does not or if it sells ads.
The case is the same. The user is the product. And it is not only about the (maybe remote) possibility of our o so innovative banks buying those. It’s about merchants as well and so on and so forth. I simply do not want to waste my time arguing here with you.

You have your opinion and I have mine. You want me to present you hard evidences but you can’t produce such in your favor as well.

So let’s just deal with it.

 

[docfred]

I don't have to provide any evidence as I did not come up with such a theory

You said, literally, that Google sells/shares data to/with banks. No they only sell ads (to everyone). Not just a small change of your predication. No, "the case" is not "the same".

yeah, let's deal with it.

 

[MLVC]

My God, could you two get a room already? My 2 cents are that I don't trust Google a single bit and I wouldn't be surprised if they use your payment data to target you with ads. But that's just a gut feeling, and there's no point having endless discussions about it. Now if you do want to have an endless discussion about it, take it private so the rest doesn't need to plow through it, searching for any relevant information.

 

[docfred]

My 2 cents are that I don't trust Google a single bit and I wouldn't be surprised if they use your payment data to target you with ads.

This is something I totally sign. But it is not, what he claimed that's the point.

 

[Alanin]

As I know Google pay just works like using ur own card directly. So the shop can track u and the bank knows where ur shopping...

But Apple Pay is tokenising everything and the shop owner just knows that someone payed using Apple Pay but can’t track the user and the bank just know that the customer used Apple Pay but cannot track the shops u payed at...
[doublepost=1526926415][/doublepost]But can be wrong on this...

 

[Mr-Fly]

Looks like you are, Wikipedia states that it uses tokens instead of Credit Card Data:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Pay

 

[docfred]

The Discover FAQ on Apple Pay says, that the payments on the billing statement are tagged with „Apple Pay“ followed by the merchants name. So I think the point of sale is known.
[doublepost=1526928883][/doublepost]Well... there are a lot boon users. What does the wirecard bill look like? What information shows the boon. app?

 

[MLVC]

The Discover FAQ on Apple Pay says, that the payments on the billing statement are tagged with „Apple Pay“ followed by the merchants name. So I think the point of sale is known.
[doublepost=1526928883][/doublepost]Well... there are a lot boon users. What does the wirecard bill look like? What information shows the boon. app?

The Bunq app shows the merchant and Apple Pay