Apple Pay Apple Pay in Germany

[Alanin]

Na, don’t think its that offtopic. We are discussing the denial of Sparkasse for Apple Pay an the demand of an open nfc chip.

On the other hand they close up their atms to other banks. Even they are not allowed to do that.

 

[Mr-Fly]

Aha. Your VISA card is being rejected by ATMs?

For me:
Local Volksbank refuses the visa and local Sparkasse limits to 100€.

 

[AlexSch91]

And from the 2020s onwards you won't see Girocard contactless only terminals, as they must accept all schemes.

Would also be interested in this regulation. Can you give us a link or information?
Couldn´t find that on google so far.

 

[docfred]

Never had experienced any problems in withdrawing money from S-ATMs with bmw DKB Visa back then.

 

[4254126]

Would also be interested in this regulation. Can you give us a link or information?
Couldn´t find that on google so far.

My mistake. Was writing in a spare moment and didn't pay attention. The regulation is regarding terminals supporting MasterCard/Visa: They will need to support NFC from 2022.

 

[jokant]

Maybe another topic that I am personally very excited about: Apple Pay Cash. Since we know we are getting Apple Pay in Germany, there is another thing we can desperately wait for.

At the moment it is only available in the United States. Some users in UK, Ireland and Spain saw this option popping up, however, nothing happened since then. It was pointed out Apple is due to PSD2 not allowed to charge anything. In the US there is a 3% fee when using credit card.....only debit cards are free.

So what do you think: will we see Apple Pay Cash in Europe/Germany anytime soon or do we have to wait another 4 years?

 

[Karma_isA_8itch]

I personally don’t care about Apple Pay cash. Since sepa instant transfers are rolling out and many more banks are going to join that standard I don’t see that much of a use case for Apple Pay cash. Yeah sure it’s easy to sent money to friends instantly but that will be possible with probably every bank I’m the near future. I’ll surely wouldnt use APC to top up and pay in shops since you have Apple Pay for that.

 

[jokant]

I personally don’t care about Apple Pay cash. Since sepa instant transfers are rolling out and many more banks are going to join that standard I don’t see that much of a use case for Apple Pay cash. Yeah sure it’s easy to sent money to friends instantly but that will be possible with probably every bank I’m the near future. I’ll surely wouldnt use APC to top up and pay in shops since you have Apple Pay for that.

Many banks charge you for using instant payment. I don't see many people paying for it when you just want to send some money to a friend.
Next thing is you need the IBAN of your friend. That is quite inconvenient in my opinion.
Anyhow, it was my understanding Sparkasse is pushing its own App Kwitt for P2P payment.

I agree instant payment has huge potential. Make it free. Combine it with your phone so your friend needs only you phone number. I am afraid many banks will do so in a few years when other solutions are already market standards. I think they miss an opportunity. So no, instant payment won't be something people will use on a regular basis between friends.

 

[docfred]

The only market relevant instant payment option is PayPal.

- Kwitt was dead, is dead and will be dead
- for Apple Pay Cash the market share of iOS in most EU markets is too low
- PayDirekt will offer p2p payments (with free choosen Username) but you need a bank that supports PayDirekt
- Instant transfers from your bank account need support on both sides and some banks think it is a good idea to charge fees for such a service *bhott*

-> PayPal. At least 15 years ahead of the competition, available on any platform and a lot of people already have an account



BTW: PayPal is an example for pressure for innovation in the US because of terrible financial services. Money transfers between states were often forbidden or took several days and cost a lot of money.

 

[Karma_isA_8itch]

If sepa instant transfers are done right that’s the future. Of course the banks need to implement it and I don’t think all banks are going to charge you for it. Just look at bunq every transaction is sent as instant transfer if the receiving bank supports it and they do it for free. This whole thing with the fees is ridiculous anyways ... I can understand if you pay a fee if you sent but not if you receive. And what I am wondering is that nobody sees how much harm can be done with some of those instant transfers - again Sparkasse sorry to bring them up again but well they are just begging for it - if you have to pay like 50 cents even for incoming transactions. Imagine some dude keeps sending you 0.01 Euro instant transactions and he is using a free provider like bunq and you have to pay for every incoming transaction 50 cents. You will lose 49 cents per incoming transactions do that a couple of times and well you get the point ...

And I still don’t see any value in Apple Pay cash since it is limited to iOS users and messages. Most of the people I know have androids and not iPhones. And from those who actually have iPhones there are really lot of people that don’t even know how messages works and are just using WhatsApp. Apple Pay cash has a too small user base i think and the use case is too narrowed down. Like I said before using it as a method to pay stuff doesn’t make sense for me cause that’s what Apple Pay is for. So it leaves you with the possibility to sent money to your friends ... but only iOS users and only if they are actually using messages. And since you need to authenticate yourself via ID I’m vers sure that 99 % of the people wouldnt even consider doing that ... privacy etc.

I loved paypal but I quit using them about two years ago. I have had so much trouble for them randomly locking down my account and freezing my money on my account that i just got sick of it. This is no company I will ever again trust my money with. I have to say that because my wife’s family is living in Russia we used PayPal to sent money to Russia using said service. And well they kept locking me out of my account and actually freezing hundreds or even thousands of euros for an extended period of time. Never again.

I really like the idea of paydirekt though. Even if the receiving bank does not support it you can sent money to people via paydirekt now actually. You just need a phone number or email where you sent the money too. The person who receives the money will have to enter a code into the app and enter his iban and after one or two days the person is getting the money. The only problem I have with paydirekt is that it is not spread widely in online shops. And well i don’t like that you have to register for it. It should automatically come with your bank account I think. Banks have your name and email or phone number anyway so why not just go to step further and connect it directly with your bank account. That way paydirekt could actually become a viable choice in Germany.

 

[4254126]

And well i don’t like that you have to register for it. It should automatically come with your bank account I think.

No way. And many banks have got their fingers slapped for that practice without consent.

I think Apple Pay Cash for the Eurozone is on the horizon. Apple needs a decent partner and they could roll it out very quickly.

 

[Mr-Fly]

What I hate about instant payment is that they try to make money with it.
Hey, we are doing online transaction, why the hell do they take longer then some seconds anyhow? I would expect it to be standard in the modern banking that transactions at least inside one country should work instantly! But not to make a big show of it and take money to do so.
And with bunq, hey you already pay enough a month, they want to be modern, there you go.
But let's face it, how often do you need a service like instant payment?
Not to get you buddy the money he lent you for a dinner?

 

[Karma_isA_8itch]

I think Apple Pay Cash for the Eurozone is on the horizon. Apple needs a decent partner and they could roll it out very quickly.

Like i said I really don’t see a usecase for this in Germany. It has too less value and too much limitation. It serves only one function to sent money from one private person to another private person. And it being for iOS users only is just a huge bummer.
[doublepost=1533497741][/doublepost]

And with bunq, hey you already pay enough a month, they want to be modern, there you go.

Not like all the other banks you already pay loads of money to are offering the service... I mean it’s almost a year now that the new standard is available and only two banks managed to enable that feature. Not even N26 offers it yet ... bunq was one of the very first banks to implement it and at least they are not charging extra. And for those of you still whine about the 7.99 ... just look what other banks charge you. If 7.99 make or break you I guess you have other things to worry about than instant payments.

 

[docfred]

It‘s not what a bank account costs. It‘s what it delivers for the price. And that’s nothing for 8€/month (not even a real credit card). We discussed it earlier in this thread.

My bank account is free, instant money transfer is free also. Why change to bunq?

Wait, one thing to say: i would rather go for bunq than for N26 black
[doublepost=1533501486][/doublepost]Ps: bunq or N26 don’t offer joint accounts, do they?

Well bunq has several accounts in one and you can get three cards. But is it possible to order one of these cards on the name of your partner?

 

[oohh]

Ps: bunq or N26 don’t offer joint accounts, do they?

Well bunq has several accounts in one and you can get three cards. But is it possible to order one of these cards on the name of your partner?

N26 does not offer joint accounts at the moment. However, last year they stated that they were developing this.

bunq does offer joint accounts, you can make a joint account in a matter of seconds - with anyone you like And its also possible to link someone else’s card to your account. I dont have a joint account, but I do have my girlfriend’s card linked to my account to pay for the groceries. You cannot have one of your own cards in someone else’s name though.

I am currently still on the old plan, for which you pay 4 cents for each transaction. The only drawback is that you won’t get the new features (like joint accounts, Apple Pay, etc.)

 

[docfred]

Is it really a joint account or do you speak about two accounts, that are linked somehow? Which would mean, that my wife and myself would need two 8€/month accounts for using Apple Pay?

 

[Karma_isA_8itch]

Is it really a joint account or do you speak about two accounts, that are linked somehow? Which would mean, that my wife and myself would need two 8€/month accounts for using Apple Pay?

It is a real joint account you can choose whether you want a to create a normal account or a joint Account. Takes just 5 seconds.

https://together.bunq.com/d/196-open-your-joint-andor-accounts-in-just-a-few-seconds

About the cards you cannot order a card specifically for a family member but you can add the name you wish on the card description. And you can decide how you want your name to be displayed for example max Martin Mustermann. Instead they can print m. M. Mustermann or just Mustermann on the card. So it is Great for family’s that have the same name since you can remove the first name no one cares if it is your card or not.

Bunq even allows people to share the cards with friends and family. They even advertised this „share your cards with friends and family“ on the website and support still says it’s ok to do so so no problem at all.

Still I think bunq offers more than any other bank out there ... just go and try it one month is free nothing to loose.
[doublepost=1533536607][/doublepost]But you still need two accounts because your wife needs to be verified of course as well. But you can make a free account for her, give her one of your cards print her name on the description field and just the last name on the card it self. Share the joint account with your wife so she sees the balance of the account. Or you just add one of your cards to your wife’s wallet and she has Apple Pay too. Since you have three physical cards hoch can all be added to Apple Pay and one virtuel card and each card can be connected to four devices you can simply add one to her wallet and you are good to go.

Or just go for premium pay 20 euros per month get two other people to join you which makes it 5 euros per person per month.

And those people who say bunq delivers nothing for 8 euros. A couple of pages earlier I wrote down what they offer. Seems some people didn’t even take time to look at it otherwise they wouldn’t keep repeating the same non sense over and over again. And same goes for the not real credit card. Yeah it’s a debit card who cares. I did not once run into problems with it. I travel a lot that means lots of flights and hotels need to be booked and cars to be rented and every single time my bunq card works just fine.

What does bunq offer

 

[docfred]

Hmm. I searched a little bit on twitter about this topic at N26... they are "working" on joint accounts since 2015. And they call other banks "slow"....

Bunq at least has some sort of workaround. Though I don't like, that you can't have real named cards for your partner, what should be standard for joint accounts.

And is there still a 3 cards limit for joint accounts?

 

[Karma_isA_8itch]

N26 is promising features like shared accounts, joint accounts, saving accounts for years and they keep doing nothing. The only good thing about them is that they are free. Closing your N26 account you will never again be able to open one... that shows how hilarious they are.

About bunq: the names don’t matter on the card since nobody is checking it anyway at least in Germany. If you want to use Apple Pay anyway that’s even less of a hurdle. Yes if you are abroad in the US for example you might every now and again run into someone who wants to check your ID but like i said you can simply remove your first name and only print the family name on the card. This does the trick for most of the people. If you create two separate accounts you and your wife will get of course cards with your own names on it.

Yes there is a limit to 3 cards plus one virtual card per account. You can connect those cards to whatever account you want to. There is no limit how many people or cards can join/connect to a joint account however. 2, 3, 4 or more just like you want. But if you want more than 3 physical cards per account you can order extra cards for 2 € per month per extra card.

 

[docfred]

Ok, but with two seperate accounts it would be the case, that the card from the free account would not be able to use Apple Pay for example, regardless if it is virtually connected to a premium account. Correct?

 

[Karma_isA_8itch]

Yes if you downgrade from premium to free all cards will be disabled. But all bank accounts that have been created or linked will stay with the free account. That’s why I keep saying make one of your three cards with family name only and give if to your wife.

Create two premium accounts order three cards for the account you want to keep. Make one card for your wife with family name only. Create a joint account invite your wife and link the cards you want to use to that account. After a month downgrade your wife’s account to free. She will still see the joint account and all other accounts in her free account and will be able to use it, make in and outgoing Transfers. And with one of your cards she can go and make payments.
[doublepost=1533546225][/doublepost]Apple Pay will still work with your Cards she just needs to add your card to her wallet.

 

[docfred]

Ok. And this process is called "simple, easy and innovative"?

Just to make sure, because I don't think I understood correctly, if later my wife could only pay with one of my cards ... what is the one month premium account for, that I should create and then cancel?

 

[Karma_isA_8itch]

Ok. And this process is called "simple, easy and innovative"?

Just to make sure, because I don't think I understood correctly, if later my wife could only pay with one of my cards ... what is the one month premium account for, that I should create and then cancel?

What I explained you is the way to do it for people that don’t see value in bunq to pay 8 € per person. This way is a workaround for someone who does not want to pay for two people the premium fee. So instead of 16 € you would only pay one premium membership for 8 €. Every person needs his own bunq account. You need to open one for your wife and one for yourself. They are free until you upgrade to premium. But you get one month free premium. Once you cancel premium your cards will be deactivated until you upgrade again. So to be able to use your cards u need premium. Keep your premium you will have three cards share them with your wife. Cancel her premium after the free month and she will not be able to use her cards that’s why you have to give her one of yours and you need premium. That’s the cheap way, a workaround, that’s not how you should do it. That’s why it is not easy, simple and modern but what do you expect ...

Like I said a million times before just do it the right way get two premium accounts you can try one month for free and check it out for yourself. With two premiums you get 3 cards plus one virtual card once Apple Pay launches and your wife gets 3 cards and a virtual card once Apple Pay launches. You can do with you cards what you want and she can do it’s hers what she wants. Connect them to whatever account you want. Your personal account, a friends or family’s one, s joint account. Feel free to do what you want. That’s he easy way but it will cost you 7.99 € per person. Or get a pack for 19.99 € and find two people to join or join someone else’s pack. Then you only pay 10 € for yourself and your wife witch 6 physical cards and two virtual ones.

Once again there is a cheap workaround that’s not easy or the right and easy way but it costs money like all things in life do. Nothing is for free and bunq does not do shady business with our money or give loans...


sorry for all the spelling mistakes but im writing this on my iphone se so

 

[docfred]

Ok, so it is not a real joint account like you get at normal banks. It's some sort of "here, you can access my account" and if you want the real story for everyone you have to pay at last 16€/month.

So how could it be, that other banks are considered "expensive" compared to bunq, which costs more than regular bank accounts with less services? I really don't get it after working out how I would have to move our family accounts to bunq.

But ok, everyone has it niche. N26 and bunq are not first choice for families (or no choice at all). But it might be, that I will bunq give a try as a playground for me.

 

[Karma_isA_8itch]

It is a real legal joint account. There are two different types of connections: the standard "here, you can access my account" and a real joing account with all its legal binding where all person have full access and are owner of said account. Of course all people that want to join that joint account need to be verified somehow. Since bunq is an online bank you need for each person to create an account and verify that you are that person. I dont really see what I'm missing here that you dont you dont understand.

Nobody ever said other banks are expensive compared to bunq. I do not pay more money then with my regular bank account I used to have for many years. If I see what some of my friends are paying for their bank accounts and credit cards/debit cards... So in my opinion they are not very expensive. I am willing to pay that price and especially if you team up with some people 5 € per month for all those features you get and the knowledge that bunq is doing the right thing with my money and not doing shady stuff with it and playing with my money ...

With my old bank I couldnt even get money for free anymore from their own ATMs. With bunq you get 10 free withdrawals from any ATM in europe. Just one of the many things I love about them.