Bye, Bye for now Apple, it has been fun!

[Varmann]

May I be the first one to introduce you to the IMAP Protocol?

Thanks for the tip, but I have already used IMAP for many years.

But I also download a copy it to my own disk, and that is the transfer challenge.
I certainly do not trust others to keep my data safe, decade after decade.

My mail go back to 1996, unfortunately I lost the first 3 years (back to -93) in an early OS/mail provider transfer.
It is a bit messy, but fully searchable. It has been through three client changes, Eudora(pc) -> Thunderbird(pc) -> Mail (mac) and the subfolder structure show signs of that.

My disk copy has at least saved me once from getting it all deleted (two years ago) when my mail provider messed it up.

I am fully aware that go fully over to cloud storage and streaming would make everything so much easier, but I am old school and do not trust all of them to last for a lifetime without hiccups.

 

[AppliedMicro]

But I also download a copy it to my own disk, and that is the transfer challenge.

You can import you local message files, transfer them via IMAP and export to disk on the new client. Nothing will ever be deleted. Or (probably preferable) transfer the message as .mbox files, a de facto Standard for Mail archives.

 

[Varmann]

You can import you local message files, transfer them via IMAP and export to disk on the new client. Nothing will ever be deleted. Or (probably preferable) transfer the message as .mbox files, a de facto Standard for Mail archives.

I my last transfers, before IMAP, got messed up. It seemed Eudora, Thunderbird and Mail did not handle things (mbox files) in exact similar way.

When my mail provider accidently had deleted my mail on the server, at least they did not have a way to get it back again. They also had a rather restrictive storage limit for several years so I had delete a lot mail. Are there a way to upload locally stored mail to an IMAP server, otherwise I do not see another way to keep my mail together?

 

[AppliedMicro]

Are there a way to upload locally stored mail to an IMAP server,

Sure - just import the locally stored mail into your reliable email client of choice - into the email account that syncs with the IMAP server? Apple Mail for example has local Mailboxes "On My Mac" and Mailboxes that get synced to an IMAP server. If you move locally imported mail to a synced mailbox, it will get uploaded to the IMAP server.

I suggest you set up a separate IMAP account for the transfer. And I trust that you've backed up your mail/files.

 

[AppliedMicro]

PS: Need to be patient during the syncing process. And the mail client as well as the IMAP server better not "choke" during the syncing process.

That said, I still believe that the process of moving locally stored email from a Mac to a Linux machine has already been solved by someone. Whether as a paid tool, free application on Linux, or just documenting appropriate import/export settings online.

 

[AppliedMicro]

PS: One more note:

It seemed Eudora, Thunderbird and Mail did not handle things (mbox files) in exact similar way.

Apple Mail allows for exporting individual Mail messages as individual message .eml files. By either dragging a mail message from the Mail windows to a folder in Finder or using "File - Save as" from the menu bar.

I'm sure that the latter can be easily scripted using AppleScript (Apple Mail will create the .eml file name using the message's subject field, so just make sure to prevent against accidental overwriting when you have multiple mail messages with the exact same subject - EDIT: Seems that it will do this automatically, at least when dragging&dropping out).

This would probably be my preferred solution.

 

[chmania]

I my last transfers, before IMAP, got messed up. It seemed Eudora, Thunderbird and Mail did not handle things (mbox files) in exact similar way.

Import or export mailboxes in Mail on Mac >> Reading an mbox file with Thunderbird in Linux...

 

[splifingate]

Thanks for the tip, but I have already used IMAP for many years.

But I also download a copy it to my own disk, and that is the transfer challenge.
I certainly do not trust others to keep my data safe, decade after decade.

My mail go back to 1996, unfortunately I lost the first 3 years (back to -93) in an early OS/mail provider transfer.
It is a bit messy, but fully searchable. It has been through three client changes, Eudora(pc) -> Thunderbird(pc) -> Mail (mac) and the subfolder structure show signs of that.

My disk copy has at least saved me once from getting it all deleted (two years ago) when my mail provider messed it up.

I am fully aware that go fully over to cloud storage and streaming would make everything so much easier, but I am old school and do not trust all of them to last for a lifetime without hiccups.

Ah, oh! So: it's so.

I understand what you mean . . . I do not currently have a fully-aware, searchable database of emails dating back to the beginning, but I do have backups (and (in some cases) backups of backups).

Out of the many double handfuls of thousands of email I hold (in all forms), there are probably ten specific emails over all these years that have any real archival importance.

I have printouts of those.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

May I be the first one to introduce you to the IMAP Protocol?

Was thinking the same thing. Then I thought of my wife and her like 20 years of outlook data files worth of emails and decided that people in "glass houses should shut the **** up..." (To quote Ready Player One...)

 

[splifingate]

Was thinking the same thing. Then I thought of my wife and her like 20 years of outlook data files worth of emails and decided that people in "glass houses should shut the **** up..." (To quote Ready Player One...)

Yes! I forget to remind myself (often) that there are use-case scenarios of which I've never dreampt

 

[rm5]

With macOS Sequoia's weekly (and upon every reboot) permission prompts for certain apps, I have no plans to upgrade my iMac. And I am glad I am using a Windows laptop, which has none of these issues.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

With macOS Sequoia's weekly (and upon every reboot) permission prompts for certain apps, I have no plans to upgrade my iMac. And I am glad I am using a Windows laptop, which has none of these issues.

Yeah I hate to sound like "old man yells at cloud" about the iOSification of Mac, but yeah, I miss user upgradeable RAM and hard drives. Still have that on the Windows side. Even on Snapdragon laptops you can still upgrade the hard drive on most of them.

I was even able to buy a Surface Pro 9 with a 256GB SSD and double it for $40.

For my Acer Predator Helios Neo 16", I doubled the RAM to 32GB and added an additional 1TB SSD for like $200 bucks. Add to that it was refurbed off Ebay with a 2 year warranty (seller was Acer itself) for $999 and that is saving me thousands over a Macbook Pro 16". Thousands, literally.

Although I do have to use ShutUp10 because MS kinda sucks haha.

 

[Homy]

Interesting! Here are some other aspects of using Macs according to Cisco, IBM and Google:

"60% of Cisco’s employees now use Mac. And it isn’t just the employees enjoying the benefits of working on Mac. Cisco’s IT department requires 33% fewer admins to manage their Mac fleet, and the sales and software engineering teams have seen performance increases across the board. The data is clear."

"It’s not just worker productivity, happiness and satisfaction that are boosted by employee choice — there are other real benefits for the business as well.

The data reports that:

• Mac users experience almost 5 times fewer cyber threats, and 9 times fewer virus issues than PCs, based on Cisco’s Secure Endpoint detection software.
• 89% of Mac users leverage biometrics compared to 29% of PC users, a known boost to security.
• The streamlined upgrade process for macOS Ventura, which took just one month compared to the six-month timeline for Windows 11, demonstrates Mac's agility in adapting to new technology.

While Mac’s higher upfront cost is a concern for organizations when allocating employee devices, Cisco found that Mac was actually $148-$395 less expensive over three years, depending on the model."

The Long & Winding Road to Mac Adoption: Insights from a Mac Management Expert - We Got Your Mac - SHI

Successes at IBM and Cisco have given a blueprint for large-scale Mac adoption, but it doesn’t happen overnight.

www.wegotyourmac.com

Mac in the Enterprise: Cisco's Success with Employee Device Choice

Discover how the inclusion of Macs improved employee satisfaction, productivity, security, and cost savings. Fletcher Previn, SVP and CIO at Cisco, shares insights.

www.jamf.com

Mac in the enterprise means good business. Learn from Cisco's success story.

Explore Cisco’s transformative journey with Macs and Jamf. Delve into the benefits and employee feedback on their device choice program. Watch the full session.

www.jamf.com

IBM: ‘Mac users are happier and more productive’

IBM, which has embraced Apple hardware in a big way, says the employees who use Macs are more likely to stay at the company – and are more productive. The insights came at this weeks Jamf Nation User Conference.

www.computerworld.com

IBM: Our Mac-Using Employees Outperform Windows Users in Every Way

IBM is claiming some profound improvements for macOS versus Windows in business operating environments, but it's not clear the gains are coming from the OS difference itself.

www.extremetech.com

Forrester Research and IBM Studies Show Macs Are Cheaper than PCs

It’s taken as gospel that Macs are more expensive than PCs. A quick look at the Dell Web site reveals laptops for as low as $300. Sure, we can s...

mbsdirect.com

Google to employees: 'Mac or Linux, but no more Windows'

We first heard rumors of this policy change a couple of months ago, but now it's made the papers: the Financial Times is reporting that Google is phasing out the use of Windows internally, as employees are migrated to either Linux or Mac OS X on machine turnovers or new hires. The policy change...

www.engadget.com

Google wants employees using Macs, not Windows or its own Chromebooks

In a presentation at the LISA ’13 conference earlier this month, Google explained that it’s managing a fleet of over 43,000 Macs its employees use, …

bgr.com

 

[JustinePaula]

Unless Cisco and others have access to the nuts and bolts of the code, allowing them Cisco to fix bugs, Apple is just as poor as Windows, any mission critical circumstance would not run on a 3rd party system, you want to own the code, so that you have 100% access at all times, Apple has a huge bug in M series laptops, the "silicon" series and they are not fixing or even acknowledging the existance of this bug.

For the end user that needs to publish dull keynotes, or sign pdf for payments, macs make sense.. Macs are really underpowered and the M series is becoming a problem, the inability to post purchase upgrade and the locking out of in house IT support, and the insanity of bricking cause you did x or y...

Large enterprise has the staff, the budgets, to handle all repairs, on win11/10 devices this is possible, on Macs, not so much.. If all you need a mac for is typing go ahead.. To run servers, you go old school, you build your own code...

 

[UliBaer]

In my company users can freely choose to have a Windows laptop or a Macbook for mobile work or homeoffice. The tech guy in the support team told me less than 3% of the employees take a mac and mainly because they also have a mac at home. Normally the users with macs exchange their laptops every two or three years for upgrade - no other way possible. The windows laptops run normally 4-6 years and were simply upgraded (f. e. SSD, RAM, etc) when needed. The macs are mainly considered a gimmick for Apple nerds...

 

[stevemiller]

With macOS Sequoia's weekly (and upon every reboot) permission prompts for certain apps, I have no plans to upgrade my iMac. And I am glad I am using a Windows laptop, which has none of these issues.

i'm not defending any particular platform, but amongst other things, i constantly get 'try ms copilot' banners all over my windows machine. i definitely would not categorize my microsoft pc experience as "less hassle".

 

[Ethosik]

i'm not defending any particular platform, but amongst other things, i constantly get 'try ms copilot' banners all over my windows machine. i definitely would not categorize my microsoft pc experience as "less hassle".

Yep same here. And OneDrive.

 

[Snowlover]

i'm not defending any particular platform, but amongst other things, i constantly get 'try ms copilot' banners all over my windows machine. i definitely would not categorize my microsoft pc experience as "less hassle".

I have never seen this. Running windows 11 pro on 2014 mac mini .
Maybe the rufus made usb installer not only bypassed tpm etc requirements, but set up to avoid this too. I selected everything in the "customize windows installion" section.

 

[rm5]

i'm not defending any particular platform, but amongst other things, i constantly get 'try ms copilot' banners all over my windows machine. i definitely would not categorize my microsoft pc experience as "less hassle".

Have had my Legion laptop for almost 5 months and I have NEVER gotten a Copilot popup. Never really gotten any ads or annoying popups in general.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Have had my Legion laptop for almost 5 months and I have NEVER gotten a Copilot popup. Never really gotten any ads or annoying popups in general.

I, too, have never gotten a single ad. I don't understand? I do run Win 11 Pro on everything I have. I have also removed onedrive and don't even use MS Office. I use LibreOffice.

 

[stevemiller]

this is there every time i boot my computer regardless of how many times i click the x. and this is a custom built tower with a straight install of windows 10, there's no 3rd party bloatware beyond what microsoft themselves puts in. when i searched online for how to get rid of it, plenty of others seem to be in the same boat, and the consensus was there isn't a setting that removes it. i mean i'll be eternally grateful if y'all know some obvious thing i'm missing.

but my point remains, all tech companies are guilty of this nonsense and we should hold them all accountable rather than playing brand loyalty. the more people let any company get away with spammy stuff, the more the industry shifts to this being the default experience.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

this is there every time i boot my computer regardless of how many times i click the x. and this is a custom built tower with a straight install of windows 10, there's no 3rd party bloatware beyond what microsoft themselves puts in. when i searched online for how to get rid of it, plenty of others seem to be in the same boat, and the consensus was there isn't a setting that removes it. i mean i'll be eternally grateful if y'all know some obvious thing i'm missing.

but my point remains, all tech companies are guilty of this nonsense and we should hold them all accountable rather than playing brand loyalty. the more people let any company get away with spammy stuff, the more the industry shifts to this being the default experience.
View attachment 2435974

Why do you think I am not using OneDrive and MS Office? I do admit I install debloating software for Windows 11... Maybe that is the difference. I also do not use Edge...instead I use Firefox.

 

[JustinePaula]

I needed to replace my 2013 macbook pro and on a day went shopping, and was torn between a mac or an ipad, here in South Africa, both are stupid expensive, but what can one do? I thought ipad with the external keyboard, pencil, dongle then thought hang on, ipad+keyboard+dongle+pencil, is what is really a 2nd class mac replacement, with a less effective OS.. I thought ok, in for a penny, in for a pound, go mac, and after really considering all the aspects, went mac, and macbook air..

There was zero incentive to go macbook pro, none as they are functionally for all intents and purpose the same device, the pro has more ports, but with a dongle I gain more function from the dongle than the macbook pro offers...

The biggest issue is the inability to post purchase upgrade the macbook, pro or air, you are stuck with what you bought, and that is to my way of thinking a huge blunder, I am sure with a couple of months of PHD salaries from 13 yr olds graduates from MIT/CalTech, the problems of upgrading post purchase could have been solved..

I wonder if there is anyway to "quantify" the loss of sales Apple lost as a result of folks not buying upgrades over the life of the laptop...I would have upgraded the RAM/SSD/Screen over time, as needs grow, paid the "Apple Tax" to have it installed in store. Sure.. As I type this I am still using the 2013 Macbook Pro, almost 12 yrs after buying it, as it works, 12 yrs and the OS is viable, High Sierra...

Which is bizarre as in the same month, I bought a ipad mini 2, that long gave up being viable as a tech product, almost 5 yrs ago it stopped getting updates, and apps lost any usefulness, I had about 5 yrs use from the ipad, yet the laptop is going strong after 12 yrs.. It gets updates maybe 1 or 2 every couple of years, but it is just a tool for email, and light video editing using FCP7/FCP, I dual boot, into a Mavericks...

I would have loved to have over the years invested in upgrades.. Apple I think missed the point.. Maybe there is a reason, but the 1st Mac I bought, mid 2000's the 2nd gen Macbook Pro, with the little door for RAM, the battery was replaceable, it was upgrade-able, perfect, so after 7 yrs, I bought the 2013 macbook pro, hoping that over the years Apple would get some sense, and maybe abandon the Intel, and with the "Silicon" go back to post purchase upgrade-ability? Nope.. Which is a massive blunder..

 

[stevemiller]

I needed to replace my 2013 macbook pro and on a day went shopping, and was torn between a mac or an ipad, here in South Africa, both are stupid expensive, but what can one do? I thought ipad with the external keyboard, pencil, dongle then thought hang on, ipad+keyboard+dongle+pencil, is what is really a 2nd class mac replacement, with a less effective OS.. I thought ok, in for a penny, in for a pound, go mac, and after really considering all the aspects, went mac, and macbook air..

There was zero incentive to go macbook pro, none as they are functionally for all intents and purpose the same device, the pro has more ports, but with a dongle I gain more function from the dongle than the macbook pro offers...

The biggest issue is the inability to post purchase upgrade the macbook, pro or air, you are stuck with what you bought, and that is to my way of thinking a huge blunder, I am sure with a couple of months of PHD salaries from 13 yr olds graduates from MIT/CalTech, the problems of upgrading post purchase could have been solved..

I wonder if there is anyway to "quantify" the loss of sales Apple lost as a result of folks not buying upgrades over the life of the laptop...I would have upgraded the RAM/SSD/Screen over time, as needs grow, paid the "Apple Tax" to have it installed in store. Sure.. As I type this I am still using the 2013 Macbook Pro, almost 12 yrs after buying it, as it works, 12 yrs and the OS is viable, High Sierra...

Which is bizarre as in the same month, I bought a ipad mini 2, that long gave up being viable as a tech product, almost 5 yrs ago it stopped getting updates, and apps lost any usefulness, I had about 5 yrs use from the ipad, yet the laptop is going strong after 12 yrs.. It gets updates maybe 1 or 2 every couple of years, but it is just a tool for email, and light video editing using FCP7/FCP, I dual boot, into a Mavericks...

I would have loved to have over the years invested in upgrades.. Apple I think missed the point.. Maybe there is a reason, but the 1st Mac I bought, mid 2000's the 2nd gen Macbook Pro, with the little door for RAM, the battery was replaceable, it was upgrade-able, perfect, so after 7 yrs, I bought the 2013 macbook pro, hoping that over the years Apple would get some sense, and maybe abandon the Intel, and with the "Silicon" go back to post purchase upgrade-ability? Nope.. Which is a massive blunder..

the least charitable read of non-upgradeable hardware is that apple doesn't lose component upgrade sales, they gain entire additional device sales the more often people need to replace their systems. plus its probably cheaper for them to engineer and manufacture things that aren't modular and swappable.

i'm sure apple's explanation would be that integrating more of the components in a non-upgradeable way makes the devices more compact and performant. i dunno if i'm entirely sold on that value proposition, especially when you scale up to things like the mac pro. and you have apple's track record the entire 2016-2020 era where everything was hot, loud, performance throttled, crashy, and even parts like the butterfly keyboard were extremely unreliable.

i'd take a middle ground with apple silicon. the soc's are good, but if they could make the M-series chip itself a module that could be swapped, i'd probably have sprung for upgrading my m1 max for an m3 or m4 series sooner than i will having to rebuy the entire system.

 

[JustinePaula]

Apple lost a lot of upgrades I would have bought, and am still not buying, with my 1st macbook pro, I bought upgrade RAM, hard drives, batteries, I invested, and it was worth it.. I would have done the same with the 2nd macbook pro that lasted 12 yrs, upgraded the RAM, hard drive, screen, bought more things, but there is nothing to buy, so Apple makes $0...

If the M series from 2025 was upgradeable for the Pro, done, sign me up, no question it would be worth it for me, it may not for everyone, but BTO is not for everyone, and we should have a choice, the "air" is the BTO option, and the Pro is upgrade-able over time, like Framework laptops..

Give the folks that do parts like RAM/SSD/Batteries a reason, and it would prove popular, but I suspect a certain person has the imagination of a lump of coal..It shows..