El Capitan's user ratings even worse than Yosemite.

[navaira]

I fully expected growing pains. I didn't foresee having to search the Web for 'tricks' to reveal basic functions.

I've seen people here arguing it's GOOD that you can't find functions without googling and going through forums, even though often it means you have no clue if they exist or not, because if you could find them you'd use them and you could hurt yourself.

Which strikes me as a very specific form of Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[997440]

I've seen people here arguing it's GOOD that you can't find functions without googling and going through forums, even though often it means you have no clue if they exist or not, because if you could find them you'd use them and you could hurt yourself....

That viewpoint might have some validity. I know of many Windows people who desire or require the use of computers but are terrified of them, and/or use them without responsible forethought, that end up bollixing them up. If Apple's intention (however it's implemented) is to prevent that, it'd be a good idea for them to make available advanced-user documentation. Maybe it is but I've not found it yet.

In the meantime, I'll build a store of reliable informational sites. So far, so good. For me, Apple's help-file system is good but incomplete.

 

[KALLT]

I've seen people here arguing it's GOOD that you can't find functions without googling and going through forums, even though often it means you have no clue if they exist or not, because if you could find them you'd use them and you could hurt yourself.

Which strikes me as a very specific form of Stockholm Syndrome.

What strikes me more is the dismissive tone of some people here. It creates a really unpleasant atmosphere for discussing viewpoints.

When you have no clue that a function exists then maybe you don't have a reason to use it in the first place. Designing user interfaces is a balancing act between appeasing common users and advanced users. There isn't a right or wrong way, it's a matter of favouring one side over the other. Apple has consistently chosen the former. In spite of this, advanced functions are exposed in some places and are always available with a Terminal window.

Hiding the user library makes sense when you target a specific group of users, just has hiding the /bin and /var directories makes sense. These aren't directories users should have to access on regular basis, if at all. When you are using OS X for a while and have a need for accessing more advanced functions, you will know that Apple has several 'layers' of interaction: (1) GUI, (2) GUI with hidden menus that are exposed by pressing the one or several keys (e.g. option key) and (3) CLI. Admittedly, Apple has not always been consistent and there are some cases where they unnecessarily hide options that no-one would expect to be there. But the principle is still applied.

Advanced users should expect by now that Apple gives alternative functions when you press the option key. When I know that I want to do something and I can't find it immediately, I do three things. Let's assume that I want to access the user library: (1) I know that it must be there, so I check the Finder menu while keeping the option key pressed. The Go menu now reveals the user library to me. (2) I use the built-in Help menu and type in 'library': it shows me that there is a menu there. This function is só under-appreciated. (3) I search the web for guidance. I'm a pretty advanced user and I don't know where everything is located either. But OS X has built-in tools to help me find them. I almost always have a Terminal window open too, so I can get right to it without dealing with the GUI.

I like how this works and it keeps the UI clean and focussed. I know a lot of people who like the Mac precisely because of this. Moreover, Windows and many Linux desktop environments are following the same idea. GNOME 3 and Windows 10 are not materially different from this, but you should compare them to their predecessors.

 

[navaira]

What strikes me more is the dismissive tone of some people here. It creates a really unpleasant atmosphere for discussing viewpoints.

When you have no clue that a function exists then maybe you don't have a reason to use it in the first place. *snip*

Pot, meet kettle.

In my case the function that I had no reason to use was called "screen calibration" and I would have no clue why the hell my Macbook Air screen looks so washed out had I not read on this forum months ago that you can press option when clicking Calibrate and that switches on Expert options. Expert options being three coloured bars with apples in them.

I search the web for guidance. I'm a pretty advanced user and I don't know where everything is located either. But OS X has built-in tools to help me find them.

I don't know if I would call "searching the web for guidance" a built-in tool of OS X.

Advanced users should expect by now that Apple gives alternative functions when you press the option key.

I'll be back in a few days when I finished clicking absolutely everything in my system while holding the option key.

Sorry. I am not trying to sound unpleasant, honestly. I just can't understand how anyone can defend the fact that options are purposefully hidden from users – and I do not mean options such as "format your main hard drive" but "calibrate your screen as well as you can do it without specialised equipment" – and say that "when you don't know an option exist you don't have a reason to use it". It's like going to a supermarket where everything comes in plain white packaging. If you don't know which one tuna is, maybe you had no reason to buy tuna in the first place.

 

[KALLT]

Pot, meet kettle.

Not at all, you misunderstood this. The sentence reflects the gist of my post: advanced functions are hidden, because many people don't need to use them. Advanced users who know or presume that they exist can typically find them by using the three methods I described. OS X just expects a level of prudence from advanced users or at least the will to find advanced functions.

In my case the function that I had no reason to use was called "screen calibration" and I would have no clue why the hell my Macbook Air screen looks so washed out had I not read on this forum months ago that you can press option when clicking Calibrate and that switches on Expert options. Expert options being three coloured bars with apples in them.

This falls under: "Admittedly, Apple has not always been consistent and there are some cases where they unnecessarily hide options that no-one would expect to be there. But the principle is still applied." I actually criticised this exact point too not so long ago. It's bad design to hide such functionality under a button when the window that follows also asks you whether you want to use 'advanced' options. Screen calibration now has: standard, advanced and hidden 'super-advanced' options. This is downright confusing design and I agree with you here.

I don't know if I would call "searching the web for guidance" a built-in tool of OS X.

I never said that it was. I merely mentioned it among the available options for finding advanced functions. Searching the web is the modern equivalent of a manual. Sometimes, you just need to use the manual.

I'll be back in a few days when I finished clicking absolutely everything in my system while holding the option key.

Sorry. I am not trying to sound unpleasant, honestly. I just can't understand how anyone can defend the fact that options are purposefully hidden from users – and I do not mean options such as "format your main hard drive" but "calibrate your screen as well as you can do it without specialised equipment" – and say that "when you don't know an option exist you don't have a reason to use it". It's like going to a supermarket where everything comes in plain white packaging. If you don't know which one tuna is, maybe you had no reason to buy tuna in the first place.

The unpleasantness follows from your absolutely uncalled for remark on Stockholm syndrome.

But can't you see the rationale behind hiding the user library either? Apple's reasoning becomes most clear in that context. Apple users rarely if ever need to access the user library or calibrate every tiny aspect of their screens. These are advanced options that often require further information to begin with. It means that your knowledge of the system is incomplete and requires further research. You know that you want to calibrate your screen, so you start searching to find out how it works. This is what makes advanced users advanced. Apple still has these options, but they are hidden from view for the benefit of the common user.

The screen calibration is one of those instances where Apple made things unnecessarily confusing, but the overall model of interaction with the OS X is still one I can agree with.

 

[desertman]

Advanced users should expect by now that Apple gives alternative functions when you press the option key.

Should I (as a 20+ years advanced user)? I don't. I know basically only two "option key alternative functions": 1) access to the user library, 2) access to the (seriously? this is for experts only?) "expert" screen calibration procedere.

Which other significant functions are available by pressing the option key?

You seem to know many of them - could you please share them with us?

 

[navaira]

I guess that my problem is actually that they are so wildly inconsistent. Yes, I agree that a "regular" user does not need to know how to disable SIP. I want to modify my dock and my Finder, and have to disable SIP to do so. A "regular" user would have no clue this is possible. Makes sense.

But then we get to the Disk Utility that can't format a USB stick with two full stops in its name. The calibration. The unmoving Time Machine icon that you can't change into previous format even when clicking option. And so on, the list is endless and has been regurgitated way too many times. Apple's decisions seem to fall into three boxes:

1. Completely sensible and justified
2. Um, I'm trying to see what you're doing here I guess?
3. WTF?

To follow on this: I've been using Macs since 1999, with a three-year break 2003-2006. I got to Yosemite 10.10.4 or so without ever having used a Mac forum (possibly it was 10.10.3, can't remember when I joined here). And it was here that I learned I can make my dock look 3D again and put folders on top. It was here that I learned I had to disable SIP to get some of those functionalities (but not all) back in El Capitan. I would definitely call myself an advanced user but if the functionalities are hidden THAT well, the only way I have to find out how everything works is helplessly type in random phrases into Google until I figure out.

Today I was trying to hide the Spotlight icon. I use a lot of utilities that put icons into status bar. Most of them have no business being in there. Some I can drag out. Some I can drag around. Some I can't do anything about. Some I can hide from Preferences. Some I can't. Below my perfect status bar.

I managed to accidentally kill Spotlight off completely going by forum advice. Then luckily I worked out how to undo it, because I'm smart enough to understand what permissions do. Icon persisted. Then I found out a program called Bartender exists and can help me with this. i can hide the battery icon. I can hide the Bluetooth icon. I can't hide the Spotlight icon without third party software. Why? Maybe there is a terminal command but I should have gone to page 5 in my Google results to find it? Do I have to press option somewhere? Where is the consistency in this? This is behaviour I would expect from Bodhi Linux, not OS X.

 

[KALLT]

Should I (as a 20+ years advanced user)? I don't.

You already do. You have at some point discovered or heard that pressing the option key while clicking on the Go menu shows you a link to the user library, likely in the context of a question that required you to access the library. You thus know that something like this exists. Whether you use it depends on your needs. Ask yourself this: is there anything you miss? This is the point of the option key: it gives you additional, advanced options in case you might need them, but they pretty much always arise because of an immediate need. For instance, you need to access the user library, you need to get advanced screen calibration options, you need to quit an application while closing all windows, you need to force-quit an application directly from the Dock. These are not typical operations, but in case you do need them, OS X has them for you and you can find them by blindly pressing the option key or using the Help menu. You rarely need to know of their existence unless you actually know that you need them.

I rarely use these hidden options, because the use cases are so niche. There is nothing wrong with exploring the menu by keeping the option key pressed and see what comes up. I did this immediately after I found out that something like this exists. The user library is not something the common user should have to know about. If you need to access it then you already have prior knowledge of its existence and are in position to find it yourself. Even the Help menu points you directly to it.

On opposite ends you find Windows with its countless menus and options (I don't even bother looking for stuff myself anymore, I almost always use search) and Linux/*BSD for which reading manuals and performing extensive web searches is almost unavoidable. Apple has a distinctive approach and I like it. However, Apple sometimes makes weird decisions and the new screen calibration menu is one of them.

But then we get to the Disk Utility that can't format a USB stick with two full stops in its name.

Disk Utility is a broken product, but with the right design idea. There were lots of things wrong with it, in my opinion, but they botched the release. It should have never been released in this state.

And it was here that I learned I can make my dock look 3D again and put folders on top. It was here that I learned I had to disable SIP to get some of those functionalities (but not all) back in El Capitan. I would definitely call myself an advanced user but if the functionalities are hidden THAT well, the only way I have to find out how everything works is helplessly type in random phrases into Google until I figure out.

To change these things you are messing with system applications, files and folders that 'belong' to Apple. The same rationale applies: OS X does not ask or encourage you to make these changes, in fact, changing the look of the Dock or hijacking Finder is discouraged. If you are interested in changing these things, with or without third-party software, then you need to do some research or ask the people who made the third-party software in the first place. SIP itself is a documented feature that you can easily find in Apple's manuals and turn off. It's the same idea: enabled by default for common users (because that is where it will be the most beneficial), but can be disabled by advanced users who need to modify aspects of the system and are expected to do a bit of research to discover that a new security policy must be disabled. This is particularly the case when you use third-party software, because they should tell you how their product works.

I managed to accidentally kill Spotlight off completely going by forum advice. Then luckily I worked out how to undo it, because I'm smart enough to understand what permissions do. Icon persisted. Then I found out a program called Bartender exists and can help me with this. i can hide the battery icon. I can hide the Bluetooth icon. I can't hide the Spotlight icon without third party software. Why? Maybe there is a terminal command but I should have gone to page 5 in my Google results to find it? Do I have to press option somewhere? Where is the consistency in this? This is behaviour I would expect from Bodhi Linux, not OS X.

I don't know why they don't make it possible to hide some menubar icons, but it isn't possible at all to remove them, not undocumented either. You can only kill Spotlight and Notification Center to do so. Sometimes the system has insurmountable constraints, but that has nothing to do with advanced features. By design, the Spotlight icon cannot be disabled. Only with tweaks and workarounds that are by definition advanced use cases. There is some consistency in this: all menubar icons can be hidden by unchecking the relevant option in System Preferences. Only Spotlight and Notification Center do not have this option, so the GUI makes it clear in that sense that they are not meant to be hidden.

 

[xmichaelp]

I don't pay attention to the whiny babies in the app store. El Capitan is fantastic.

 

[whodatrr]

Today, and for the past month and change, El-Cap is awesome!

However, for the first few weeks it was in the wild, El-Cap was a steaming pile of turds. yes, I was the one who was stupid enough to install it on two of my production systems. Subsequently, it rendered both of those systems pretty much useless as I had the audacity to try to use exotic programs like MS Office.

So, you can shove your "whiney babies" comment wherever you want. There can be no debate in my mind that v 1.0 of El Cap was a heaping pile of dung, that should not have ben let loose on those of us who actually thought Apple understood quality assurance. That release cost me several days of productivity. and a "whiney baby" I am not. I just have an aversion to crap.

Please understand that the .0 release of El-Cap made many of our systems unusable. In my case, I spent a couple weeks familiarizing myself with my previously-unsused SP3, which had an impact on my compute roadmap. So, throwing out terms like "whiney babies" is.... well, I'll bite my tongue.

Open MS word, system crashes in 5-10 mins. Open Outlook, system crashes in 5mins. Open PPT and the system hangs or 20 mins, losing any work you had done, that was my initial El-Cap experience.

So please understand that many of us who had bad experiences with this upgrade are not babies, but people who are feeding our kids with our Macs. So, when these tools become unusable, we're naturally upset.

Again, the current release is fine. But the .0 release cost many of us a significant amount of productivity, because we foolishly trusted Apple. And that's why so many are upset about the way that this release went down. El-Cap 1.0 was not ready for prime time, and should have been considered a beta.

I don't pay attention to the whiny babies in the app store. El Capitan is fantastic.

 

[Paulk]

Like most of the comments in this thread I agree: all these beta releases are a great mistake. We had this debate when Yosemite came out. I have never tried to upgrade to a newer OS version until now, and greatly regret having done so. I have always kept the same OS as came with the Mac I bought.

Never again. Live and learn...

 

[Zirel]

Today, and for the past month and change, El-Cap is awesome!

However, for the first few weeks it was in the wild, El-Cap was a steaming pile of turds. yes, I was the one who was stupid enough to install it on two of my production systems. Subsequently, it rendered both of those systems pretty much useless as I had the audacity to try to use exotic programs like MS Office.

So, you can shove your "whiney babies" comment wherever you want. There can be no debate in my mind that v 1.0 of El Cap was a heaping pile of dung, that should not have ben let loose on those of us who actually thought Apple understood quality assurance. That release cost me several days of productivity. and a "whiney baby" I am not. I just have an aversion to crap.

Please understand that the .0 release of El-Cap made many of our systems unusable. In my case, I spent a couple weeks familiarizing myself with my previously-unsused SP3, which had an impact on my compute roadmap. So, throwing out terms like "whiney babies" is.... well, I'll bite my tongue.

Open MS word, system crashes in 5-10 mins. Open Outlook, system crashes in 5mins. Open PPT and the system hangs or 20 mins, losing any work you had done, that was my initial El-Cap experience.

So please understand that many of us who had bad experiences with this upgrade are not babies, but people who are feeding our kids with our Macs. So, when these tools become unusable, we're naturally upset.

Again, the current release is fine. But the .0 release cost many of us a significant amount of productivity, because we foolishly trusted Apple. And that's why so many are upset about the way that this release went down. El-Cap 1.0 was not ready for prime time, and should have been considered a beta.

I've been using el cap from the beginning and it has been great, Microsoft Office too, never experienced anything bad with that, probably because MS had a bug that made some of its users crash.

Now, why do you have to bring your Microsoft iPad to the discussion?

Am I being targeted for advertising?

 

[Queen6]

Today, and for the past month and change, El-Cap is awesome!

However, for the first few weeks it was in the wild, El-Cap was a steaming pile of turds. yes, I was the one who was stupid enough to install it on two of my production systems. Subsequently, it rendered both of those systems pretty much useless as I had the audacity to try to use exotic programs like MS Office.

So, you can shove your "whiney babies" comment wherever you want. There can be no debate in my mind that v 1.0 of El Cap was a heaping pile of dung, that should not have ben let loose on those of us who actually thought Apple understood quality assurance. That release cost me several days of productivity. and a "whiney baby" I am not. I just have an aversion to crap.

Please understand that the .0 release of El-Cap made many of our systems unusable. In my case, I spent a couple weeks familiarizing myself with my previously-unsused SP3, which had an impact on my compute roadmap. So, throwing out terms like "whiney babies" is.... well, I'll bite my tongue.

Open MS word, system crashes in 5-10 mins. Open Outlook, system crashes in 5mins. Open PPT and the system hangs or 20 mins, losing any work you had done, that was my initial El-Cap experience.

So please understand that many of us who had bad experiences with this upgrade are not babies, but people who are feeding our kids with our Macs. So, when these tools become unusable, we're naturally upset.

Again, the current release is fine. But the .0 release cost many of us a significant amount of productivity, because we foolishly trusted Apple. And that's why so many are upset about the way that this release went down. El-Cap 1.0 was not ready for prime time, and should have been considered a beta.

Well put and unfortunately some of us are still experiencing issues that break our workflow, that even Apple is currently not able to adequately explain or remedy. Absolutely agree the for those that rely on their hardware for a living stability & reliability is paramount. Sadly Apple`s current 12 month update cycle for OS X in now rather flying in the face of this, nor does Apple`s QC give great conference currently.

I am hoping that Apple can resolve on 10.11.2 if not I will pass on 10.11 it`s simply too time consuming applying multiple clean installs only to have the same or new issues. All this also makes me question OS X as being viable for my needs, as I don't need or want this rapid update cycle and for the most part it adds little value to my productivity, if anything as 10.11 has illustrated it can be a serious detriment.

Personally I expect far more, Apple Core applications such as Mail, Calendar, Preview, Wi-Fi, should be working from day one of release not still a work in progress, given Apple has full control of both hardware and software, and uses the same as bragging point. If Apple had to deal with the hardware footprint that Microsoft does I would be more forgiving.

Q-6

 

[navaira]

Personally I expect far more, Apple Core applications such as Mail, Calendar, Preview, Wi-Fi, should be working from day one of release not still a work in progress, given Apple has full control of both hardware and software, and uses the same as bragging point. If Apple had to deal with the hardware footprint that Microsoft does I would be more forgiving.

There really is nothing I could disagree with in your post but this really drives the point home. I can JUST about forgive Cubase or Office not working. But if Apple's own applications don't work...? How low should our expectations be by now? (While we're at it, Apple Music is not part of El Capitan but it is also a glaring example of Apple's QC in 2015.)

I am still firmly in the "never going back to Windows" camp, but at some point the pain is going to get too strong.

 

[whodatrr]

Yep, I think my policy moving-forward will be to wait for at least a .2 rev, before installing.

But the way the El-Cap was rolled out was a real eye-opener, for me. Maybe it is the 12 month train? And yes, I certainly hold some of the blame for upgrading two of my production systems, simultaneously. However, when I see people throw out phrases like "whiney babies" to describe what went down, it really angers me. This release held my two main work systems captive, rendering them pretty much unusable, for a couple weeks. the only saving grace was the fact that I had a Windows system to fall back on.

.2 or greater, moving forward. No incremental feature improvements are worth the hassles that the .0 build of El-Cap introduced to my work.

Well put and unfortunately some of us are still experiencing issues that break our workflow, that even Apple is currently not able to adequately explain or remedy. Absolutely agree the for those that rely on their hardware for a living stability & reliability is paramount. Sadly Apple`s current 12 month update cycle for OS X in now rather flying in the face of this, nor does Apple`s QC give great conference currently.

I am hoping that Apple can resolve on 10.11.2 if not I will pass on 10.11 it`s simply too time consuming applying multiple clean installs only to have the same or new issues. All this also makes me question OS X as being viable for my needs, as I don't need or want this rapid update cycle and for the most part it adds little value to my productivity, if anything as 10.11 has illustrated it can be a serious detriment.

Personally I expect far more, Apple Core applications such as Mail, Calendar, Preview, Wi-Fi, should be working from day one of release not still a work in progress, given Apple has full control of both hardware and software, and uses the same as bragging point. If Apple had to deal with the hardware footprint that Microsoft does I would be more forgiving.

Q-6

 

[whodatrr]

I also was in the "never going back to Windows" camp, prior to this debacle. I'm not saying that Apple's QC issues pushed me over the edge, but they did force me to work with Windows as my primary driver, for a couple of weeks, because my production Mac Systems were useless. And guess what, it wasn't that bad.

Fast-forward a few more weeks, and I've replaced my SP3 with a new XPS 13. the SP3 was great, but the XPS 13 just feels like a more serious work system, at least for me. And I diverted funds that I had allocated for a new iMac or nMP to a new PC desktop that I just got a couple days ago. It felt pretty good buying three SSDs and popping them in there, along with the ability to pick the GPUs I wanted. I now have a cutting-edge specs 6-core behemoth with several SSDs and a pair of GTX 980s in SLI that cost me less than a upper-range 5k iMac, including the refurb 4k display I bought with it. yeah, it was a refurbished system with a Black Friday coupon, but I'm loving the power and flexibility.

Time will tell whether or not I successfully migrate to the dark side? But El-Cap .0 prompted me to spend a bit of time with the Windows devil I'd been fearing for so long, only to find out he wasn't half-bad. I plan to spend some downtime over the holidays investigating migrating much of Apple's ecosystem, and getting my systems tweaked to where I can start the new year working with them as primary drivers.

There really is nothing I could disagree with in your post but this really drives the point home. I can JUST about forgive Cubase or Office not working. But if Apple's own applications don't work...? How low should our expectations be by now? (While we're at it, Apple Music is not part of El Capitan but it is also a glaring example of Apple's QC in 2015.)

I am still firmly in the "never going back to Windows" camp, but at some point the pain is going to get too strong.

 

[djanni]

I found this thread while searching the interwebs in frustration. In my 15 years of using Mac's I've never had so many glitches since installing El Capitan. Of course all my existing programs turned pretty unresponsive, but this can be said it isn't Mac's problem (Creative Suite CS5). So I upgraded to CC, still issues with those.

I'm on a 27" iMac - 3.6 GHz Intel Core i5 - 8 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
OS specific update problems:

• I need to hold power button down to simply shut the computer down. It gets stuck at the black screen with the 1-color spinning wheel. I've tried many different ways of shutting down, all result in the same stalling screen. Of course when I force close with the power button I then have problems when turning on again. Suitcase Fusion 6 seems to lose it's list of activated fonts, which then takes a 1/2 hour to index or whatever it does all over again.

• Finder is a frustration. Search within finder is sketchy and have to use little tricks to get it to search. If I'm searching I can type out the entire word (file name) and nothing will come up, but if I delete one letter and type it again then I will get results (sometimes). Also finder doesn't seem to remember the location I had scrolled to when using column flow. So If I have a folder of 300 images with other folders, I click to the next folder and then need to go back, I need to scroll around and find that folder again. It used to remember the location the previous folder (view) was at.

• SPINNING WHEEL ALL THE TIME for doing any little change!!!!!

• This computer is at a business (I do design work) and every night now it drops the server connection. It never did this before, and others on Yosemite don't have this problem.

• Many of my programs that are supposed to work with El Capitan must be forced closed. When I chose to close any Adobe CC programs they crash or must be force-closed. MS Office has this problem, this has even happened to Chrome. Again, not happening on co-workers with Yosemite.

• Sidebar folders disappear. I needed to add these over and over again and finally gave up. Found a solution online to create aliases in a document folder and then drag those aliases into the sidebar and now they stay. But should I have to do such a thing? Draging folders to the sidebar should keep them there. Maybe this has to do with the Mac now dropping the server? But still the folders should remain in the sidebar.

Thats all I can remember off the top of my head but I know there were more

 

[Queen6]

I also was in the "never going back to Windows" camp, prior to this debacle. I'm not saying that Apple's QC issues pushed me over the edge, but they did force me to work with Windows as my primary driver, for a couple of weeks, because my production Mac Systems were useless. And guess what, it wasn't that bad.

Fast-forward a few more weeks, and I've replaced my SP3 with a new XPS 13. the SP3 was great, but the XPS 13 just feels like a more serious work system, at least for me. And I diverted funds that I had allocated for a new iMac or nMP to a new PC desktop that I just got a couple days ago. It felt pretty good buying three SSDs and popping them in there, along with the ability to pick the GPUs I wanted. I now have a cutting-edge specs 6-core behemoth with several SSDs and a pair of GTX 980s in SLI that cost me less than a upper-range 5k iMac, including the refurb 4k display I bought with it. yeah, it was a refurbished system with a Black Friday coupon, but I'm loving the power and flexibility.

Time will tell whether or not I successfully migrate to the dark side? But El-Cap .0 prompted me to spend a bit of time with the Windows devil I'd been fearing for so long, only to find out he wasn't half-bad. I plan to spend some downtime over the holidays investigating migrating much of Apple's ecosystem, and getting my systems tweaked to where I can start the new year working with them as primary drivers.

I am slowly coming to the same conclusions, and for the first time in well over a decade considering seriously a Windows based system as one of my primary computers. It due a combination of Apple`s poor software QC and OS X being treated more like a mobile OS, and Apple ever more attempting to lock the user into their ecosystem.

Since Windows 7 SP3 I have personally had little if any issue with Windows, therefore I have few if any issues using Microsoft`s platform. I find that if one sets up the system carefully (clean install) and don't tinker with the system reliability and stability are not an issue.

I rather fear that OS X is becoming a vehicle for social media and entertainment platform, rather than a solid workhorse, it would appear that others also share these concerns and more...

http://www.marco.org/2015/01/04/apple-lost-functional-high-ground
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/mac-experts-weigh-in-os-x-quality-is-declining
http://macperformanceguide.com/AppleCoreRot-intro.html

Q-6

 

[SanJacinto]

I like how this works and it keeps the UI clean and focussed. I know a lot of people who like the Mac precisely because of this. Moreover, Windows and many Linux desktop environments are following the same idea. GNOME 3 and Windows 10 are not materially different from this, but you should compare them to their predecessors.

View attachment 604107

In your screenshot, which version of OS X is it?

At the moment I do use Yosemite and I am quite satisfied - having a 200 days uptime and no lags.

But, I do not like the UI and when I will get my SSD in December I plan to downgrade to Snow Leopard or Mavericks

 

[djanni]

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/mac-experts-weigh-in-os-x-quality-is-declining

Good article. It feels this way:

"Apple now names OS X versions after famous California landmarks. Mr. Tanous suggested that the next version could well be "OS X Death Valley." Take this with good humor. It's a gentlemanly barb designed as a wakeup call to Apple engineers."

 

[Queen6]

I found this thread while searching the interwebs in frustration. In my 15 years of using Mac's I've never had so many glitches since installing El Capitan. Of course all my existing programs turned pretty unresponsive, but this can be said it isn't Mac's problem (Creative Suite CS5). So I upgraded to CC, still issues with those.

I'm on a 27" iMac - 3.6 GHz Intel Core i5 - 8 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
OS specific update problems:

• I need to hold power button down to simply shut the computer down. It gets stuck at the black screen with the 1-color spinning wheel. I've tried many different ways of shutting down, all result in the same stalling screen. Of course when I force close with the power button I then have problems when turning on again. Suitcase Fusion 6 seems to lose it's list of activated fonts, which then takes a 1/2 hour to index or whatever it does all over again.

• Finder is a frustration. Search within finder is sketchy and have to use little tricks to get it to search. If I'm searching I can type out the entire word (file name) and nothing will come up, but if I delete one letter and type it again then I will get results (sometimes). Also finder doesn't seem to remember the location I had scrolled to when using column flow. So If I have a folder of 300 images with other folders, I click to the next folder and then need to go back, I need to scroll around and find that folder again. It used to remember the location the previous folder (view) was at.

• SPINNING WHEEL ALL THE TIME for doing any little change!!!!!

• This computer is at a business (I do design work) and every night now it drops the server connection. It never did this before, and others on Yosemite don't have this problem.

• Many of my programs that are supposed to work with El Capitan must be forced closed. When I chose to close any Adobe CC programs they crash or must be force-closed. MS Office has this problem, this has even happened to Chrome. Again, not happening on co-workers with Yosemite.

• Sidebar folders disappear. I needed to add these over and over again and finally gave up. Found a solution online to create aliases in a document folder and then drag those aliases into the sidebar and now they stay. But should I have to do such a thing? Draging folders to the sidebar should keep them there. Maybe this has to do with the Mac now dropping the server? But still the folders should remain in the sidebar.

Thats all I can remember off the top of my head but I know there were more

I reverted back to 10.10.5 as it was the only viable solution for me. I am now very reluctant to try 10.11 as I found that the system tended to degrade over time with more and more issues occurring, with the point release rectifying some problems and creating others. My gut feeling now it that 10.11 has so many issues that it`s unlikely Apple will resolve all before they unleash 10.12 which may or may not bring further issues.

OS X is starting to look like the Windows of the past with endless applications tacked on, that you are not able to easily remove, never has OS X been so bloated. A fast SSD is now almost mandatory to run the OS smoothly, on the other side Microsoft have Windows 8 & 10 running smoothy on even very low level hardware.

Q-6

Good article. It feels this way:

"Apple now names OS X versions after famous California landmarks. Mr. Tanous suggested that the next version could well be "OS X Death Valley." Take this with good humor. It's a gentlemanly barb designed as a wakeup call to Apple engineers."

Sadly there are many more similar articles. Personally I am far from being against OS X, equally I am disappointed in the direction Apple is taking the OS which is ever more biased towards casual use...

Q-6

 

[KALLT]

In your screenshot, which version of OS X is it?

At the moment I do use Yosemite and I am quite satisfied - having a 200 days uptime and no lags.

But, I do not like the UI and when I will get my SSD in December I plan to downgrade to Snow Leopard or Mavericks

It's Mavericks, the last 'old' release that still gains security updates (and Safari 9 and iTunes 12). My Mac is fairly old (2008) and just needlessly suffers under the eye-candy of Yosemite. El Capitan made things a little better, but not by much. Mavericks is not only more stable, but also more satisfactory, plus, the style just immediately appealed to me again when I went back, even after more than a year of Yosemite. Whenever I go back to El Capitan, I feel like someone pulls a veil over my head, because the interface is just distinctly fuzzy with the reduced contrast and smaller and thinner fonts. There is this unpleasantness to it, it's difficult to describe, even though I have perfect eyesight and am in my 20s. I have actually taken a liking to Linux and FreeBSD with the GNOME 3 desktop environment, which reminds me a bit of the previous OS X style, but with sensible design improvements and a proper dark mode, it's really good.

 

[F1Mac]

It's Mavericks, the last 'old' release that still gains security updates (and Safari 9 and iTunes 12). My Mac is fairly old (2008) and just needlessly suffers under the eye-candy of Yosemite. El Capitan made things a little better, but not by much. Mavericks is not only more stable, but also more satisfactory, plus, the style just immediately appealed to me again when I went back, even after more than a year of Yosemite. Whenever I go back to El Capitan, I feel like someone pulls a veil over my head, because the interface is just distinctly fuzzy with the reduced contrast and smaller and thinner fonts. There is this unpleasantness to it, it's difficult to describe, even though I have perfect eyesight and am in my 20s. I have actually taken a liking to Linux and FreeBSD with the GNOME 3 desktop environment, which reminds me a bit of the previous OS X style, but with sensible design improvements and a proper dark mode, it's really good.

If only there was a way to make Messages in Mavericks look like iOS 7+, instead of those ugly, and dare I say, outdated bubbles...

 

[KALLT]

If only there was a way to make Messages in Mavericks look like iOS 7+, instead of those ugly, and dare I say, outdated bubbles...

Well, I like them.

You know, I was using my iPhone 4 with iOS 6 the other day and this entire phone has such a different feel to it, beginning with the keyboard when you set up your phone. It just feels more 'tangible' for some reason. It isn't just nostalgia, but something else. Like I'm really controlling it.

 

[F1Mac]

Well, I like them.

You know, I was using my iPhone 4 with iOS 6 the other day and this entire phone has such a different feel to it, beginning with the keyboard when you set up your phone. It just feels more 'tangible' for some reason. It isn't just nostalgia, but something else. Like I'm really controlling it.

I've been considering the idea of going back to Mavericks for a while - but I don't know. Like you said, it just feels right. While I don't have any issue with 10.11, it's stable and feels fast, I know Mavericks is still a more effective option for my old, and yet strong, MacPro 1,1. As our phones have become an important part of our "computing" experience, I like the fact that both OSes share same visual environment, but I still feel at home every time I have to boot on my Mavericks partition. I never tried it on my SSD, I don't know how it would behave compared to El Capitan regarding Finder operation and performance.