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iPad Pro Do we suspect an A13X iPad Pro refresh in Fall? Or is Apple done with iPads for 2019? [Merged]
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MicroLED has nothing whatsoever to do with miniLED. miniLED is available now, it’s just a different backlighting method for a LCD screen. Apple’s 32” XDR display uses miniLED tech.
MicroLED is also available now—as long as you have $100,000 you can get a 292” 8K TV from Samsung. The pixels are HUGE: 30 dpi. Their smallest panel is 73”, and it’s 1080p.
If anyone ever manages to shrink that down to a 12” diagonal at something around 4K resolution, it’s going to be a beautiful tablet display. But the technology is many years away. 5? 10? 20? Who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Where did I suggest MicroLED had anything to do with LED backlights?
And, as for your claim that MicroLED only does 30 dpi...
https://www.microled-info.com/taxonomy/term/70/all
"Japan Display announced that it is developing micro-LED display technologies, and the company will unveil its first prototype at FINTECH Japan 2019 in early December. JDI will show a 1.6" 300x300 (256 PPI) display that is based on the company's own LTPS backplane with microLED chips developed by Glo.
The new display provides a wide viewing angle of 178 degress and offers very high brightness (3,000 nits)."
"JBD https://jb-display.com shows their active matrix inorganic microLED display chips and panels with wavelength ranging from UV to visible to IR. The pixel pitch ranges from 400 dpi to 10,000 dpi with a varity of resolutions, high brightness, high EQE, high reliability, these panels are ideal for AR, VR, HUD, projector, weapon sights, 3D printing, microscope and more. JBD's microLED uses wafer level technology, no phosphor, no pick and place, no mass transfer, no quantum dots, everything is made by Silicon and compound semiconductor on a wafer. At SID Display Week 2019, JBD shows 2 million nits brightness Micro LED, 600 DPI bi-color Micro LED display implementing JBD’s proprietary transferring technology to move red and green LEDs to silicon CMOS backplane."
1) When OP posted “miniLED please! Keep OLED away from iPads!!! Would gladly pay more for miniLED” and the first word of your reply was “Agree”. That suggested to me you didn’t know the difference between miniLED and microLED. If that was a bad read, my apologies.
2) I never said “MicroLED only does 30 dpi”, I was clearly referencing Samsung’s “The Wall”. It’s (reportedly) available for purchase right now. It’s both jaw-droppingly expensive, and 30 dpi.
3) I’m familiar with the publicly available information on microLED, but thanks for the link. The Japan Display proof of concept is interesting, and very likely explains the recent $800 million investment. It well shows where the technology is headed. But it’s small for a reason. Like I said, do it on a iPad-sized scale and you’ll have a beautiful tablet. Expensive, but beautiful.
4) The Jade Bird displays are less interesting; they’re mostly monochromatic (they do have a bi-color tech, but samples are not available afaik) and are rather small. But again, you can imagine where that tech could lead.
microLED has outstanding potential and the future is no doubt very bright (pun intended!). Apple is likely doing some of the most interesting R&D in that space. But large, affordable displays are years away. The first Apple product to feature microLED will probably be the Watch. But it’ll be amazing in AR glasses. Buckle up
So I caved. Instead of waiting for the iPad Pro 11" 2020 before I give my wife my iPad Pro 10.5", I just went out and bought her a 32 GB iPad 7th gen since it will be fine for her, and can use the Apple Smart Keyboard. But the reason I bought it is because it was only CAD$349, or US$265 at Costco.ca, with an extra year warranty from my credit card. It was even cheaper last month, at about US$250. I could have even gotten a cellular version for about US$299 but didn't bother since we don't have much need for a cellular iPad and it's through our carrier so I'd lose the extended warranty from the credit card. Also, tethering in iPadOS 13.3 seems to work better than before, although, hotspot auto-join isn't perfect yet.
I'm almost tempted to just wait until summer 2020 to make use of the back to school sale before buying the 2020 iPad Pro. But I probably will be too tempted and won't wait, since I prefer AirPods over Beats headphones anyway.
And I may keep both Pros. One for general use and one for the office. Or else I'll give her the 10.5" Pro and keep the 7th gen non-Pro at my office.
I'm almost tempted to just wait until summer 2020 to make use of the back to school sale before buying the 2020 iPad Pro. But I probably will be too tempted and won't wait, since I prefer AirPods over Beats headphones anyway.
And I may keep both Pros. One for general use and one for the office. Or else I'll give her the 10.5" Pro and keep the 7th gen non-Pro at my office.
Personally I suspect a fall 2020 release with iPad Pro, so they can use A14X and possibly add 5G. There’s no pressing need for a release, and there’s apparently no A13X. So I think you did the right thing. At US$265 it’s a steal. Even if you just sold it next year whenever iPP is released, you could get $200 easy I would think.So I caved. Instead of waiting for the iPad Pro 11" 2020 before I give my wife my iPad Pro 10.5", I just went out and bought her a 32 GB iPad 7th gen since it will be fine for her, and can use the Apple Smart Keyboard. But the reason I bought it is because it was only CAD$349, or US$265 at Costco.ca, with an extra year warranty from my credit card. It was even cheaper last month, at about US$250. I could have even gotten a cellular version for about US$299 but didn't bother since we don't have much need for a cellular iPad and it's through our carrier so I'd lose the extended warranty from the credit card. Also, tethering in iPadOS 13.3 seems to work better than before, although, hotspot auto-join isn't perfect yet.
I'm almost tempted to just wait until summer 2020 to make use of the back to school sale before buying the 2020 iPad Pro. But I probably will be too tempted and won't wait, since I prefer AirPods over Beats headphones anyway.
And I may keep both Pros. One for general use and one for the office. Or else I'll give her the 10.5" Pro and keep the 7th gen non-Pro at my office.
PS How do you like the display? To me that’s the only significant compromise (I assume the A10/3GB is pretty quick).
I'm still thinking late winter / early spring for the iPad Pro 2020 update.
Haven't received it yet, and it's an Xmas present for the wife anyway, so I won't really know until next week. It will be interesting going back from laminated screens though, since I currently have an iPad Pro and the kids both have the iPad Air 2. However, I'm pretty sure my wife won't care about the non-laminated screen.
A10 is OK on my iPhone 7 Plus but the A10X on my iPad Pro can occasionally be noticeably quicker. I did notice app/tab reloads on the Air 2, with its 2 GB RAM. 3 GB on my iPhone 7 Plus is noticeably better, as is 4 GB on my iPad Pro. That said, I likely won't get an iPad Pro until it gets 6 GB RAM, just because.
I was thinking again about spending the extra money to get the cellular variant of the iPad 7, since it wouldn't be much more money, but it just doesn't seem like a great idea to "invest" in such a feature for such a low end machine, esp. my expectation is that the wife will only very rarely use it, and can tether anyway from her phone if necessary. That said, it's only $40 more up front for the cellular version. Hmm... However, getting a 32 GB cellular version seems like a waste, and I'm not keen on jumping to the 128 GB version either since she won't use all that storage. BTW, for the kids' 64 GB iPad Air 2s, they have well over 50 GB storage left. The only times they use more is when I load up Netflix shows, but even then 32 GB would. have been fine (but at the time there was no 32 GB option).
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Gotcha on all counts. re: cellular do you have inexpensive pay as you go plans so you wouldn’t have a monthly bill? If so I’d consider the cellular as well.
Finally! I'm glad you we ahead and made up your mind. I believe, I told you to do something like this before... but that's old news.. lol. I know we go back and forth, but it's all in good faith.
Ahhhh, nah. I don't think Apple plans to wait that long for a fall 2020 release... that would be way overdue. However you do make a good point by adding 5G, but I have a feeling that would reserve that for a iPhone release first. Not sure why you mentions there's no A13X? I believe that's the plan for the upcoming iPad Pro... perhaps an upgrade on the RAM and I'm hoping a better display.
Obviously with the iPad Pro prototypes floating around... a dual camera.
Well, it wouldn’t be that overdue. For those who would upgrade, is A12X to A13X, with no 5G, a decent upgrade? What display upgrade are you anticipating? [edit: oh yes, miniLED!] Also, I thought the rumor was the triple-cam like 11 Pro but maybe I haven’t been paying attention lol.
I just don’t see a compelling reason for Apple to refresh in March/April instead of fall. Those who bought the 2018 model, what would an A13X allow them to do that they can’t do now? Who’s pushing the capabilities of the 2018? It’s still a beast!
It costs tens of millions to create a “X” variant; I fully expect them to skip A13X like they did A11X. I just don’t think it’s a big enough improvement to drive upgrades from the 2018. Those coming from prior generations can wait an additional 6 months lol. Well that’s my 2¢ anyway I may very well be wrong
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As mentioned before, the main target market of a new model generally isn't the group of customers that bought the last model.Well, it wouldn’t be that overdue. For those who would upgrade, is A12X to A13X, with no 5G, a decent upgrade? What display upgrade are you anticipating? Also, I thought the rumor was the triple-cam like 11 Pro but maybe I haven’t been paying attention lol.
I just don’t see a compelling reason for Apple to refresh in March/April instead of fall. Those who bought the 2018 model, what would an A13X allow them to do that they can’t do now? Who’s pushing the capabilities of the 2018? It’s still a beast!
It costs tens of millions to create a “X” variant; I fully expect them to skip A13X like they did A11X. I just don’t think it’s a big enough improvement to drive upgrades from the 2018. Those coming from prior generations can wait an additional 6 months lol. Well that’s my 2¢ anyway I may very well be wrong
For example, the average iPhone owner keeps his/her iPhone for about 3-4 years. That's average, not longest. Given Apple's prowess with creating A chips, and the usual upgrade cycle time, using your logic, Apple should only update the iPhone hardware every 2 years or so.
It's monthly cellular data, at CAD$10 per month for 4 GB, which works out to about US$7.62 per month. I ended up ordering the LTE model iPad 7 for the wife in the end, one of the reasons being I can cancel the data plan after a few months if I wish without penalty if we find we are not using it.
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No, that’s not my logic. My logic was that it’s not enough of a upgrade to warrant an X upgrade in consecutive years anymore. Despite Apple’s amazing prowess in chip design, the NRE of fabbing a new chip is decoupled from that, and has very large costs. I described them as tens of millions but it might be hundreds of millions at 7nm. I’ve seen the one-time costs of bringing a 7nm chip to production estimated at a billion dollars. At each node shrink, the costs go up precipitously.
Since Apple makes maybe a couple hundred million Ax chips for iPhone (and non-pro iPad) per generation, the cost is pretty easily amortized. But ”X” variants probably sell an order of magnitude fewer. There’s a reason Apple skipped A11X.
2nd gen iPad is A10X, 3rd gen iPad is A12X and with increasingly less improvement year over year, I don’t see why Apple would suddenly put their foot on the accelerator. Sure they could do an A13X and then use A15X in late 2021, but if they’re going to wait until March, why not just wait until fall and use A14X?
As the rate of improvement year over year starts to flatten out, I think iPad Pro, at its single-digit millions per year unit sales, could easily stretch to a 24 month refresh cycle. Some will buy on-cycle, some will buy off-cycle, but I think slipping from 16 to 24 months may well be in the cards for iPad Pro updates. (Like iMac and most non-MBP Macs, the number of iPad Pro Apple sells wouldn’t seem to require anything more frequent than every other year).
Just my 2¢. I’ve thought about it a lot, but I could very well be wrong. Feel free to poke holes in my logic!
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Not microLED, that is still years away even for a small panel like the Watch. But you probably mean miniLED, and that reminds me that Kuo did predict iPad Pro would get miniLED backlight tech (the panel itself is still LCD).
A couple posts ago I asked @Ludatyk “what display upgrade are you anticipating” and that must be what he was referring to
Kuo’s forecast was 4Q2020 so that aligns with a November time frame, and strongly implies A14X.
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You could have asked the same question about A10X. Why not wait until fall and use A11X? A10X came out in June, 9 months after A10.
Anyways, these chips are developed in parallel. A13 and A13X would have been developed at the same time. The CPU cores would be essentially the same. I suspect the bigger differences would come in other aspects of the chip design.
Why didn’t they wait until fall 2017 to release the 2nd gen iPad? I can think of a few reasons off the top of my head:
1) They already knew they had the 3rd gen with Liquid Retina, FaceID, Pencil 2 and USB-C delivering in November 2018, with an A12X that had already been in development for over two years. 2) Most particularly, though, what would be the point of waiting until Nov. 2017? The A10X would just be five months older at that point; there was no A11X to wait for. They knew that for years, since they had begun development on the A10X in 2013 and the A11 in 2014.
Edit: Ming Chi Kuo actually had an update a couple weeks ago. In Sept he was saying 4Q2020 or 1Q2021 and miniLED for iMac Pro; on December 2 he updated that to 3Q202, miniLED and A14X. Make of that what you will...
Kuo: 12.9-Inch iPad Pro and 16-Inch MacBook Pro With Mini-LED Displays to Launch in Second Half of 2020
Apple is planning four to six products with mini-LED displays over the next two to three years, including a high-end 12.9-inch iPad Pro with an A14X...
www.macrumors.com
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Exactly, the plans are there for years. It's a matter of execution. If they can release when they want, then great, they do. If they need to delay or alter their plans, then they do that too.
The question is whether or not A13X exists, or if it is truly A14X only, but we can't assume either way, since we have had several conflicting rumours.
If that's truly the case, I'm prepared for that too, and the mini-LED and option for 5G would be a bonus too.
In any case, I'm returning the 32 GB iPad 7 WiFi I just bought for the wife. Instead, I ordered the 128 GB iPad 7 LTE for her, for CAD$479 (US$364) from my carrier. I had to also add a monthly CAD$10 (US$7.60) 4 GB data plan, but there is no contract so I can cancel at any time. I originally pulled the trigger on this partially because the agent added a $10 credit to the plan making the plan $0, but their head office rescinded that credit offer.
However, they gave us an extra 3 GB data for a few months for both our cell phone lines as a consolation prize, increasing our 15 GB plans to 18 GB, leaving us extra cushion for tethering if desired.In addition, I just ordered an Apple Smart Keyboard off Amazon for CAD$110 (US$84). It's supposedly "Like New" so hopefully it's in pristine condition.
The wife should be happy with this A10 128 GB / 3 GB 10.2" iPad 7 + Apple Smart Keyboard + LTE for many years to come. As for me, if I were to get an A14X 128 GB / 6 GB entry level* 11" iPad Pro + Apple Smart Keyboard Folio +/- 5G in fall, that would also last me for many years to come. BTW, that would make my 2017 iPad Pro refurb purchase in March 2019 smarter than perhaps I originally thought.
* I am hoping the next iPad Pros will start at 128 GB storage and 6 GB RAM. I'm pretty sure about the 6 GB, but not so sure about the 128 GB.
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Nice. Got the iPad 7th gen 128 GB and the Smart Keyboard the same day. The Smart Keyboard looks almost new, but upon close inspection there are subtle changes that indicate it's used. However, it's clean and works perfectly. Also, while the original box has all the right pieces and wrapping inside, the outside of the box is a little scratched up.In any case, I'm returning the 32 GB iPad 7 WiFi I just bought for the wife. Instead, I ordered the 128 GB iPad 7 LTE for her, for CAD$479 (US$364) from my carrier. I had to also add a monthly CAD$10 (US$7.60) 4 GB data plan, but there is no contract so I can cancel at any time. I originally pulled the trigger on this partially because the agent added a $10 credit to the plan making the plan $0, but their head office rescinded that credit offer.
In addition, I just ordered an Apple Smart Keyboard off Amazon for CAD$110 (US$84). It's supposedly "Like New" so hopefully it's in pristine condition.
For half price though for an authentic Apple Smart Keyboard, I'm pleased.
Usually pixel and dpi are interchangeable. How can a single pixel be 30 dots? Dots of what?
Are you by chance referring to some sort of subpixel?
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Which Canadian carrier do you use that offers 4 GB tablet plan for 10$CAN? Sounds like a good deal!
Fido. The caveat is that it is technically only supposed to be available to existing Fido customers, as a second line.
Fido offering customers 4GB for $10 per month tablet plan
Fido is offering a tablet plan with 4GB for $10 per month, which is an extra 1GB above its regular 3GB for $10 per month plan.
mobilesyrup.com
The even better part though is they are selling the LTE iPad for $240 off, so it ends up being cheaper than regular pricing for the regular WiFi iPad. If you decide to keep the data plan for two years ($10 x 24 months = $240), then it becomes the same price as what Apple sells the LTE iPad for, but you've had two years of data included. However, there is no contract, so you can cancel the data plan at any time.
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30 dots per inch=30 pixels per inch. I really should have just written 30 ppi. Pixel pitch is 0.84mm, subpixel pitch 0.28mm.
http://xqdoc.imedao.com/16184d36f5150de13fd3f231.pdf (page 49)
Here’s a picture of the actual pixel/subpixel arrangement.
A Closer Look at Samsung's The Wall MicroLED TV System
Samsung's The Wall is a big TV—up to 292 inches! Our TV expert visited the company's headquarters in South Korea to see what it looks like up close.