Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Can't innovate any more, my ass?

xWhiplash said:
Thunderbolt 3. And have the new Xeons been a MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR boost in performance? My 2010 Mac Pro is competing with my 2015 custom built PC which had the newest CPU generation installed. There weren't any differences. Both are 3.33Ghz. Why is my 2015 custom PC only just as fast as my 2010 Mac Pro?

This whole concept of "Apple is not on the newest processor generation" is just dumb. Gone are the days of a processor offering a MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR boost in performance. My 2015 processor was extremely expensive yet it matched my 2010 Mac Pro.
Click to expand...

We DO all agree about this.

CPU performance advances are negligible (a part from a few cases)

It's GPU performance which has drastically advanced.

So professionals have the following two options atm:

1- stay with a 5-7 year old platform like the cMP and try to get as much life out of it as possible but without modern connectivity like thunderbolt. Also, there are big compromises when dealing with pcie SSD, and soon lack of future software support, and technical knowledge is needed.

2- jump on the nMP, which is newer from a connectivity perspective, but has fixed underperforming and overpriced GPUs


Now, THAT's why people are pissed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hank Carter, mrxak, singhs.apps and 1 other person
itdk92 said:
We DO all agree about this.

CPU performance advances are negligible (a part from a few cases)

It's GPU performance which has drastically advanced.

So professionals have the following two options atm:

1- stay with a 5-7 year old platform like the cMP and try to get as much life out of it as possible but without modern connectivity like thunderbolt. Also, there are big compromises when dealing with pcie SSD, and soon lack of future software support, and technical knowledge is needed.

2- jump on the nMP, which is newer from a connectivity perspective, but has fixed underperforming and overpriced GPUs


Now, THAT's why people are pissed.
Click to expand...

Are they underpowered though? A $4,000 Quadro can seem to be underperforming for games vs the Titan. It BARELY matches the Titan gaming performance, yet is about 3x-4x the price.

The graphics cards in the Mac Pro are meant for work. They seem to perform VERY well in that area.

http://barefeats.com/tube05.html

$5,000 Quadro vs Titan
 
Last edited:
xWhiplash said:
Are they underpowered though? A $4,000 Quadro can seem to be underperforming for games vs the Titan. It BARELY matches the Titan gaming performance, yet is about 3x-4x the price.

The graphics cards in the Mac Pro are meant for work. They seem to perform VERY well in that area.

http://barefeats.com/tube05.html

$5,000 Quadro vs Titan
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say D700 is enough for modern advanced 3D rendering, VFX, exc? Because it is not
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hank Carter, singhs.apps, pat500000 and 1 other person
itdk92 said:
CPU performance advances are negligible (a part from a few cases).
Click to expand...
There have been some pretty dramatic improvements in CPU performance - but they come from exploiting improvements in the instruction set.

If your vendor last touched the code in 2006 for the initial port to Intel - you probably won't see much improvement.

If your stuff has been optimized for the latest AVX, AES and other extensions - it can be huge. (I eWasted four racks of dual socket servers to replace them with servers with the AES extension.)

Of course, it takes money to optimize - and the Apple OSX market is so small that many vendors still use Pentium 4 as their reference architecture.
 
itdk92 said:
Are you trying to say D700 is enough for modern advanced 3D rendering, VFX, exc? Because it is not
Click to expand...

There will always be that niche where somebody/company needs...NEEDS that $5,000 quadro with 24GB of VRAM. I am looking at the benchmarks that the 2013 Mac Pro is clearly beating the 2010 Mac Pro even with the latest "Mac certified" graphics cards like the GTX 680. I am not looking at some crazy benchmarks for 8K video or so much advanced 3D rendering that a $5,000 quadro is required.
 
xWhiplash said:
There will always be that niche where somebody/company needs...NEEDS that $5,000 quadro with 24GB of VRAM. I am looking at the benchmarks that the 2013 Mac Pro is clearly beating the 2010 Mac Pro even with the latest "Mac certified" graphics cards like the GTX 680. I am not looking at some crazy benchmarks for 8K video or so much advanced 3D rendering that a $5,000 quadro is required.
Click to expand...

And you of course know that a long time has passed since the Mac Edition GTX680, and loads of new stuff has come to market, which is compatible with the cMP, right? (e.g. pcie SSD, usb3 interfaces, controllers, AMD 280X, AMD 390X, NVIDIA GTX980, GTX980TI, Titan X, QUADROs, exc)

Sarcasm apart, my point being that a cMP with 3rd party components, still rivals - and in some key areas exceed - the capabilities of the nMP, while retaining some key advantages (e.g. the GPU fails? You just buy another and swap it in less than 5 min, hence MUCH lower downtime).


When talking about Mac Pros, we are already considering a niche, but Apple created a sub-niche of people who actually need to buy the previous, 7 year old version of their latest Mac, to get a Mac with good performance.

In alternative, you could buy a 4-5000 $ used nMP and put together a couple of external GPUs, but this is a very dangerous road, if your business needs day to day stability and reliability - beside costing 3 times as much or more.


This is ridiculous.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak, singhs.apps and Flint Ironstag
Apple haven't done any innovating since Jobs died. Sorry not sorry.

They're just playing a game of catch up to everyone else now, whilst still always being 3 years behind.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hank Carter and mrxak
WHERE IS NEW MACPRO ?
lolz.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: pat500000, antonis, mrxak and 10 others
itdk92 said:
And you of course know that a long time has passed since the Mac Edition GTX680, and loads of new stuff has come to market, which is compatible with the cMP, right? (e.g. pcie SSD, usb3 interfaces, controllers, AMD 280X, AMD 390X, NVIDIA GTX980, GTX980TI, Titan X, QUADROs, exc)

Sarcasm apart, my point being that a cMP with 3rd party components, still rivals - and in some key areas exceed - the capabilities of the nMP, while retaining some key advantages (e.g. the GPU fails? You just buy another and swap it in less than 5 min, hence MUCH lower downtime).


When talking about Mac Pros, we are already considering a niche, but Apple created a sub-niche of people who actually need to buy the previous, 7 year old version of their latest Mac, to get a Mac with good performance.

In alternative, you could buy a 4-5000 $ used nMP and put together a couple of external GPUs, but this is a very dangerous road, if your business needs day to day stability and reliability - beside costing 3 times as much or more.


This is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

And putting in a non-certified GTX 980 in a cMP is better? It is a hack, nothing more. I use a GTX 980 in my 2010 Mac Pro and I have occasional issues. It doesn't perform as well as a GTX 980 on my PC does. The GTX 680, last I checked, was the latest certified, official video card for the 2010 Mac Pro.

There aren't even drivers for the 900 series in the mac. You need to use the 600 series drivers. Again, it is a hack.
 
xWhiplash said:
And putting in a non-certified GTX 980 in a cMP is better? It is a hack, nothing more. I use a GTX 980 in my 2010 Mac Pro and I have occasional issues. It doesn't perform as well as a GTX 980 on my PC does. The GTX 680, last I checked, was the latest certified, official video card for the 2010 Mac Pro.

There aren't even drivers for the 900 series in the mac. You need to use the 600 series drivers. Again, it is a hack.
Click to expand...

That rest at the feet of Apple who failed to update their graphic libs for ages. And also on the fact that for dual platform applications, the 3rd parties are spending less time on optimization on the limited market that the Mac is compared to the PC.
 
tuxon86 said:
That rest at the feet of Apple who failed to update their graphic libs for ages. And also on the fact that for dual platform applications, the 3rd parties are spending less time on optimization on the limited market that the Mac is compared to the PC.
Click to expand...

Um, no? Microsoft doesn't have built in drivers for the GTX 1080 cards. You have to get them from NVIDIA or your display will be 800x600 due to using the generic VGA drivers NOT the GTX 1080 drivers.

It is not Apple's responsibility to write drivers for cards that MIGHT be installed.

And people screaming for Tim Cook's departure. Remember that this is now the iPhone and iPad world. THAT is where they (Apple) get the most revenue. He is still succeeding at Apple.
 
JarScott said:
Tim Cook looks so uncomfortable in this photo. It's like he's looking directly into the camera as if to say, "Please get me out of here."

Edit: Wait...are those Trump branded bottles of water?
Click to expand...

Wow.. maybe.. not the first time he put his name on water!

trump_ice_water.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak
The 680 is not a certified card? What planet are you on. Apple haven't used an nVidia Card in the cMP since 120 or 8800.

It's just pure luck Apple are too ******g lazy to remove the massive block of drivers in the package that they nvever used cards for. My 610 works out of the box, it's not certified. And i'd be an idiot to think it was.

Any nVidia card after the 120 or the 8800 is a hack.
 
xWhiplash said:
Um, no? Microsoft doesn't have built in drivers for the GTX 1080 cards. You have to get them from NVIDIA or your display will be 800x600 due to using the generic VGA drivers NOT the GTX 1080 drivers.

It is not Apple's responsibility to write drivers for cards that MIGHT be installed.

And people screaming for Tim Cook's departure. Remember that this is now the iPhone and iPad world. THAT is where they (Apple) get the most revenue. He is still succeeding at Apple.
Click to expand...

The drivers yes, the graphic libs no. You don't get DirectX from NVidia for example and OpenGL on Mac is way out of date.
 
  • Like
Reactions: itdk92
xWhiplash said:
And putting in a non-certified GTX 980 in a cMP is better? It is a hack, nothing more. I use a GTX 980 in my 2010 Mac Pro and I have occasional issues. It doesn't perform as well as a GTX 980 on my PC does. The GTX 680, last I checked, was the latest certified, official video card for the 2010 Mac Pro.

There aren't even drivers for the 900 series in the mac. You need to use the 600 series drivers. Again, it is a hack.
Click to expand...

It is not a hack, it's just a non officially supported components. There are web drivers for the GTX980.

Anyways, all of this, just confirms the situation of the Mac Pro is ridiculus

G4DPII said:
The 680 is not a certified card? What planet are you on. Apple haven't used an nVidia Card in the cMP since 120 or 8800.

It's just pure luck Apple are too ******g lazy to remove the massive block of drivers in the package that they nvever used cards for. My 610 works out of the box, it's not certified. And i'd be an idiot to think it was.

Any nVidia card after the 120 or the 8800 is a hack.
Click to expand...


There has been a nVIDIA GTX680 Mac Edition.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak
Did Apple sell the 680? No, just because suppliers put Mac Edition on something means nothing. If it caused issues you can bet Apple wouldn't have helped solve the proplems.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back