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Apple Pay Apple Pay in Germany

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AlexSch91

macrumors member
Feb 7, 2018
61
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Does that have something in common with this twitter post where Sparkasse said, that starting 2019 all Girocards will have the contactless v pay and maestro procedure. Or does that only count for the contactless thing in the physical card?

https://twitter.com/sparkasse/status/958264047203487744
Or what is the point with that twitter post?

Small Off topic:
For example in Mcdonalds and these public toilets (sanifair) etc. where I can use my Apple Watch (because of mastercard) there doesn´t work the contactless girocard because that terminal don´t support it. Will the same terminals work in 2019 with these new girocards with v pay and maestro as mentioned on twitter?


And btw:
My Sparkasse yesterday disabled my creditcard because of many "suspicious" bookings that happened over a long period and with in total high amounts. After many calls it turned out that these are the Auto-Top Up bookings for my Apple Pay Boon Account, that only exists because Sparkasse don´t support Apple Pay yet. How ironic....o_Oo_O
Now they send me a new one and I guess I can spend a lot of time changing all the online accounts to that new credit card. Thanks Sparkasse... :(
 
docfred

docfred

macrumors 6502a
Feb 4, 2018
938
573
Germany
repeating bookings in different amounts from one or two service providers is sign for a potential creditcard fraud. that's nothing special and something wirecard has to deal with from the beginning. And it is questionable if MasterCard themselfes disabled your card or contract partner, your bank.

I'm wondering, why you get a "new" card. Cards can be re-enabled with some klicks.

AlexSch91 said:
For example in Mcdonalds and these public toilets (sanifair) etc. where I can use my Apple Watch (because of mastercard) there doesn´t work the contactless girocard because that terminal don´t support it. Will the same terminals work in 2019 with these new girocards with v pay and maestro as mentioned on twitter?
Click to expand...
not neccessarily. One of the bakeries here, that support card payments for example accept GiroCards, Visa and MasterCard, but NFC payment only by VISA and MasterCard because of exclusive contracts for one year. Terminals and the servie provider would accept contactless GiroCard also.
 
A

AlexSch91

macrumors member
Feb 7, 2018
61
40
docfred said:
repeating bookings in different amounts from one or two service providers is sign for a potential creditcard fraud. that's nothing special and something wirecard has to deal with from the beginning. And it is questionable if MasterCard themselfes disabled your card or contract partner, your bank.

I'm wondering, why you get a "new" card. Cards can be re-enabled with some klicks.
Click to expand...

Today I got an letter from BCS (Bayern Card Services). They are the creditcard service center from my local sparkasse (not located in Bavarian). They write that they got hints about creditcard fraud. And my sparkasse told me that it´s about the top-up payments.

And I´m also wondering why they will send me a new card. I´m currently still "investigating" about this thing.
 
B

basti_no

macrumors regular
Sep 28, 2017
112
58
Tobsen said:
https://twitter.com/pingwinator/status/1006053439787421697

This would mean, that wie have to wait for iOS12?
Click to expand...


Well I guess so. The problem with most of the Giro- and Vpay cards is, that they don't have a number like credit cards. So it makes it difficult to add them in the wallet app because they can't be identified when you scan them. Of course it would be possible to add them via the app from the bank but I could imagine Apple doesn't want to offer that option only.
 
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4254126

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basti_no said:
Well I guess so. The problem with most of the Giro- and Vpay cards is, that they don't have a number like credit cards. So it makes it difficult to add them in the wallet app because they can't be identified when you scan them. Of course it would be possible to add them via the app from the bank but I could imagine Apple doesn't want to offer that option only.
Click to expand...
Again as mentioned before, it's not really a problem - it's already been solved!

Many banks ONLY offer you to add the card to Wallet through their banking app (in the UK Monzo, Starling and in the EU N26, boon and bunq come to mind). How else do you want to add your bunq maestro card to Wallet without any identification details on the card apart from your account IBAN? With no physical card adding through an authenticated app is the only option for boon! So it's not really that "new".

Commerzbank/SPK or whoever might jump on board with Apple Pay just needs to include a digitalised version of your debit card in-app and give you the option to add it to Apple Pay. Payment systems are updated regularly, so we wouldn't really need to wait for iOS 12. Apple added Interac (CA), cartes bancaires (FR) and Suica (JP) including systems for transportation in China in (sub-) iOS updates. If everyone pulled together, we could have this function in a couple of weeks.

I think the launch of Google Pay in Germany is more relevant than we might think: For a large German bank (Commerzbank) to come out, NOT come up with their own mobile payment system and tag along with a US tech giant to compete with the SPK and VoBa launch of Girocard mobile is significant. It might not have the mass appeal at first, but it's a definite ice breaker.
 
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basti_no

macrumors regular
Sep 28, 2017
112
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sir-hd said:
Again as mentioned before, it's not really a problem - it's already been solved!

Many banks ONLY offer you to add the card to Wallet through their banking app (in the UK Monzo, Starling and in the EU N26, boon and bunq come to mind). How else do you want to add your bunq maestro card to Wallet without any identification details on the card apart from your account IBAN? With no physical card adding through an authenticated app is the only option for boon! So it's not really that "new".

Commerzbank/SPK or whoever might jump on board with Apple Pay just needs to include a digitalised version of your debit card in-app and give you the option to add it to Apple Pay. Payment systems are updated regularly, so we wouldn't really need to wait for iOS 12. Apple added Interac (CA), cartes bancaires (FR) and Suica (JP) including systems for transportation in China in (sub-) iOS updates. If everyone pulled together, we could have this function in a couple of weeks.

I think the launch of Google Pay in Germany is more relevant than we might think: For a large German bank (Commerzbank) to come out, NOT come up with their own mobile payment system and tag along with a US tech giant to compete with the SPK and VoBa launch of Girocard mobile is significant. It might not have the mass appeal at first, but it's a definite ice breaker.
Click to expand...

Well I just checked a few of your banks you mentioned and the ones I found all offer the possibility to add the physical card via scan in the wallet app. Boon is the exception, since there is no physical card.
 
docfred

docfred

macrumors 6502a
Feb 4, 2018
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Germany
i don't think small numbers at the bottom of the card could be a problem at all. for adding the card by camera, the participating banks just have to define, where on the card what information is to find.

you have to consider, these high profile printed numbers in the middle of the cards are a remaining leftover of the time, US cards had to be carbon copied to be charged. something modern european debit cards dropped nearly two decades ago.
 
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4254126

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basti_no said:
Well I just checked a few of your banks you mentioned and the ones I found all offer the possibility to add the physical card via scan in the wallet app. Boon is the exception, since there is no physical card.
Click to expand...
Yes, some do. I was focusing on banks that promote the adding through the app.

Where you’re wrong is that it is only boon: there are other banks with the specific card payment networks that require adding it in another way than in Wallet. With bunq you can only add your MasterCard via Wallet. The maestro needs to be added via the bunq app. There is no other way. So no, not only boon.
 
S

SenileBooster

macrumors regular
Jan 31, 2018
128
118
Deutschland
Account number etc on GiroCards are not the problem here.
Girocard may be a debit card but you can’t compare it to Maestro for example.
Technically it’s a whole other story.
Yes your account is directly debited if you pay with your card. That is what you see. The clearance of that transaction in the background is the problem here. And maybe all the other small differences.

I don’t know if this maybe part of the problem with ApplePay but it well could be.
 
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SenileBooster

macrumors regular
Jan 31, 2018
128
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Deutschland
docfred said:
What should be the problem of the clearance?
Click to expand...

It is a special kind of the o so beloved very special german ELV. The Girocard is it’s own kind of debit card. And as I already said I do not know if this is a problem by itself.
And sure there eventually will be a solution to incorporate the Girocard into ApplePay.
 
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4254126

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Strange. I remember reading an article about the technical background (but maybe we'll hear more about it next week on the 13th at the DK-Conference and official introduction of the mobile Girocard): It will use the same tokenisation that is used for Apple Pay transactions. If Apple were able to connect Apple Pay to that Girocard system, then it could - theoretically - be easily adapted to support it. I'm just not sure who has the total oversight over Girocard on the whole. I also don't know if ie. Commerzbank could come along and say: "We want Girocard to connect to Apple Pay" and the systems could be easily adapted...

EDIT: Here is the link for the agenda next week... some interesting stuff on there... https://die-dk.de/media/files/180606__DK_Infoveranstaltung_2018_vorl_Agenda.pdf
 
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SenileBooster

macrumors regular
Jan 31, 2018
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Deutschland
docfred said:
Electronic Cash/GiroCard has nothing to do with ELV. These are two seperate payment variants.
Click to expand...

As far as the payment methods go you are right.
But Girocard transactions are cleared by a special „intern“ kind of b2b ELV, it’s just a technical thing. And those kind of OLV/ELV has nothing to do with the b2c ELV.
 
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docfred

docfred

macrumors 6502a
Feb 4, 2018
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Ok, if this is so ... I don't think, this is a problem for Apple Pay, because Apple Pay would jump in the process way before the internal clearance, wouldn't it? And, please correct me if I'm wrong, at least the NFC payment variant of GiroCard is tokenized too? So, all Apple would need to get is the final clearance of the payment network behind? How the payment network works in the background does not bother Apple.
 
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4254126

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MichaelDuCoudray said:
at least for my apple watch - i remember adding the maestro card through the wallet - not via app
Click to expand...

Once a card has been added to iPhone, you can easily add with a tap on the Watch app. The first time you add the card (usually through the iPhone) you will have to go through the bunq app.
 
MichaelDuCoudray

MichaelDuCoudray

macrumors member
Feb 1, 2018
32
16
yeah i know - but for some reason my bunq app told me that i had wrong region settings on my watch (and i tried whataever to change it - but it didn't work) so i needed to add it manually
 
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