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Can Apple close the gap to the S6's hardware?
- Thread starter journeyy
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Sure you did--implied right in this quote. Quite clearly implying that iPhone users don't know what Android users already know.
And I'm saying most Android users are just as ignorant of what they already have in their hands. Of course it's anecdotal but I spend as much time showing Android users how to use the functionality of their phone as I do friends with iPhones.
Again, same as above. Go poll 100 Android users to see if they know they can install the Amazon App Store on their non-Amazon device and I'd bet the number of 'yes' responses could be counted on one hand.
And you or I knowing what can be done on Android vs. iOS is irrelevant. It's what the average consumer knows that is important--and you'd likely find the same level of knowledge regardless of that person's platform.
But these are the features they use. Android may have capabilities beyond the iPhone but neither group of users are touching the overwhelming majority of them. Most iOS users aren't likely even aware of the more sophisticated aspects of iOS, like Handoffs, Cloud Sync, Air Drop (just showed my friend this feature yesterday---and he works in IT
). Same goes for Android users. So if hardly anyone are using this expanded functionality on Android, what's the benefit? It's like comparing a car with a top speed of 120 mph and another that tops out at 200 mph. If the speed limit is 75 mph, is there really a benefit for the latter?Because the growth of hardware and software is still well beyond the growth of the common user's needs. Users haven't caught up to functionality added to both platforms many versions ago. That's exactly why the 'deficiencies in iOS' as most in this subforum see it, don't matter.
Again, stop looking at this from your own personal perspective. You or I are aware of things like the subtle differences in camera quality but most users aren't. Hell, considering how many selfies people take with the terrible front facing cameras on most phones, do you think there is a ground swell amongst the typical consumer for a better camera on the iPhone?
In many regards, the spec of Android phones surpassed the iPhone years ago. Did it make a huge difference then? No, so why doesn't everyone think all of a sudden it will? You guys give the general buying public far too much credit, especially Android users. Go spend a day in an Apple store, Best Buy, or any carrier store and listen to the problems that people bring in. The level of ignorance people have about their own devices, regardless of platform, is astounding. Go poll people on what NFC is--bet you have to wait a long time before anyone can actually answer it correctly.
I won't belabor this point further. The general consumer doesn't have a problem with the gap because they are nowhere near even approaching the edge of that abyss.
Maybe, but it won't be anytime in the immediate future, IMO.
Again this seems all feeling. Other phones have had premium design, better battery life etc. you said every cycle Apple loses something yet every year they sell more and more. So I'm trying to see where Apple is losing competitive edge like you said.
Yes, but try finding that one mythical Android smartphone which does all these features that one-up the iPhone. It's like my friend from the army last time who got the title of "best fitness" even though there were other people who could run faster, do more chin-ups, jump further etc. The point is that these were all different people. One guy excelled in chin-ups, but couldn't run for nuts. The other could run but couldn't jump far. My friend was the best all-rounder who ticked all the right boxes, and so he got the award, and everyone agreed that he deserved to get it.
Right, can we please stop with the accusing the majority of smartphone users to not having a clue what they hold in their hands as that's pure BS!
It is an utterly flawed argument proven by the huge number of apps people install, the photos they take and then share globally on the net, the emails they read and reply to, the SMS they send and receive in conversation threads, and the web pages and internet shopping carried out globally on mobile devices.
Their is PLENTY of evidence to highlight how most people know EXACTLY what they hold in their hands.
It is an utterly flawed argument proven by the huge number of apps people install, the photos they take and then share globally on the net, the emails they read and reply to, the SMS they send and receive in conversation threads, and the web pages and internet shopping carried out globally on mobile devices.
Their is PLENTY of evidence to highlight how most people know EXACTLY what they hold in their hands.
Hmmm. There is no discussion, only a bunch of amped up posters beating their chests. This has devolved into the s6 is better and get out of town if you don't like hearing "the truth". Then the off-topic iOS vs android software comparison was thrown in for good measure.
Can Apple close the gap to the S6's hardware?
I can agree with that.
I guess I don't understand the Apple sheep comments. Not everyone is under some magic spell buying Apple products. I'd wager most enjoy and are satisfied with their Apple purchases. Customer service overall is top notch as well.
I won't beat a dead horse but in Korea it's almost considered an economic injustice if you don't have Samsung devices.
I can agree with that.
I guess I don't understand the Apple sheep comments. Not everyone is under some magic spell buying Apple products. I'd wager most enjoy and are satisfied with their Apple purchases. Customer service overall is top notch as well.
I won't beat a dead horse but in Korea it's almost considered an economic injustice if you don't have Samsung devices.
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I'm sorry but none of this proves sophistication of use--all simple tasks performed on any platform. Go look at the top charts of either App Store--all that's needed to see where most people's priorities lie.
So the conclusion is apple should do nothing and continue par their course.
Well thanks for that valuable input folks. Your participation in thus thread is essentially no longer necessary. You've shared that insightful and forward thinking point of view. Thanks. Let those who want to see apple do more continue the discussion.
Well thanks for that valuable input folks. Your participation in thus thread is essentially no longer necessary. You've shared that insightful and forward thinking point of view. Thanks. Let those who want to see apple do more continue the discussion.
Come on epi, you know that's not what I'm saying at all. The topic of this thread is Can Apple close the gap, not Should Apple close the gap. My comments are merely to point out why Apple has not suffered from having an OS many consider less capable, not that they shouldn't pursue improvements.
I think far too many here approach these argument from their own personal perspective and experiences when in truth, we are not the typical user. What applies to us isn't necessarily applicable to the common smartphone user. I'll go back to my earlier car analogy--so many here expect Apple to make a 200 mph car or risk failure when in truth, the buying public doesn't need anything that goes faster than 80 mph.
Sophistication of use!!
More people shop for goods online using a mobile device then any other, people use mobile devices to browse the internet, they take photos, they use 'smart devices' in the 'smart and connected' ways they have been designed for.
They install billions of apps every day and use them every day.
What do you only consider a smartphone user to know how to use a smart phone when they use it to write software on or something?
You have posted a response to the opposite and provided no evidence for your argument other than it's what you think. Please elaborate just WHY you believe no one knows what a smart phone can do.
As an Android user, I've stopped doubting Apple's strategy. I think they've perfectly captured a good mix of style, ease of use, quality, and functionality for the masses. I've also come to realize that my requirements in a smartphone are a small majority and won't appeal to the average user.
However, I do believe Android is now good enough and easy enough to use with enough style to attract defectors. Why hasn't that happened yet? Especially in the US?
I think it's because of pricing. Recall, that the Mac had the same strengths over Windows PCs in the 90s but PCs became dominant because of superior price/performance and good enough functionality/simplicity. PCs were much cheaper than Macs and that swayed enough people to almost kill Apple. Obviously, Jobs and Cook have learned that lesson but Apple shouldn't be able to keep these margins going forever though they seem able to.
Why? It's because of the carrier subsidy. Whether it's a $450 discount in exchange for a 2 year contract or a zero interest 2 year loan, most iPhone users don't have to pay $800-1000 for a high end iPhone. Google has tried many times to go around the carriers but have lost the battle. The Android OEMs seem content to follow Apple's lead and keep margins artificially high.
We've already seen iPads market share shrink where there is no subsidy. And iPhones don't do as well where there is no subsidy either.
Apple's real test is with the Watch. Will consumers pay $400-800 for an unsubsidized watch where Android offers similar functionality at half the cost? Where there is no subsidy, Android has shown it can win. If the watch succeeds over the long term and is not just a one time success amongst the loyalists, I will admit I'm wrong and Apple has something special that is enduring and keep doing what they're doing.
However, I do believe Android is now good enough and easy enough to use with enough style to attract defectors. Why hasn't that happened yet? Especially in the US?
I think it's because of pricing. Recall, that the Mac had the same strengths over Windows PCs in the 90s but PCs became dominant because of superior price/performance and good enough functionality/simplicity. PCs were much cheaper than Macs and that swayed enough people to almost kill Apple. Obviously, Jobs and Cook have learned that lesson but Apple shouldn't be able to keep these margins going forever though they seem able to.
Why? It's because of the carrier subsidy. Whether it's a $450 discount in exchange for a 2 year contract or a zero interest 2 year loan, most iPhone users don't have to pay $800-1000 for a high end iPhone. Google has tried many times to go around the carriers but have lost the battle. The Android OEMs seem content to follow Apple's lead and keep margins artificially high.
We've already seen iPads market share shrink where there is no subsidy. And iPhones don't do as well where there is no subsidy either.
Apple's real test is with the Watch. Will consumers pay $400-800 for an unsubsidized watch where Android offers similar functionality at half the cost? Where there is no subsidy, Android has shown it can win. If the watch succeeds over the long term and is not just a one time success amongst the loyalists, I will admit I'm wrong and Apple has something special that is enduring and keep doing what they're doing.
The conclusion is those who are members of macrumors forums in good standing are free to participate based on the bylaws. Macrumors thanks everybody for their participation and notes all opinions are welcome provided they adhere to the rules and regulations.
How would the average iPhone user know about Android if they are not using an Android device?
You implied that I stated, Android users are more knowledgeable about their smartphones than iPhones users are about iPhones. The fact is, there isn't much to learn about the iPhone cause of it's controlled closeness. It doesn't take long for Android users to figure out, you can do this or that.
Android is not rocket science when it comes to ease of use. Even my tech lacking mother easily figured out many things she can do on her Note 2 and Note 4 compared to what she was able to do on the iPhone. If she never had an Android device, she would have never known. That's my point.
But these are the features they use. Android may have capabilities beyond the iPhone but neither group of users are touching the overwhelming majority of them. Most iOS users aren't likely even aware of the more sophisticated aspects of iOS, like Handoffs, Cloud Sync, Air Drop (just showed my friend this feature yesterday---and he works in IT
You're speaking on ALL benefits. I'm speaking about the obvious differences that many can figure out for themselves.
I've known plenty of first time Android users that are not that tech savvy, who figured out they are not tied to the Play Store, have more Bluetooth capabilities, can toggle Google accounts, took advantage of file browser on device and PC, and a long list more.
That might be true, but when talking about the way it's implemented, not so. And Android manufacturers, especially Samsung, are using the specs most don't care about to implement features and better what most do care about.
Again, I was never speaking about bragging rights on faster bootup times, less lag, smoother fps, and etc.
It does matter. Consumers want the best whether they know they have the best or not. I've heard plenty of iPhone users state "it has the best camera" as one of the reasons for purchasing. And it's based on reviews and word of mouth. Everytime the iPhone is stripped of another "best" title, consumers will take notice.
Because the specs did matter when the iPhone still held the title for the best premium design, point n shoot camera, battery life, and etc. Now things are becoming differ. I'm not even focusing on actually specs, more on the way the features and specs are implemented.
Like I said, mainstream doesn't realize any gap. Any feature or device can change that at any given moment. Or simply if Apple allow the gap to become too wide.
That remains to be seen. But I think it will happen sooner than later.
Apple branding is top notch. But no company can depend solely on that.
Mention smartphone, and most will mention iPhone by pure reaction of it being a household name. That can't last forever.
And does Android offer an advantage over the iPhone in any of your examples? Can you browsing the internet 'better' on an Android device, shop for goods and serviced 'better' on that Android device, click a virtual shutter button 'better' on an Android device? None of your examples show sophisticated use, whether you think so or not.
Those billions of apps--means they know how to click an 'install', 'get', or 'buy' button. Sure there are apps like Tasker that offer an Android user options they won't get on an iPhone. And it has somewhere between 500,000 to 1,000,000 installs....ever. I believe there were somewhere close to a billion Android smartphones sold in 2014 alone. If we assume all of Tasker's installs were in 2014 (which we know isn't true) and give them the benefit of the doubt that it was installed a full million times (which it hasn't been yet), that's still 1/10 of 1%--hardly a majority.
Conversely, Minecraft, an game available on ALL platforms that costs more than 2x as much, has been installed between 5-10 million times and is number one on both the Play Store and App Store.Let's look at the rest of the paid apps on Google Play. You have to go all the way to number 16 before you find an app that's not a game. In the top 50, a quick glance shows 7 non-games. And I'm not picking on Android--it's exactly the same on the Apple App Store. Need some more evidence? I've already acknowledged I'm far from the most knowledgable smartphone user--there are plenty of members here who run circles around me. Guess how many people I've encountered like this in the real world, amongst the hundreds (very conservative estimate) I've interacted with in one way or another regarding smartphones and their capabilities? None. Yes, I don't hang out in an IT department or work for a tech based company. But it's real world experience with regular people, the exact type of general consumers I'm referring to.
We're talking about the differences between the two platforms, how iOS falls short of what Android can do. I've never discounted that statement, only that what the vast majority of smartphone owners use their devices for doesn't require this 'advanced' functionality. And that's why Apple isn't falling to the superior capabilities found on Android. Most people just don't care that much.
Great point. And I think the all-rounder is pretty near in the future. Every year Android phone manufactures come closer.
Well, just agree to disagree I guess. Only time will tell--let's revisit again in a few years.
Thanks for the debate--nice to have a civil and calm discussion, something that's occasionally in short supply here. Cheers.
Not you.
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But not the rules of logic and fair discussion apparently. Again, show me one review that doesn't speak of the hardware losses or the s6 or where Samsung said waterproof is "critical". Why haven't you retracted your statement?
No one is saying you can't post. I'm merry saying if you really believe apple should stay just the way they are what else do you have add to a thread that's discussing apples shortcomings.
Apparently just false accusations and reminders of apples sales.
And does Android offer an advantage over the iPhone in any of your examples? Can you browsing the internet 'better' on an Android device, shop for goods and serviced 'better' on that Android device, click a virtual shutter button 'better' on an Android device? None of your examples show sophisticated use, whether you think so or not.
Those billions of apps--means they know how to click an 'install', 'get', or 'buy' button. Sure there are apps like Tasker that offer an Android user options they won't get on an iPhone. And it has somewhere between 500,000 to 1,000,000 installs....ever. I believe there were somewhere close to a billion Android smartphones sold in 2014 alone. If we assume all of Tasker's installs were in 2014 (which we know isn't true) and give them the benefit of the doubt that it was installed a full million times (which it hasn't been yet), that's still 1/10 of 1%--hardly a majority.
Let's look at the rest of the paid apps on Google Play. You have to go all the way to number 16 before you find an app that's not a game. In the top 50, a quick glance shows 7 non-games. And I'm not picking on Android--it's exactly the same on the Apple App Store. Need some more evidence? I've already acknowledged I'm far from the most knowledgable smartphone user--there are plenty of members here who run circles around me. Guess how many people I've encountered like this in the real world, amongst the hundreds (very conservative estimate) I've interacted with in one way or another regarding smartphones and their capabilities? None. Yes, I don't hang out in an IT department or work for a tech based company. But it's real world experience with regular people, the exact type of general consumers I'm referring to.
We're talking about the differences between the two platforms, how iOS falls short of what Android can do. I've never discounted that statement, only that what the vast majority of smartphone owners use their devices for doesn't require this 'advanced' functionality. And that's why Apple isn't falling to the superior capabilities found on Android. Most people just don't care that much.
Actually we are discussing exactly why you believe that the majority of smartphone users do not know what they hold in their hands, and you STILL have not provided evidence to support your claim.
So come on, what is your evidence?
My last post provided multiple points of evidence, quite clearly in fact. Can't debate if you can't comprehend what's being posted, so this discussion appears to be over. Moving on.
The conclusion is that at best this is just a discussion for the fun on it all for those who are participating and nothing more, if it's even that. Nothing the minuscule percentage of people here would say would matter in any reality or have any influence on anything.
No you haven't, all you did was post some stats about the number of times an app has been installed, that means nothing. How has comparing what a user does or does not know what their smartphone can do have to do with comparing iOS and Android?
The only part of your post that sheds any light on your belief is stating that people do not need the advanced functionality of a smartphone, well if all you want to do is talk to someone on a phone then no you don't, but that still doesn't mean the majority of smartphone users do not know what they have, just implying they don't need them.
People use smart functionalities of smartphones daily, the majority of users do.
So again, do you believe your argument is that most smartphone users do not 'need' smart phone functionality, or is it still that they do not 'know what they hold'?
To get back to topic, not only should the front camera of the iPhone become more competitive (currently a measly 1.2 mp), the back should too.
The iPhone 6 doesn't have more than 8 mp and doesn't have hardware optical image stabilization. The s6 beats the iPhone in both these categories.
The iPhone 6 doesn't have more than 8 mp and doesn't have hardware optical image stabilization. The s6 beats the iPhone in both these categories.
No, our point is simply that what makes Apple devices attractive to their users may well involve intangible factors that cannot be distilled into a number on a spec sheet. It's easy to say "Do more", but sure are you that people are getting more of what they want, instead of being saddled with more issues to contend with?
Apple's sales figures have shown that their target market simply isn't all that sensitive to specs. Why then do people keep thinking that pumping specs in their devices is the way to go?
Not everything that can be measured (like PPI, amount of ram, megapixels in a camera) matters to the end user, just as not everything which matters can be measured (like how do you measure silly-smooth scrolling in the Safari browser, or the utility from getting an app like Periscope on the iPhone first?)
It's not that Apple shouldn't do anything, but rather, that the features you are proposing may well not appeal all that much to iOS users, because they are using Apple devices for a wholly different reason and may have different expectations from their devices compared to Android users.
For example, Apple is widely expected to showcase Homekit this WWDC. That may be what people want, for Apple to take what would otherwise be complex technology and implement it in a seamless and intuitive manner that takes all the friction out of using them. For these people, nothing else really matters.
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People are asking for apple to compete more. Not to add everything android has per se.
This fear that the majority of apple users can't handle more features is absurd. What have those that just use phone calls and text messages and other basic features of the iPhone lost when apple added features each year? Can they not still continue to use their iPhone just the way they are?
They lose nothing and others who want to use these new features gain more functionality. What is wrong with that? And what is wrong with people hoping apple will do more given what the competition is doing.
Nothing.
And in some areas, apple is falling pathetically behind. 1.2 mp front facing camera?